HomeMy WebLinkAboutHARMONY NEIGHBORHOOD CENTRE P.U.D. - PRELIMINARY - 33-94 - MINUTES/NOTES - CORRESPONDENCE-NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGr
39. Would Sullivan and Hayes consider building something other
than a King Soopers grocery store?
RESPONSE: We've• got the property under contract to build a
neighborhood shopping center that meets City plans and policies and
protects the neighborhood. Yes, there would be more traffic but
Fort Collins is one of the most prosperous cities in Colorado, and
therefore, it is a growing city. Part of the prosperity and growth
means there will be more traffic. As mentioned, we do not have any
plans for non -retail uses. If our contract with the property owner
expires, then, perhaps, the owner would consider putting the land
under a new contract to a non -retail developer.
40. This will be a very contentious project. The key issue is
size, scale, and magnitude. Mr. Sullivan, so far, does not seem to
be flexible on this. Somehow, either King Soopers or Sullivan and
Hayes needs to give a little on the magnitude and scope of this
project.
RESPONSE: We are open to discussion on how best to mitigate this
project. As mentioned, we are willing to work with the
neighborhood, City, and CDOT to design an attractive center that
works for everybody. Tell us what we need to do to make this a
compatible project. On the other hand, please keep in mind that
the City has legitimate review process and we plan.on submitting.
Please do not tell us to just go away.
41. We should look at other centers in town and learn what works
and what doesn't in terms of mitigation of impacts and traffic. It
seems that Toddy's is a good example of what works since there is
nearby residential property.
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32. I'disagree with the previous comments about the City needing .
to be more flexible with the 80 foot setback. King Soopers should
respect the 80 foot setback and still be held to mitigate their
impacts accordingly.
33. A King Soopers "super store" is not part of the vision of the
Harmony Corridor Plan: We should hold fast to the vision and not
allow the land use. The developer wants the neighborhood to play
the negotiation game of mitigating the impacts. We should hold out
for denial of the land use.
RESPONSE: The site is identified in the Harmony Corridor Plan as a
neighborhood shopping center. We are willing to discuss with the
neighborhoods and the City on how best to make this project
compatible. It does, not seem very productive to tell us to go
away.
34. Why isn't King Soopers here to address us tonight?
RESPONSE: As developer, I did not invite them. I believe that
Sullivan and Hayes is taking the lead on this land use proposal,
not King Soopers.
35. Can King Soopers build a smaller store?
RESPONSE: Don't know yet.
36. What about the wall along
going to look like? When will
not just a colored site plan?
Monte Carlo? What exactly is this
we see architectural elevations and
RESPONSE: We will have these details available for your review at
future meetings and you will have opportunities for input on this
and other design features.
37. Are there any other schools this close to a grocery store?
RESPONSE: Laurel School is close to the back side of Albertsons at
Riverside and Lemay but there is no street connection at this time.
(Laurel Street is planned to connect to Pennock Place as per the
East Side Neighborhood Plan.)
38. What about special paths to protect the elementary school kids
going to and from Kruse?
RESPONSE: At the time Kruse was being designed, a path from Cape
Cod Circle to McMurry was considered. The idea was dropped due to
a lack of cooperation from affected property owners. The Planning
Department is willing to again explore this issue in light of the
proposed land use.
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22. Would Sullivan and Hayes consider non -retail uses?
RESPONSE: We are very proud of the shopping centers that we
develop. We are shopping center developers. We would not consider
non -retail uses.
23. What about loitering and attracting undesirable elements?
With proximity to Kruse Elementary, the shopping center could
attract certain elements that could be a threat to our children.
RESPONSE: We do not develop our centers and then sell them. We
manage our centers. We have a maintenance staff that is on the
site. We will be aware that we are near an elementary school We
do not have loitering problems at our other centers.
24. What about an attractive office park with ponds and lots of
landscaping?
RESPONSE: Office development is too risky in this market
environment. We are not willing to take this risk in a market
segment in which we have no familiarity.
25. Has Sullivan and Hayes considered other sites?
RESPONSE: No, we consider the intersection of Harmony and Lemay to
be "ground zero" for marketing purposes and demographics. This was
the nearest available site and it was placed under contract. We
have not considered other sites.
26. What is the,size and square footage of Pavilion?,
RESPONSE: Pavilion is 15 acres with about 157,000 square feet.
27. There will be too much traffic on our streets. We oppose this
project as presently shown.
28. There will be additional traffic on Ticonderoga.
29. Why does King Soopers need such a big store? Steele's is only
48,000 square feet and it seems big enough for a grocery store.
RESPONSE: King Soopers does business differently from Steele's
offering a different package of in-store services.
30. The developer should be cautioned that a lot has changed in
the neighborhood since the mid-80's and that a neighborhood
shopping center at this location should be reconsidered.
31. The Harmony corridor Plan calls for a reduction in land use
intensity away from Harmony Road and that uses should be in planned
centers. "Neighborhood -scale" stores are appropriate. This
project is not, by any means, a "neighborhood store."
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RESPONSE: The City does not review criteria that addresses property
values. There are many variables that influence the value of
individual properties. our experience is that a well -designed
center that pays close attention to mitigating the impacts on the
neighborhood does not devalue surrounding residential property. We
have no evidence that Sam 's Warehouse at Harmony Market, Safeway at
Drake Crossing, or Toddy's at Scotch Pines have reduce surrounding
property values.
17.. What are the thresholds in traffic congestion? When does a
certain amount of traffic become too much traffic?
RESPONSE: Traffic volumes are measured in terms of Levels of
Service (LOS). This measures the amount of time it takes for an
"approach vehicle" to clear any given intersection. It is a
measure of delay that ranges from A (little or no delay) to F
(significant delay). The City's policy is that for signalized
intersections, the LOS should be D or better. To maintain this
LOS, certain improvements may have to be constructed for a project
to be considered in compliance.
18. Is this all that is considered in the traffic impact analysis?
RESPONSE: No, the traffic study also addresses what is acceptable
in the neighborhoods, unique issues such as the location of Kruse
Elementary School, and what is acceptable in an urban environment.
The traffic study also looks at both short term and long term
impacts.
19. Has Sullivan and Hayes considered coordinating with the
developer of Stone Bridge Apartments? 'What about allowing the
Stone Bridge developer to place residential units (apartments,
townhomes, etc-.) on the north side of the King Soopers site along
Monte Carlo so the interface with the neighborhood is residential,
not the backside of a commercial shopping center. In exchange,
Sullivan and Hayes could gain ground in Stone Bridge that would be
at the highly visible corner of Harmony and Wheaton? This would be
the best solution for the neighborhood.
RESPONSE: We have not considered this idea at this time.
20. As residents north of Monte Carlo, we saw the sign advertising
a commercial center before we,.bought our house. We thought the
site would develop as a small. scale center with a bank, offices,
and some light retail. We had no idea it would be a 75,000 square
foot King Soopers open on a 24-hour basis.
21. How many trucks per day will serve King Soopers?
RESPONSE: It is estimated that there will be 6 - 12 trucks per day
ranging in size from the semi -truck to the step van.
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10. The commercial project should be scaled down. How flexible is
the developer to scale down this project?
RESPONSE: Please keep in mind that, according to the Urban Land
Institute, a typical neighborhood shopping center contains about
10,000 square feet of retail per acre. This shopping center is
estimated to have 17 acres of developable ground. This would
normally allow 170,000 square feet. We are proposing 150,000
square feet.
We are aware that our economic plans will have to be reconciled
with City plans for being compatible with neighborhoods. We intend
for this P.U.D. to be a neighborhood shopping center. We will try
to work within the' system so that our economic goals and
neighborhood compatibility are met. It is the city's job not to be
arbitrary and capricious. If the project is compromised to the
point where it is not economically feasible, then the project will
not be built.
11. The project will attract customers from north of Horsetooth
Road. This will add traffic onto Lemay Avenue and Wheaton Drive.
RESPONSE: The traffic study will analyze the impacts on surrounding
streets and intersections.
12. What are the other pad users?
RESPONSE: We anticipate other users to be typical retail and
services that are found in shopping centers. This could possibly
include professional office. It will not include a drug store or
health and beauty store since King Soopers offers these services
within their store.
Since we control the leasing, we can refuse to lease to tenants
that are undesirable. This can be demonstrated in writing. This
is what we do at Pavilion Shopping Center at College Avenue and
Troutman Parkway.
13. Whalers Way needs a stop sign or something to slow speeds
down. So far, the City has been unresponsive to our demands.
14. It looks like King Soopers needs some form of access onto
Harmony Road. Otherwise, there will be too much traffic on
neighborhood streets.
15. With Steele's and Sam's Warehouse (formerly Pace), we already
have enough grocery_ shopping in,our area. We do not need any more.
16. The traffic studies are quantitative in nature. What about
qualitative issues like our quality of life or property values?
4.
5. What does the City perceive to be some traffic options in the
area based on the P.U.D. as proposed?
RESPONSE: The City's Transportation Department will look at the
results of a traffic study that considers not only this P.U.D. but
the apartment project on the west side of Wheaton known as Stone
Bridge Apartments Preliminary P.U.D. These two projects must be
factored in together into a coherent analysis and not considered
individually. It is conceivable that a. limited access onto Harmony
Road could be allowed if restricted to right-in/right-out turning
movements. It is also conceivable that Wheaton be signalized if it
can be shown to a benefit to CDOT. Please be aware that the
amendment procedure with CDOT is an arduous process with the final
decisions being made in Denver.
6. Whalers Way is turning out to be a neighborhood short cut that
connects Golden Meadows to Boardwalk Drive, and thus, easy access
to the new Post office and South College Avenue. The traffic study
should also look at the impacts on Whalers Way.
RESPONSE by Rick Ensdorff: We are aware. that Whalers Way is
carrying traffic from the neighborhoods to South College Avenue.
The impact on Whalers Way will be part of the traffic study.
7. Both Wheaton and Whalers Way will be impacted by commercial
development of this property.
8. Now that the neighborhood has grown up, the commercial
property is ripe for development. However, since designation of
this site as commercial, there have been significant changes in,the
immediate area. As mentioned, Kruse Elementary was constructed.
In addition, 'the area north of Monte Carlo was amended from a
previously approved plan that envisioned multi -family to the single
family that is there today. Third, the Harmony Corridor Plan calls
for an 80 foot landscaped setback along Harmony Road.
Based on these factors, the City should relax some of its
requirements and allow a main entry on Harmony Road, a reduction of
the 80 setback to shift the buildings south, and allow more curb
cuts to serve the center.
RESPONSE: As developers, we have been told to work within the given
parameters as determined by the City and State codes and policies.
We will continue to work with both entities to mitigate the impacts
on the neighborhood.
9. Trucks should be restricted from driving through. the
neighborhood.
RESPONSE: All truck access comes in from McMurry. There are no
curb cuts on Monte Carlo Drive.
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granted signs have' been posted on the property advertising a
commercial center, however, things have changed in the
neighborhood.
For example, Kruse Elementary was not envisioned when the site was
first approved for neighborhood shopping center. I suggest that
the site be used for other profitable purposes. The traffic on our
streets will be increased as will the traffic at the three
intersections with Harmony Road: McMurry, Wheaton, and Lemay.
3. Why are there no curb cuts shown onto Harmony Road?
RESPONSE by Rick Ensdorff:
First, the developer has not submitted a traffic impact analysis.
A P-.U.D. of this size will be required to submit a traffic study
that meets the criteria of the City's Transportation Department.
This includes an analysis of the .impacts on the surrounding streets
and intersections.
Second, the number and location of additional curb cuts onto
Harmony Road are regulated by the Harmony Road Access Control Plan,
a plan that was jointly prepared and adopted by both the City of
Fort Collins and the Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT).
Since Harmony Road is a state highway, the. design and engineering
of the road is under the jurisdiction of CDOT.
Third, in its present form, the Harmony Road Access Control Plan
does not envision a curb cut allowing individual access to this
property between McMurry and Wheaton. In fact, a signal is not
envisioned at Harmony/Wheaton intersection and left turns from
Wheaton onto eastbound Harmony are proposed to be discontinued.
Because direct access onto Harmony Road is presently not defined by
CDOT, the developer has not shown any curb cuts directly onto
Harmony Road. The City, however, would like to keep the options
open of negotiating. with CDOT about possible amendments to the
Access Control Plan, depending on the outcome of the traffic impact
analysis. The City is keenly aware that the construction of Kruse
Elementary School creates an important factor that must be dealt
with accordingly. At this early stage in the process, it is
premature to- evaluate the proposed P.U.D. and future curb cuts onto
Harmony Road.
4. Is the Harmony Road Access Control Plan."carved in stone?"
RESPONSE by Rick Ensdorff: No, there is a mutual amendment
procedure that would have to be approved by both the City and CDOT.
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MEETING MINUTES
PROJECT: King Soopers at Golden Meadows Business Park
DATE: January 20, 1994
DEVELOPER: Jim Sullivan, Sullivan and Hayes
ARCHITECT: Ralph Snyder, Valerian, Inc.
CITY STAFF: Gary Diede, Director of Engineering
Rick Ensdorff, Director of Transportation
Ted Shepard, Senior Planner
The meeting began with a description of the project and a summary.
of the changes that have been made since Conceptual Review. The
proposal is for a 17 acre neighborhood shopping center anchored by
a 66,000 square foot King Soopers Grocery Store. Total retail
square footage for the entire center is estimated at this time to
be 150,000 square feet. The site plan indicates no vehicular
access off Monte Carlo Drive.
QUESTIONS, CONCERNSp COMMENTS
1. Statement from Golden Meadows H.O.A.:
The Golden Meadows H.O.A. has met to discuss this proposal and
would like to go on record as opposing the project. The sheer
magnitude of the project is such that. the center is not
"neighborhood" oriented but, rather, so large as to draw from a
much larger geographical area. The proximity to Kruse Elementary
School is of great concern. Golden Meadows already has.a grocery
store in the area, therefore, we feel the store is not needed. The
shopping center will introduce large volumes of traffic into the
neighborhood resulting in traffic" congestion on neighborhood
streets. A 24-hour store will be noisy. A written statement from
our H.O.A. is provided for the Planning Department files.
2. Statement from Al Konnel:
A project of this size normally would have 4 to 5 curb cuts. This
project has only two. (The Safeway at Drake and Taft has four.)
The developer has admitted that a 66,000 square foot store could be
expanded by 10,000 square feet for a realistic total of 76,000
square feet. This is considered .to be a "super" store, not a
regular neighborhood store and, thus, must draw from -outside the
neighborhood by as much as three miles. Granted, the site was
approved for neighborhood shopping center since the mid-801s, and
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