HomeMy WebLinkAboutTIMBERLINE CHURCH P.U.D. - FINAL - 1-97A - DECISION - MINUTES/NOTESPlanning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
Page 7
Member Craig would support the motion but would not support the project
philosophically in how the code is read. She felt that changes should have been
made to make the code read like they wanted it to read. She still reads A2.4 as a
specific standard and minimum was not added to it.
The motion was approved 5-0.
Project: Modification of Standards in Section 4.23(E)(2)(b) and
Section 4.23 (E)(3)(a)2 of the Land Use Code for the
Maxi -Stuff Storage, 1640 Riverside Avenue, #9-99
Project Description: Request for two modifications of Section 4.23(E)
Development Standards in the I, Industrial Zoning
District of the Land Use Code, more specifically
Subsection 4.23(E)(2)(b) Building Design — Orientation
and Subsection 4.23(E)(3)(a)2 Site Design —
Screening. The property is located at 1640 Riverside
Avenue and is on the east side of Riverside Avenue
just north of East Prospect Road. The property is in
the I, Industrial District.
Staff Recommendation: Approval
Hearing Testimony, Written Comments and Other Evidence:
This project was appealed to City Council and a verbatim transcript is attached.
Other Business
There was no other business.
The meeting was adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
Page 6
Deputy City Attorney Eckman explained the interpretation of the LDGS for
Criteria A2.4. He stated that in the past it has been interpreted all to be
minimum requirements rather than maximums or absolutes.
Member Torgerson asked the architect of the project about the proposed
condition for additional trees to be planted to screen the parking. He asked if he
thought that it would screen the building.
Mr. Larson replied that he did think that it would screen the building, but he
stated that their priority is parking and screening of the building is a lower priority.
Member Gavaldon commented that he did asked for all the ratios and
comparisons because before, the Board did not have a strong table on it. By
providing the information it helps them understand and gives them the
information to compare and to follow the LDGS to make the best judgement. He
thanked the applicant for the information.
Member Torgerson stated that he would be supportive of the project because he
believes that it is in compliance with all the codes.
Member Bernth commented that at first he did interpret the code to be minimum
parking spaces according to the LDGS. He also is taking into account
neighborhood concerns and does not want the church participants parking in the
neighborhood. He felt it was important to have the parking on site, and for those
reasons he would make the following motion.
Member Bernth moved for approval of the Timberline Church P.U.D.
including the condition for the two Evergreen Trees on the berm along
Timberline Road.
Member Carpenter seconded the motion.
Member Gavaldon stated that he would be supporting the motion.
Member Carpenter commented that the Board did not make a decision against
the parking lot at the last hearing, they asked for a continuance for more
information. She would be supporting the motion because she felt that they had
met the LDGS, but she still has a problem with continuing to asphalt the world
because it is cheaper and so we can park. She felt we need to find better
answers than that.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
Page 5
it holds its services at such unique times. A church is considered a positive
addition to a neighborhood compared to a commercial use on vacant land. It
provides a clientele that is well behaved and respectful. The church holds most
of its activities on Saturday evenings and Sunday mornings. A church of this size
will have many members from outside the city limits and have no other
alternative but to drive their vehicles. According to the latest bus route, it does
not provide Saturday evening nor Sunday service. If adequate parking is not
provided, then church goers will park on their streets. He asked that the Board
allow this church to be a positive impact on their neighborhood.
Russell Laughlin resident of Fort Collins spoke about providing a church so that
the church can bring in new members whether from this community or people
who come into this community to learn about god.
Debbie Eckdahl, member of Timberline Church spoke about the singles group
she is involved in at the church. She spoke about the activities at the church that
need adequate parking for safety and convenience. She asked for full
consideration of their request.
Jeff Witter, member of Timberline Church questioned what violations or
ordinances that they have not met that has made the Board come to the decision
that it should be smaller than it is. He asked the Board to address that question.
Mari Mutter, member of Timberline Church encouraged the Board to see what an
asset it is to the community.
Public Input Closed
Member Gavaldon addressed the question of the Board's role. He explained that
they are all volunteers that are appointed by City Council to review land use
guidelines and policies, to review applications and work with staff in making the
best decisions possible for the community as a whole.
Member Craig also clarified that the Planning and Zoning Board is not a policy
making Board. Policies are made by City Council and the Planning and Zoning
Board only enforces the policies set forth.
Member Craig asked about Criteria A2.4 and was there anything that states that
it is the specific standard to use and was there any place that says that it is a
minimum.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
Page 4
Gary Northrup, Senior Pastor spoke about the safety of the 600 kids a weekend
that are walking through the parking lot under sixth grade. There are hundreds of
senior citizens in their community and he felt that adequate parking should be
provided.
Public Input
Gene Little, member of the church gave examples in the community of facilities
that do not provide enough parking for the activities that are held in those
facilities. He felt that this is a community center opportunity for us and we all
share in the responsibility of that.
Dave Pietenpol, Project Manager for Rigden Farm spoke in favor of the parking
ratios proposed by the church. He welcomed the church as a neighbor of Rigden
Farm.
Rex Smithgaul, Administrator at Faith Evangelical Free Church spoke of the
churches similarities in growth and expansion needs. He felt that parking was
also an important issue for them as well. He felt that insufficient parking was a
growth inhibitor. He stated that his church has a seating capacity of 1,000, with
total parking spaces of 432, which equates to a parking ratio of 1 parking space
to 2.3 people in the sanctuary. The church experiences parking problems
because of lots being full and people parking on the neighborhood streets.
Alan Ginsborg, member of the church spoke on parking and parking distributions.
He stated that the residents of this community are the participants and the people
using this property and it was a matter of convenience and accommodation for
people to facilitate the parking. He felt the applicant has been generous in their
approach to the Board and urged the Board to approve the request.
Brad Behoungk, member of the church stated that he did not know the reason to
increase the parking ratio, but several things are clear. One is that you cannot
control behavior through these types of regulatory actions. Just because you
create fewer parking spaces does not create fewer cars trying to park. He was
concerned about the liability of the church and the city because people will park
elsewhere.
Phil Sheridan, resident of the neighborhood where the church is being built. He
stated that he has lived there for 15 years. He stated that he does not like all the
traffic in this town and he is a bike commuter in the summer. He does support
alternative transportation, but can step back and see what is realistic about this
situation. A church does deserve special consideration, primarily by the fact that
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
Page 3
the estimates he received from several builders for the cost of building a
parking structure, approximately $10,567.00 per space.
3. The issue of parking alternatives. He stated that Rigden Farm has told
them it would be at least 5 years before they do anything commercially to
the north of the church. He also asked the Board to not consider putting
parking in the Meadows East Subdivision. He did not feel it was right to
turn a neighborhood into a parking lot.
4. The issue of questions regarding the formulas or ratios regarding used to
determine parking areas. They have provided those formulas and ratios
to the Board. Option A was what they would like considered because it
involves the Land Development Guidance System. Option A, parking
spaces to the main auditorium. They are suggesting the ratio of 2.8 with
1,452 seats which equals 518 spaces, they are asking for 516.
5. The issue of mitigation. He felt that they were not a traditional church,
they were creative, innovative and also very good at stewardship and
finance. They have committed themselves to maintain a minimum of three
services per weekend.
Gary Larson, President of the Larson Group and Architect on the project spoke
about parking on the project. Mr. Larson presented published information on
parking requirements for churches. Both publications recommended 1 space for
every 2.5 seats. Mr. Larson also noted that there is no bus service on Sundays.
Mr. Larson referred to a Chart (F) that was handed out to the Board tonight
which gives Church Attendance and Parking Comparisons of other churches of
similar sizes along the front range. Mr. Larson stated that they have seriously
considered the discussions that were carried out at the last hearing. They
appreciate the suggestion of a compromise, but they do not believe the
compromise is in order, and believe it is in the best interest of the community to
enforce the design guidelines which call for safety, efficiency and convenience
for parking. They are requesting that their 2.8 ratio be upheld for the purpose
that it is already a compromise. To go to any higher ratio would reduce safety
immensely and the LDGS standards for 1 to 5 is a minimum not a maximum.
They have one of the highest landscaping requirements placed upon a church of
this type and they have adhered to every request that the city staff has asked of
them.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
Page 2
Apartments and approximately one-half mile south of
Drake Road.
Recommendation: Approval with the Condition: "The four foot high berm
that buffers the western parking lot shall be enhanced
with additional evergreen trees, sufficient in number
so that at the time of maturity, the combination of
plant material shall form a solid screen as viewed
from Timberline Road. Such additional evergreen
trees shall be a minimum of eight to ten feet in height
at the time of planting."
Hearing Testimony, Written Comments and Other Evidence:
Ted Shepard, Chief Planner gave the staff presentation. He stated that this item
was continued from the October 21st Planning and Zoning Board Hearing. The
item was continued to discuss the parking and the parking distribution issue.
Planner Shepard reminded the Board that there was a condition of approval that
was part of the discussion last hearing. The Board discussion at one point was
to add a certain amount of trees to the berm along Timberline Road. Through
discussion it was determined to add 2 evergreen trees to the berm along
Timberline. He stated that the Board would have to take action on that item
tonight.
Planner Shepard reviewed the handouts that the Board received tonight and
stated that staff was still recommending approval of the project with the condition
that the 2 trees be added to the berm.
The applicant on the project gave a presentation.
Pastor Frank Estep responded to issues that have been brought up by the Board.
The issues of empty parking lots during the week. He gave examples of
other facilities throughout the city that have empty lots during certain
times. He felt that their church facility is used more than most church
facilities in the state.
2. The issue of parking lots being expensive. Pastor Estep agreed that
parking lots are expensive and they have resisted relocating as long as
they could, but it is now to the point of not only being inconvenient, but
also dangerous where they are now. He gave the Board
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
November 18, 1999
6:30 p.m.
Council Liaison: Scott Mason Staff Liaison: Bob Blanchard
Chairperson: Glen Colton (H) — 225-2760 (V\t) — 898-7963
Vice Chair: Jerry Gavaldon (H) — 484-2034 (" - 278-8876
The meeting was called to order at 6:35 p.m. by Vice Chair Gavaldon
Roll Call: Bernth, Craig, Gavaldon, Carpenter, and Torgerson. Members
Meyer and Colton were absent.
Staff Present: Blanchard, Shepard, Eckman, Olt, Schlueter, Stringer and
Macklin.
Agenda Review: Director of Current Planning Blanchard reviewed the Consent
and Discussion Agendas:
1. Minutes of the May 6, July 1, September 16, and October
7, 1999 Planning and Zoning Board Hearings.
2. Resolution PZ99-12 Easement Vacation.
3. Modifications of Conditions of Final Approval.
Discussion Agenda:
4. #1-97A Timberline Church P.U.D. — Final.
5. The Greens at Collindale — Referred Minor Amendment
(Continued).
6. Maxi -Stuff Storage — Modification of Standard.
Member Bernth moved for approval of Consent Items 1, 2 and 3. Member
Carpenter seconded the motion. The motion was approved -0.
Project: Timberline Church (formerly First Assembly of God),
Final P.U.D., #1-97A
Project Description: Request for a portion (Phase One and Phase Two) of
a multi -use church campus. Phase One consists of
114,350 square foot assembly hall/gymnasium with
offices and child care. The assembly hall/gymnasium
would contain 1,352 seats. Phase One also consists
of 5,000 square foot, four -bay bus barn. Phase Two
consists of 86,400 square feet primarily for a
sanctuary/auditorium which would contain 2,500
seats. The site is zoned LMN and located on the east
side of Timberline Road, north of Pine Cone