HomeMy WebLinkAboutFALCON RIDGE PUD - PRELIMINARY ..... JUNE 6, 1994 P & Z BOARD HEARING - 2-94F - DECISION - MINUTES/NOTES• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 31
Member Strom asked what specifically would be the point?
Member Klataske replied that there be some, within the 3500 feet to
the park. If that involves a ditch crossing off -site, then that
would have to be provided.
Member Strom preferred to vote on that as an amendment and have
some discussion on it.
Member Walker seconded the motion as stated.
Member Strom commented that he was not exactly sure where they
would be on that. The only reason he was reticent to take it on as
a friendly amendment is he was not sure about the precedent, since
he did not remember them having done that before. He asked the
staff for some feedback on that.
Member Klataske stated if giving them points for being within the
3500 foot of the school, that it should be within 3500 foot walking
distance. In other words, they shouldn't be given the points for
it.
• Mr. Olt replied the way it's been dealt with, was that the
distances have been defined as the crow flies. That's how they
have been done on any development. So this would be a unique
situation in this case. Granted, there were concerns about the
safety of the movement of the children down Country Club Road, but
in terms of the direct, almost the direct, access to Tavelli
school, in this case, is down Country Club Road, and then it is
just around the corner on Lemay Avenue, so there aren't ditches to
cross, there aren't these things. Be it as the crow flies or as
the street flies, he thought it was within that distance.
Member Klataske asked how about the same thin as far as the park,
you know, where they're given points for being within proximity to
the park? y
Mr. Olt replied the park's a different situation. The location of
the park, granted, it's a little more difficult to get to the park
via streets. And that would increase the distance. But again, the
way we have interpreted the points charts in the Land Development
Guidance System, it's a straight-line distance from the closest
point of the development to the closest point of that criteria,
whatever it may be; in this case, the park.
Member Cottier thought that points out an area that they need to
look at, because the distance makes no difference if it's not
• accessible.
The motion passed 4-1 With Member Elatasko voting in the negative.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 30
Member Klataske asked about solar orientation and the request for
60 single family lots. After calculation of the number of lots to
come up with the percentage of 55 percent, they were only talking
32 of the 58 lots. It's off by the one earlier. What was the
difference there?
Mr. Olt replied that the difference was the ordinance specifies
that -- it related to lots of 15,000 square feet or less. Granted,
a lot in excess of 15,000 square feet maybe could qualify as, but
it did not meet the definition of the ordinance. Therefore, there
were two lots --unless something is changed, that are in excess of
15,000 square feet. Therefore, they do not have to comply with the
ordinance. Therefore, they were looking at 32 of the 58 that are
subject to the ordinance that are in compliance.
Member Klataske asked if either of the two lots that are in excess
of 15,000 square feet complied.
Mr. Olt replied that the theory is that when the ordinance was
adopted in excess of 15,000 square feet, they cannot comply because
you've got enough space on that lot to be able to orient the house
any way you want.
Member Klataske asked if there would be streetlights?
Mr. Olt replied that there would be.
Member Cottier asked about construction traffic.
Mr. Lawler replied they had not discussed that, but that could be
easily be routed separately as an access off of Country Club. That
was not a problem with them.
Member Strom moved for approval of Falcon Ridge POD - Preliminary,
recognizing the findings of fact in the staff report, with the
authorization for the solar orientation variance, and with one
condition that staff and developers explore this question of an
additional access point onto Country Club Road in some more detail
before we get to the final. A second condition that we at least get
some sketch plan elevations, since the neighborhood has requested
that prior to the final.
Member Klataske seconded the motion adding a third condition about
finding out about access to school, whatever off -site improvements
might be required to get the kids from this subdivision out, going
down on Country Club Road or onto Lemay, if it's going to require
a ditch crossing or what; so they're getting points with this right
now for being in proximity to the school, and yet the distance is
as a bird flies, and these kids are going to have to swim a ditch
or something.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 29
may exist there, if they can work that out in terms of some of
those requirements.
Mr. Sherman also added that going across the drainage field, the
1.46 acre there that's shown in yellow, there's something on the
order of a 16-foot elevation change there from their property down
to the bottom of that and back up to Highway 1. He thought that it
was impractical to try to put a street up there. There would be a
30-degree angle at Highway 1 intersection and that would make it
tough to get out onto the road.
Mr Sherman also responded that as far as the stub out on Golden
Eagle Drive, which is the center east -west street, he thought that
it's always more something the City would like us to do to allow
for future development if that parcel to the west of them ever
desires to develop.
Member Klataske asked about accessing Country Club Road from what
is not a cul-de-sac and perhaps working with the neighbors along
Ford Lane, converting that to a cul-de-sac to relieve their
concerns about traffic along there.
. Mr. Olt replied there had been ongoing discussion since
worksession. He knew that the applicants have talked with Tom
Vosberg with the Transportation Department. He asked Mr. Vosberg
to respond to that question.
Member Klataske asked if there was a concern about having two
points of access to Country Club that close together?
Mr. Vosberg replied no. That would be acceptable.
Mr. Olt added that regarding cul-de-sacking Ford Lane, he assumed
when they said cul-de-sacking, they meant cul-de-sacking the
northern end of it where it intersects County Club Road now.
Member Klataske replied that was correct.
Mr. Vosberg stated from a traffic feasibility point of view, it
would work okay. The numbers supported one point of access not.
He did not know what was involved in the process of vacating the
right-of-way and closing off a street in terms of just --part of
it's County, but it could be explored.
Member Klataske thought it would alleviate the traffic coming along
Ford Lane for this subdivision, making the subdivision possible for
the traffic going onto Country Club Road, as opposed to putting it
• down on Ford Lane.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 28
Mr. Olt replied that he was unable to answer that question tonight;
but would research that and have an answer.
Mr. Vosberg added that within the safe routes to school program,
some safe routes to school do utilize areas where there are no
sidewalks.
Member Cottier asked if they had considered extending the northern
east -west street out to Highway 1 as your access rather than going
out to Ford Lane or up to Country Club?
Mr. Lawler replied that they did not discuss that in great length.
They did check, and it was from the guidelines they were given on
distance from that intersection, they would not have been able to
do it. Because of the land point sticking up at Spaulding, they
would have to be fairly north with a east -west route. It was our
opinion that would not be something that would be acceptable in the
traffic design.
Member Cottier asked why was the stub on the middle east -west
shown?
Mr. Lawler replied for interconnection with future sites.
Member Cottier asked if that would have the same problem?
Mr. Lawler replied he did not think the intent was ever to go clear
across to Highway 1. He thought that's to allow further
development, some other attachment. Interneighborhood connection
is all the intent was.
Member Cottier asked what their position was on connecting to
Country Club through their eastern cul-de-sac rather than having
the two access points onto Ford Lane?
Mr. Lawler replied that their conceptual review, initially, when
they first designed this development, was to have an access to
Country Club; and we were advised at that time by Transportation
they'd rather us not do that, so they altered their plan to this
plan. They never have been against that, and they could take this
cul-de-sac onto Country Club if that was the Board's desire.
Mr. Sherman added that if they were to do that, they are right at
the minimum density requirement right not, basically, a number of
things in the course of laying out this project and getting to the
point that they were at now. They would be in the position of
losing a lot both in terms of their density count, and that also a
solar lot. Losing that lot was not without financial cost to them.
It was something that they were willing to do in order to try and
be cooperative with the neighbors and to relieve some problems that
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Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 27
material. We have not sat down and drawn the designs yet. They
will be professionally done and tasteful and a benefit to the
neighborhood.
Member Strom asked for the citizen's question about the sidewalk
issue in this area.
Mr. Olt said internally within Falcon Ridge PUD, they are proposing
sidewalks throughout, on both sides of the streets, sidewalks along
Country Club Road and sidewalks along at least the west side of
Ford Lane. So typically, this would have to meet the standard City
criteria for streets and sidewalks.
Member Strom asked other than within the development itself, is
there any pedestrian facilitation from this area to the school or
park site?
Mr. Olt said there is not to date, and that dialogue hasn't taken
place. No, once you leave the area of Falcon Ridge development,
there is no sidewalk.
/^1 Member Strom asked if the City typically looks at off -site
improvements to sidewalks. To his recollection, do we?
Mr. Olt deferred the question to Mike Herzig.
Mr. Herzig stated that the City Code does not address that. The
only off -site requirements that can be placed on a developer have
to do with off -site street improvements. However, it being a PUD,
there have been off -site sidewalks built by developers. Under that
type of framework, you can do that. The only thing he wanted to
add is that as part of the sidewalk improvements internal to the
site, they'd also be improving the sidewalks on frontage of Country
Club Road all the way to Highway 1. That doesn't take care of the
direction to the schools.
Member Strom said speaking of schools, would you address the
standard response as it concerns Tavelli Elementary capacity. He
was looking at the staff report, and it reports the capacity is
there now. Mr. Olt was asked to address the question.
Mr. Olt replied that was correct. The capacity did appear to be
there. The numbers in terms of children generated from any
development of this nature, based on elementary, junior high, and
high school, is given to us by the school district.
Member Cottier asked if the school district have a policy that
. defines that to walk in, there must be sidewalks, and is the school
district aware that these kids are within the walking distance and
there are no sidewalks?
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 26
Mr. Eckman had one other comment to make on the annexation,
ownership and so on. The Annexation Statutes of the State call for
a person having the right to challenge an annexation within 60 days
after the effective date of the annexation. This challenge is to
be brought in the district -- in this case, Larimer County. The 60
days has not yet run regarding the time, Statute of Limitation
regarding the challenging of the annexation; however, the Statute
also says that "any party bringing such action shall first have
filed a motion of reconsideration within ten (10) days of the
effective date of the ordinance, finalizing the challenged
annexation, which motion shall state with particularity the grounds
upon which the judicial review is sought." Mr. Eckman stated that
no motion for reconsideration has been filed, with my knowledge,d
within ten (10) days of the effective date of the annexation
ordinance. It is his opinion that it is too late to challenge the
annexation.
Mr. Basil Hamdan, Civil Engineer, of the Storm Water Utility
Department, said he would address questions concerning drainage.
Mr. Hamdan showed on a slide the area to be releasing near the
Powers property. One of the questions asked of them was to
ascertain how the drainage will work on Terry Lake Road and how
they will mitigate any release there. Another question concerned
the other detention pond with a low area and staff wants to make
sure that whatever is going on in the area does not exceed street
capacity. These two issues have been raised and asked of them, but
have not received re -submittal on those. At this point, we can
only hope that they will meet them, and they are usually addressed
with the final submittal requirements.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked of the applicant about a homeowners
association and what about elevations for the proposed homes. Is
there any idea what the houses would look like?
Mr. Olt responded by saying that elevations have not been typically
reviewed for single-family residential development, be it the north
or south side of Fort Collins. We do not typically ask for
building elevations for single-family residential, but it is
something that can certainly be considered.
Mr. Lawler said that there will be a homeowners association. The
papers are not drawn up since it is in such an early stage at this
point for that. As far as the elevations for the houses, this is
just a preliminary, and we don't want to get too far into things
before we find out what kind of problems may arise. There have
been preliminary discussions with Tom Bolt, an architect from
Boulder. It is the applicant's intention to retain his services to
design five or six designs specifically for this site. New designs
will include masonry on the exteriors and upgraded roofing
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• Planning & Zoning
June 6, 1994
Page 25
is not sufficient
land is sought to
problem.
Board Minutes
for that, then it leaves open the question what
be annexed, and I think that would present a
Mr. Olt answered that with respect to the legal descriptions that
were submitted with the petitions for annexation, he was made aware
by Mr. Powers that there were some discrepancies. Mr. Olt had the
city's Land Surveyor run a closure check on those legal
descriptions and he indicated that they did close, but
unfortunately, Mr. Olt did not have the annexation files with him;
however, he could produce that. He gave closure checks on the
annexations. Realize that annexations are developed from legal
descriptions, they are not field surveyed. After he is finished,
he would like Mr. Rutherford to tell us where the legal
descriptions came from. Those were supplied and certified by the
applicant's attorney. The City Survey says that the legal
descriptions did, in fact, close.
Mr. Dick Rutherford, engineer and surveyor on this project, said
there has also been title insurance, through American Heritage
Title Insurance Company, and has issued policy on this. It has
been checked and rechecked, so he didn't think that there is a
l possibility of a problem in the title. It is very remote. They
have issued a policy from the Ford Estate, through the developers,
where the descriptions came from and the insurance company has
insured the descriptions.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked if it pertained to the triangular piece?
Mr. Rutherford said yes, there is actually two parcels, a deed to
the triangular parcel, and that is the way the Ford Estate had
gotten it to 1960 something. Hark and Heritage Title didn't have
any problem with it.
Vice -Chair Cottier said none -the -less there seems to be issues
about drainage, where the detention pond should be located and does
it adequately handle the drainage from this site. Mr. Rutherford
said there has been a preliminary drainage report done on this. It
is broken into two basins, the north two-thirds of the property
drains to the triangular area. He didn't know if the Board members
were acquainted with the area specifically but it is very low,
quite a bit lower than the highway. It will work very nicely for
a detention pond. In fact, for the historic flows, it will be let
out at the historic rate and continue down Highway 1. The other
detention pond is in the southwest corner of the property, and it
will discharge at a historic rate onto Spaulding Lane, which also
goes west to the Larimer-weld Canal.
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Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 24
vice -Chair Cottier asked if it would be the financial
responsibility of the homeowners on Ford Lane?
Mr. Herzig said it would be the full responsibility of the
developer, because of their impact on the existing street, to
reconstruct the street and put a concrete border on the street to
take care of the requirement that there is a gutter on a City -
standard street.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked about the inadequate infra -structure
existing there, water, water pressure, sewer? Can you address
those?
Mr. Herzig said no he could not, it would have to be done by Elco
if they are providing the water, they would have to respond to that
question.
Mr. Edward Lawler, the applicant, said he would not speak for Elco
but what they have told them they can supply the area well. By
looping, the pressure should be improved quite possibly. The
sanitation, Cherry Hills Sanitation (name of company muted) also
feels that the lines that have been there are quite capable of
holding the subdivision. They had designed their lines bigger for
more development in this area, compared to farther east where a lot
of development is going. So they are actually in favor of using
the infrastructure they already have in place.
Vice -Chair Cottier directed a question to Mr. Paul Eckman, Deputy
City Attorney, brought out by a citizen stating that a legal
description was inaccurate for the annexation and also the
triangular piece shown in the northwest corner was not owned by the
developer, therefore, could it be used as a detention pond for this
development. Are there any problems with us considering this
project proposed with those legal questions?
Deputy City Attorney Eckman said when the annexation petition was
submitted, the certification of the developer's attorney said all
of the owners of the property described in the annexation had
signed the annexation petition. The City does not do its own title
search, it relies upon the attorney to certify that for the City.
We are relying on that and will continue to rely on it unless we
have some more definitive information that would indicate to the
contrary. Regarding the legal description not closing, he thought
he would have to refer to Mike Herzig or one of the engineers who
have examined the legal description. The City Attorney's Office
doesn't plot them out to examine if they close or not. Generally,
as far as the Law is concerned, if the legal description is
sufficient to give reasonable notice of the land that is proposed
to be annexed, I think we wouldn't have to worry about it. If it
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 23
Member Strom asked if the projection is
day for this development onto Country
projection for traffic via Spaulding?
for roughly 350 trips per
Club Road? What is the
Mr. Vosburg answered yes to the first question. The traffic study
focuses on peak hours only. He did his own estimations backing up
the ADT for Fort Lane, but has not done the same for Spaulding, but
said roughly their distribution between the two points is pretty
much an even split 60-40, roughly the same kind of volume.
Spaulding Lane roughly carries 500 ADT. Their traffic study
estimated that in the year 2015, it would carry approximately 750
ADT. The actual long-range projections for Spaulding Lane is low,
closer to 1,500 ADT. While there is a difference in numbers, that
is within the ball park in a residential street in Fort Collins,
although it is starting to get busier than we see in many areas.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked, regarding Ford Lane, the upkeep and
maintenance questions with the idea of it being half City and half
County?
Mr. Mike Herzig, Planning Engineer, addressed the question stating
that he had talked with Rex Burns, the County Engineer, about the
situation with Ford Lane. It is now a County road. The developer
would be required to improve it with curb and gutter on both sides
of the street with sidewalks at least on the west side.
Maintenance of it is something the County would like to discuss
with the City. There is an annual meeting between the City and the
County where they divide up areas like this and determine the most
logical organization to maintain the road. Because the City would
be maintaining all the streets in this new development, it would be
logical that the City would take over the maintenance of Ford Lane
in accordance with full improvement to City standards.
Vice -Chair Cottier said "...full improvements on the east side of
the street?"
Mr. Herzig said they would have to reconstruct the whole street,
and the City requires that the curb and gutter be installed on the
other side. That would still depend upon a design and working with
the residents along the frontage to determine how the elevation
should work and whether that causes problems for those properties.
That is yet to be done within the final design phases of this
project.
Vice -Chair Cottier asked that for the City to take over full
responsibility for that street, it would have to be improved on the
east side?
0 Mr. Herzig said the whole street has to be improved.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 22
per day. The effect of adding an additional access point or moving
the proposed access point wouldn't have any affect whatsoever on
the total volume on Country Club Road because it is the same amount
of trips being generated by the development just being disbursed to
Country Club Road in a different way. If, for instance, an
additional access point was provided within this development at the
point suggested by one of the gentlemen who testified, the affect
would be that it would be spread out over two access points onto
Country Club Road. From a general practice point of view, the aim
is to take advantage of existing access and limit access onto a
road in order to improve the flow on that road. Providing multiple
points of access on Country Club Road may impede the flow of
traffic than if the access was concentrated at one point. The flip
side of that is providing multiple points of access disburses the
traffic more within the area that is generating the traffic.
Member Strom asked if his view of Country Club Road is to serve as
a collector street?
Mr. Vosburg said that is correct.
Member Strom stated that we have a lot of concern if there are
multiple accesses to arterial but not to collectors.
Mr. Vosburg Said that is correct.
Member Strom also asked about the Highway 1 intersection
improvements. To your knowledge, are they planning to change the
alignment or location of the intersection, or are they simply
upgrading it and how does that interplay with Spaulding Lane
connection?
Mr. Vosburg said there is significant realignment of the
intersection, and it is difficult to explain verbally. He chose a
graphic that was well suited. He explained the funded project "in
the works". Terry Lake Road will come down and be realigned to
come directly across the bottom of Terry Lake and intersect Highway
287. He pointed out where the new intersection would be
constructed with double left -turn lanes and other improvements.
This small ditch crossing, which is a bridge now in between
Spaulding Lane intersection and N. College, would be removed.
Spaulding Lane would follow the old Terry Lake Road alignment up to
the new intersection of the realignment of Terry Lake Road at
another point. This would separate the intersection of Spaulding
Lane and Terry Lake Road and Highway 287. There will be
considerable offset, where now there is very little offset in that
area. The angles of intersection will also be improved.
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Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 21
information he got out of the traffic study. Again, that
is correct, it is roughly the total average daily trips
that this development will generate and put on Ford Lane.
He said he would like to put it into context. The 350-
400 trips is well within the capacity of residential
streets in Fort Collins. The Transportation Department
doesn't consider residential streets busy until the count
is over 750 and closer to 1,000 average daily trips. Two
weeks ago, we heard from residents of an area called
Imperial Estates, which is a county subdivision where
residents were concerned about maintaining a rural life
style. The streets within Imperial Estates carry
approximately 400 daily trips now, so the future volumes
on Ford Lane would be in that ball park, or slightly
lower.
(3) The safe stopping distance between Ford Lane and
potential access point that a gentleman pointed out was
discussed. He stated that in his conversations with a
State Highway Engineer that 200 feet is the required safe
stopping distance. He is correct. An additional access
n point could be provided in that general area, and he
indicated on the site plan that it would be feasible and
safe from a Transportation point of view. The volumes
forecast don't require that there be an access from a
different point or multiple accesses, but it would be a
safe, feasible access point. Another point of concern
was raised regarding existing backup on Terry Lake Road
and Highway 287 and that intersection in the mornings at
the red light. The State will be improving that
intersection. The applicant touched on it briefly in his
presentation. They will be reconstructing that whole
area and putting in double left turn lanes along with
right turn lanes, so the operation of the intersection
should be improved significantly with the project. It
was his understanding that project is supposed to be
under construction within a year, although he did not
have all the details.
Member Strom asked Mr. Vosburg about the possibility of an
additional access point within the development and what do he see
as projections for longer term traffic on Country Club Road. Would
this be a problem?
Mr. Vosburg wasn't sure that he understood correctly. What is the
long-range project volume of Country Club Road? was the second
question related to adding an access point? Country Club Road now
• carries approximately 2,000 vehicles per day. The traffic study
forecasts long range in the year 2015 that will be 3,500 vehicles
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 20
concerns me because of the impact of having two different agencies
on either side.
Mr. Mussard urged the Board to review the numbers and to look at
the situation first hand, drive around on Country Club, on
Spaulding, on Ford Lane, park there for about an hour and see if
you think 100 vehicles will use Ford Lane on any day right now.
This number is excessive and he has no idea where it came from. It
is not in the report. Please look at the drainage and the basin,
please review the traffic situation and do some arithmetic. It
doesn't match up. Again, he reiterated that piece -meal development
will self -perpetuate itself right on to the Wyoming line.
Ms. Dauda Brooks - 2116 Ford Lane - She wanted to go on the record
without repeating her neighbors that she has the same concerns.
She said there should be a "holistic" view of development,
planning, as is being done in the Harmony Corridor Project, and
should be done on a small plot as well. She thought the density
was too high.
CITIZEN INPUT CLOSED.
Chair Cottier said she would restate the questions raised by the
citizens. The first question is concerning the traffic issues,
specifically the accuracy of the traffic study and the implications
for the proposed access onto Ford Lane onto Country Club Road.
Tom Vosburg of the Transportation Department was asked to respond.
Mr. Tom Vosburg, City Transportation Department, Transportation
Planner. He addressed questions raised by the citizens:
(1) The estimate of existing traffic on Ford Lane was too
high at 100, and it was pointed out that the assumptions
used in the traffic study were applied. It should be
more like 50 trips per day. Mr. Vosburg said the
gentleman was right, the report is wrong. The current
traffic on Ford Lane is about 50 trips a day. He didn't
believe that significantly changed the conclusions of the
traffic study, although the additional trips estimated to
be generated by the new development are appropriately
calculated and if anything, that error results in
overstating the total amount of traffic that will be
carried on Ford Lane and Country Club Road, but just a
very small amount.
(2) The total amount of new trips generated by Falcon Ridge
was discussed. He believed the gentleman used his own
estimate of approximately 350 daily trips based on the
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Planning 6 Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 19
employment center, regional shopping area, they are not direct
distances. You have to go through the "mousetrap" of north Fort
Collins.
Mr. Mussard said the storm drainage problem had been brought up
several times, in previous meetings, and has not been
satisfactorily answered. It has been said that all of this would
be taken care of. The Power's family has given some specific
problems with the drainage. He pointed out an area on the map and
located a basin stating there is no drainage at this time. He also
said there is a ridge that surrounds an area where water stands
after a good rain or if irrigation ditches are not shut off after
a time. His question was if the developers were planning to drain
the entire surrounding area or just the subdivision. He said
drainage has not been addressed.
Mr. Mussard said there has not been any presentation to the
neighborhood as to specifics of what is the quality of
construction. There have been numbers given with no specific
information. He referenced the shades of color discussed earlier
in the meeting, red or maroon. The neighbors do not know what kind
• of external surface will be on the houses and yet there is an
expectation that this is a wonderful plan for this community. If
specific colors are addressed in south Fort Collins, it would be
polite for the neighbors to see what kind of buildings we are going
to have directly across the road from where we live, for simple
courtesy.
Mr. Mussard said it has been relayed by the City that services have
to go through the County, who have been told in the past that this
is not a problem. Where are agreements between the two agencies
that anyone else on Ford Lane is injured and 911 is called, how
clear is it to the dispatcher when we on the County side as opposed
to the City side. He knows that the ambulance service serves the
county and the fire department serves the county. Who comes to
check the break-in? Who is the first police officer to arrive? Is
it City or County? He stated there will be some confusion when the
center line of the road is considered. How do I know which side I
am on?
Mr. Mussard was concerned about the upgrade on only one side at
this time and we have not been given an adequate answer as to how
this impacts our side of Ford Lane. will we be required, now or in
the future, to put in curb, gutter and sidewalks? What is going to
be put in on the City side as far as curb, gutter and sidewalk?
Right now, it the rain's real good, his water runs into his lawn.
I think that is great, I am saving water and I am not using water.
I am conscious of that and I am careful of it. If I have to put in
curb and gutter, I have a whole new picture, a small item, but it
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 18
density being too high and found it difficult to understand how the
project would be a buffer between larger properties and larger
properties. The printed information that he had seen is somewhat
misleading in regard to the wonderful site this is for this type of
development, such as a park within 3,000 feet, only if you swim the
Eaton Ditch or allow your kids to do so. Major employers were
supposed to be within 3,000 feet, again only if you swim the Eaton
Ditch or take Lemay or College Avenue. He was confused by the
process as they were not allowed to discuss density at the
annexation hearing and now er are basically being told that we are
fortunate that they haven't passed 5 units per acre minimum and
that we are lucky that we are only getting 3 units per acre. He
did not understand at what point the density gets to be discussed.
In regard to lot size, he said, if you look at the lots they are in
the 7,000 - 7,500 square foot category. The developer's claim to
fame is 10,000 square foot average. I can develop 6 lots, 5 at
2,000 and 1 at 100,00D and collect 18,300 square foot average. The
figures can be somewhat misleading. One other number that was
confusing was that the solar variance is based on 32 of 58 lots to
come up with a percentage. According to the staff report earlier,
he didn't understand the difference between 58 and 60.
Carl Spaulding - owner of the property bordering on the west side.
he had big problems with where the road tends to dump on his
property. He showed the location of his home facing south. The
access on Spaulding lane notes that there are problems on its
access to Highway 1. There can't be Valley View, Spaulding Lane,
trailer people to go up and out (he was pointing to the map). He
said he was not contacted and asked planning staff to communicate
with him.
Don Mussard - 2124 Ford Lane - he said it was across the road and
part of the access to the proposed development. The proposal by
the developers is strong on defending objections raised in the
past, but nothing was proposed but simply defended questions that
had been raised. The point that this very nicely fits and buffers
between urban and rural and suburban developments that have been
there for many years. He contended that "piece -meal" development,
one small area at a time, is self-perpetuating in that one is the
buffer for the next one and the next one, etc. He was not sold on
this idea. He requested the area map. The number of feet to a
neighborhood playground is there to here. There is no street to
connect the neighborhood easily or the alternative is a congested
street or Country Club Road to Lemay, none of which have berms nor
sidewalks. We are told that someday they will be provided for us.
It doesn't help the kids that have to cross other people's property
in order to get to school. They are close enough so they can't
ride the bus, they can't get to the park, it is misleading to say
it is 3,500 feet. He said the same thing applies with the major
• Planning & zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 17
Mr. Powers presented some documents to enter into evidence at this
hearing. He would like to claim that he was representing the
neighborhood.
Vice -Chair Cottier said that the 30-minute time limit is for
organized neighborhood presentations.
Mr. Powers said he believed he provided sufficient copies to the
Planning and Zoning Board and the staff of a resolution and series
of quit -claim deeds. This is recorded at the County and what it
represents is the first two quit -claim deeds on pages 2 and 3.
Quit -Claim the property I pointed out previously between and enter
a common ownership between the County and the Larimer-Weld
Irrigation Company. They in turn hold the property in common.
Mr. Powers said the other two quit -claim deeds which begin on page
4 and 5, quit -claim that land to the Ford family and Powers'
family. He brought to the Board's attention on page 4, the bold
letters on the first quit -claim deed on page 4, it says that the
property that he has pointed out to the Board, is for the use and
occupancy for agricultural and farming purposes. This does not
• appear to be to us an agricultural or farming purpose. It is
definitely an urban purpose to put a detention pond there.
Legally, the detention pond belongs on the developer's property,
not on the County's and irrigation company's property, if that is
the case. The result of this is that it reduces the developers
acreage without that by 1.46 acres, the density goes to 3.29 units
per acre for the 18.24 acres that remain in the development without
the area I outlined as the triangular area.
Besides the concerns regarding ownership, there is also concern
about the drainage and who will maintain it. We see that there
will be a homeowner's association developed; we would like to have
further established with sufficient capital to maintain. We also
would expect to be able to expect and improve any drainage
improvements on the triangular area as well, sine we do have an
interest in this area. We don't doubt that the drainage can go
through that area, but at historic rates, and we do want to have
the assurance that we have the ability to inspect and approve the
drainage improvements which will flow over an ownership interest
that we hold. We also expect that the developer will improve the
drainage along Highway 1, Terry Lake Road to its ultimate point of
discharge at the Larimer-Weld Canal. That would mean improvement
along the highway -barrow ditch. That concluded his comments.
Clifford Hart - 609 Cordial Road - He agreed with what other
neighbors had said and that he lives on the north side of Country
Club Road, where the lots are considerably larger and most are
acreages, as are some of the properties to the south. he addressed
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 16
schools. If you look at the way it is presently, none of the
connecting streets have sidewalks, curbs or gutters. He showed
that the only way to get to the parks would be to go down Country
Club and then south on Lemay to the park, which is across an
irrigation ditch. He offered an idea of a centrally located park
for the proposed development, or playground, or reduce the density
to 30, stating the existing plan shows some lots to 6,000 square
feet. His concern was for the children.
Ed Powers - represents a family that owns property to the west of
the development - The Spaulding property is between the development
and his client's property. he showed the location on the map. The
property has been owned by the family for generations, 70 years,
and have lived there. At the time of annexation, there were
several things requested and he did not see them happening in this
development plan. He said he appreciated the staff providing the
necessary information regarding the development.
Mr. Powers said (1) when the information plat was reviewed, there
was some information from old family records that not all of the
owners had participated in the election of this annexation. He
said he would bring it up later. (2) When the legal description
was reviewed, they found it to be inaccurate, the legal description
did not close and that several of the courses did not match up. In
particular, the first course which produces contiguity with the
City at this point that ran more northwesterly and away from the
City limit line. This was brought to the Planning Staff s
attention, they were notified prior to consideration by the Council
for this annexation. Unfortunately, nothing has been done
regarding those legal descriptions. Further problems have occurred
as we have reviewed the legal descriptions and how it related to
our property and how things interacted in the area.
Mr. Powers stated when he came before the Board during the
annexation process, he asked that this be a quality development, of
an urban time and that is not seen in the development plans
proposed. We don't see the urban standard being achieved. Perhaps
we don't understand the preliminary plat process. It does not show
everything. It just shows partial sidewalks only at the entry of
the subdivision, and there are no street lights to provide
illumination and security to the residents. As far as the
ownership that he alluded to that not all of the owners
participated in the election of the annexation. It had come to our
attention that the proposed detention pond area, which is along
Highway 1 and immediately west of the proposed subdivision, near
Terry Lake Road and across Terry Lake itself, is not owned by the
developer.
Planning S Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 15
Mr. Carney brought out a point on highway access. he had spoken to
George Rowe who is the Regional Design Engineer at the State of
Colorado Department of Engineering for the Highway 1 project.
According to Mr. Rowe, the realignment of Highway 1 is still in the
preliminary stages, it is not a "done deal". It is proposed to go
to bid sometime in the next year. There is no inclusion for
pedestrian access to the North College Business Corridor as yet in
the preliminary access plan. If there is an increase in people,
they need to safely access the North College Corridor, otherwise,
the Country Club Road will be utilized, which is already an unsafe
situation.
Mr. Carney said he would like to see this development access
Country Club Road directly. According to Mr. Rowe, the Department
of Transportation, a 30 mph design speed requires a 200-foot
stopping site distance. If they have the same block density as in
Rimrock, oriented north -south, there is 230 feet between the street
(60-foot street), that would provide the subdivision to directly
access Country Club Road. He pointed to the location on the map
and stated that stopping site distance to the east is significantly
less, provides 500 feet to Highway 1 and provides over 200 feet
• site stopping distance in both directions. He did not know why the
developer couldn't take an access to Highway 1 or Spaulding Lane
that would allow Soo feet, and 400 feet is required for 50 mph
design speed.
Ms. Genion Hammond - 505 County Club Road - She stated that she has
been a resident of Rimrock over 20 years and chose to live in the
County because of the animals and the beauty it offers. She
realizes there will be change and as she understands that Ford Lane
is half owned by the County and half owned by the City in length,
two entities caring for the road or not. She challenged the Board
as to the maintenance and upkeep of the road and she asked about
the environmental impacts. She mentioned at Highway 1 you may wait
through three light exchanges before a person could get across
because of the traffic concentration.
Mr. Ray Archer - 423 Spaulding Lane - His home is located at the
southeast corner of the proposed development. his family selected
the area because of its openness and its proximity to the city. He
questioned the density of the proposed development compared to
surrounding areas, where most live on acreages. He believed 60
units was too dense for the area. his major concern is for the
children. He reported that the developer projected 51 children for
the 60 homes site (27 elementary, 13 junior high and 11 high school
students). After reviewing the homes in the $11o,000 to $140,000
range, 3-bedroom with unfinished basement, he concluded that it was
• more like a family dwelling, meaning 1 1/2 to 2 children per
dwelling, meaning 90-120 children. He commented that the
developers said there was good access to the park and to the
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 14
Mr. Manning concluded by asking that, with these discrepancies
noted, he requested the City put a hold on this development until
a new unbiased study is prepared and submitted for review. he said
he would appreciate an opportunity to respond if there were
questions of the City Traffic Department about the numbers he
reported.
Sharon Housely - 2105 Sunstone Drive - She read from a prepared
statement. On Wednesday, December 15, 1993, the Sandcreek
Associates presented a proposal for the Falcon Ridge Subdivision at
a Neighborhood Informational meeting. At that meeting, the
developers wrote down many, many questions and told the group they
would find out the answers to those questions and have a second
informational meeting. Two major concerns she addressed were:
1. Would ELCO Water District be able to provide enough water
for the 60 proposed homes without affecting water
pressure of existing residences?
2. Can Tavelli Elementary, whose enrollment is already 625
students, handle the enrollment from these additional
homes.
Ms. Houseley said she would like to go on record that the
neighborhood had not received any answers to their questions and
would still like to have a response by the developers.
Mr. Tim Carney - 2101 Sandstone Drive - Rimrock Subdivision - He
has written a letter to the Board regarding his thoughts about
Falcon Ridge. He stated it is the toughest development to get
clear answers on because of the nature of the inter -governmental
agreement, the access to the highway and the improvements to the
roads. He has been referred to the City, County and the State and
no one is really answering his questions. He said he could use the
same slide to disprove the buffer area the developers showed a
transition. He could take the same slide and take the opposite
approach. he further stated if the area is known there is a
geologic terrace, there are irrigation ditches, there are lakes.
It is a world away and the density of the surrounding area,
including Rimrock, including everything else around, it is no where
near the proposed density of this development. His main concern
about his, as stated in his letter are.
1. The density is too high.
2. The proposed access is inadequate and unfair to the
existing residents.
3. There is a significant lack of infrastructure to support
growth in this corridor and
4. Public safety would be negatively impacted, children
going to school, roller bladers, etc.
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 13
Ridge Development as they impact families on Ford Lane. His
concern was the traffic that moves east and north out of the
subdivision onto Country Club Road. A direct access from the
Falcon Ridge to Country Club Road is desired by the current
residents there; and talking to the developers, he believed that
was their original plan as well. The advantages would be to
maintain the integrity and independence of the Rimrock Subdivision,
would also reduce safety and environmental hazards to the
established neighborhood residents, and would be a cost savings to
the developer not to have to upgrade the County Road to City
standards. Another point of issue is with the traffic impact study
prepared by Eugene Capola for Sandcreek Associates. Some of the
critical statistical data is incorrect. Some of the assumptions
and estimates pertaining to traffic direction and growth are
questionable at best. These errors would invalidate any
conclusions made form that report.
Mr. Manning said that Ford Lane was estimated at 100 vehicles per
day, on page 3, and would like to have the resource named --where
those kinds of estimates come from. The report also states that it
is under stop sign control and it is not, nor are there 100
• vehicles using that street each day. In fact, using the report's
own trip generation of 9.5 trips per home per day times the five
existing homes on Ford Lane would equal 47.5 trips per day, not the
100 trips stated in their report. There is much less traffic. he
lives at the end of Ford Lane and, besides the traffic he generates
from his house, only a few cars may come his way by mistake. he
calculated only 28.85 vehicles per day. By the reports of higher
use of traffic on Ford Lane, the data indicates a much lower impact
on the development, when in reality, it would have a tremendous
impact, in fact, an additional 300-350 trips per day. Using a high
estimate of 50 vehicles per day, currently on Ford Lane, would mean
a 500 percent increase in traffic on Ford Lane alone. He could not
live with that, nor could his family.
Mr. Manning took another exception to the traffic report. It was
estimated another 10 percent increase in traffic on Country Club
Road and Spaulding Lane between now and 1997. He wanted the source
of the findings as well. The Falcon Ridge development alone will
add nearly 300 vehicle trips per day on each of the roads, based on
their data that 583 trips will be generated from the 60 homes on
that proposed development and half of those trips would be going on
each of those roads daily, according to their report. The increase
on Spaulding Lane, which they designate now at 500 vehicles per
day, would go up to almost 800 vehicle trips per day, or a 60
percent increase. On Country Club Road, the current estimate is
2,000 per day and another 200 would bring it up to a 15 percent
• increase. These increases are without adding any other new
development sin the area over the next few years.
Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 12
The Coalition has submitted a petition to City Council to h ave an
interim look at the existing inter -governmental agreement, which is
overdue for review. This project, Falcon Ridge, is a critical
example of a study that needs to be done before major developments
are allowed to occur. The documents that will be sent to City
Council were given to the Planning and Zoning Board and it has
already been given to the County.
The project needs to be downsized similar to the Pheasant Ridge
Subdivision which is already annexed. Rather than using the issue
that these will be compatible with the existing Rimrock
Subdivision; this does not allow, in its present form, a transition
area and does not appear to be in the spirit of the original
governmental agreement as it was drafted between the City and the
County. It is time to address this "leap -frog" development
concept.
Just because the Land Development Guidance System (LDGS) promotes
this type of density, it should not mean it is always adaptable to
all areas, especially this area north of the major city
development, which is all appearing in the south. The Northeast
has already developed some unique characteristics. Some of the
areas are 30 plus years old. Even though the densities appear
adequate at a first glance, a closer look will show that this
project will actually cause a major impact on the existing area,
especially in view of the already overloaded access on Terry Lake
Road, Country Club Road and Lemay.
We need to slow down and examine, just as we are doing with the
Harmony Corridor, what really is in the best interest of the
established neighborhoods, rather than apply the same criteria as
is used in the much dense uses further south. This area is unique,
having been developed for so long.
There are large tracts of land that have opened up in the south for
development. That is not available in the north, there are pockets
as was shown on the map. It is one of the more critical areas to
be carefully studied. Just because there may be, down the road, a
promise of a by-pass or a change in the traffic flow, it is totally
going to depend on how much money is available from the State. If
any of you have worked on the express way or by-pass projects,
historically, a piece of it is done and money runs out. If the
project is passed in its existing form, this project is just going
to be a nightmare for the people that live there and also for those
people who have purchased their homes.
Mr. Jerry Manning - resident of the Rimrock Subdivision - he is a
member of the Northeast Neighborhood Coalition. He addressed the
traffic and safety issues as they relate to the planned Falcon
• Planning & Zoning Board Minutes
June 6, 1994
Page 11
r 1
L J
0
Member Strom moved to reaffirm the Boardes position made two weeks
ago.
Member Winfree seconded the motion.
Motion carried 5-1. with Fontane voting in the negative.
Item 5 Falcon ,Midge FIIp - Preliminary, 12-94F
Member Sharon Winfree had a conflict of interest and was not
present during the hearing.
Mr. Steve Olt, Project Planner, read the staff report with the
requested variance to solar orientation ordinance. Staff
recommends approval.
Mr. Peter Sherman and Mr. Ed Lawler of Sandcreek Associates,
presented aerial slides of the area to show why it is compatible
with the surrounding area and why it provides a good transition
from College Avenue to Highway 1 into the County and larger acreage
areas. There are a half dozen houses on Ford Lane and one lot is
vacant. Rimrock is a 10-acre parcel with a density of 3.1 acres,
which is almost exactly the same density they are proposing for the
development directly across the street. He showed a slide from the
south where Ford Lane was located. The mobile home park, Valley
View Avenue have a similar density to their development. another
slide showed Spaulding Lane, Highway 1 and College Avenue. There
has been some concern about a traffic bottleneck at Spaulding Lane
and Highway 1. There is a stop light at Highway I and Highway 287.
There is a rather short neck between the Highway 1 and Spaulding
Lane. It is the applicant's understanding that there is a project
slated to re-route Highway 1 farther around the west down 287. The
neck that is connecting Highway 287 and Spaulding will be abandoned
and Spaulding Lane will go up Highway 1 and intersect the new
section of Highway 1 which should relieve a great deal of the
traffic congestion that results at that intersection at this time.
There is a fairly sizable mobile home park on the west of Highway
287, transitioning from a higher density mobile home, standard 3
plus units to the acre, then out into the country. We feel we have
a compatible project and that it provides a good transition. We
will be glad to entertain any questions.
CITIZEN INPUT,
Ingrid Simpson - resides in the Northeast area of Fort Collins -
She represented the Northeast Neighborhood Coalition. This area is
within the larger area that is in the process of being studied.
PLANNING i ZONING BOARD
MEETING MINUTES
June 6, 1994
Gerry Horak, Council Liaison
Ron Phillips, Staff support Liaison
The June 6, 1994, meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board was
called to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall
West, 300 Laporte Avenue, Fort Collins, Colorado. Board members
present included Vice -Chair Jan Cottier, Members Jennifer
Fontane, James Klataske, and Bernie Strom, Lloyd Walker and
Sharon Winfree. Chair Rene' Clements was absent.
Staff members present included Interim Planning Director Ron
Phillips, Deputy City Attorney Paul Eckman, Joe Frank, Basil
Hamdan, Mike Herzig, Steve Olt, Ted Shepard, Tom Vosburg, Kirsten
Whetstone, and Carolyn Worden.
AGENDA REVIEW
Mr. Ron Phillips, Interim Planning Director read the agenda
review items. Consent Agenda: Item 1. 5 Senses Daycare PUD -
Preliminary and Final, #23-94, Item 2. Resolution PZ94-7 Easement
Vacation. Discussion Agenda: Item 3. Harmony Market PUD, 6th
Filing, Red Robin - Final, #54-87T, Item 4. Amendment to the
Harmony Corridor Plan and Land Development Guidance System, #29-
90A, Item 5. Falcon Ridge PUD - Preliminary, #2-94F; Item 6.
Indian Hills Village PUD - Final, #81-93A and Item 7. Fossil
Creek Estates PUD - Final (continued at the request of the
applicant).
CONSENT AGENDA
Item 1. 5 Senses Daycare PUD - Preliminary and Final, #23-94 and
Item 2. Resolution PZ94-Easement Vacation.
Member Klataske made the motion to accept Items 1 and 2 of the
Consent Agenda.
Member Winfree seconded the motion.
Motion passed 6-0.
Item 3. Harmony Market PUD, 6th Filing, Red Robin - Final.
Mr. Ted Shepard, Project Planner, read the staff report and
recommendations. The conditions of approval have been satisfied
and staff recommends approval of the PUD. There were slides
presented.