HomeMy WebLinkAboutRAMS PARK - PDP - 12-00 - DECISION - MINUTES/NOTESPlanning and Zoning Board Minutes
December 7, 2000
Page 17
Member Carpenter asked for a friendly amendment. She thought he had
4.5(D)(3)(b), points 1 and 2. She asked to add point 6.
Member Gavaldon accepted the amendment.
Gino Campana, applicant on the project, asked for a vote on the project not a
continuance.
Member Gavaldon rescinded his motion.
Member Bernth recommended approval of the Rams Park PDP, File #12-00.
Member Meyer seconded the motion.
The motion was approved 4-3 with Members Gavaldon, Craig and Carpenter voting
in the negative.
There was no other business.
The meeting was adjourned at 11:50 p.m.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
December 7, 2000
Page 16
acres and then tried to figure out how they were going to fit this criteria in and that was
not the intent of this criteria.
Member Bernth asked what the slope was in the detention area.
Glen Schlueter, Stormwater Utility responded that it was a five to one slope.
Member Bernth commented that his frustration was that they see infill developments like
this and it is what we should be encouraging. We look at a technicality like this and it is
really a small difference. To a certain extent it is our own subjective judgement and he
understands that. He thinks with the site that the applicant has done the best that they
can. For the Board to argue over technicalities where they are 300 square feet short or
what the slopes are on an area that could be used as greenscape — he just does not get it
on an infill development. He gets frustrated that the Board makes it so difficult for infill
development and in essence that is what they are trying to encourage.
Member Bernth recommend approval of the Rams Park PDP.
Member Meyer seconded the motion.
Member Carpenter would not be supporting the motion. She understands that this is infill.
She feels that it is a little bit too dense for the area and the greenspace needs to be
bigger. We do have to go by the criteria that we have. A gathering area to her when it is
on completely different sides of the building is not the intent of the size was on it.
Member Gavaldon would not be supporting the motion and agreed with Member
Carpenter.
Chairperson Colton commented that in terms of how we define a central gathering space,
he is taking it from sidewalk to sidewalk all the way — this maybe stretching the definition.
He felt that a modification might be requested to reduce the 10,000 s.f. requirement.
Member Bernth rescinded his motion and asked for a continuance.
Member Gavaldon moved to continue Rams Park PDP, #12-22 to the January 18,
2001 Planning and Zoning Board hearing. Specifically to look at access to parks,
central feature, gathering place, 4.19(E)(1)(b), the applicant is providing a 10,000
s.f. gathering space between the two most buildings. He cited the Code on Page
35, Article 4, the location shall be highly visible secure settings, etc., and the size
of the park shall be 10,000 s.f. minimum. Then point 3 and 4.
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
December 7, 2000
Page 15
facilities shall not result in slopes or gradients that conflict with other recreational and civic
purposes of the park."
Member Craig asked if staff did not consider the retaining wall and slope a conflict.
Planner Jones replied that the detention pond itself is not within a slope, it is the walls of
the detention pond. The bottom of the pond is flat. Almost the entire pond is usable
because it is not slopped.
Member Craig asked if she were standing on the retaining wall how far down would she
have to jump to get to the bottom.
Mr. McCallum replied approximately 3 feet.
Member Torgerson asked about how circulation was going to work. The eastern most
access appears to be a one-way.
Ms. Ripley replied entrance only, everything else is two-way traffic.
Ms. Ripley also clarified that if you were on top of the retaining wall it would be three feet
to the bottom, if you were on the sidewalk, it would be 2 feet lower than the sidewalk
itself.
Planner Jones reported that the area they showed on page 1 of the oversized drawing
with the dotted line, the 11.170 s.f. — if you subtract out the area of the detention pond
that is deemed unusable, it would 450 s.f. There would still be 10,000 s.f.
The Board discussed the criteria for gathering places.
Member Gavaldon was concerned because he felt that they were stretching the definition
too far.
Member Craig felt that it did not even meet the purpose of having a park or a central
place. In so many other projects that we have had, they have real nice open areas, even
sometimes their detention ponds are real nice open areas. This does not have it, even
though it is required of them to have it. If we go with MMN, she does not feel that it is
accomplishing 4.5(D)(3)(6). She considers it conflicting as far as pedestrians using it with
a retaining wall there and the fact that the flat area is not right up against the sidewalk. It
bothers her — such parks are highly visible, who is going to notice something that is
tucked between two buildings. When she looks at the site plan it looks like a large area,
but by the time they put in all the landscaping, it is a small area. She feels that this was
not the intent of the gathering area or park. She felt that they have overfilled the 3.5
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
December 7, 2000
Page 14
Planner Jones replied that is the decision that the Board would have to make.
Deputy City Attorney Eckman added that from what he has heard the 10-foot wide
pedestrian easement is going to be eliminated. However, it is going to be continued
along in the Rams Park PDP.
Planner Jones stated that it is not in the exact same location throughout the site. In the
Rams Park PDP, there is an easement that goes through the site, just as there is an
easement that goes through the old PUD.
Planner Jones stated that the existing walk is 6 feet and with the new project it will be
built to 8 feet, but the easement width is the same. The new walk will be relocated so
there is 5 feet separation between the curb and KFC and the new walk. In that 5 feet
there will be a 4-foot high headlight screening fence.
Member Bernth recommended approval of the Major Amendment to the West
Elizabeth PUD file #12-00. Member Meyer seconded the motion.
The motion was approved 5-2 with Members Gavaldon and Craig voting in the
negative.
The PDP will now be discussed.
Member Craig asked about a retaining wall located along the street.
Mark McCallum, Engineering Department responded that there is a retaining wall just
west of the walk, it is about 1 foot above the sidewalk elevation and drops down into a
little detention pond. If you are walking north into the gathering area there is a drop to the
east and west of the walkway going up from the public sidewalk there will be a drop
because there is a detention pond there.
Member Craig asked in figuring of 11,176 square feet, what was all the area considered
that made this a wonderful gathering area. Was the detention pond part of it?
Planner Jones replied that the area is depicted in a dashed line.
Member Craig stated that there are criteria that you cannot use a detention area as part
of a gathering place.
Planner Jones referred to Section 4.5(D)(3)(b), for privately owned parks that would
qualify for the required 10,000 s.f. gathering space. Item 6 says, "when integrating the
storm drainage and detention functions to satisfy this requirement, design of such
Planning and Zoning Board Minutes
December 7, 2000
Page 13
Project: Rams Park Project Development Plan and Major
Amendment to West Elizabeth P.U.D., Current
Planning File, #12-00
Project Description: Request for approval of a four -building, 78-unit,
multi -family development on 3.48 acres. The
site is located north of King Soopers and north
and west of Kentucky Fried Chicken on West
Elizabeth. The site is zoned partially MMN,
Medium Density Mixed -Use Neighborhood
District, and partially zoned NC, Neighborhood
Commercial.
Recommendation: Approval
Hearing Testimonv. Written Comments and Other Evidence:
Troy Jones, City Planner gave the staff presentation, recommending approval.
Linda Ripley, VF Ripley and Associates gave the applicants presentation. Ms. Ripley
reviewed the site and landscape plans for the Board.
Member Craig asked about the correct dimensions of the public gathering area.
Ms. Ripley replied it is 45 feet wide on the ends and in the middle it is 60 feet wide.
Public Input
None.
Member Craig asked what criteria is used to the Major Amendment for abandonment and
was the path part of that.
Deputy City Attorney Eckman explained to the Board the criteria for making their findings.
Member Craig stated that it concerns her that they have taken a public easement and put
it across a parking area where there is cars coming from all directions, when before it was
a very safe connection. She asked if it would fit that the public area or property would be
diminished to the detriment of the public good.
Council Liaison: Scott Mason
Chairperson: Glen Colton
Vice Chair: Jerry Gavaldon
Staff Liaison: Cameron Gloss
Chairperson Colton called the meeting to order at 6:35 p.m.
Phone: (H) 225-2760
Phone: (H) 484-2034
Roll Call: Meyer, Gavaldon, Torgerson, Craig, Carpenter, Bernth and Colton.
Staff Present: Gloss, Eckman, Shepard, Jones, Olt, Wamhoff, Bracke, Herzig,
Mapes, Moore, McCallum, Hayes, Williams and Deines.
Agenda Review: Director of Current Planning Cameron Gloss reviewed the Consent
and Discussion Agendas:
Consent Agenda:
1. Minutes of the May 18 (continued), September 7, September 21
(continued) and October 5 (continued), 2000 Planning and
Zoning Board hearings.
2. Resolution PZ00-27 — Easement Vacation.
3. Modifications of Conditions of Final Approval.
4. Westchase, 2nd Filing, County Referral - Modifications of
Standards.
5. Modification of Standard — Richie's Express Carwash.
6. Recommendation to City Council for adoption of the Larimer
County Urban Area Street Standards.
Discussion Agenda:
7. Recommendation to City Council on the Canal Importation
Basin Master Drainageway Plan
8. #36-96E Mulberry-Lemay Crossings PUD, Filing Two — Final
9. #73-82U Provincetowne PUD, Filing Two — Final
10. #12-00 Rams Park — Project Development Plan
Member Craig pulled item 4, Westchase 2nd Filing, County Referral for discussion.
Member Gavaldon moved to approve Consent items 1 (September 7 only), 2, 3, 5
and 6. Member Carpenter seconded the motion.
The motion was approved 7-0.