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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNORTH COLLEGE MARKETPLACE, SECOND FILING - PDP - 43-08 - MINUTES/NOTES - MINUTES/NOTESPlanning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 23 3. The Project Development Plan complies with applicable General Development Standards contained in Article 3 of the Land Use Code, with two (2) exceptions: * Section 3.2.2(L) Parking Stall Dimensions. This section requires that Two -Way Drive Aisle Widths for 60 degree angled parking be a minimum of 24 feet. The applicant is proposing a width of 22 feet. * Section 3.5.3(B) Relationship of Buildings to Streets, Walkways and Parking, Subsections 3.5.3(B)(1) & (2) Orientation to a Connecting Walkway and Orientation to Build -to Lines for Street front Buildings. These sections require that at least one (1) main entrance of any commercial or mixed -use building face and open directly onto a connecting walkway with pedestrian frontage. Two (2) buildings being proposed in the shopping center (Building/Pad 1 and Building/Shops D) would not satisfy this requirement. The Planning & Zoning Board, on April 16, 2009, approved modifications of these two (2) standards. 4. The Project Development Plan complies with applicable district standards of Article 4, Division 4.19 CCN, Community Commercial — North College Zoning District of the Land Use Code. Schmidt noted the commitment to remove parking spaces to the north of the roundabout and the review by city staff of the median design on Willox. Stockover seconded the motion. Motion was approved 6:0. Eckman said with regard to the 4 parking spaces, given the statements made by the developer and the comments made in the motion, when it comes to final plan review the staff will make sure the parking spaces are removed. Member Lingle said he'd like to compliment the developer and the design team for coming up with a good solution architecturally, with urban planning, and with urban hardscape. Many of the other design concepts we're seeing are exciting. He hopes it's very profitable and meets everyone's expectations, including redevelopment across the street. Chair Schmidt said that she would second that. The gateway aspect is going to be a great feature and she's looking forward to people in the area taking advantage of the amenities. Project: 2009 Annual Revisions, Clarifications and Additions to the Land Use Code Project Description: This is a request for a Recommendation to City Council regarding the annual update to the Land Use Code. There are proposed revisions, clarifications and additions to the Code that address a variety of subject areas that have arisen since the last update in 2008. Recommendation: Approval Hearing Testimony, Written Comments and Other Evidence Staff presentation: Chief Planner Ted Shepard reported that he would be making a very brief presentation (as he'd been working with the Board over the course of the past several months on the specific recommended Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 22 Chair Schmidt reviewed the changes being requested: 4 parking spaces removed on the north entry of the roundabout, the median will be shortened at this point in time (as seen on page 9 of the traffic study, site plan figure 4). Schmidt also wanted to add that during construction, we look at making sure that traffic has access to the Albertson shopping area including facilitating Bristlecone. Director Dush said they will guarantee the adjacent properties will have access during construction. Olson said what the figure shows is a painted median ... the splitter island (from the roundabout) is a raised median. If staff reviews and changes it, there would be some stipulation in writing that if an accident problem developed, they reserve the right to change at a future date. He is not committing to. changing it tonight. While the Traffic Engineer has the authority he doesn't do that in a vacuum. Olson staff working on this project will work as a group to review, discuss, and come to consensus on how they want to move forward with that design feature. Stockover wants to go on the record as requesting/ recommending a "phased" approach. Lingle said he's comfortable with the proposal as stated by Olson. Schmidt said it's good to phase in because we might be anticipating an increase volume of traffic but in fact any growth may come in a slower fashion to start. Marc Virata said the City Code stipulates the Traffic Engineer has the right to regulate driveways. Eckman agreed the Traffic Engineer has the right to regulate the medians and structures in the streets. Director Dush said he has revised language for the condition. "The developer shall be responsible for providing a payment to the City in lieu of having to secure or obtain necessary street right-of-way and/or easements for a pedestrian/bicycle bridge or other necessary improvements to achieve the pedestrian level of service in accordance with the Land Use Code. The payment shall not exceed $125,000.00 and must be paid prior to any building permit being issued for the North College Marketplace, Second Filing. The payment shall be used by the City to defray the cost of right-of-way acquisition, design of necessary improvements at a later time." Eckman said you could make the issue of the reduced parking spaces just north of the roundabout a part of the motion but not a condition of approval as Mr. Holsapple agreed to the change on the record. Eckman said the same relates to staffs agreement to review the need for a median just west of the roundabout. Chair Schmidt made a motion the Planning & Zoning Board approve the North College Marketplace, Second Filing (King Soopers) PDP, # 43-08 given the facts and findings on page 12 and 13 of the staff report including the condition: The developer shall be responsible for providing a payment to the City in lieu of having to secure or obtain necessary street right-of-way and/or easements for a pedestrian/bicycle bridge or other necessary improvements to achieve the pedestrian level of service in accordance with the Land Use Code. The payment shall not exceed $125,000.00 and must be paid prior to any building permit being issued for the North College Marketplace, Second Filing. The payment shall be used by the City to defray the cost of right-of-way acquisition, design of necessary improvements at a later time. 1. The PDP is in conformance with the approved North College Marketplace ODP. 2. The proposed land uses are permitted in the CCN, Community Commercial — North College District. The Planning & Zoning Board, on August 21, 2008, approved a request for the Addition of Permitted Uses, being Drive-in Restaurants and Gasoline Stations, per Section 1.3.4 of the LUC. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 21 Olt said we don't typically. Trying to design the center today for a specific type of commercial use in this building, that building and that building is very difficult to do as they get approval of the entire center without getting assurances of the nature of the uses that are going to be there. They are certainly designing from a layout stand point the vehicular circulation to accommodate certain kinds of uses on certain pad sites. Member Lingle mentioned a development on south Timberline immediately north of the Police Services Building that there was a mixed -use development that has mini -storage at the far west against the tracks. When we saw that PDP each of the pads was more identified that these are the uses that will occur on these individual pads. Olt said that even if that were to occur, you'd most likely see multiple minor amendments to that center if it was approved at that level of detail. As they start to lease out particular buildings, who ultimately wants to be where is based on market driven decisions. Olt said what they're going to get final approval would be geometrically from a layout standpoint. It would look similar to what the Board is reviewing and conceivably approving. To change dramatically the building shape or size would require an amendment to the plan not only for the building itself but the landscaping, parking and circulation associated with it. Member Smith said he thinks the sticking point is the median and he's okay with that. When we have a commitment in our LUC to encourage infill development there will be effects to the adjacent property owners. We've seen medians put in places (for safety reasons) where there wasn't one before and it did have some adverse impacts on folks that got accustomed to something else. But as the city has grown we've kind of instituted in the LUC that's going to be acceptable as long as we take great pains to mitigate and minimize those impacts. If there was not access from the gas station to Willox that might be an entirely different question but what's proposed is not that far (folk's habits will adjust). Member Smith said over time that whole corridor will redevelop and we'll see behavior modifications as to the way folks drive as we see North College uses intensify with different streets and parallel road networks. He understands Stockover's concerns but he thinks that when staff has said they're safety issues, he'd probably rest with their analysis. As far as their purview with the LUC and the criteria they've asked the applicant to adhere to; he thinks they have to the best of their ability. Staff has done a good job to work some plans that really do address a unique little street that is changing. As proposed, he's okay with it. Chair Schmidt asked if they could make the condition of the funds placed in escrow vaguer in case we determined later there may be a better use for pedestrian related improvements. Is that an option at all? Matt Wempe of Transportation Planning said that wouldn't be a problem. It does have to relate to pedestrian level of service based on the URA agreement. Staff member Eckman said "or at such other location as the Traffic Engineer may determine in accordance with the level of service standards of the City." Director Dush said the short answer is yes, we can come up with something. Chair Schmidt confirmed with Traffic Engineer Olson that at this point in time he would be comfortable with leaving the median out. Olson said they would definitely reconsider shortening it. Stockover said it takes a leap of faith on his part but he's willing to take that chance. He truly feels they can make that intersection work. Member Rollins asked if they would be opposed to removing (as shown on page 12 of 22) four additional parking spaces (two on each side) on the north side of the roundabout as you come into the project, so we can clear the intersection up a little more. She'd like to get to a tangent on the curve. Holsapple said yes, they would remove the spaces. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 20 Member Lingle said what he hears Chair Schmidt saying is if it's a classic McDonalds design for instance, in terms of materials, color and quality; it would not be compatible with what we're being presented with tonight. He'd like to compliment the applicant and he would like to see carried through in the architectural standards for all the uses is the fact that the gabled roofs are really roof forms and not just a fake parapet with maybe two feet of gable roof going in and then cut off. They relate to the entire building mass. He would personally not want to see that element lost in the translation to actual users. Mulhern said the developer -built buildings would control the architecture and are key to creating that gateway theme. They set the pad building back thinking that architecture could vary if the first two pieces were very strong. Once they set up the "vocabulary' and "fabric", they set the "guts" and could then get some variety. The banks are normally very willing to use the same materials as the center. The fast food establishments will be a little more of a challenge but they are typically good about using the same materials if you set the theme early on. Chair Schmidt asked about the loading dock and the compatibility with the neighborhood —will the beepers be going off 24 hours a day? Holsapple said the comment they had at the neighborhood meeting was with regard to trash behind the store from someone who hears the trash pickup from the Albertson store. This store has a trash compactor so it's not the banging lid that might be irritating to neighbors. There are 300 feet to the nearest structure at the mobile home park and with an elevation difference of 12-14 feet, a ditch and other things; he doesn't think it'll be an issue at this center. Holsapple said they have a King Soopers center in Loveland and there is traffic throughout the day. They set deliveries prior to 11 when they stock the shelves. Smaller trucks make deliveries during the day. Member Carpenter asked about noise and lights in the middle of the night. In some areas of town we do have places called quiet zones where signs are up relative to truck back up beepers —they turn the trucks off versus having them run especially in the middle of the night. With the wetlands, are you looking at any mitigation considerations? Holsapple said as far as the light, there are restrictions that the light does not "spill over" into the wetland area or any off property areas as the general standard. Holsapple said there will be beepers when they back up. The big trucks mostly don't come in the middle of the night and if they do they drop (the cargo) and go. They have residential within 100 feet of their Loveland store and they don't have complaints. Member Lingle asked Olt about the pad buildings being identified as Pad 1, 2 or 3 or Building B or C but he doesn't see any legend with approved uses that are associated with each of those. There's a depiction about 1 or 2 fast food, a bank, and in -line retail. If the Board were to approve this, the mix of uses and types of buildings seen here is what is being approved even though we've approved by modification of standard far more fast food restaurants (for instance.) Olt said the site plan doesn't differentiate the nature of the uses. The plan does identify the types of uses that will occur within the center but as to how they relate to each pad site they do not. Lingle asked if it was not more common to have Pad A be this, this or this and there are actually identified uses. Olt said not necessarily. Lingle then asked if that's okay and in compliance with the LUC that level of uncertainty can be approved at the PDP level. Olt said the shopping center is approved for an approved range of uses —where they occur within the shopping center isn't necessarily defined building to building —no. Lingle said so at the FCP (Final Compliance Plan) level where the bank is shown now with drive through lanes, curbs and sidewalks can that be changed at the FCP without affecting the PDP approval. Olt said they'd have to look at it for substantial compliance with the PDP. Lingle's point is the level of intensity and the mix of uses is something that is attractive to him when he looks at the site plan and to have a lot of those uses convert to more of one kind of the exclusion of others would not be as desirable and he's looking for some level of certainty of what that might be. Maybe we can't get that but he was hoping they could. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 19 than what they actually need to be. Olson said it's very interesting and challenging because if this goes away so will the capital project improvements ... he can see both sides of the issues. Member Lingle noted that in their presentation, the applicant noted building in old town having different colors of brick. Are the materials they are proposing and for which you are seeking approval that level of quality? Are you proposing the horizontal bands that are shown pre -cast concrete, limestone, or something less? Mulhern said they are incorporating "estate" brick in the reds and buff ranges and will use them to "break up" the building and add interest. Mulhern said 75% of what he does is retail. Often with centers that are as big as 1.2 million square feet. They did a 560,000 square foot center directly across from Park Meadows-75% of the traffic for that center enters through a right-in/right-out with no potential to connect directly south into Park Meadows. One has to go to the extent there (if you're on one side of the center) to go to an area like Bristlecone to get out. Here we're talking about going approximately another 300 feet to the other drive to a roundabout and out. He doesn't mean to sound coy but one of their premises is that if you can get people in, they're going to find their way out. If we take the "cup's half -full analogy", they're putting in a roundabout which is making great connectivity with a flagship King Soopers store and the whole neighborhood. This ease of connection between the King Soopers center and the Albertson's center is going to be a great catalyst for redevelopment of the Albertson's center once King Soopers "lands" and becomes an anchor. All of a sudden this becomes a two block redevelopment and offers opportunities that aren't there today. The roundabout ties the two properties together and creates a great synergy. Member Stockover said when you're coming west on Willox and you miss that first roundabout and you're going to Valero and you can't get there, you drive right across the street and go to one of the other two gas stations. You've then impacted someone. That's why he's pushing so hard not to have that median there and we can't assume that Albertsons is going to fail. Mulhern said he's not assuming that Albertsons will fail but there are other properties to the south of Albertsons that King Soopers will bring synergy to that area. Stockover said he understands that but he did not want to minimize the impact the new development is having on existing businesses. Mulhern said he would agree but one key accident at that intersection and we're thinking safety is a more important issue than access. Chair Schmidt said that part of north College is already one of the more hazardous areas and no one has made safety improvements. This will make improvements in that section. Chair Schmidt said they have a set architecture in mind, will some of the users such as an Appleby's or other national chain come in with a preset design. Does the applicant know what might be coming in the center or will there be certain architectural guidelines they'll need to meet? Holsapple said as far as users they're working with there will be a bank, fast-food users, a sandwich shop, and maybe a liquor store. The design will be as much as possible what has been laid out. Each user will come and have some of their own signage and emblems and there will be a process of give and take getting it to work with the renderings presented today. Users will most likely want the theme to tie throughout. Director Dush, if he understood the question, is the Board is looking for some sort of a unifying theme whether it's colors, materials or architectural treatments. Chair Schmidt asked if there were some requirements with which they need to comply. Dush said if you're seeking a unifying theme, whether through colors, roof pitches or materials, those would be items to suggest to the applicant. Dush said it's important to recognize there is a menu of elements and we could look for some guidance from Member Lingle as to what those menu items would be. Depending on who is the designer, you could also get something that is compatible, well-done, and not necessarily have the theme elements --its artistic license for what might still work. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 18 line within the criteria of the LUC. Transportation staff are taking a look at the traffic volumes and making recommendations on what type of traffic controls are going to be in place to ensure safety and the level of standards are being met. Member Rollins said she completely understands Olson's perspective. Where in this is neighborhood compatibility? Because sometimes we look at access points and they say that needs to be modified from a neighborhood compatibility perspective —in this case the neighbor is to the south. Where does that come into the process just described by Dush? Dush said with every new development application on land that has no development on it, there will be impacts and those impacts are then addressed to certain allowable thresholds. Neighborhood compatibility relative to traffic is outlined and identified in the LUC relative to level of service. So when you take a look at the types of streets (the neighbor to the south being adjacent to College) and the property's zoning in this area; that zoning allows for uses that generates traffic. Our purview and our ability to address neighborhood compatibility are within maintaining that established level of service. Chair Schmidt asked what about safety? We're say the median addresses safety and not level of service. On the one hand we're saying level of service is a big concern but we have to have the median for safety. Can you use the safety "hold factor" as compatibility related? Is the project too big? Does it create too much stress on what the neighborhood can bear? Member Rollin said if she goes to the traffic study and the level of service and she looks at it without the project and what's going to happen to the adjacent driveways, there overall level of service is fine so the impact upon them going from their left turns (level of service B to level of service F). She would argue that if we go from a B to an F for a neighbor that is a neighborhood compatibility component of traffic impacts. She agrees with Lingle when Holspapple said this has already been decided and outside his control —this is the "stuff"we talk about. They talk about adjacent neighborhood and to her it's not just residential. We need to feel that we can say "does that make sense" without someone saying that's already been decided. It's been designed right now. It puts them in a different situation than they've been before. Holsapple said that was not what he was saying at all —that it's already been decided. What he was trying to do was give Stockover comfort in approving the PDP. The median is not decided until City staff has worked through all those issues including considering their comments tonight. Stockover said the Board's ability to have input ends tonight. Olson said the challenge here is that there are two things going on —the development and the capital project which includes rebuilding the intersection of College and Willox and the roundabout. Normally with a capital project, the City is designing and building and that typically doesn't come to the Board for review. The thing that complicates it is they are intertwined. If the development wasn't happening, the capital project wouldn't be happening either. To speak to Lingle's concern, you won't see these things if it's part of a capital project. As far as the development is concerned, as Holsapple said whether the median blocks that west entrance or not is a moot point to them. In fact, when they did the traffic study, they didn't show it that way. City staff looked at that and felt it was the best solution for that section of street. What they can do is go back as a staff and look at the capital project design and through that process determined if it needs to be changed and reconfigured. Chair Schmidt said she's not sure it is because you can look at that capital project and without this scale. of a development there, your assessment of the things needed to be changed would be different. If you add this kind of a project at this location, then you're not only developing one intersection but you'll need to go down to Bristlecone and up to Highway 1 and work on that because the impacts will be felt more broadly. She said our assessment for the traffic impact north and east of the sites (in the county) is lower Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 17 Holsapple said he'd like to make one comment that might make it better for Stockover. In the context of this application, we spent $100,000 on traffic studies doing preliminary designs on Willox and North College. City Council has accepted those and funded those as capital improvement projects for the City. He has no control. Those projects are ongoing and being designed on how far that median goes out. They came up with some criteria accepted by staff and they brought it to Council where it was approved. They approved Willox and North College as a City capital improvement project so any of those changes can still happen as staff goes through their planning process. They're meeting with land owners just as he's met with everyone around. He has no control of whether that median comes back 20 feet or not and he doesn't think it's been determined until that plan goes to Mylar and when the City gets ready to build that. Chair Schmidt asked Olson if that median can be installed later if there are safety issues that develop. Olson said separate from this development proposal; the City is actually working on the design. They can go back and talk about it. They've heard everyone's concerns. Perhaps they do come up with an alternative where they don't put the median across that west driveway and they monitor it. Later if they did end up with a safety problem, they may want to install at a future date. He said that is something we can do through the design process —separate from this development. Stockover said he thinks people will gradually get use to this new scenario but if you initially really irritate them, they'll never come back. If you can phase it in and as traffic increases, people will adapt. What Olson is suggesting would personally make Stockover feel better. Olson said, like the Board, staff is concerned about the public. That is what drove their decisions to do what they did. They do have safety concerns about leaving it open but he guarantees that they'd take another look at it. Once they've made a decision, they could come back and report. Chair Schmidt asked Olson if there would ever be safety concerns that would trigger the signal at Bristlecone (even with volume might be less than is required)? Olson said accident history is one of the criteria for signalization and they would be watching that at Bristlecone. Member Lingle said he doesn't necessarily concur with some of the concerns regarding that median but the thing that really concerns him is the fact that this design funding by the URA is exactly the issue we've been concerned about for about a year. His concern is with decisions being made in advance of a Project Development Plan (PDP) that are cast in stone, approved by Council, funded and moving forward —it hamstrings their ability to effectively review PDPs. It's happened, it'll continue to happen, and what can we do to prevent that from happening again? Lingle said they've been assured at every step along the way that the development review and the Land Use Code (LUC) will still dictate and control what we do at the PDP level and here's a prime example that potentially it isn't happening. Chair Schmidt asked Director Dush to explain. She's not clear about Lingle's concern and what Holsapple implied. Did the URA, at the time they designated funds not designate specific projects? Director Dush said the Board's ability to review this project is,with the LUC. He's not certain as to the comment from Holsapple relative to what was approved and how it would necessarily hamstring their ability to review a development proposal in accordance with the LUC. Your ability to take a look at compliance with any of the criteria in the LUC is still intact and they have the ability to look at the level of service, the ability to look at the design and any other components in the LUC. Member Lingle said what the applicant just told them was he doesn't have the ability to change. Those have been city staff driven decisions that then causes the Board to evaluate the PDP with some of these perimeter issues related to access that the applicant has no control over yet they're evaluating and approving his PDP. Dush said we're taking a look at the development application, reviewing the traffic impact study, and doing the scoping with each application that comes in. Staff's recommendation is in Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 16 Chair Schmidt said Mr. Lewis had some questions about the truck traffic. Feedback the Board has received is that trucks can maneuver the roundabout —it's designed to accommodate them. Schmidt said the one letter they had from Albertsons says their trucks could probably avoid the roundabout by traveling west on Willox to their drive or they'd recommend they use Bristlecone. She thought they could come north on Lemay and east on Willox (albeit not the desirable solution.) Chair Schmidt asked if the $150,000 is a correct assessment of what it would take to put a signal in at Bristlecone. Is that possible as a temporary situation before the CDOT plan is totally instituted? Olson said that assessment is low. A traffic signal on a state highway (because they have different requirements for signal poles and mast arms) is running more like $250,0004300,000. There's a criteria that has to be met before the signals are considered and there are good reasons for that. In some circumstances, they can actually increase the risk of accidents so it's not something that we're "loose" with. CDOT even more so being it's a state highway. Until the criteria are met, they will not be willing to consider putting a signal at Bristlecone. Chair Schmidt asked about a temporary signal during construction. Olson said they would have to look at that as they work through the traffic control plan for the development and the construction. They will be working to make sure that we're always providing access to all business throughout the construction process. Chair Schmidt asked how you assess whether to take Bristlecone east to head down to Lemay just from the standpoint of people changing their habits because there's no way they can get there. Olson asked if Schmidt was referring to the volume going to Albertson's will be less. She said yes. Olson said that's always a challenge with construction and they'll do everything they can to grant access to the site. Member Rollins asked Olson on the traffic impact study, page 19 the overall intersection with a 2010 build out with stop control is level of service A at the west access point and at the east access point it's A & B (in the morning and afternoon). If some of those lefts are headed northbound from the current Albertson's site, she would presume they'd shift their pattern to College and make a right turn onto College if they're going to experience delays. She asked if they looked at that detail as far as still wanting the roundabout there and the median across that west access point. Olson said they looked at the projected volumes shown and that's what they based the decision on. At the west access, eastbound traffic coming off College could potentially stop to make a left turn north was another movement they were concerned about and another reason they felt it was important to control west access. Chair Schmidt said it appears the roundabout shifts Willox a bit. Will this development be responsible for the landscaping on the south side of the roundabout? Olson said he couldn't say for sure whether the development or the URA would be responsible for the landscaping on the south side. He did know that the property owner on the south would not be responsible for it. Member Stockover said this is such a big decision and the developer has spent so much time, effort, and money. When you're concerned about people turning left when they're going east on Willox, you could put a triangle median there and not affect the existing. Olson said when they talked about out onto College that doesn't work on a street like Willox, little "pork chops" tend to work even worse. The most effective way to make that control is with a median. Stockover said while it is the most effective, it is the least desirable for Albertsons. He's having a hard time with a new development is having such an impact on so many small businesses. It's not so much on Albertson's as the Valero, Subway, Showtime and the new shops to the south. He thinks it's his job as a citizen board to look out for those businesses. He wants to make sure we've exhausted every option to make that intersection work as it is presently designed. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 15 force those customers to come through the Albertson's parking lot to get to the Valero and other shops is a pretty "tough deal" and he thinks Chair Schmidt hit it right on the head that Albertson's may not be there for the long term —something bigger may be going in there. That's going to make it even tougher to get into that small parking lot to access the seven businesses along there. He would like to ask that the median does stay and stops left hand turns but at least insure they have access for people headed west to be able to turn into that access road there. It's a fairly major access road (the same size as the one that services Albertson on the east side of the lot). Baker is not a proponent of roundabouts. He lives in south Fort Collins near the Super Wal-Mart on Highway 285 where all his neighbors find roundabouts difficult to negotiate. Those don't even have crosswalks so he can't imagine a roundabout with crosswalks. He had an independent engineering firm assess the roundabout and he'd like to have that report added to the record and have Planner Olt and the engineers take a look at it. Chair Schmidt noted a copy would be part of the public record and the Board could review at a break. Ron Powers, 2018 Terry Lake Road, said they have adjacent property to the north of the development and as a long term resident would like to welcome them. He thinks it's a good project and well thought out. He likes the roundabout. He thinks North College Motors may need to be "thought out" and have that right turn lane thought out. With the pedestrian access shifted west (when the bridge over the LarimedWeld Ditch further east went away), he'd like to see URA monies used to improve pedestrian access on both the west and east side of College. End of Public Comment Chair Schmidt said they have received several other pieces of information at work session and since then. Since some of the Board members have not had a chance to review all the material the Board will take a short break. After the break, Chair Schmidt asked the applicant if he'd had a chance to review the letters. He had. Board Questions: Chair Schmidt asked if staff could address the signage request made by Mr. Lewis. Director Dush said there were a number of questions raised for which he'd like to provide some clarification. With regard to questions related to traffic, Traffic Engineer Joe Olson will address them. Director Dush said the City has a Sign Code. That is entirely a separate process and not something that can be addressed in this forum. He'd be more than happy to chat with Mr. Lewis and explain the process to him. Dush also wanted to touch upon the reference to the Urban Renewal Authority. It is indeed a fact that this project is a part of the URA. It is a funding mechanism but within the confines of the evaluation of this application, it's important to note that the evaluation is relegated to the Land Use Code and the level of service standards that we have in place. The Urban Renewal Authority funds are like any other funding mechanism and those are considerations that don't apply to a level of service standard. This project would perhaps have the ability to spur additional development relative to the pedestrian bridge and linkages. Staff member Eckman said there is one condition staff has recommended in order to comply with Section 3.6.4 regarding level of service requirements (relative to the bridge). If the Board is inclined toward any additional conditions of approval, it would be good to place on record the section or sections of the Land Use Code that you believe that are not being met without the condition being imposed. Director Dush said the transportation level of service condition is shown on page 11 of the staff report. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 14 Chair Schmidt asked can URA funding be used to help with pedestrian/bicycle access improvements. At one time staff member Ken Waido said we could apply some of the URA funds even if it were not in the city limits. She said if we're talking about pedestrian level of access, counting mobile home residents to the parks just northeast and northwest of the site, there is a need for pedestrian access to this shopping center. Also, there are always a large number of pedestrians and bicyclists on the west side of College from Highway 1 down to the bingo parlor area. Mapes said for the reasons given by Chair Schmidt are the reasons why this project is improving the west side from Willox to the ditch. For the URA to take on the other, it is identified as a discrete project on a list of improvements to be made to North College Avenue. He believes we're going pretty far with what's being done on the west side of College due to this project. Chair Schmidt asked if there were any County regulations in existence to put pressure where needed. Mapes said he did not think so. Eric Bracke said he did a scoping meeting for the pedestrian level of service with former Transportation employee Denise Weston and she realized that all these improvements are a part of a very large picture and not something that can be placed on one developer. Schmidt said she recognizes this is beyond one developer but we are talking about $2.8 million dollars in URA money that is specifically for infrastructure needs. Public Input: Barry Lewis, 1630 30'hStreet, # 495 Boulder, is the owner of Country Club Corners (the property adjacent to Albertsons). He thanked the Board for being so thoughtful with all the "ins and outs" of this project and it impact on existing property owners. Country Club Corners is about 25,000 square feet. There's potential for 17 shop owners and currently there are 7. He asks for as much assistance as possible to maintain access and visibility. He thinks having this development is going to be good for this part of town and he certainly does not oppose it. He wants to point out that it is standard to have crosswalks with the roundabout and he's not sure how that's going to work in terms of safety. He would imagine it would stop or slow traffic. We also have large trucks coming out from the southeast portion of the site and travel west —how will they negotiate the roundabout. He's not aware of how the URA funding works but as he understands it, its $150,000 to put in a signal so having a signal at Bristlecone would be pretty easy to be part of this "high end" project. Also for coming in and out of the Albertson center at the main entry, there is a proposed '/ turn to come left out of that —he'd like to see that as a part of this project. Lewis said for the shop owners there, this will be a little more competition for them and he's asking to have additional signage for that property both on Willox and on College. It'd be great to have large marquee signs so the shop owners there can have their name on signage on both streets. Currently there is a small monument sign that doesn't really compare to what they have down the street at Cottonwood Plaza. What would his next steps be to apply for that? He thinks that only so much square footage is allowed. It seems contradictory to what's going on just south of this center. Lewis said he'd like to make sure they have access during construction coming off of both College and Willox. Finally, they really still do want access on the west entrance to Willox in the area of the median just west of the roundabout. To limit that is not really fair to the people in the center to the south. He wants to do whatever is the highest good for everybody and it would be great if they could have a stop sign there if that's going to serve the needs of everyone. Chair Schmidt said the Board did receive his letter with a few additional points. Steve Baker, 8244 Benson Court, is the manager owner of the Valero Station on the corner and he's very concerned about the access. As you know the headcount for the houses is out to the east. To Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 13 Stockover asked for the graphic that shows the design near Burger King and Bristlecone. He said it's quite a ways down and he thinks we'll be pushing them down there if they want to go south. Schmidt said that one day the whole Albertson's shopping center may redevelop into something else. If we do have another redevelopment there and it's a much higher intensity use, will the proposed roundabout handle a lot more traffic? Will another lane need to be added? Are we limiting ourselves when we do this type of a plan? Staff member Olson said the roundabout will actually have more capacity than a two way stop would have there. If the redevelopment would happen, this positions us for the future to handle additional traffic. Member Rollins said if this proposed design is approved tonight, she'd like to see the perpendicular parking very close to the north side of the roundabout reduced. She said you could have someone backing out about the same time someone may be seeking entrance/coming out of the roundabout. Mulhern said that's a point well taken. Mulhern said he appreciated the issues raised. He said if they were coming in with a new development today, they wouldn't be able to get a full movement intersection in that adjacency to North College. He'd like to point out that he understands the implications to the business to the south and having to move through the Albertson's parking lot to get to the intersections on the north side to get out. He noted what options they had with this proposal. Chair Schmidt said she understands as a frequent shopper there the shoppers' preferences for parking and for selecting routes when leaving the area. She said since we're using URA funds on this proposal, we need to effectively use that money to make sure there are safety features or other enhancements when we're shifting traffic that's fair to all the businesses. Chair Schmidt noted that in the Loveland outlet malls there are two roundabouts in close proximity; is that feasible in this situation? Olson said they can look at it but he suspects that it's getting too close to College Avenue to fully develop the turn lanes for the west bound approach to College. Chair Schmidt asked relative to the site plan is most of the outside dining areas/outside spaces specifically connected to a particular restaurant or will there be a public area for shoppers. Mulhern said what brings these centers to life is street furnishings throughout. In addition to the specific dining areas there would be various benches and ornamental lights that work along with the banners and planters to draw them to a place to "chill out" or sit with their children. In some cases, there is a need to tie to a quick serve or sit down restaurant to be maintained by them. Chair Schmidt asked where the parking corrals are located. Mulhern said they are not showing them on the plan, that would typically be handled by King Soopers and he would assume there'd be about eight placed throughout the parking lot. Chair Schmidt asked how wide was the entrance through the gateway located on the south west corner of the site. Mulhern said that's one of the wider parking aisles. Chair Schmidt asked what improvements will be made to College Avenue for pedestrians. Holsapple said there will be sidewalks and bike lanes on the west side of the development. Olt said that it would be part of the North College improvements to the Weld/Larimer ditch constructed by the City. Schmidt asked when will there be improvements north to the Highway 1 intersection. Staff member Mapes said that is unknown. He said they are currently working on a North College Improvements Funding Plan and that is not in the upper tiers of priority —it would be at such time as the properties north of the ditch develop or redevelop and would trigger annexation. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 12 and Vine is 130-132 feet. It's actually the exact same size as the roundabout being proposed. The inner diameter which includes the mountable curb area —at Taft and Vine it's 88 feet of diameter length and at College & Willox it's 80 feet of diameter length. Virata said we have smaller roundabout that take traffic in a similar fashion —the Pads at Harmony, the outer diameter is 100 feet (its 30 feet less). In terms of through movements they are pretty much the same for most roundabouts that have a single lane. They're in the 22-30 foot width. The one exception is the Horsetooth and Ziegler roundabout because you have the double left movement that has a diameter of 155 feet width with a double movement of up to 40 feet. Chair Schmidt is concerned about the level of traffic including through traffic on Willox. She thinks some drivers may not pay attention to the cues about who's going through and who's turning in. Virata said he's not a traffic engineer but he can say that we do have a major shopping center that was just recently built with a roundabout at Summit/Front Range development. That roundabout is pretty much the same size. Lowes is taking their service vehicles through that roundabout. There are some in -line shops with diagonal parking and a lot of through movement near the Council Tree Library. They have not heard of any complaints of its operation. Member Stockover said he didn't want to beat a dead horse but he's really concerned from a global perspective about the people leaving the Albertson's area and going south. If the west turn onto Willox is a level of service F; did you do that study assuming the median was shorter, the left was allowed, and the roundabout installed? Stockover said the roundabout should act as a traffic calming for the number of cars coming west daily. They should slow significantly before they go around the roundabout. That would make the left turn easier. Staff member Olson said the level of service analysis isn't so much about a safety analysis as it is a delay analysis. It really looks at the gaps (or breaks) in traffic on Willox for people to get out. Regardless of the speed of traffic, if gaps don't present themselves, people can't get out and the delays go up. While he understands Mr. Stockover's concerns, it's not necessarily going to have any effect on the level of service or the ability to get out as far as whether there are breaks in traffic. Olson said another thing about a roundabout is that rather than a "platoon" flow (group of cars) and then a break, they have a steady feed which makes it harder to find a gap. Even if left turns were allowed there with the roundabout, it would be a tough movement to make. Member Stockover asked about putting a signalized light on College at the main entrance to Albertson's. Olson said that would be difficult to do due to the intergovernmental agreement between the City and CDOT (Colorado Department of Transportation) related to the state highway's access control plan for College Avenue. It basically says where access can be. In order to change that it would take agreement from CDOT and it's unlikely they would agree to signalize a private driveway versus a public street. Schmidt says it does allow for a signal at Bristlecone does it not. Olson said correct. Schmidt asked what is required to bring that about. Olson said the volume of traffic (when "it meets warrants") on Bristlecone. Member Rollins asked if the traffic shifts around (two-way stop) could we do something similar to what we did with the pedestrian bridge —could the funding shift to the Bristlecone signal when warrants are met? Virata said transportation design improvements are being funded by the City Council approved/Urban Renewal Authority (URA) funded design. Chair Schmidt added there's an abbreviated median at Burger King so you can come out and make a left turn to head south on College. If you're really concerned about safety, that median needs improvements. You can see the marks on the road where people just wait for a break in traffic to head for the center lane and merge going south. She has a feeling that it'll be used more by people heading north from the Albertson lot. We may, however, need to make improvements to it to deter people from turning left. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 11 be any loss of property on Willox with the current plan. Schmidt asked if there would be any sidewalks or improvements on that corner. Holsapple said a curb and an 8 foot attached sidewalk will be installed so North College Motors (FCM) still has room to move and display cars on the Willox side. Holsapple said FCM has two entrances on Willox and they're staying. Member Lingle said he had the same concerns once he heard the circulation was not internal to the development —how will it work and will there be traffic conflicts. Another thing he'd like to hear from the City is with regards to future change in use of North College Motors —would it trigger full compliance with development standards. Would those access points on Willox be allowed to remain indefinitely? Joe Olson, City Traffic Engineer, said they would look at that when it came in for development and chances are those access points off of Willox would go away. They would want to have internal access and if there is no way to get internal access, they'd have to provide access to the site. Member Lingle said if the plat has been developed, is that north/south access road coming into the east of those two corner properties immediately adjacent to their property line? Will they be crossing private property that they don't own? Eric Holsapple said there is a strip of land (1100 square feet) and he's agreed to grant easement in the case that access is closed. Member Rollins asked Olson if his analysis relative to the roundabout. Olson said Bracke actually did an analysis without the roundabout and the left turns out were showing up as level of service °f' at both access points and there was a concern about impacting that existing business to that degree so that's where the roundabout idea came from. They looked at the analysis of that and it worked much better with the roundabout. Member Rollins asked if it was too close to College Avenue to signalize. Olson said he doesn't know if it's too close —it is close. It's probably just not that desirable to signalize it. They can get a lot more capacity with a roundabout there than they could with a signal. Member Rollins asked if it was Olson's recommendation that they extend that median west and block access to an existing development (Albertsons, Pobre Panchos and North College Motors). Olson said that's correct. Staff thought the median needs to be extended and make it a right-in/right-out. It was also very close to the intersection and there's potential for queues from the intersection backing up. (Any time you get the queues backing up into the intersection, you'll see a lot of safety hazards.) If it's a normal two-way stop intersection on the east access, Willox had priority over everything. The roundabout equalizes access where the side streets have equal priority to enter on a gap. Staff thought they were making things better for Albertsons by putting in the roundabout and having everybody use the roundabout rather than having to make a very difficult left turn at either of the two access points previously used. Rollins said If it remained as a two way stops with left turns out that it would be difficult to get out and people would go down to Bristlecone and have a more difficult time. Olson said that's why they thought it was important to improve the access on Willox for the Albertson part of the equation. Rollins said some people are very uncomfortable using roundabouts. Chair Schmidt asked how much does the traffic at this kind of intersection compare with Wal-Mart and Home Depot on Lemay. They have the same thing —the drives coming out high volume traffic coming out but we don't' have roundabouts or signals there. Are we saying this area is going to have more traffic than those two stores? Olson said he'd have to look but he believes there are about 7,000 cars a day so that is probably a higher volume than what we see between Wal-Mart and Home Depot. Chair Schmidt asked how the roundabout compares size wise to the roundabout at Taft Hill and Vine Drive. City Engineer Marc Virata said he pulled some information about the various roundabouts in town and the roundabout at Vine & Taft which is in the county. The outer diameter of the roundabout at Taft Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 10 Chair Schmidt said at the time it was given the designation of being a supermarket and not a big box, was Building C and the adjoining stores connected? Olt said the attached shops (including Building C) were a part of the plan when the interpretation was made. It was considered in its entirety to be a supermarket. Member Rollins asked for confirmation that to the south and west near the gas station where it is currently unrestricted would it become a right in/right out with this proposal. Member Stockover said if you're in the Albertson's parking lot and you want to go south, he thinks these changes will severely limit your abilities to go south onto College Avenue without going east first through the roundabout. Eric Bracke, ELB Engineering, LLC, said the recommendations of the traffic study were to reduce the "split around" and allow this to self regulate but because of the city's concern about stacking it was determined that the people going west would need could only turn right and go through the roundabout. They deemed the u-turn through the roundabout to be safer. Member Rollins asked for information on Pobre Panchos. Mulhern said the access from College to Pobre Panchos will be closed and access given internal to the site. Chair Schmidt asked for information on the number of vehicle trips —how does that compare to what it is presently. Bracke said they don't really deal too much with daily traffic but he believes it is in the 5,000 to 6,000 trip range. Schmidt asked if this project would generate about 7500 trips per day at this location. Bracke said yes, that would be a conservative estimate because there is another grocery store across the street. Trips will be divided. Schmidt said the traffic report said traffic would be coming from 2-3 miles around the site —will that be the source of 7500 trips per day? Will we have the right road adjustments to handle the traffic? Eric said for most grocery stores that the 2-3 mile radius is a pretty good estimate. People may also come from Wellington, from the country club area, and from west of College Avenue so the radius may be larger. Bracke said the estimate is conservative, is standard, and that's the way its' done. Member Stockover said if you're anticipating enough traffic going east on Willox that you need to put a median in there, wouldn't people wanting to go south go to Bristlecone and wouldn't it be more dangerous to turn left onto College there? Bracke said Bristlecone is scheduled to be a signalized intersection at some point in the future under the North College Access Control Plan. Chair Schmidt said the Board received letters from the owners of Country Club Corners and Albertsons expressing concerning about the flow of traffic. Schmidt asked if someone could say when the changes to Bristlecone would be made to alleviate these concerns especially during construction. Bracke suggested those questions would be better directed to Traffic Engineer Olson. Chair Schmidt asked Bracke to help her understand some of the level of service differences especially on College at Highway 1. Bracke said between the build and the no build alternative and starting at Willox and north College, a west bound turn lane is going to be added to that intersection for,the build alternative. When King Soopers goes in they're going to have to build that right turn lane. That changes the geometrics. He optimized the splits (the green time between all the movements) from the no build alternative of 100 second cycle length to a 110 second cycle length plus added the right turn lane so he went to a 110 second cycle length. Since he went to a 110 second cycle length at Willox, he also did the same at College and got a better result. Bracke said with adding the right lane and the additional traffic, he got a better operation of the signal with a 110 second cycle. He said the corridor is all going to have the same cycle lane so the level of service was improved. Chair Schmidt asked where the land was coming from for the right turn lane from Willox to College. Eric Holsapple said there's about 14 feet by 1100 feet on the west side (College Avenue side). There will not Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 9 The roundabout not only provides full movement and a traffic calming device, it also has landscaped amenities tying pedestrians to King Soopers and the shops south of them. Mulhem said the siting of the buildings put two major buildings at what would be the north and east end of the site and brings a cluster of buildings up to College in an urban manner that creates a gateway. There also a couple of best practices drainage amenities--bioswales that gathers drainage in the north end of the parking lot and filters it before sending it to the detention pond in the southeast wetlands. There are bioswales on the south side of the site that further filters water before it moves it into the detention pond. The architecture of the center seeks to embrace the turn of the century Victorian nature of old town Fort Collins in a red brick and buff brick combination. A third element is the introduction of five gabled roof elements that have been incorporated throughout the center to break from the norm of a typical retail development where you typically see only flat roofs. The design includes strong cornice elements in lintels, railings of the buildings through the use of awnings, steel lintel introductions and opportunities for dining in the gateway pad building development area. The gabled elements which serve as a signature feature for the first user off of Willox can also be found in the gateway entry, building two, and King Soopers. Mulhern thanked the Board for their time and said he's open to any questions. Member Carpenter noted in the neighborhood meeting notes on page3 there was a concern raised on 24 hour noise. The answer noted that King Soopers will control the times of day for truck and site deliveries. She asked what those times would be and how would that be enforced. Mulhern said that's a good question and he can't answer that —he doesn't have that information. He apologized and said they'd have to get back to the Board. Mulhern said he does know that King Soopers has to abide by state laws that have two different restrictions for noises for daytime and nighttime hours. They are very cognizant of that and work with their neighborhoods to make sure they operate within those restrictions. Chair Schmidt said that some neighbors said their houses will sit higher than King Soopers. She was wondering what type of screening they had for air conditioning and ventilation that sit on top of the buildings. Mulhern said the mobile home park has a rise up to the canal and is about 14 feet above the finished floor level of King Soopers. King Soopers finished parapet is approximately 24 to 26 feet so the top of that parapet is 10-12 feet above the elevations of the mobile homes. King Soopers tend to have two major pieces of equipment that sit over the loading dock area. He apologized and said he can't tell you how those units are going to be screened. Chair Schmidt wondered if you'd explain how the access from Grape Street will work and if anyone will be able to use the service road to drive around King Soopers. Mulhern said the Grape street entrance from College Avenue will be closed and access for the three residences there will be via a shared private drive. Mulhern said the service road is 25 feet so it does allow for two-way traffic and it's been setup anticipating truck will approach coming north on College Avenue onto the service road, back into the loading dock and go out via Willox back to College. There will be other deliveries servicing all the shops. Chair Schmidt asked how the pedestrians cross the roundabout. If someone wanted to cross to the shops to the south, how would they do that? Mulhern said the points of access at the roundabout are shown on the east, north, and west edge and there would be an additional pedestrian crossing on the south side. He showed a connection from the site onto sidewalks that would go to Albertsons. He said it's pretty standard roundabout pedestrian access. Chair Schmidt asked where the Willox bus stop would go. Holsapple said showed two stops ... one on College Avenue. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 8 Staff recommends approval with the following condition: The developer shall be responsible for providing a payment to the City in lieu of having to secure or obtain necessary street right-of-way and/or easements for a pedestrian/bicycle bridge, and having to participate in the cost of construction of such bridge, along the east side of the North College Avenue bridge crossing of the Larimer & Weld Canal. The payment shall not exceed $125,000.00 and must be paid prior to any building permits being issued for the North College Marketplace, Second Filing. The payment shall be used by the City to defray the cost of right-of- way acquisition, design and construction of said bridge at a later time. Board Questions: Member Lingle asked if access has been provided to the two corner private properties at College & Willox. Have the details been worked out and approved by those two private property owners? Olt said they have not considered that as a part of the PDP review. That would be a question better answered by the applicant. Applicant consultant Mike Mulhern said that North College Motors retains its access off of Willox. Pobre Panchos will have access internal to the development. Lingle said the ODP shows access to both properties from internal to the site. Holsapple of Loveland Commercial said as street plans advanced, the city has allowed Fort Collins Motors all the access they want off Willox. Director Dush asked Lingle if his concern was that if access points on Willox go away that an alternative access is provided. Lingle said his concern is when the project goes to final compliance plans, that it has to be in compliance with the PDP and it wouldn't be based on what they're seeing tonight. Lingle said he's fine with whatever note to file is needed so long as there's not a technical problem later. Member Lingle noted there are two loading docks on the east side of King Soopers. It looks look like both have a masonry screened wall. Is that correct? Olt said he received the color rendering of the plan this afternoon. Mulhern said with regard to screening, there are two screen walls. Chair Schmidt asked how high the brick screened walls would be. Mulhern said the estate brick walls would be 14 feet high. Chair Schmidt asked if the trees shown belong to the eastern part of the Wetlands ODP or will they be a part of the PDP. Also, at what point in time will they be planted. David Kasprzak of BHA Design said the randomly placed trees are a part of the 1 s` Filing Wetlands PDP along with a screened fence. Director Dush said the screened docks are at an angle and with the trees will not be one continuous walled look. Eric Holsapple said the trees will go in before phase 2. Applicant's Presentation: Mike Mulhern, President of the Mulhern Group and representing Loveland Commercial, said he'd like to reinforce the fact that site totaled 27 acres of which 10 acres will be preserved, enhanced as wetlands, and upon completion will be dedicated to the city. He said you don't see that every day. He said the wetlands will create a buffer to the Highland Manor Mobile Home Park to the northeast. The wetlands and the buildings will also create a separation from the activity and light in the parking lot. Mulhern described the project including access from a full service roundabout. That roundabout also provides access to Albertsons and a full -service drive on the east side of the site. Pedestrian connectivity includes a 17 foot wide walkway with landscaping that ties King Soopers to the pad buildings across the northern edge/entry. Pedestrian southern access is off of College Avenue next to gateway pad buildings and a 100 foot long trellis element with another 17 foot wide walkway. There are also pedestrian walks along the roundabout on the south side of Willox and a major connect ion along the shop space to the south of King Soopers. Individuals coming from the east on Willox can travel along the pedestrian southern entrance to the pad buildings at College Avenue. At the board's suggestion they've created two areas on both walkways where they have dedicated stripped walkways from the drive aisle. It creates an opportunity to use the walk and still access the rear of your car for unloading your items. Planning & Zoning Board May 21, 2009 Page 7 The Amended ODP contains land uses that are permitted in the CCN, Community Commercial — North College District, as well as 2 additional uses (drive-in restaurant and gasoline station) that were approved by the Planning & Zoning Board in august, 2008. Member Smith seconded the motion. The motion passed 6:0. Project: North College MarketPlace, Second Filing, Project Development Plan, # 43-08 Project Description: This is a request for a supermarket -anchored shopping center at the northeast corner of North College Avenue and East Willox Lane. The potential development site is approximately 18 acres in size and the supermarket building (King Soopers) would be about 123,000 square feet in size. Total building square footage in the center would be about 170,000 square feet (including in - line retail shops attached to King Soopers and 7 smaller building pad sites). The primary access to the site will be from North College Avenue and East Willox Lane. The property is in the CCN, Community Commercial North College Zoning District. In addition to the supermarket the shopping center will contain retail, restaurant (standard and fast food with & without drive-in), gasoline station, and other commercial uses permitted in the CCN District. Recommendation: Approval Hearina Testimonv. Written Comments and Other Evidence Staff presentation: City Planner Steve Olt reported this is a request for a supermarket -anchored shopping center at the northeast corner of North College Avenue and East Willox Lane. The primary access to the site will be from North College Avenue and East Willox Lane. In addition to the supermarket the shopping center will contain retail, restaurant (standard and fast food with & without drive-in), gasoline station, and other commercial uses permitted in the CCN District. There was a question asked at the work session about the stacking capability for vehicles on College. Looking at the geometry on the site plan it shows a left turn lane that flair out back up to a point where it reaches a width of 7 feet which would enable any vehicle to pull into the left turn lane. We're looking at about 175 feet so considering the average length of 16 feet (most RVs are 14-16 feet, cars are shorter than that, trucks will be 18-20 feet) and a five foot space between vehicles that 175 feet would accommodate between 7 and 9 vehicles. Olt provided a history of the development including an approval of addition of permitted uses in August 2008, an approval of the ODP in January 2009 (with the amended ODP approved tonight), an approval by an Administrative Office Type I North College Marketplace Wetlands PDP in February 2009, and the approval of two modification of standards for parking stall dimensions and relations of buildings to streets, walkways and parking in April 2009. The project complies with applicable requirements and meets standards in Article 4 (Division 4.19 of the LUC: Community Commercial — North College District), in Article 3 (LUC General Development Standards) and is in conformance with the ODP. Planning & Zoning Board May21, 2009 Page 2 next meeting. It just seems for that reason alone, why would people want to play a "game" played in that fashion? The second thing is often people do not get results. He can't tell you the number of people he's talked to about having gone to staff (e.g. Southwest Annexation) who feel their issues still have not been addressed. He can speak to issues about when they built Skyway to College— the city has never delivered on the commitments they made to them. They have also never enforced the standards they've placed on them. He said for the time you invest, you get very little back. It discourages many people from participating in the process. Chair Schmidt said the Board has discussed in work session how to make citizen participation better at both neighborhood meetings and hearings. That's one of the reasons they moved public input to give citizens a chance to hear the presentations by staff and the applicant as well as board member questions and staff or applicant answers. She understands his frustration and invites him to share any other ideas he might have with her or Current Planning Director Dush. They are always looking for ways to improve the process. She also wanted to speak on staffs behalf. Many City offices are short staffed and people are working as hard as they can to get things done as well as they can. Deputy City Attorney Eckman said in response to Mr. Schumm comments, the order of presentation is set out in the Land Use Code (LUC): staff report, applicant, staff response, public testimony, applicant response and finally staff response to public testimony. He said Mr. Schumm is correct the public is two steps before the end of the process. If desired, amendments to the text of the LUC can be made by the Board, the Director, or by City Council. Consent Agenda: Chair Schmidt asked members of the audience and the Board if they'd like to pull any items from the Consent Agenda. There were no requests to pull any items from the consent agenda. 1. Minutes from the April 16, 2009 Planning & Zoning Hearing Member Stockover moved to approve the consent agenda which includes: item # 1—April 16, 2009 Planning and Zoning Board Hearing minutes. Member Lingle seconded the motion. The motion was approved 6:0. Discussion Items: 2. North College MarketPlace, Amended Overall Development Plan, # 42-08 3. North College MarketPlace, Second Filing, Project Development Plan, #43-08 4. 2009 Annual Revisions, Clarifications and Additions to the Land Use Code Chair Schmidt called the meeting to order at 6:02 p.m. Roll Call: Carpenter, Lingle, Rollins, Schmidt, Smith, and Stockover Excused Absence: Campana Staff Present: Dush, Eckman, Olt, Wempe, Virata, Mapes, Shepard, Barnes, Comstock, D'Audney, Lukowski, and Sanchez -Sprague Agenda Review. Director Dush reviewed the Consent and Discussion agenda Citizen participation: Brian Schumm, 7203 Woodrow, wanted to speak to the issue of the Whitman Storage Facility and the issue of public comment (where he thinks there is a problem.) He did not particularly care for the outcome of the Whitman Storage Facility but he wanted to say that having observed the Board on that and other reviews, he appreciates their time and attention to detail. He believes the Board really makes a difference. He thinks they add rational thought to the land use planning process and he hopes they continue their good work. On the issue of the Whitman Storage Facility, as far as his return on investment he's accomplished what he believes the staff should have done. The 209 (Skyway) issues came up when it was in Larimer County but City staff failed to follow up on the opportunities they had available to them through the Intergovernmental Agreement with Larimer County. He feels staff stretched the whole thing out way too long. He thinks they were not very efficient and not very friendly to the applicant. He thinks the whole thing should have taken months instead of years. He believes, in part, that was due to staff "flip -flops" — changes of opinion, changes in staff. He thinks it would benefit the city to do a case study. He thinks an analysis of the Whitman case would provide some insights into what we see going on with Timnath and Riverwalk. He thinks we'll never really know what's going on because a lot of it is legal wrangling and is done behind closed doors. In regard to public comment, he thinks the system is broken. Obviously staff and the applicant get unlimited time to present and rebut. Three minutes is not adequate time for a citizen to discuss the issues. He's here because if you're interested you can make a difference. They're here because they couldn't get what they wanted from staff —there's a disagreement of some sort with staff and they want resolution. It's also a problem because the staff and the applicant get the last word. That is very much part of their strategy and they can dump on you at the very last minute and you cannot respond. Also, with many of the land use issues dealt with here, you cannot confer with your council representative because they are quasi-judicial. The staff knows that and "plays" that to their benefit. He thinks two specific problems that need to be addressed are logistics. When you ask why people aren't there it's because they're busy (have other commitments) and can't attend all meetings. Sometimes agendas change and you don't know an item's been changed until the very last minute. For instance, you go to a City Council meeting and you wait until 11 p.m. when it's tabled and goes to the