HomeMy WebLinkAboutTIMBERVINE - MAJOR AMENDMENT & REPLAT - MJA150001 - REPORTS - RECOMMENDATION/REPORT W/ATTACHMENTS (9)Neighborhood Information Meeting
Project: Timbervine
Date: May 28, 2014
Project Planner: Pete Wray
The project planner began the meeting by going over the night’s agenda and the City’s development
review process. Timbervine is an Administrative, or Type 1, review and the decision maker will be an
Administrative Hearing Officer. Most neighborhood meetings result from development proposals that
are subject to Type 2 or Planning & Zoning Board review. This project will not be going to the Planning &
Zoning Board.
Applicant Presentation:
The project is located to the east of the Dry Creek Neighborhood. It is zoned Low Density Mixed-Use
Neighborhood and approximately 39 acres in size. This is the same zoning as Dry Creek, so you will see a
similar development pattern and density. Some neighboring parcels to the south and to the east of the
site are still located in Larimer County. There is also the Lake Canal that runs along the east side of the
project site. There is an area zoned for Employment to the south as well as the railroad and railroad
switching yard located to the north.
Access to Timbervine will be come from International Boulevard on Mexico Way, near where
International Blvd bends up to the northwest. Mackinac Street from Dry Creek will also be extended into
the project site.
Some of the influencing factors for the site design include connections with Dry Creek and to
International Boulevard (via Mexico Way). We were trying to keep lots facing south, to limit north-facing
windows to optimize solar gain and utilize passive solar. As a result, the streets are oriented east-west
so the homes are oriented north-south. The City requires a certain percentage of the lots to be solar-
oriented.
The Lake Canal is classified by the City as a natural feature, so a certain buffer must be maintained near
the canal. There will also be a buffer at the north and a southern open space buffer to the south used
for detention purposes. We have also envisioned this as an opportunity for a loop trail system around
the entire development, and to connect with greenbelts within the project.
Question (City): Can you explain the construction activity at the site? We have had several questions
about this.
Response (Applicant): This is Xcel construction activity, they are upsizing an existing gas line.
The general land plan is to create a similar entry as you have in Dry Creek, with a landscaped median
entry. As you enter, you are faced with open space, so headlights aren’t directed into someone’s front
door. At the southeast corner, the vision is to develop single family attached (townhomes). These are
oriented towards the southeast to a park/open space. The park is located here to benefit from trail
access and the trail network. There is approximately a mile of looped trail as an amenity for the site.
There will also be a connection to Dry Creek that was stubbed off (not currently shown on these plans).
Dry Creek residents can connect up to that trail. We are proposing a 30’ buffer between this
development and Dry Creek.
There will be alley loaded lots, both large and small. The LMN zone district requires 4 different housing
types. There will be single family detached with front loaded, alley loaded lots that are large and small,
and single family attached. The alley loaded lots will not have front-facing garages; their garage access
will be from an alley. It creates a nice, scaled entry for the development.
The perimeter features larger lot single family homes. The rest of the homes are designed so they open
up onto open space and pathways to on their rear that connect to the loop trail amenity.
A total of 168 units are planned for the site across four different housing types. The overall density for
the site is 4.51 units per acre. This is within the code requirements for the LMN zone district; closer to
the minimum required by code.
There will be enhanced landscaping and buffering along the trail to limit encroachment. There will be a
mix of landscaping/trees.
A shallow detention basin will be located at the southwest corner of the project site. A playground is
also planned on the south side, raised above the area of detention.
The entrance will be a nicely scaled landscape entry, with a sign utilizing the imagery and idea of vines. It
will be very similar in materials to what you see in Dry Creek. The product type will generally be similar
to Dry Creek, with a few possible upgrades. The look and feel will be very similar between the two
developments.
Questions, Comments & Responses:
Question (Citizen): What’s the timing on this?
Response (Applicant): The approval could be by early fall or end of this year. We could be starting
construction this fall, but it will probably be market driven. Given the current market, it may be pretty
quickly.
Comment (Citizen): It sounds really nice, but it sounds like you’re getting in on the cheap without
helping the new or old neighborhood deal with traffic. The name International Boulevard sounds nice,
but it’s a two lane road, but you’re doing nothing but putting more cars on a two lane road. You should
get them off International Boulevard much sooner than Mexico Way. Munich Way is 4 lanes, hardly
anyone using it, going into the corner of your property as a suggestion. Get people to their own
neighborhood as soon as possible.
Response (Applicant): The difference of distance we’re talking is a few hundred feet. Generally, if you’re
doing a development you don’t want people driving through the industrial character of Munich Way.
Response (Applicant): There’s also a school there, and we talked initially with them about doing a park
and helping the school, but in those discussions, they encouraged us not to drive cars by the school.
Comment (Citizen): There are all kinds of possibilities, but you could take Munich all the way then angle
in. The road is always open. This route is already there.
Response (Applicant): One of the other challenges is we don’t own the parcel.
Question (Citizen): Why doesn’t the city ask you to build another lane from Munich Way onto
International Boulevard? Right now people will have slow down and let people turn right. Peel them off
with another lane. In some states you have to do this, have a turn off, no turning off from the main road.
Response (Applicant): We can look into those options.
Response (City): I also overheard another comment in the audience that this portion along International
Blvd is in Larimer County, and that is correct. About 1,200 feet from International is in Larimer County
and under their jurisdiction, and something we work together with them on.
The volumes on International vary a lot, especially with the school nearby. Closer to Timberline we may
see 4,000 trips in a day, but past the access for the school that drops by half, or a couple thousand
vehicles a day. Usually when we start looking at a facility for 4-lanes, we’re around 15,000 vehicles per
day. Timberline right now is running at around 10,000 vehicles per day. Ultimately we have that shown
as a 4 lane arterial, and we know that is coming at some point. Certainly this is something we are looking
at.
I have seen some initial drawings about what might happen to the parcel to the south, and in some of
those I have seen Zurich connect to Mexico Way.
As part of this project, we are asking the applicant, near Zurich Way, to allow a pedestrian connection to
make this area more walkable and bikeable, whether to the school or other areas.
Comment (Citizen): I would ask them to be more creative in looking at an additional lane off
International Blvd.
Response (City): We have standards that help us determine when an auxiliary turn lane would be
appropriate to warrant the facility, and this particular development didn’t meet the threshold, so we
cannot require them to do this.
Response (City): International is shown as a minor arterial street, which is 2 travel lanes. This portion
was built a long time ago to county standards. International is shown to connect with the future
employment area and wrap around the airpark and connect near the Lincoln/Lemay area. There is an
opportunity to get additional choices of dispersing traffic, not just to Timberline, but also to the south
and west eventually.
Question (Citizen): Is there a reason you can’t use Munich Way? Who owns it?
Response (Applicant): An individual out of Denver owns it. It is currently platted and part of the county.
There is an industrial use for this site, but I don’t see it ever developing as industrial, that that is a
possibility.
Comment (Citizen): If you travel on Munich Way, you’re not taking Zurich at all and going by the school.
Comment (Citizen): It does appear the school has a parking problem.
Question (Citizen): Who owns International Way?
Response (City): Portions are in the City and other areas are in Larimer County.
Response (City): The section is still in unincorporated Larimer County and sees minimal county
maintenance. Ultimately the plan is that this develops and annexes into the City and this begins to
change. Especially as we look at the connection down to Lincoln, and this area comes into the City, we
can apply City standards and maintenance practices.
Question (Citizen): Are you saying Dry Creek is Fort Collins and Timbervine is County?
Response (City): Dry Creek and Timbervine are in Fort Collins, but a portion of Mexico Way is in Larimer
County.
Response (Applicant): Everything that you see that is shaded in color (referring to map) is in the City.
Everything that is unshaded is in the county.
Comment (Citizen): I was told the City does not have jurisdiction on driveway gradients in Dry Creek.
Response (City): We should be able to track down the right person about this and we can check on
this.*
*The comment about driveway grades in Dry Creek was raised with a City Engineer, the text in italics
below was the response:
Engineering standards are based on the impact to public streets. Many of the lots out in Dry
Creek do not have public street frontages and Engineering criteria and standards do not apply to
driveways off of private drive. The only standard Engineering has for driveway slopes is the
following standard:
Driveways within the walk and parkway area shall slope toward the street. The driveway profile
grade within 20 feet of flowline shall not exceed 8 percent unless otherwise approved by Local
Entity Engineer. I am not aware of any variances granted for driveway slopes in Dry Creek.
Question (Citizen): Is there ever a possibility of a light being at International and Timberline? It takes
forever to take a left out of there. My concern is adding more cars on the road, this is going to increase
this issue.
Response (City): That is something we had the development look at when they prepared their traffic
impact study, regardless of whose jurisdiction it is. When you approach, there can be a relatively long
wait if you’re making a left.
We grade intersection on a level of service, from A to F and also E. If there’s almost no delay, then it may
get an A. If you have to sit there for 50 or 60 seconds, then you’re right on the bubble between an E or
and F. Currently that intersection is running at a C level of service if you’re making a left at the peak
hour. This particular development will push that from a C to a D.
Question (Citizen): What happens with that eventually?
Response (City): We know eventually that intersection will be signalized. When is the right time to put
that in will be monitored. Part of it is the traffic on International and part of it is on Timberline. There
are a number of different elements. What we do keep in mind is that when you put up a signal, you
don’t have to think a lot about it, but you may have to wait even longer, because our cycle lengths can
run anywhere from 80 seconds to 120 seconds. We want to be watching how long is it taking people to
get out, and if you’re still in that realm of 40 to 60 seconds, you may be better off than with a signal in
terms of wait times.
Response (Applicant): At some point, International will extend to the east of Timberline with future
development.
Question (Citizen): When Mexico Way is coming into International Boulevard, will there be stop signs
and in which directions? That crosses the medians. What will the traffic control be? Right now no one is
cutting across it.
Response (City): There will be a stop sign for Mexico Way; we will not be stopping any International
Boulevard traffic. We’ll also be looking at sight distance as well with existing size of the median and
landscaping. The developer will be indicating the sight distance triangle on their plans.
Response (Applicant): It is something the City brought up and I believe the County brought it up as well,
and this may be the reason why at this location you also see trees on only one side of the street. We’ll
continue to look at this and verifying these questions.
Question (Citizen): From when you start selling, how long do you expect the development to take?
Response (Applicant): That is difficult to answer because it is market driven, but we’re planning on
doing 3 phases. All phases could go at the same time, or portions only at one time. We really hope it
goes as quickly as Dry Creek, but that was probably one of the fastest selling subdivisions in the City.
Question (Citizen): How many lots were in Dry Creek?
Response (Applicant): 227
Question (Citizen): And it took 2 or 3 years?
Response (Applicant): Almost exactly 2 years.
Question (Citizen): With railroads turning into “oil pipelines,” are people looking at that any harder than
they used to? We’re hearing all these stories about trains carrying petroleum derailing, and we’re
putting more people closer to the possible problem.
Response (City): They continue to look at that. There are easements and setbacks. We have pipelines
throughout the whole city.
Comment (Citizen): I bought as close to the railroad as anyone, and was just wondering with all the
stories you hear about petroleum.
Question/Comment: (Citizen/City): There was a person who couldn’t come tonight and had a couple
questions and comments that she would like asked at the meeting… she said she would suggest an
alternative route out of the neighborhood, with a concern being the only exit was International. If there
were a natural disaster there would only be one exit for evacuation. Her other concern was the traffic
increasing on Timberline with new developments, and a suggestions on increasing the number of lanes
on Timberline in each direction, otherwise drive time will increase. The speed limits should also consider
being raised to 40 from 35 like other sections of City arterials.
Response (City): In our discussions with Poudre Fire Authority, their comment was that today Dry Creek
would never be approved, but they view the earlier point of access on International as improving access
to Dry Creek overall. While not ideal with a split median, conditions are being improved.
Response (City): With the number of points of access, we typically defer to Poudre Fire Authority. When
International connects through, that will be another point of access.
Response (Applicant): There is discussion of overpasses at the Vine/Lemay intersection, but that may be
26 to 30 million to implement. The Public Utilities Commission will not allow more at-grade crossings
with the railroad, so everything has to be an overpass or underpass.
Response (City): Eventually we will need to add lanes onto Timberline and we know it will get to that
point. The intersection of Lincoln and Timberline is problematic for us because it is so close to Mulberry.
It’s much too close to put up a signal, and the stop sign is not working very well. One thing we see in the
long-term is to de-emphasize the use of Lincoln, and we see the thoroughfare being more on
International when it connects all the way through. We keep track with the county in terms of function,
crashes, and current conditions.
Response (City): I can look at speed limits. Going out and changing speed limits typically has little impact
on driving behavior. People will generally drive what is reasonable and we tend to set our speed limits at
the 85th percentile of what people are driving. Out of 100 vehicles, whatever 85 cars are going or lower,
that is typically a reasonable place to put your speed limit. There was some thought into the speed limits
that are out there today.
Question (Citizen): What is the timeline for expanding International Blvd?
Response (City): Market driven by development. There are a handful of properties wrapping around the
old airport. A portion of International would be expanded by a new development currently under review
at Lincoln and Lemay. You would see incremental improvements as development occurs.
Response (Applicant): It will likely be years (maybe 15) before you see a lot of these developments in
the Employment zone.
Question (Citizen): In that E zone, what would or could go there?
Response (City): We would anticipate that as employment, such as office or light industrial.
Question (Citizen): So they could potentially build larger buildings out there?
Response (City): Yes there could also be a certain percentage of secondary uses, such as housing.
Question (Citizen): I was looking at a future Fort Collins map, and there was a future trail showing in the
area, do you know what that is?
Response (City): The Parks and Recreation map shows the future trails maps in the City. I’m not sure
whether the one that follows the Dry Creek channel would cross the railroad tracks and the switching
yard. That open channel is expected to extend up to the southern edge of International Boulevard. City
stormwater has already implemented other floodplain improvements for the Dry Creek basin, even far
up north of College. Some improvements closer to College are providing additional improvements to
reduce flooding events in Dry Creek and provide outfall. It’s a challenge in this area, there is a high water
table, it’s relatively flat, etc.
Response (Applicant): The parks master plan also shows a trail next to Lake Canal that we’re stubbing
out to.
Question (Citizen): The park you’re proposing, will that be available to both neighborhoods?
Response (Applicant): The trail and open space will be maintained by the Timbervine and not Dry Creek
Comment (Citizen): It was showing the trail running along the irrigation trail. Does that mean they were
going around the entire property though?
Response (Applicants): It’s not a concrete path; it’s envisioned as crusher-fines, but still accessible for
wheelchairs. It traces the perimeter and behind the western lots and come around on the south through
the proposed park.
Response (Applicant): There’s also that connection to Dry Creek. It is a more pedestrian oriented trail.
It’s really more an amenity for these neighborhoods rather than expecting City-wide users.
Question (Citizen): What is your price point? Will it be higher than Dry Creek?
Response (Applicant): We anticipate so. Being no basements, there will be a ceiling to our price points.
Comment (Citizen): I know someone right off Lincoln who says you can never make that intersection (at
Timberline).
Response (City): We just asked the County to compare our crash data for this intersection, because it’s
right on the border where sometimes different jurisdictions respond. We use this data to compare crash
data, and this intersection has a higher amount of crashes.
Question (Citizen): Extending International – aren’t people putting roundabouts in now?
Response (City): At International we would look at that, and we look at all the different intersection
choices.
Question (Citizen): How many floor plans are you building in this?
Response (Applicant): Do not know yet, but there will be 4 different housing types. There could be 4 to
10 housing plans for the large lot front loaded single family, and 2-3 floor plans for the other housing
types.
Question (Citizen): Do you have a proposed club house for the neighborhood?
Response (Applicant): There is no plan to have a club house.
Question/Comment (Citizen): What kind of disclosure do you provide for the noise coming from the
adjoining business park and the train; is anything provided to potential future owners? There are 3 FAA-
approved heliports that are still actively used today that support many facilities and agencies. You could
have helicopter activity day and night. I’ve lived here all my life, and there seems to be no consistent
mechanism for planning for this type of stuff. There appears to be a lot of misunderstanding about the
type of activities that occur in the area. Theses should be kept in mind; I don’t want to be inundated
with phone calls from people about low-flying aircraft. This is nothing new.
Response (Applicant): That is a great point and helpful to know.
Question (Citizen): Were any Dry Creek residents notified about this?
Response (Dry Creek Resident): We knew there was already this type of activity nearby; we don’t mind
the helicopters.
Comment (Citizen): Putting a development in there, there will be some noise, and it doesn’t address the
safety issue. With the developer of the airpark, we had negotiated a navigation easement so we could
get in and out in a safe fashion and didn’t have to overfly a lot of people’s houses. There will be low-
flying helicopters over these houses.
Comment (Citizen): The City should notify and tell these people that this activity occurs, and if you don’t
like it, you should locate elsewhere.
Response (City): I know when Eagle Ranch just north of Fort Collins Loveland Airport was developed
originally in the county, they had specific notes placed on lots with notice that this activity is present
nearby.
Response (Applicant): We negotiated a drainage easement with the airpark, for what that is worth.
They are aware of this development moving forward.
Question (Citizen): Do you get complaints from residents?
Response (Citizen): We do get complaints occasionally. Just last week the federal government was out
there doing firefighting training.
Question (Citizen): Did you say Encore is doing this?
Response (Applicant): Encore was the builder in Dry Creek, not the developer. It’s many of the same
owners. It’s possible Encore they could be the builder for Timbervine. The old operator of the mobile
home park redeveloped Dry Creek and Encore bought lots.
Question (Citizen): What is to the west of Dry Creek?
Response (Applicant): That is owned by the same owner as some of the Employment land around the
airpark. It could be developed, but most of it is in the 100 year floodplain, so it is unlikely in the near-
term.
Question (Citizen): Those two parcels in front of Timbervine, who owns those?
Response (Applicant): They are in the county, but owned by individuals.
Question (Citizen): They could be developed into something?
Response (City): Yes, currently shown as part of an industrial classification.
Question (Citizen): Wouldn’t that affect the property values of the subdivision?
Response (Applicant): It’s been zoned that way in the county for a long time.
Question (Citizen): Did you model the intersection of Mexico and International to see how much traffic
it will see?
Response (City): I did not model it, but I can check the traffic study and see their figures…
In the morning, outbound 95 vehicles during peak hour and in the evening inbound 106 during peak
hour.
Question (Citizen): Did you look at a right turn lane, in terms of buying the land to be able to do it?
Response (Applicant): Buying the land would probably make the development infeasible; it would be a
really expensive turn lane. We’re targeting a very affordable price point. We hope this to be under
$300,000 and we hope help the challenges with affordable housing in Fort Collins.
Question (Citizen): But you don’t know how much it would be?
Response (Applicant): I know how much the entire piece of property would be. Because it’s platted, we
would have to replat it, or get a right of way dedicate, it would be ballpark between a million and a
million and a half.
Response (City): When we look at right turn lanes, we look at the number, and how many cars are
approaching at the same time as the vehicles that want to go straight, or how many cars are
inconvenienced. In this case the development to the west has more homes. Usually right turn lanes you
have a magnitude of cars that want to go straight that are being held up by the vehicles turning right.
Question (Citizen): If International continues west, eventually there could be a turn lane?
Response (City): The entire design will become problematic once it is punched through because of the
way the median works, it’s a long range plan and at that point we’d be looking at needing to revisit the
design of the whole road.
Question (Citizen): Could you take out part of the median and have an extra lane to Timbervine?
Response (Applicant): The median right now provides drainage.