HomeMy WebLinkAboutSTEELE'S MARKET AT HARMONY MARKET PUD, 3RD FILING - FINAL - 54-87E - DECISION - MINUTES/NOTES (2) •
PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING MINUTES
September 23, 1991
STEELE'S MARKET AT HARMONY MARKET P.U.D. -ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE -#54-
87E.
Assistant City Attorney Eckman stated that due to his previously declared conflict of interest
regarding signs in the Planned Unit Development process he would leave the chamber for this
discussion.
Planning Director Tom Peterson stated that before them tonight was a request from the Neenan
Company, representing Nash-Finch and Steele's Market for an administrative change to the
previously approved signage at Harmony Market, the Steele's Market, Filing Three, Final,
P.U.D.
Based on Staffs review of this matter, it was felt that it was important enough to take the item
directly to the Board rather than Staff acting upon it.
The proposal for the administrative change was essentially to add larger signs adjacent to the
Steele's Market currently approved sign for Pharmacy, Bakery and Deli, three feet high with
some lower signage for Mail Boxes, Travel and Cleaners, 20 inches high on the lower fascia.
The reason this has come about was that instead of what was originally contemplated there
were some sub-tenant leases going on in Steele's Market for some individual businesses. The
applicant felt the need to make some changes in their signage package. They will make those
arguments with the Board.
In terms of Staff review, we have looked at it and believed it was appropriate that the Board
make the final decision. Staff does have a recommendation for consideration, if the Board
wants to go in that direction but it was the Board's discretion at this point.
Chairman Strom asked for the Staff recommendation.
Mr.Peterson stated that Staff, in reviewing this item, had been torn between what we did with
both Pace Warehouse and Builders Square and the different types of use that a grocery store
put into a neighborhood shopping center of this size. Included in the Staff report was an
analysis of building heights, the building widths and sign letter sizes.
The grocery, the staff believed, did have some difference between what you would find with
the much more regionally oriented Pace and Builder's Square type of buildings. Therefore, we
felt that the applicant had proposed a bit much in terms of what else had gone on. In terms of
looking at the other Steele's store on College Avenue and what was being proposed here, we
would be comfortable if the Pharmacy, Bakery/Deli signs were reduced from three feet to two
feet, and would also believe the signs on the top fascia should be the same letter style with the
outline in white and with the muted red brown, interior illumination. This provides some
consistency based on what has gone on with the rest of the center. Finally, we believe that the
three smaller signs, Mail Boxes, Travel and Cleaners, being proposed really should be taken off
of the fascia and be changed into a blue color to continue the signage theme that has been
developed for the other stores in the center. Staff believes that the modifications, in their
opinion, represent a reasonable compromise that demonstrates some sensitivity to the Harmony
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Corridor, the residential neighborhoods to the north, and the integrity of the whole Harmony
Market P.U.D., especially considering the needs of the individually owned retailers located
within the multi-tenant structure.
There was some justification for doing this based on All Development Criteria number 2, 33
and 46 in Section E-5 of the LDGS.
Member Walker asked if the three smaller signs were lowered off of the fascia, where would
that put them.
Mr. Peterson replied that those signs could be placed on the glass below the fascia.
Greg Fisher, the project architect for the Neenan Company, representing Steele's, stated that
the project is progressing very well and were on schedule for Steele's to be open at the
beginning of November.
Mr. Fisher showed a slide of the front elevation facing north on Harmony Road and stated,
immediately to the right, which would be to the west of Steele's, is proposed retail space of
about 20,000 to 30,000 square feet. Further to the right is Builders Square and further yet is
Pace Warehouse. All the lettering and signage shown on the building would be individual
letters as opposed to a sign box. The signage would be constructed of aluminum channels with
colored acrylic faces, the signage shown here, Steele's Market, the main anchor tenant signage
was previously approved with the original P.U.D. and is 48 inches in height. The additional
signage of the Pharmacy and Bakery/Deli is 24 inches in height based on the recommendation
of Staff to reduce from 3 feet to 2 feet. The upper signage as shown, would be all the same in
character and color as Staff recommended and would be exactly the same as the signage on the
existing Steele's stores in terms of color and character.
Mr. Fisher showed slides of the actual main signage on the two existing stores and pointed out
you could see the individual letters, they have a white boarder surrounding the letter with the
muted red color infill.
Mr.Fisher stated that they had discussed the signage and as well the character of the buildings
at the neighborhood meeting and found a very favorable response from the neighbors. A
question was raised about the signage in terms of the amount of signage and so forth, and they
explained that it would be comparable with the existing stores and there was no further
discussion.
Mr. Fisher stated that the signage on the lower fascia was 20 inches in height, as per Staff
recommendation, it is all the same color and character. It would all be blue with the intent to
tie into the signage colors of Pace and Builders Square. In reviewing the Staff report, Staff
mentioned that Steele's is a project that is distinctly different from Pace and Builder's Square
and there are five distinct tenants, each offering neighborhood services, versus a single
regional community warehouse type use that Pace and Builder's Square offer.
The five tenants going into Steele's would be Steele's, which is owned by Bert Steele and
managed by Bob Smith, who is also here tonight. The other tenants would be a Pharmacy,
which would be owned and operated by Ed Horges, who operated the Northern Pharmacy on
North College for several years and currently operates the Pharmacy in the two existing Steele's
stores. The Mail Box tenant is Mail Box, Ect., which is a national franchise, owned by Bruce
and Kathy Anderson.
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The franchise would be leasing Mail Boxes and would also offer services in the form of sending
faxes, UPS mailings and wordprocessing services, and they would also retail packaging goods.
The other two tenants are Ambassador Travel, owned by Bill Brown and operated by Ann Dean
and Country Cleaners, owned by Bill Burger.
Mr.Fisher stated that, typical of all retail spaces, adequate signage and separate identification
of the individual tenants is crucial to the businesses to be operated and be efficient.
Mr. Fisher stated that in reviewing Staffs recommendation, they have agreed to reduce the
signage of Bakery/Deli and Pharmacy to the two foot recommendation. All the signage on the
upper fascia would be the same in character and all the signage on the lower fascia would also
be the same in character. The only recommendation that Staff has made that they are in
conflict with is the recommendation that the signage be lowered from the lower fascia. The
reasoning for this is that they already feel the signage there is very mitigated and scaled, due
to the fact that it is over 600 feet from Harmony Road. There is extensive landscape and
berming buffer along Harmony Road that was required originally for the project as well there
will be retial tenant pads along Harmony Road that would further block the signage.
Mr. Fisher stated that there was some technical problems with lowering the signage. If they
were to bring the signage down onto the brick or glass as Staff has suggested, it would be very
difficult to connect to the glass, other than through the use of neon which would need to be
mounted inside the window, and they did not feel that would be as strong or as pleasing of a
character. There would also be some problems with visibility, in that if you lower the signage
down, it would be in the shadow of the overhang, which is approximately 5 feet, and there are
also brick columns spaced at every 20 feet that would also reduce the potential for view
windows into the signage.
Staff had also mentioned in their report that they saw the three non-food businesses as
virtually the equivalent of the in-line retail space that would be typical in Harmony Market
and that it would be typical of most retail spaces throughout Fort Collins. Therefore, they
request that they be treated the same as typical retail spaces. There will be retail space
developing to the west of Steele's and as the envelope as shown on the Preliminary PUD, that
would be immediately adjacent to Steele's and would more that likely develop almost flush in
terms of the north face with Steele's. It would also be likely that the retail development would
have a fascia, or some similar element such as Steele's has, to both cover the entry ways into
the tenant space and as well repeat the character established throughout Harmony Market. It
would also seem likely that those tenants would also request signage similar to these three
tenants on that fascia which would be the norm pretty much displayed throughout Fort
Collins.
Mr.Fisher also mentioned that the monument sign, placed on the corner of Harmony Road and
Lemay Avenue, is similar to the Pace Warehouse and Builders Square monument signs and
would only say "Steele's Market" and "Harmony Market" on it. None of the tenants would be
displayed there, which further means that the north elevation of the building is the tenant's
only opportunity to indicate that they are present in the center.
Member Cottier asked if the tenants are not going to want to be further identified as
"Ambassador Travel" and "Country Cleaners." Are they happy just being "travel" and "cleaners."
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Mr. Fisher replied yes, it had been discussed and to mitigate having more signage than we
already have on the building, they tried to make it simple and identify the services that were
available so that vehicles passing by on Harmony Road would know that these services are
available and could come in and take advantage of them.
Kathy Anderson, co-owner of Mail Boxes, Ect., stated that they are very concerned about the
signage. They do feel that this is their only exposure to the public and hope that the Board
would see it that way.
Bert Steele, Steele's Market, stated that these services were not offered in ordinary grocery
stores and people won't necessarily be looking for these services in their store and the signage
becomes real critical to the tenants and to their ability to draw business in. He thought the
biggest concern that he would have would be that anything they do on the downside eliminates
the value of the sign at all and he would appreciate the request to stand. He thought that it
also makes an attractive building.
Member Carroll stated that Staff had recommended that the three, Mail Boxes Inc., Travel, and
Cleaners be moved down and he was having a little trouble visualizing just where they would
be moved to. He asked, was it glass all the was across there, or was there some brick? What was
Staff thinking as to where they would go.
Mr. Fisher replied that there was glass on either side of the from door and brick.
Member Carroll asked if they were to be moved down, they would either have to appear on the
glass to either side of the front door or on the brick.
Mr. Fisher replied that virtually would be correct, they would either be on the glass or on the
brick out to the outside of the columns.
Member Carroll commented that they have noted that they have two one word "travel" and
"cleaners" then we have "Mail Boxes, Inc.", which is the name of the company which is three
words and was there any particular reason for that, that it couldn't say U.S. Postal or Mail.
We've got again one tenant who has it's name and two who don't.
Mr. Fisher replied that Mail Boxes, Ect., being a national franchise, has national requirements
for the format of their signage, whereas, Ambassador Travel and Country Clean are local
tenants and don't have those requirements. As he mentioned, they would be quite a bit larger
in signage as well and that was the agreement made.
Member Carroll asked that there are certain other grocery stores in Fort Collins and one comes
to mind, at the corner at Drake and Lemay that does have some postal facilities, does it have
any signage indicating its uses other than groceries.
Mr. Peterson replied that he was not sure. When they went through with the grocery store
downtown at the corner of Mulberry and College, there was some additional signs added and
he thought that if would be safe to say that the trend with neighborhood supermarkets such
as this that they are sub-leasing space to operations like this to make them more attractive. He
thought that this would not be the only request the Board would see in the future.
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Member Carroll stated that he was inclined to go with some additional signage and what
troubled him was that had the neighbors come in and said, "well our paint shop is not ours, we
consign our paints out to a national paint chain and our hardware is not ours, we consign that
to a national hardware chain," so therefore those people want their signs. He suspected that we
would of said, as far as the public is concerned, this is a large hardware store or building store
and you can find whats inside of it.
Member Walker asked about the retail space to the west of Steele's and that it was going to be
more individual retail spaces, what would be the signage requirement or concept on there,
would it be above where the Bakery/Deli is or would it be down on the fascia.
Mr. Peterson replied that the space next to this, the 20,000 to 30,000 s.f. that connects this site
and the Builders Square site has really been talked about in two distinct ways. One is the
possibility of one or two large single users, like a furniture store, an office supply store, that
sort of thing and then you would be looking at one or two operations and one or two signs
somewhere there. The other uses that have been talked about are essentially a long building
with a number of different tenants and in that case you would see a number of signs there. At
this point in time the market is not ready to indicate what was going to happen there. As far
as he knew, there had been no discussion with the owners of the property as to what is going
to be proposed there in probably two years.
Member Walker asked where will the three shops be located within the Steele's, would they be
right at the front and once he knew there was a cleaners in there where would he find it.
Mr. Fisher replied that the cleaners would be located behind the glass, actually he is the last
couple of panes on the end. The travel agent would be located adjacent to him and the Mail
Boxes, Ect. would be in store entrance and would have a separate entrance for their 24 hour
service. Once you enter the store, all three of the tenants will also have some signage inside the
store on a soffit within the store that exposes what their purpose is.
Member Walker asked with this proposal before them, there would be no signs on the glass.
Mr. Fisher replied that was correct.
Member Cottier asked for the rationale to be explained for wanting the three small signs to be
blue.
Mr.Peterson replied that both Pace and Builders Square signage was blue and the three smaller
signs would tie in with that signage. They would expect when the 20,000 to 30,000 s.f. complex
came in there would be some blue in there so there would be a constant theme running through
the entire center.
Member Clements-Cooney asked what was approved on the original PUD.
Mr. Peterson replied that the sign that says "Steele's Market."
Member Klataske asked if this was reviewed against the Harmony Corridor's Design Guidelines
also.
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Mr. Peterson replied it had been and what was being proposed did not impact the Harmony
Corridor sign guidelines. If this was a fast food restaurant on a pad site on the Market then
it would have some impact and we would have looked at that.
Mr. Peterson added that when Harmony Market was approved, there really were only three
identity signs approved for Harmony Market, one where Boardwalk comes in, one in the middle
where the major entrance would be, and one on the Lemay side and there would be no other
signs other than those for identification.
Chairman Strom asked in terms of free standing monument signs.
Member Walker commented that since Mail Boxes, Ect. have their logo on there, then the other
two tenants obviously have some sort of logo and asked, within the space there, wouldn't it
make more sense, for identifying these companies, shouldn't they have their own logo up there?
He would prefer to see within the same space though so that we were not taking up more space
but something that would reflect their corporate identity rather than a generic type of thing.
It did not make sense to him to have one corporate logo and the others in generic terms.
Chairman Strom commented that was an interesting thought from the standpoint of comparing
and contrasting it with the Builders Square. If you have an individual identity, then perhaps
you should display your individual identity, if you don't, perhaps you don't need a sign.
Member Clements-Cooney stated she was looking at a letter to the Board regarding the
additional signage of specifically the Deli/Bakery suggesting perhaps the letters be only 2 feet
tall.
Chairman Strom stated that it was already in the Staff recommendation that the letters be 2
feet in height.
Member Klataske commented that realizing that signage is important, he did not see that any
one of these three tenants travel, mail boxes, or cleaners, were impulse type businesses. Once
someone has visited Steele's they are going to know that they exist and know where they are.
The justification for additional signage above the windows or the building, particularly the
size that is going to very difficult to read from Harmony at 600 feet at any speed whatsoever
and he was having a hard time justifying that.
Member Walker stated that with the location of these signs, you are not going to miss them
when you are walking up to the store. Lets say that these are lowered off of the fascia, on
either side of the door it is right there what these businesses are. The only place you really see
these from is when you are in the parking lot and you are moving into the building. It is going
to be fairly obvious. Obviously they are getting visibility aside from just the signs on the
fascia. He thought it might be more effective to have them where they are located. He
questioned what they were getting by putting these signs on the fascia.
Member Cottier commented that travel and cleaners are plain generic signs and yes they are
not impulse things. The mail boxes, however, she would be inclined to run in if she saw that
it existed as she was driving through the parking lot and needed to mail a letter or do
something. To her there was a little more rationale for having the mail boxes sign but having
said that, she did not have any problem with the signs there, she wished they could be a little
more interesting.
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Member Cottier moved for approval of the administrative change and allow mail boxes, travel,
and cleaners to be on the lower fascia because she thinks it looks better there.
The motion died for lack of second.
Member Klataske moved for approval with Staff recommendations with the comment that if
it were placed on the glass or the brick with the letters being that small and once you are in the
center it brings it down to a personal level, you are already going to be in the parking lot so
where if it is up on the fascia, once you are in the center, do you really look up there. It may
actually help to bring it down to a personal level.
Member Walker seconded the motion.
The motion passed 6-0.
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