HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016CV1308 - FTN - FORT COLLINS V. CITY OF FORT COLLINS - 019D - EX D - FINAL REPORT1
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FORT COLLINS CITY COUNCIL MEETING
(Excerpt)
November 3, 2015
Agenda Item 7
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(There were proceedings had, not
transcribed herein.)
MAYOR TROXELL: This brings us to item
No. 7, which is the second reading of Ordinance
No. 134-2015, making certain amendments to Section
17-142 of the code of the City of Fort Collins related
to public nudity.
May I please see a show of hands of who
would like to comment on this tonight?
Please line up and -- and you'll have
two and a half minutes for comment. Please line up.
We have two microphones and -- and please -- and when
everybody is lined up, we can get started.
Okay. Please.
MR. HOAGLUND: Good evening, City
Council. My name is Aaron Hoaglund. I'm going to go
pretty fast through this because I was pretty sure we
would have 3 minutes. I'm here today to give you a
brief history of modesty and of being bare-chested in
America because I don't know if you know this: Before
1936, it was, in fact, illegal for men to be topless or
bare-chested.
In 1934, four men were cited on Coney
Island for a dollar each, and the governing body said
that there are many people who object to seeing so much
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of your bodies exposed. The first male bare chest in a
movie was Clark Gable in 1934, which, during the same
year, there were bare-chested women being burned on
crosses in similar movies.
In 1935, 42 men were arrested for being
bare-chested in New Jersey. And in 1936, they got the
right to be bare-chested.
In the fifties, the female navel was
still considered to be indecent.
In 1986, seven women were arrested in
Rochester, New York, which led to the New York Supreme
Court ruling that it was legal to be topless in 1992.
Judge Vito J. Titone said in his concurrence "One of
the most important purposes to be served by the Equal
Protection Clause of New York is to ensure that public
sensibilities grounded in prejudice and unexamined
stereotypes do not become enshrined as part of the
official policy of Government."
I wonder if you have examined the public
prejudices that have led to your ruling on Option 1 of
this ordinance.
The law that the women were said to have
been violating read, "A person is guilty of the petty
offense of exposure when he or she appears in a public
place in a manner that the private or intimate parts of
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his or her body are unclothed or exposed and that" --
this is the key -- "the private or intimate parts of a
female person shall include that portion of the breast
which is below the top of the areola." Basically,
exactly your language or very similar.
Judge Titone further stated the statute
thus creates a clear gender-based classification
triggering scrutiny under Equal Protection principles.
New York's Equal Protection clause reads
very similar to Colorado's. "No person shall be denied
the equal protection of the laws in this state or any
subdivision thereof." Like I said, Colorado is very
similar.
If you continue to criminalize women for
acting in the same manner as men, you can pretty well
expect to see a similar legal challenge as to what was
seen in New York.
Please stop being obsessed with breasts,
stop perpetuating unhealthy attitudes about breasts,
stop discriminating against women, and rectify this
problem here in Fort Collins without legal challenge.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. Next.
MR. ROEHRKASSE: Hello. My name is
Tyson Roehrkasse. I live in southeast Fort Collins,
zip code 80525. And I'm here as a concerned citizen
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and as a decent human being because I believe that
approving this ordinance is detrimental to the citizens
of Fort Collins.
And I have a few things about it that I
disagree with. And one is the language that we're
using in it where we're saying that 10 years of age
is -- is our cutoff for when a woman is not allowed to
go topless.
How did we arrive at that figure? Who
decided that after this point, suddenly, a women's
breasts becomes sexual objects when, before, they were
not?
This, I think, kind of highlights the
fact that we're kind of making this up as we go along.
That women's breasts are not inherently sexual.
And if we look at other cities and
countries around the world, we'll see there's a great
many that allow topless equality without any
detrimental side effects.
And if you look at our society at large
and in Fort Collins, there's a saying that says sex
sells. I mean, that's because our entertainment
industry capitalizes on it. Our product advertisements
capitalize on it. I mean, we have commercials for
burgers that are sold with women in lingerie.
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There's a lot of money to be made in
treating the female body as a sexual object instead of
as a human that needs respecting.
Another thing that I don't like about
this is that it excludes people who don't fall into the
strict male or female sections on the gender spectrum.
It's not a binary system. There's not only male and
female. There are people who are agender, who are
gender fluid, who are transgender, who don't fit into
these two sets, and this ordinance is completely
ignoring them.
And another part of this that bothers me
that's a very large discussion is that this supports an
attitude of rape culture, an attitude that is -- views
women as sexual objects and enables people to allow and
justify acts of sexual violence, saying that -- you'll
hear things like, Oh, well, she was dressed like that,
maybe she deserved it, was asking for it. That's all
part of treating women as a sexual object and not as a
human being.
So, to sum this up, I think that the
language in this ordinance is arbitrary, I believe that
it is unnecessarily sexist, and I think it supports
dangerous mindsets in regards to the treatment of
women, and I urge you to take more time to consider
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this.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. Next.
MS. SIX: Samantha Six, 80526. Tonight,
I have questions for you. Although I'm sure most of
which will receive not a direct answer by any means,
I'm still going to ask them.
Ray, do you consider yourself sexist
when you see women as inherently pornographic? A bare-
chested woman is considered pornographic because some
women happen to be on covers of pornographic magazines.
However, bare-chested men aren't thought of twice.
Bare-chested men also appear on pornographic magazines,
yet families don't disintegrate when they walk by. No
children cry for their mothers and question God's
existence. The man walks freely through his city.
You refer to women as pornographic and
have been accused of creating hostile work environments
for women. What makes you an adequate judge of gender
equality?
Wade, how do you feel, being the mayor
and face of the city that has been cited in dozens of
publications all over the world as being sexist and
blind to the real problems? Do you really still stand
on the It's On Us soapbox of pseudo-achievements?
Gino, you initiated the It's On Us
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campaign, while you sit here and continue to tell me
and every other woman that we are less than men while
you pose for your pictures for the It's On Us campaign
that promises education by addressing the root causes
of sexual violence, including cultural beliefs about
power and traditional gender roles.
I find this quote especially
illuminating of your double standards. Do you have
anything to say about the gender roles you're
continuing to perpetuate?
Kristin, the last meeting, you said that
we truly -- if we truly wanted to fight for equality,
we need to be more concerned with the wage gap and
women in politics.
Being a woman in politics, what have you
done to bring gender inequality to light? By telling
someone that your vision of attacking gender inequality
is more mature or sensible is misogyny at its best.
To all of you passing into law an
arbitrary age of when children are considered sexual
beings is disgusting. You question our motives and
yet, here you sit, making children as young as 10 years
old potential criminals.
Do not pass Option 1. This is sexist,
discrimination, and it's on you.
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MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. Next.
MS. HOAGLUND: I challenge you all on
the definition of breasts by citing it as the top of
the breast, because you can't censor cleavage --
MAYOR TROXELL: Brittany, please. We'll
give you full time, but please your name and --
MS. HOAGLUND: Oh, I'm sorry. Brittany
Hoaglund, 80521. My bad.
I challenge you all on the definition of
breasts by citing it as the top of the breast because
you can't censor cleavage. Men love cleavage. They
just hate of rest of us.
Women who are upside-down can
technically legally expose their under-boob.
Also, breasts sag. So does a female
with sagging breasts only have to wear a pastie because
the technical top of the breast covers the vast
majority of what is now being considered illegal,
including the bottom half of their areola.
So I ask you with this ordinance, who is
Fort Collins really censoring? And since there is such
an obvious and legal differentiation between
pornography and intent and behavior to arouse and
nudity being without cloth covering, tell me why you
all have such a vested interest in censoring women's
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chests when their bodies do no bodily harm to another
person?
A crime is not a crime when there is no
victim. And that has been held up in court.
I also want to let you know if you pass
this, there will be blood on your hands. Erasure
discrimination and antagonism kills people.
So the national suicide rate is
4.6 percent. Did you know 41 percent of trans and
gender-nonconforming people attempt suicide at least
once? Why? It's almost like when you ignore people
exist, they don't feel welcome to live. It's almost
like when you discriminate against them, others will,
too.
Did you know that intersex people are as
common as redheads? One in 2,000. Meaning there's 75
people in Fort Collins who you have actively erased,
thanks to your unanimous need to censor female bodies.
I also want to add by following through
with this ordinance, you will do the exact opposite of
what the It's On Us campaign is supposed to do: Reduce
sexual assault.
Did you all think that saying women's
bodies are inherently more pornographic than men would
reduce rape? Did you all think that by suggesting
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women's chests are commodities like marijuana and
alcohol, according to Martinez, would reduce
objectification? Did you all really understand that by
protecting minors from breasts, that you would end up
criminalizing minors as young as 10?
What happens to those minors anyway? Do
they go into the juvenile system? Arrested? Taken
from their homes? Or will the parents have to fork
over $250 and tell their child that people magically
started sexualizing her body on her 10th
birthday?
Rather than creating laws to stop
pedophiles, Fort Collins created laws to stop her
having the same rights as her brother.
I can't believe I have to tell you this,
but I am not more of a commodity than a man. I am not
more pornographic than a man. The law should treat me
equally to men. Anything less is sexist. Don't pass
this.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. Next.
MS. HANSON: Hi, everyone. I'm Lea
Hanson. I'm here to represent the City of Fort Collins
Womens Commission.
After listening to Council conversations
and public comment at the October 20th
City Council
meeting regarding the revisions to the public nudity
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ordinance, the City of Fort Collins Womens Commission
is compelled to provide you with a reiteration and
clarification of our recommendations for these changes.
Although the Womens Commission provided
a formal letter of recommendation to you prior to the
October 20th
meeting, we did not speak at the
meeting. Tonight, my intention is to verbalize our
stance to you, as well as to the public who might be
interested.
The Womens Commission maintains our
support for changing the public indecency ordinance of
the City of Fort Collins to update the language that
applies equal -- that applies equal responsibility
between and among genders. Therefore, Option 2.
We would like to clarify our
commission's stance on this issue is not a vote for
toplessness; rather a vote against any code, statute,
ordinance, or law that holds women to a different and,
in this case, stricter code of conduct than it holds
men.
While we remain in support of the
ordinance at its Option 2, we are open to contributing
to a dialogue that continues to explore the evolution
of the ordinance.
Thank you for your attention to this
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important issue. We are happy and eager to support
your efforts in creating inclusive and nonsexist
policies whenever we can.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you, Lea. Next.
MR. ELLIOTT: Tom Elliott, 80526. I
just want to remind you that about two weeks ago, there
was -- this room was filled with people, 98 percent of
whom favor Option 1. 45 of those people, most of whom
do not like to do public speaking, spoke up, giving
some really good, common-sense, rational reasons why
nudity should not be allowed.
And then I don't know how many, but I'm
assuming at least hundreds -- maybe more -- of emails
came your way. And so I just wanted to remind you of
that tonight, to unanimously vote again for Option 1.
Thanks.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you, very much.
Next.
MR. KNOBEL: Monty Knobel, citizen of
Fort Collins, 80524. Thank you for the opportunity for
all of us to speak. Rather like Tom, looking back to
two weeks ago, you heard a pretty good representation
of our community speak here. Both sides of the
argument.
I appreciate the fact again that -- that
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that was a -- allowed then and is now.
Councilmember Martinez, a little while
ago, spoke of the pride that we have in our community
for the many good things that we have: The many
services, the police protection, things going on in our
public schools and all those kinds of services that we
provide for our citizens that keep them safe and make
Fort Collins a wonderful place.
It seems like there's kind of a front
door and a back door -- two sides, possibly -- to
making our city a good city. One, as we've spent a lot
of time discussing this evening, is police services,
training opportunities, those kinds of things.
There have been many mentions of, in the
past, being a family-friendly city. This is a
destination city that people like to come to and bring
their revenues into this city. It's one of the top ten
cities by many standards.
There's kind of a back door to keeping
this reputation. That is that we don't relax and
provide opportunity for behaviors that, historically,
have been negative and which can allow and/or encourage
behaviors which lead to destructive and criminal
activity. Those eliminate revenues, they eliminate
people coming here, not to mention the much more
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negative impact on the personal lives of the community
and individuals through -- through their losses as
victims of sex crimes, which can be encouraged or
allowed by these decisions.
Council's vote on the issue is critical
for the general quality of life of Fort Collins
citizens, the impression of the rest of our nation and
neighbors, those who would come and live here, as well,
and the raising of families and the aforementioned
future leaders of our city and nation which were spoken
of earlier.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. Next.
MR. MARCHEL: Hi. My name is Trey
Marchel. I'm in Ray's district. I'll keep this brief,
and -- just thinking as far as publications and
comments from my fellow citizens, some of whom are
represented.
City Council's meeting showed the
misogynistic body-shaming values in Fort Collins. They
called us antifamily, they religion-shamed us. Shaming
is a new thing, I guess. They called us weak parents.
They were so crazy with their reasoning last night.
Fort Collins showed straight-up ugliness and ignorance.
They were hateful. It was an ugly free-for-all. And I
kind of took offense to what they said they need to
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educate Kristin Stephens about women's rights in the
21st century.
As far as other cities showing --
adopting toplessness, the City of Chicago actually
voted down this, as they said they were allowed to make
laws when differences are pretty obvious as far as
women's breasts and men's chests are concerned.
And then, something that stuck with me
the last time I spoke with you guys was the previous
statement of a lady who was afraid to lose her home.
And I found it more worrisome that we're dealing with
this problem than -- and almost -- that lady was
completely forgotten about.
So I really feel like we -- until we
have no more homelessness, then we can worry about
topless women in Fort Collins. So thank you.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. Next. There
we go.
MS. ROEHRKASSE: There we go. Good
evening, everybody. My name is Elise Roehrkasse. I'm
from 80525.
How do I say this? When I first heard
that -- I'm going to back up. I'm going to back up and
I'm going to quote your own Constitution, the Colorado
State Constitution, which states in Article II, Section
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29, equality of rights under the law shall not be
denied or abridged by the State of Colorado or any of
its political divisions on account of sex.
If you pass this ordinance, you're going
up -- it's conflicted. It doesn't -- you can't pass
this and then -- oh. Okay. I'm going to breathe for a
moment.
If you pass this law or this ordinance,
you are actively going up against your own State
Constitution, as well as actively going up against the
United States Constitution, which states in the 14th
Amendment, which I'm sure all of you should know --
every single one of you sitting here should know what
it says -- no state shall make or enforce any law which
shall abridge the privileges or immunities of the
citizens of the United States or deny any person within
its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
You have a lawsuit on your hands -- a
huge one -- if you pass this. It's sexist. It's
discriminatory. And it goes up against your own
freaking laws that you all have been elected to uphold
by the people.
Regardless of a public that is full of
fear and full of shame and full of religion --
regardless of all of that, you have a legal
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responsibility to uphold your own laws. That alone is
huge and you need to keep that in mind regarding
passing this.
The other thing I'd like to say is that
women are not commodities. My breasts are not
commodities. The fact that it is okay for us to have
advertisements on television and our local storefronts
that show this much cleavage -- that that's fine and
yet, the moment my nipple shows, suddenly, it's -- it's
illegal, that doesn't make any sense.
The last thing I'd like to say regarding
the family-friendly argument, is it really family-
friendly if you're promoting -- actively promoting laws
that discriminate against half of your population?
That's your family. Those are your daughters and your
wives and that's you, Kristin. That is you. Every
single one of you, those are your families.
This is the kind of law that you want to
pass? I don't think so. Don't pass it. Thank you.
MAYOR TROXELL: Thank you. I'll bring
it back to Council. Any comments?
A motion?
MAYOR PRO TEM HORAK: Oh, yeah.
MAYOR TROXELL: Jerry?
MAYOR PRO TEM HORAK: Yes. I move the
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adoption of Ordinance 134, making certain amendments to
Section 17-142 of the code of City of Fort Collins
related to public nudity.
COUNCILPERSON MARTINEZ: I second.
MAYOR TROXELL: Motion seconded. Any
additional comments? Final comments?
I would just say this is the second
reading of this ordinance. I appreciated the people
that spoke before us tonight. You know, I'd just
reiterate, you know, on first reading, the -- as a
couple of the speakers pointed out about the -- the
number of people that spoke at first reading. I
appreciated Lea coming tonight and speaking on behalf
of the Womens Commission and providing that and -- and
the other speakers here tonight.
You know, I think, as I said last time,
our -- our city -- our citizens spoke loud and clear
with respect to this particular ordinance, and I think
that's where we have -- that's the one that's -- the
motion before us, and I'll be supporting it. Ross?
COUNCILPERSON CUNNIFF: Thanks, Mayor.
I really don't intend to respond to all the discussion
that we had this evening, but just wanted to point out
again that we are making some important changes with
respect to nursing mothers, clarifying our intent with
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respect to where we're going with this.
I understand the logic that this is
brought up with respect to the language in the
Constitution. There is a difference of opinion,
though, on what that actually applies to with respect
to this particular ordinance.
As I said, I understand the logic, but
we really can't get too far ahead of our community at
City Council or they will turn around and just -- I
mean, the war -- the -- I think it's up to the
community, if they want to override us, to go one way
or another. At this point, it seems to me that the
community has spoken, and so I support it as we have it
here.
MAYOR TROXELL: Anybody else? Okay.
Jerry?
MAYOR PRO TEM HORAK: So the part about
whether it's unconstitutional or not, the courts can
determine that and who would ever like to bring
something forward or if you want to do, as Ross is
pointing out, a referendum, you can also do that. You
have so much time to get that done after -- to file
something with the City Clerk if you want this
ordinance to go to a vote or initiate another ordinance
which would override this particular ordinance.
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CARPENTER REPORTING, INC.
(303)752-1200
But at any time and over the last any
number of years, the previous ordinance could have been
ruled unconstitutional, though no one brought up
anything about it. So it's up to the people if they
would like to change something.
MAYOR TROXELL: Kristin?
COUNCILPERSON STEPHENS: Thank you,
Mayor. I want to thank everybody who spoke tonight.
There's, obviously, a lot of passion around this issue,
and I appreciate the member of the Womens Commission
coming forward and that they want to contribute to this
dialogue.
My belief is that this dialogue will
probably continue and -- and may evolve at some point,
but, right now, the community support is around
supporting Option 1, and so I'll be supporting Option
1.
MAYOR TROXELL: Other comments?
Roll call, please.
CITY CLERK: Campana?
COUNCILPERSON CAMPANA: Yes.
CITY CLERK: Stephens?
COUNCILPERSON STEPHENS: Yes.
CITY CLERK: Cunniff?
COUNCILPERSON CUNNIFF: Yes.
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CARPENTER REPORTING, INC.
(303)752-1200
CITY CLERK: Horak?
MAYOR PRO TEM HORAK: Yes.
CITY CLERK: Troxell?
MAYOR TROXELL: Yes.
CITY CLERK: Martinez?
COUNCILPERSON MARTINEZ: Yes.
CITY CLERK: Overbeck?
COUNCILPERSON OVERBECK: Yes.
MAYOR TROXELL: It passes.
(There were further proceedings had, not
transcribed herein.)
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CARPENTER REPORTING, INC.
(303)752-1200
C E R T I F I C A T E
STATE OF COLORADO )
) ss
COUNTY OF ARAPAHOE )
I, Bonnie Carpenter, do hereby certify
that the above recorded proceedings were reduced to
typewritten form under my supervision;
That the foregoing is a true and
correct transcript of the recording then and
there taken done to the best of my ability under the
circumstances;
That I am not kin or in anywise
associated with any of the parties to said cause of
action or their counsel and that I am not interested
in the event thereof;
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
set my hand and seal this _____ day of ____________,
2016.
_____________________________
Bonnie Carpenter
12510 East Iliff
Suite 120
Aurora, CO 80014
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