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HomeMy WebLinkAboutWOODLAND STATION PUD - PRELIMINARY ..... SECOND NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING - 18-94B - MINUTES/NOTES - CORRESPONDENCE-NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGn TYPE 01: MEETING: _/UE/GlI,C311,c Nyav y„l ry�_r�il �io.J DATE: NAME AUUI►ESS 1p �fl'IE�ARD l r_= Tffv.���t S vro�i s e D4-!3e lelcl 010 Yev of ofIVI WItITTE.N NOTIFICATION o� AAC Yip Aa iev YES/NU OWNER It EN Y�L y k40-- r4 2nd Neighborhood Meeting Minutes Woodland Station PUD Page 7 City to explore a cost reduction. The commitment to purchase approximately 13 acres of open space and dedicate to the City is to achieve 60 points on the Residential Uses Point Chart of the L.D.G.S. If this requirement could be waived, then this would help the economics of doing 2.00 d.u./acre. 26. It appears as if progress has been made. Poudre Ridge homeowners will meet to see if we can reach a consensus regarding accepting 70 half -acre lots at 2.00 d.u./acre. We appreciate your conducting a new pro -forma analysis and paying Cityscape to design a land plan for Option D. We will touch base on Monday morning by telephone and coordinate with the Planning Department accordingly. We all recognize that the City is player and stakeholder in that a variance to City policy is required. This is a risk that is acknowledged but the compromise is worth pursuing through the City's review process. 2nd Neighborhood Meeting Minutes Woodland Station PUD Page 6 21. Would 70 lots be economically viable? RESPONSE: I am not sure at this time. I would have to run the variables through my pro -forma. Also, I would have to ask Cityscape to come up with a land plan. Since these tasks take time, I cannot answer yes or no. 22. We ask that you perform the pro -forma analysis and come up with a land plan. This seems to be a middle ground and there seems to be potential for a compromise. RESPONSE: I will perform the analysis and pay Cityscape for an Option D that indicates 70 lots. I feel I must ask for a commitment from Poudre Ridge that the compromise would be acceptable and that you would not appeal a P.U.D. that features 2.00 d.u./acre to the City Council (assuming, of course, that it is approved by P & Z). I would anticipate that a petition of support would be needed to be presented to the P & Z Board. 23. Since not all families are here tonight, we must go back and meet as group. We feel positive about the direction of the compromise. After we meet, we will contact you by telephone. RESPONSE: I will also meet with my attorney to gauge the feasibility of a P.U.D. given the land use policies of the City. We need a reality check. However, I feel we are moving in the right direction. The questions remain as to whether we are "way out there" and whether City policies can be flexible. 24. What is the downside of 2.00 d.u./acre? RESPONSE: Economically, 2.80 works better than 2.00. Therefore, I cannot totally commit to the compromise but I will commit to running the numbers. I anticipate that selling 70 one-half acre lots will result in less gross revenue than selling 98 lots. Half - acre lots may.have to sell for $70,000 resulting in a house that would have to sell in the range of $350,000 to $400,000. The absorption rate for homes in this price range is slower than in lower price ranges. A slower absorption rate results in longer carrying cost at a given interest rate. This is known as "interest carry" and affects profit.. 25. What about negotiating with the City to reduce land development costs? RESPONSE: This is unlikely given the "growth pays its own way" philosophy. Repays that are due on existing utilities are not negotiable. There is one area, however, that I may approach the 2nd Neighborhood Meeting Minutes Woodland Station PUD Page 5 16. We are worried about trespassing. Our ponds will become an attractive play area. We have ditches, horses, and large properties. RESPONSE: I agree. A playground will help minimize this. 17. The City's plans assume that employees from H-P will live here and that this will reduce traffic and congestion. On the other hand, Linton is full so kids will be bussed, to other schools further away with available capacity. The transporting of kids to school and recreational activities will more than offset any gains of H-P employees living near their place of work. 18. I am concerned about the choice of living styles being stifled in Fort Collins. With the minimum density requirements, we can never have neighborhoods like Indian Hills, Parkwood, or Prospect Estates. These neighborhoods are considered very desirable. RESPONSE: The City's land use planning must account for the fiscal provision of City services. There is a significant benefit for all tax payers if City services can be delivered efficiently. It has been proven over time that a minimum level of urban density is required to achieve an efficient delivery of City services. The County cannot provide urban services. Historically, the demand for increased services rises over the long term. Also, a minimum level of density is needed if we ever hope to have a viable public transit system that will attract ridership. Public transit will be required over the long term to promote air quality and reduce traffic congestion. 19. An. imaginative plan would put density on the arterial, and estate lots toward the east. RESPONSE: Again, as a developer, my experience is that the upper- end home buyers would be concerned about their property values by being so closely located with homes/townhomes priced around $125,000. The mix may not work on a parcel of only 35 acres. It would be better to have a blanket layout of 2.00 d.u./acre rather than. mix housing types and lot sizes on 35 acres. 20. We would support a P.U.D. that had 70 lots at 2.00 d.u./acre. RESPONSE: This is a significant breakthrough. Up until now, the demand has been for one acre lots or larger. 2nd Neighborhood Meeting Minutes Woodland Station PUD Page 4 10. The County approved our lots at 2.29 acres. The City requires three d.u./acre. Where is the allowance for transition? The land use regulatory system between the County and City has failed us. This is very frustrating for County residents. 11. I read in the paper recently where City Council member Gina Janett indicated that certain properties in the City could be de - annexed. Why can't these properties be de -annexed and the land developed in the County on acreage -sized lots that are compatible to our area? RESPONSE: The County has different development standards now than in years past. You will recall that the 2.29 acre lot size was based on the health requirement for on -site septic systems. Lots on these 35 acres, however, would likely be required by the County to hook up to water and sewer. County street standards in the U.G.A. are similar to the City's. Right-of-way would still have to be dedicated for C.R.#9 for an urban arterial street. Finally, the acquisition costs are not affected by City or County jurisdiction. These factors indicate that de -annexation into the County would not result in the kind of development that you are envisioning. 12. Will you ask for a variance for acreage -sized lots? RESPONSE: We are already asking for a variance to go from 3.00 to 2.80 d.u./acre. This will allow for estate lots to be located on the eastern fringe of the P.U.D. 13. Would you consider 2.00 d.u./acre? RESPONSE: This would have to be looked at very closely to see if it made economic sense. Also, 2.00 d.u./acre is politically tenuous in the current climate of Fort Collins. 14. The P & Z Board felt they were stuck on this issue. You are encouraged to be creative and flexible. 15. We are still concerned that there is no play area for children. Kids need a place to go. RESPONSE: I am willing to provide a playground area that would be turned over to the homeowner's association so it does not become a burden on City services. This playground could be fenced for safety. 2nd.Neighborhood Meeting Minutes Woodland Station PUD Page 3 7. All three options look so generic. There seems to be a lack of inventiveness and creativity. Why does it look so typical? You should put your density along C.R.#9 and transition back to the east with acreage -sized lots,. RESPONSE: A. The layout of streets and lots is constrained by the access points on C.R.#9. These streets can only be located in certain locations given the requirements of the City's Engineering and Transportation Departments. Another constraint is the desire to preserve as much existing vegetation as possible. Finally, there is a requirement to dedicate additional right-of-way along C.R.#9 for street widening. B. Please keep in mind that the site is only 35 acres. The kind of housing mix that you suggest usually requires much larger parcels. Miramont is an example. With 35 acres, there is only so much flexibility available. There is also the concern that the acreage -sized lots may have to sell for around $70,000 and feature homes ranging from $350,000 to $400,000. These homes would be very close to homes/townhomes at much lower prices. This kind of mixing might be perceived by the upper end market as undesirable. C. In previous discussions, the neighborhood expressed an unwillingness to have multi -family (townhomes) within the project. 8. The P & Z Board expressed the need for a "Plan" for this'area or for "Policies" that addressed the urban -rural conflict. Based on this, you should ask the Board for a variance to allow acreage lots. RESPONSE: Again, we are constrained by fixed acquisition and development costs. We are also constrained by the political climate in Fort Collins with a City Council that is very concerned about density. The arguments for density are that the site is located along an arterial street and next to a major employer. Our three options, at 2.80 d.u./acre, could be perceived as a transition area between urban development and your estate lots. 9. The L.D.G.S. says that development proposals must be sensitive to and maintain the character of existing neighborhoods. The three options do not provide enough transition. The plan is not aesthetic or unique. The plan does not respect our ecology. 2nd Neighborhood Meeting Minutes Woodland Station PUD Page 2 QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS: 1. Looking at Options A,•B, and C, it must be asked, is this the best you could do? RESPONSE: The options .represent a balance between conflicting objectives. On the one hand, there is an absolute criterion in the L.D.G.S. that says residential P.U.D.'s must be at 3.00 d.u./acre. These options, with 98 lots, achieve a density of 2.80 and thus require a variance from the P & Z Board. On the other hand, the Options include "'estate lots" (from the urban perspective) on the eastern fringe. Economically, there are fixed land costs and development costs that must be factored in or the project is not viable. 2. As you are aware., our position is that we prefer acreage lots to protect our existing rural character. This is why we moved here and invested in our homes and properties. RESPONSE: Acreage lots would be economically viable if the land acquisition costs were lower. However, given the market price of the land, a certain amount of density is required, otherwise the project is a losing proposition. 3. There is a project further south, in the County and outside the U.G.A., that is selling acreage lots ranging from $98,000 to $147,000. This appears to be very economically viable. RESPONSE: I can only comment on my land costs and land development costs. My guess is that the project you reference had lower land cost and does not have to construct urban -style improvements. 4. Your economic costs do not matter to us. We live here. Your project is not compatible. RESPONSE: Please keep in mind that,homes on the estate lots could easily range from $200,000 to $300,000. 5. These economic factors do not account for the natural beauty of our area. There is an ecology in our area, with our ponds, etc., that promotes wildlife and rural atmosphere. 6. The development of these 35 acres affect all of Poudre Ridge, not just the immediate abutting owners. SECOND NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING MINUTES PROJECT: Woodland -Station Preliminary P.U.D. DATE: November 10, 1994 APPLICANT: Brad Bennett, Chateau Custom Homes CONSULTANT: Eldon Ward, Cityscape Urban Design PLANNER: Ted Shepard, City of Fort Collins The meeting began with a review of the existing plan, a review of three optional plans, and a discussion regarding the direction from the Planning and Zoning Board. The lots colored in a dark beige represent the only lots that are under 10,000 square feet in size. Under all three options, the lots next to the Thomas property are 15,000 - 18,000 square feet in size. SUMMARY The meeting resulted in a commitment from the Poudre Ridge homeowners and Brad Bennett to investigate the feasibility of a P.U..D. that featured 70 half -acre lots at 2.00 d.u./acre. Mr. Bennett needs to run a pro -forma analysis and obtain advice from his attorney on the political reality of dropping below 3.00 d.u./acre. The Poudre Ridge group will meet separately to try to arrive at a consensus that 2.00 is acceptable, and, if so, offer a petition of support to the P & Z Board. If Mr. Bennett's analysis indicates that 2.00 d.u./acre is not viable, or if the Poudre Ridge group feels they cannot support 2.00, then Option C will be presented to the P & Z Board.