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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMINUTES-09/16/1971-RegularSeptember 16, 1971 MINUTES OF !FETING September 16, 1971 The City Council of the City of Fort Collins met in regular sessioA at 1:30 P.M. in the Council Chambers of the Municipal Building on Thursday, September 16, 1971. Present Councilmen Carson, Lopez, Councilwoman Preble, Councilmen Peterson and Fead. Also present: Tom Coffey, City Manager Arthur E. Harch, City Attorney Charles Liquin, Director of Public Works Mayor Carson presided. DISPENSING OF MINUTES Motion wan made by Councilman Lopez, seconded by Councilwoman Preble, that the reading of the minutes of September 9, 1971, be dispensed with. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 2A COMMENDATION TO: Detective William S. Bates September 10, 1971 FROM: Ralph M. Smith, Chief of Police I wish to commend Officer William S. Bates, who is presently assigned to the Narcotics Division for the following: Unusual attention to duty. WHEREAS, it is realized that the great bulk of police Mork is done routinely by good policemen, let it be known that the above -named officer displayed initiative and alertness decidedly in excess of the norm in this particular instance. Fact situation: Because of your untiring effort, your devotion to duty and your ability Lo accomplish tasks efficiently and accurately, a tremendous amount of narcotics and dangerous drugs have been removed from the streets of Fort Collins. In addition to removing drugs from the streets, good arrests were made and from those arrests convictions did emanate. Fort Collins is a better place in which to live and raise a family because of the enthusiasm with which you applied yourself to the task at hand. Congratulations on a job well done! /s/ Ralph Smith Chief of Police It was stated that Detective Bates had worked dBnr three years in the narcotics division, had made several hundred arrests and lost only,case, that he had been taken off of that because his life was in danger. Councilman Lonez said the public does not realize that this i s a live saving effort onthe part of the patrolman. Mayor Carson commended Detective Bates for his work on drugs. AGENDA ITEM 3A ORDINANCE NO. SO, 1971 BEING AN ORDINANCE ANNEXLNG CERTIAM TERRITORY TO THE CITY OF FORT COLLINS Motion was made by Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilman Fead, that Ordinance No. 50, 1971, be adopted. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 3B ORDINANCE NO. 51, 1971 BEING AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 1G OF THE CODE OF OPD707S OF THE CITY Or FORT COLLINS, COLORADO, 1968 AS A IENOEO, CO;i00L1 (NOON AS THE LONI06 04010 ;CE AMO CLASSIFYING FOR Z( PURPOSES THE PROPERIY INLLUK0 IN THE SPENCER FIFTH ANNENA110N TC TFECIiY OF For CULL? r' COLn�1i;1 KaLion was made by Ccun;ilvan Lopez, Seconlod by Councilwoman Pr0n , that Ordinance No, 91, 1971, he adopted. Upon a roll call all of in a r .._,.�•... j'S i11 the Council .'d the f �j',^a+-' ,. September 16, 1971 AGENDA ITEM 3C ORDINANCE f10. 52, 1971 BEING AN ORDINANCE ANENDTNIG CHAPTER 19 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF FORT COLLINIS, COLORADO, 1953, AS AHENDED, COi,411ONLY KNOl;N AS THE ZONING ORDTNAidCF ANn CI ASSiFMIG FOR ZONING PURPOSES THE PROPERTY INCLUDED III THE STRACHAN SECOidD ANNEXATIO11I TO THE CITY OF FORT COLLINS, COLORADO Iiotion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilman Peterson, that Ordinance No. 52, 1971, be adopted. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA. ITEM 4A OPDINANCE NO. 56, 1971 BEING AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 19 OF THE CODE OF ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF FORT COLLINS, COLONADO, 1958, AS X.IENI)ED, COi•ii40NLY KNOWN AS THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND CLASSIFYING FOP, ZONING PURPOSES THE PROPERTY INCLUDED IN THE NORTH COLLEGE MOBILE PLAZA ANNEXATION TO THE CITY OF FORT COLLINS, COLOi1ADO. Councilman Lopez asked about this zoning, if there was a private street to accommodate fire engines and if the streets are kept up to standard, stating that the streets should be wide enough to accompany fire engines and emergency vehicles, even with cars parked there. The Director of Public I-!orks, Charles Liquin, stated that the streets are kept up to standard. Councilman Lopez said thai in 40 years this area can become a slum area. Don Reynolds, the Director of Planning, stated that if streets are installed in a subdivision, the streets are dedicated as public streets, but this is all under one ownershia�. Councilman Lopez again reiterated th,:,t vie are building slums for the future, that it`/up to the people to keep and maintain the streets and when they do not, they are blamed. Mayor Carson said that if all access streets are internal the residents have to maintain it and suggested that if the residents do not maintain the streets that the City could come and put then in order- and charge this to them. Hr. Reynolds said they were discouraging private streets. The City Hanager stated that the owner of the town houses in Parkwood maintain the streets, that a covenant covers this. Councilman Fead said that the Council deeds to get a lay -out of the Mobile Home plan the same as a subdivision plat, and askedR he Nobile Homes parrs were requir^d to pay a park land fee. Mr. R'e/nolCs stated that a park land fee is charged to every pad, no matter how many homes are on their. Mr. Liquin said the City requires a 6" water main from the City system to the hydrant and a 8" sewor tap, that any 6" water tap is inspect:'`= by the Water Department and anything under 6" is inspected by the Building Inspector's office, i:hat every part: has to have a back flop; system. He also said there was a difference in Trailer Parks and Mobile. Parks, in that Trailer Parks did not have sewer traps and Nobile Hone Parks do. Councilman Lopez suggested a plat be shorn of the layout, utilities, width of streets, etc. After discussion, motion was made by Councilman Fead, wilo stated he would be locking for:."arcl to inspecting the plans when presented and that Ordinance No. 52 be considered favorably on first reading and presented for final passage on the 7th day of Oct cber, 1971. This was seconded by Cou:icilman Peterson. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 5B CITY ENGINEER'S REPORT ON SANITARY SE'I!ER INPROVEMENT DISTRICT P.O. 58 TO: Tom Coffc;', City 7.lanager THRU: Charles Liquin, Director of Public Works FROM: Roy A. Bina.man, City Engineer RE: Sanitary Sewer Imurovement District No. 58 The City ilas received one petition requesting sanitary sewer which affects five percent of the total area of the proposed iinprovement district. It i.s,therefore, recommended that the p:'operties abutting the follolging streets and alley be iiicluded in Sanitary Seger Inicrovement District No. 5.9 as provicicai for in Chanter 15 of the Code of Ordinance as anrandeci: Last side of Grandview i "'cillie from Mountain Avenu^_ to 1.:�Porte Av?nue Frey A`.'C:n!ie fro Di moulitaiil iwt:nue to LaPorte Avenue 1\10rt11 silo of t:o'_artai.n Avonue from Cr::nciview Avenue to a poir•.t 260 `c.dt e;ic, n`" Frey Aveuuc South 180 feet of the north 112 of Lot 11 in Block 2 of Frey Subdivi- sion, said property abuts the alley located east of Frey Avenue between Nbuntain Avenue and LaPorte Avenue It is recommended that the benefited area for assessment purposes be limited to 180 feet of property depth. The cost estimate for the District is as follows: Assessable area: 338,257 sq.ft. Total estimated construction cost: $24,624.00 Estimated construction cost per square foot of assessable area: $0.07280 per sq.ft. Estimated cost per square foot of assessable area (including 17%): $0.08517 per sq.ft. Estimated City expense: None In order to proceed with the improvement district, it is necessary for the City Council to adopt the plans, specifications, the cost estimates for the district, and to publish the notice of the district. It is also necessary to provide for the administrative expenses of processing the district. The following axe recommended percentages of the total 'cost to cover each portion of the expenses: Engineering: 6% Legal & Publications: 2% Interest during Construction: 4% Collection and Certification to County: 5% TOTAL: 17% In addition, the Council must set forth the period over which the cost of the improvement may be paid and the rate of interest which will be carried with the installments. It is recommended that the install- ments be spread over ten years with an interest charge of 6 percent per annum. Respectfully submitted, ( l.. ROY As AingmMi City Engineer the City Attorney stated that under the new provision, that it is necessary to only have one resolution. Motion was made by Councilman Peterson, seconded by Councilvmman Preble, that this report be approved. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council.voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 51 & W combined RESOLUTION! OF TEE COUNCIL OF TMI CI_TT 07 FWT COLLINS ACCEPTING PETITIONS FOR TrL 0"_`•3:1'ION 07 A SPECIAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT, SETTING FORTH TIE NATURE AND LOCATION OF THE I M PROV0,7-, NTS TO .2 VAPE, THE AREA TO 3E ASSES" ED FOR THE SAME, AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PREPARE AND PR°SENT TO THE CITY CCUNCIL THE NECESSARY IN701,QATION FOR 7EI FOR-KATION OF SAID DISTRICT W10AS, the ownocs of more than One per cent (1%) of the property t0 be assessed for the saTp have patitioned the City Council undQr 140 provisioniOF C5,pter sJ of the We _ 000ancos of the C1.)' cf Fort Collins, Colorado, 033,as anon&ed, r __Fit_.ng to local public 35 Sehbada2L_ 16, improvements, for the organization of the Permanent improvement district for tic purpose of installing sanitary sewer lines; and MIEREAS, the City Engineer has reported to the City Council, and the City Council hereby finds, that the petitions are in compliance with the provisions of the ordinances of the City of Fort Collins, that the owners of the required area of property to be assessed have properly and legally signed such petitions and that the area to be benefited by the proposed improvements is the area to be assessed for improvements in the district as hereafter described. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY T.HE COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF FORT COLLINS: Section 1.. That the petitions be and the same hereby are received and approved. Section 2. That the nature of the improvements to be made is the installation Of sanitary sewer lines Within the proposed district, such improvements to be installed so as to serve the properties in the district. Section. 3 That the area to be assessed for such improvements is Situate in the City of Fort Collins, State or Colorado, and is doscribed as follows: Oe properties abutting the following streets from the street line to a dopth of _.'•o feet from sal(: street line, to -Wit: TheEast side of Grandview Avenue from Mountain Avenue to LaPorte Avenue; Frey Avenue (on both sides) from Mountain Avenue to LaPorte Avenue; the North side of Mountain Avenue from Grandview Avenue to a point 260 feet East of the East side of Frey Avenue; Also, the South 180 feet of the North one-half of Lot 11, Block 2 of Prey Subdivision in the City of Fort Collins, said district is more specifically described as follows: Commencing at the intersection of the centerline of LaPorte Avenue and the east line of Grandview Avenue, thence southerly along the east line of Grandview Avenue 30.00 feet to the true point of oeginning; thence continuing southerly along the east line of Grandview Avenuo 656.30 feet, to the northerly line of Mountain Avenue, thence easterly along the north line of Mount- ain, Avenue 670.00 feet, thence northerly and parallel to the east line of Grandview Avenue 360.00 feet, thence westerly and paral'ol to the north Line of ;Mountain Avenue 88.00 feet, northerly and parallel to the thence east line of Grandview Avenue 70.00 feet, thence easterly and naralle! to the north line of Mountain Avenue 8.00 foe: thence northerly and parallel ' to the east line Of Grandview Avenue S^ do feet thence westerly and Parallel to the north line of Nb uRtain Avenue 18.00 feet thence .•lOrt�:C r!y � ��n r;rl ' and Ic1 to to the 00st line of Grandview Avcn.CC. 1�0, (�7 feet to the sOu tl line of LaPorte Avenue, thence ,._ ""y ..' "n 0 scvlh line Of Wort:e Avenue 542,00 feet to 150 __.. of aC Ln'1 September 16, 197 Section 4. The City Engineer is hereby directed to prepare and present to the City Council the following: A. Prolininary plans and specifications of the improvements proposed. 3. An estimate: of the total cost of said improvements including the cost Of constructing the same, engineering, legal and advertising costs, interestduring construction and until assessemants are made by ordinance against the properties bensfi.ted, and other incidental costs. C. A map of the district to be assessed for the costs of the improvements. Section 5. That the improvement district to be formed pursuant hereto shall be designated as Sanitary Sewer Improvement District No. 58. Passed and adopted at a regular meeting of the City Council held this 16th day of September, A.D. 1971. AITHST: City C111§ Motion was made by Councilwoman Preble, seconded by Councilman Lopez, that this resolution be adopted. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmdtive. AGENDA ITEM 6A RIDS - 54 TRANSFORMERS, VARIOUS KVA - LIGHT & POWER_ DWRTMENT Bids have been received and evaluated covering consideration for purchase of: 54 Transformers of various KVA ratings. A summary of the bids are as follows: A complete tally sheet is attached. UANTIi'Y PRICE EXTENSION AWARD Item A 10 KVA 10 $168.00 $1,680.00 Allis Chalmers Item B 25 KVA 20 238.00 4,760.00 A.B.Chance Item C 25 KVA 10 252.00 2,520.00 Allis Chalmers 1 Item D 50 KVA 10 374.00 3,740.00 A•B.Chance Item E 100 KVA 4 651.00 2,604.00 A•B-Chance A synopsis of the bids would indicate a total award to Allis Chalmers in 11 the amount of $4,200.00 and a total award to A. B. Chance of $11,104.00. a A cost saving of $5,356.00 was achieved through using the bid method of purchasing. Nr. John St: John, Associate Electrical Engineer, has evaluated the bids and all specifications have been met by the low bidder'. A ,-2y of Mr. St. John's recor.:a:endation is attached. 3 tl 0 September 16_, 1971 Respectfully submitted, /s/ E. M. Kuppinger Purchasing Agent After discussion, motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilman Peterson, that. +0 rccomTcrdation of the PurchWno Agent be annrnvpH Hnnn n roll rpll . all mpmberq & the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 6B BIDS - 7 POWER CIRCUIT BREAKERS Bids have been received and evaluated covering consideration for purchase of Seven (7) 115 KV Power Circuit Breakers. It should be noted that this bid is the result of a joint purchase agree- ment between the Cities of Fort Collins, Loveland and Longmont, and thougl; sever, breakers were bid it is considered only necessary for Council action to be for the one which is being purchased by the City of Fort Collins. Listed is a breakdown of the bids by City: A complete tally sheet is attached. CITY RUAN11TY PRICE EA. EXTENSION Fort Collins 1 122,776 ' $22,776 Loveland 3 22,776 68,328 Longmont 3 21,900 65,700 Mr. Tim Sagen, Electrical Engineer for the City of Fort Collins and R. W. Beckj'and Associates, Consulting Engineers for the project have evaluated the bids and a copy of their respective evaluations is attached. All specifications have been met by McGraw Edison Compan. the low bidder, in the <.vount of $156,804.00. May.it be reiterated that $22,776 is the City of Fort Collins' portion of this purchase and that Council action is being requested .fez the $22,776 amount. It is of note that the joint purchase of the Circuit Breakers have resulted in a cost savings of $5,224 for Fort Collins, $15,672 for Loveland. and $12,000 for the City of Longmont. Cost savings are calculated as the KfOrencJ between the on Zineering alingne and the actual bid received. Respectfully submi i K K. Kuppinger Purchasing; Agont I 0 September 16,_1971 After discussion, motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilman Peterson, that the recommendation of the Purchasing Argent be approved. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 6C BIDS - THREE PHASE TRAMSFORMERS - LIGHT & POWER DEPARTMENT Bids have been received and evaluated covering consideration for purchase of: Two (2) Three Phase Pad Style Transformers. A summary of the bids are as follows: QUAINITITY EACH EXTENSION RTE Corporation . 2 $2,250.00 $4,500.00 Niagra Corporation 2 2,400.00 4,800.00. McGraw Edison 2 3,2S3.00 6,506.00 Delta Star Corporation 2 2,S3S.00 S,070.00 A cost savings of $2,006.00 was achieved through using- the bid method of purchasing. Mr. Tim Sagcn, Electrical Engineer has evaluated the bids and all specifications have been met by the Inv bidder. P, copy of his rcco - mendation is attached. Respectfully submitted, V- �../ E. M. Kuppinger Purchasing Agent Motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilwoman Preble, that the recommendation of the Purchasing Agent be approved. Upon, a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 6D BID - AFTER -HOUR DEPOSITORY ---FINANCE DEPARTMENT A summary of the bids are as follows: Mosler Diebold, Inc $ 1,308.00 2,595.00 Mr. Charlie Cain, Director of Finance, has evaluated the bids and specifications have not been met by the low bidder. The recommendation is that Diebold, Inc. (who met specifications) be awarded the contract in the amount of $2,595.00. Respectfully suhmitted, E. M. Kunpincer- Purchasing Agent After discussion motion , � t10' _, mcG.. by GCU!1C 11k:'Oilk, rl P'ret)Ic^, seconded by G0u Yl;,ili^a ri Looe:.. tl'at tha recoviendation of the Purchasing Agent h2 approved. Upon a roll call, all _ 17 the Council voted in the affirmative. 39 September 16, 1971 AGENDA ITEM 7A REPORT FP,Ohi PLANNING AND ZOiViNG BOARD: Consider, replat of lots 10 and 11, Block 1, Edora Acres First Filing involving approximately n.3a acme with lili'•1, i.rn•r nuns"ir.v iliiltiole Family zoning. Locaticn: Bounded by Edora Park on the south, Edora Road on the north, and approximately 1000 feet east of Welch Street. Developer: Deines Homes, Inc; Haurice L. Deines, President Recommendations: The Planning and Zoning Board considered this item at its September 13, 1971, meeting and recommends approval. It was noted that asphalt has replaced the green area in a Dei,es Development in the west part of town, and it was tire consensus of opinion of the Council that concrete in front yards be eliminated to retain the beauty of Fort Collins. After discussion, motion was made by Coun- cilman Lopez, seconded by Councilman Fead, that this replat be approved. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 7B PLANNING & Z_ONING BOARD REPORT Consider resubdivision of the first replat of a part of Tract "F" of Southmoore Village Second Filing. Location: South of Swallow Road, west of Stover Street, and east of Stanford Road. Developer: Balser, Jones & Crow Co. Recommendation: The Planning and Zor.ing Board considered this item at its September 13, 1971, meeting and recommends approval. Don Reynolds, the Planning Director, explained that there had been a change of plans, that the developer, was mixing the townhouses and patio houses to cut down the cost to the buyer, and that he thought this �.ras a good development. After discussion,motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilman Lopez, that this resubdivision be approved. Upor a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA ITEM 7C [Manning & Zoning Report Consider plat of Bartran Apartments involving approximately 4.59 acres with RP, Planned Residential zoning. Location: Southwest of the intersectio^ of West Elizabeth Street and Constitution Avenue. Developer: 5artran Homes, Inc. Recommendation: The Planning and Zoning Board considered this item at its August 5, 1971 meeting and recommends approval. Councilman Fead asked if there were any other apartments in RP zone. Don Reynolds showed the Unit Development plans and stated this will remain in one ov;nership and was requiring ease- ments for emergency veh'.cles. Motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilman Lopez, that this be approved. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. AGENDA I T FNI 7D PLANNING & ZONING -BOARDREPORT Consider Unit Development Plan of Bartran Apartments involving approximately 4.59 acres with RP, Planned Residential zoning. Location: Southwest of the intersection of West Elizabeth Street and Constitution Avenue. Developer: Bartran Homes, Inc. Recoinlr.endation: Ti)e Planning and Zoning Board considered this item at its Au-,ust 5, 1971, meeting and reco7,111Pnds apm,nvel . 40 _ September 16, 1971_ Motion was made by Councilman Lopez, seconded by Councilwoman Preble, that this plan be approved. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirmative. Mr. Gill Raddatz was present stating that he thought the Council acted hastely regarding the LaKlrrg off parking on both sides of time street on K tKln Street, saying that the'rowe.re annroximatel 3,000 people riding bicycles and walking to school, that it is not the car problem but the pedestrian and bicycle, and asked wiry not provide a lane for this. He also stated that something should done about the intersection of Pitkin and Stover Street, that bicycles cannot be seen there as it is wide and curved. Mayor Carson said there will be a sidewalk around the high school, that they had considerable discussion with the Traffic Engineer regarding Pitkin Street, that there were bicycle lanes on Edward Street and a lane being put in now at Mathews Street. He suggested that the school provide off-street parking, that Pitkin street is not wide enough to allow for bicycle lanes and yet allow cars to travel on that street. The City Manager stated it was a 4-lane highvey, that most people travel on the inside lane, that they have put stop signs to slow the traffic and that it is working, he also said that a walk lane had been painted on the intersection of Stover and Pitkin He contratulated the people for their cooperation in not paring on Pitkin Street. Mr. Radditz said it would have been better with parking taken off just on the south side of Pitkin Street stating that people do not have sufficient parking space if they have company. The City Manager said that every horse has curb cuts or alleys for parking. Councilman Fead suggested putting bicycle lanes on Pitkin as the lanes on Eduard Street were not too good because it dead ends at College and it fifficult for the University people to get across College Avenue and with College starting that we will see a great deal more bicycle traffic. The City Manager said that widening Pitkin was discussed but would have to take out a lot of trees, Councilman Lopez stated that there is a lot of bicycle traffic on Pitkin Street: and to give some serious thought to lanes to the University, that the street needs to be resur- faced. The City Attorney reported that the Chuck Hoffman case had taken another step forward, that it had been taken to the Court of Appeals and looked favorable that it would be settled soon. The City Manager stated that the Charter provides that the budget he presented on or before the first Monday in October and that a hearing be held within 10 clays of presentation, and that the budget be adopted on or before the last day of October, and in order to accomplish this, he recommended that the meeting of Thursday, September 23, be adjourned to September 30, 1971, at which time he would officially present the budget, and further recommended that the budget be set for hearing Thursday, October 7, 1971. Motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by Councilman Lopez, that this recommendation be approved. Upon a roll call, all members voted in the affirmative. Councilman Fead commended KCOL on the marathon to raise money for CODE, and that they should be given a vote of thanks for raising $8,100. Councilwoman Preble seconded this commendation. Councilman Lopez said they were to be commended because it was a low pressure thing and that the people gave voluntarily and not because they felt they had to, that Fort Collins is a good town to live in and that if something is given enough publicity, that people will respond. Mayor Carson stated it was his feeling that this money was more meaningful and effective than the City giving $7,500. Councilman Lopez asked if K-Wart had put in a sprinkler system for watering tnose beautiful bushes as presented in the plat. Don Royne'.ds, the Planning Director, stated that a 13 foot strip was planned for a green area but that it had been reduced to 9 feet because of side- walk, and Vat there would be a 15 foot planting strip on Drake and a sprinkler system. Mayor Carson stated that Nable Preble and Jean Locke had resigned from the Senior Citizens Commission and asked that the recommendation of Mrs. David Atkinson and Jim Deitloff for replacenents be aopcoved. Notion was made by Councilman Lopez, seconded by Councilman Peterson, that this recommendation be received eived and approved. Upon a roll call, oil members Of the Council voted in the affirmative. Mayor Carson stated he had accepted a requnst from the Community Action Committee for .n appointment and asked the Council's approval of his recommendation of Nike DiTillio as a representative of this program, notion was grade by Councilman Lopez, seconded by Councilwoman Preble, that this appointment be approved. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council voted in the affirr& 02 . ADJOURNMENT Motion was made by Councilman Fead, seconded by adjourn. Upon a roll call, all members of the Council adjourned. ATTEST: ? Councilman Pe erson, that the Council i Council vo'.d in the affirmative and the -.- -- -