HomeMy WebLinkAboutCOUNCIL - AGENDA ITEM - 09/02/2003 - CONSIDERATION OF THE APPEAL OF THE JULY 14, 2003, AGENDA ITEM SUMMARY ITEM NUMBER: 33
DATE: September 2, 2003
FORT COLLINS CITY COUNCIL FROM:
Troy Jones
SUBJECT :
Consideration of the Appeal of the July 14, 2003, Determination of the Administrative Hearing
Officer to Impose the Following Condition on the Approval of the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek
Project Development Plan: "The Applicant Shall Include on the Final Plan, the Hours of
Operation of 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday Through Saturday."
RECOMMENDATION:
Staff recommends that the Council remand the matter for rehearing.
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
The Appellant has alleged, as the grounds for appeal, that the Hearing Officer failed to conduct a
fair hearing in that evidence upon which the Hearing Officer based his decision was substantially
false. If the Council finds that the applicant was denied a fair hearing, then, in accordance with
Section 2-56(d) of the Fort Collins City Code, the City Council must remand the matter for
40 rehearing.
BACKGROUND:
On July 14, 2003, the administrative Hearing Officer approved the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek
Project Development Plan subject to the following conditions:
1. The City shall vacate portions of South College Avenue (SH287) and Fossil Creek
Parkway, as described on the Vacation Request Exhibit dated June 20, 2003.
2. The Applicant shall include on the Final Plan, the hours of operation of 8:30 a.m. to
5:30 p.m. Monday through Saturday.
The property is zoned C - Commercial. The property is located on the southeast corner of South
College Avenue and Fossil Creek Parkway.
On July 24, 2003, a Notice of Appeal was received by the City Clerk's office regarding the
decision of the administrative Hearing Officer. In the Notice of Appeal, the grounds for appeal
were unclear, so at the request of the City Clerk, the applicant filed an Amended Notice of
Appeal. On August 11, 2003, such Amended Notice of Appeal was received by the Clerk's
office. In this Amended Notice of Appeal, the Appellant, James Silhasek of Discount Tire
Company, alleges that the Hearing Officer failed to conduct a fair hearing in that he considered
evidence relevant to the finding which was substantially false.
DATE: Septemoer 2, 2003 ITEM NUMBER:
At the hearing, a representative of Discount Tire Company mistakenly stated that the normal
hours of operation for the proposed Discount Tire Company building would be from 8:30 p.m. to
5:30 p.m., Monday through Saturday, closed on Sundays (see line 17 through 25 on page 52
continued through lines 1 through 1-1 of page 53 of the transcript of the hearing).
The Appellant contends that the actual hours of operation for all Discount Tire Company stores,
nationwide, is 8:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Monday through Friday, and 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on
Saturday.
The attached documents include:
• Clerk's Notice of the Appeal Hearing
• the Amended Notice of Appeal (dated August 8, 2003 and received by the Clerk's office
August 11, 2003);
• the Hearing Officer Decision (decision rendered July 14, 2003);
• the Staff Report for the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek Project Development Plan
(including staff recommendations and supporting documentation);
• a written transcript of the administrative hearing for the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek
Project Development Plan conducted on July 2, 2003.
The procedures for deciding the appeals are described in Chapter 2, Article II, Division 3 of the
City Code.
City Clerk
City of Fort Collins
NOTICE
The City Council of the City of Fort Collins,Colorado,on Tuesday,September 2,2003 at 6:00 p.m.
or as soon thereafter as the matter may come on for hearing in the Council Chambers in the City Hall
at 300 LaPorte Avenue, will hold a public hearing on the attached appeal from the decision of the
Hearing Officer,made on July 14,2003 regarding Discount Tire Project Development Plan #26-02,
filed by James Silhasek, Executive Vide President and General Counsel, Discount Tire Co.
If you wish to comment on this matter, you are strongly urged to attend the hearing on this appeal.
4a
If you have any questions or require further information please feel free to contact the City Clerk's
Office (221-6515) or the Current Planning Department (221-6750).
Section 2-56 of the Code of the City of Fort Collins provides that a member of City Council may
identify in writing any additional issues related to the appeal by August 27,2003. Agenda materials
provided to the City Council, including City staff's response to the Notice of Appeal, and any
additional issues identified by City Councilmembers, will be available to the public on Thursday,
August 28 after 10:00 a.m. in the City Clerk's Office.
The City of Fort Collins will make reasonable accommodations for access to City services,
programs, and activities and will make special communication arrangements for persons with
disabilities. Please call the City Clerk's Office (221-6515) for assistance.
Wanda M. Krajicek
City Clerk
Date Notice Mailed:
August 22, 2003
cc: City Attorney
Chair, Planning and Zoning Board
Current Planning Department
Appellant/Applicant
300 LaPorte Avenue • P.O.Box 580 • Fort Collins,CO 80522-0580 • (970)221-6515 • FAX(970)221-6295
05 � trN at
' ®
TIRE CO. INC
20225 NORTH SCOTTSDALE ROAD • SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA 85255 • (480) 606-6000
Writer's Direct Line:
(480) 606-5828
(480) 606-4361 FAX
e-mail: jsilhasek(u,discounttireco.com
August 8, 2003
VIA OVERNIGHT MAIL
(970) 221-6515
Ms. Wanda Krajicek
City Clerk
City of Fort Collins, Colorado
281 North College Avenue
Fort Collins, CO 80522-0580
Re: Amended Notice of Appeal of Decision of Decision Maker Under the
Provisions of Section 2.2.12 of the Land Use Code of July 14, 2003,
Cameron Gloss as Decision Maker
Dear Ms. Krajicek:
This Amended Notice of Appeal is made to the Notice of Appeal dated July 23, 2003,
and received in your office on July 24, 2003. A copy of the Notice of Appeal, with attachment,
is attached hereto and all of the terms are incorporated herewith except as changed by this
Amended Notice of Appeal.
Paragraph 2) of the Notice of Appeal is amended as follows:
Grounds for Appeal
The specific allegation of error in the Decision is the designation of the hours of
operation set forth in item 2 of the Decision. It is specifically requested that the
hours of operation set forth in the Decision of"8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday
through Saturday" be changed to "8:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Friday
and 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday". The Appeal is being made pursuant to
the provisions of paragraph (b)(2)c. of section 2-48 of the City Code.
•
�i�/7
' ..
Ms. Wanda Krajicek
August 8, 2003
Page 2 of 2
Specifically, that provision provides the grounds for appear are available for the
failure to conduct a fair hearing in that "the decision maker considered evidence
relevant to the finding which was substantially false". . . . During the hearing, a
witness set forth the hours of operation of the business to be conducted on the
property to be from 8:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday through Saturday, which was
substantially false inasmuch as the actual hours of operation (8:30 a.m. to 6:00
p.m. Monday through Friday and 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday) are an
integral part of the state-wide, as well as the nation-wide, advertisement of the
chain of stores of which the subject property will be a part. The hours are set
forth in a substantial number of the advertisements and to note one store with
different hours would create not only a substantial cost but, in many instances,
substantial consumer misunderstanding.
With respect to this matter, it is emphasized that this is only a request to submit this one
point for re-hearing by the decision maker inasmuch as all other matters before the decision
maker have been resolved.
This Amended Notice of Appeal is respectfully submitted for consideration by the city
counsel.
Very truly yours,
DISCOUNT TIRE CO.
ame�ek
Executive Vice President and
General Counsel
JS/sh
cc: Mr. Rich Sommer
Mr. Dave Parker
/enclosures
M:Vega/IWPILTMCOfossil creek&college ft.collins appealldoc
v � sravN �c®
. TIRE Co. INC
20225 NORTH SCOTTSDALE ROAD • SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA 85255 • (480) 606-6000
Writers Direct Line:
(480) 606-5828
(480) 606-4361 FAX
e-mail: isilhasek(u-?discounttireco.com
July 23, 2003
VIA OVERNIGHT MAIL
(970) 221-6515
Ms. Wanda Krajicek
City Clerk
City of Fort Collins, Colorado
281 North College Avenue
Fort Collins, CO 80522-0580
Re: Notice of Appeal of Decision of Decision Maker Under the
Provisions of Section 2.2.12 of the Land Use Code of July 14,
2003, Cameron Gloss as Decision Maker
• Dear Ms. Krajicek:
This Notice Of Appeal is made of the Decision rendered by Cameron Gloss on
July 14, 2003, a copy of which is attached hereto. A specific portion of the Decision
being appealed is the requirement that"The Applicant shall include on the Final Plan, the
hours of operation of 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday through Saturday". The appellants
are requesting that the hours of operation stated in the Decision be stated as "8:30 a.m. to
6:00 p.m. Monday through Friday and 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday". No other
portion of the Decision is asked to be considered for review.
I) The name, address and telephone numbers for appellant are as follows:
Discount Tire Company
20225 N. Scottsdale Road, Scottsdale, Arizona 85255
(formerly 14631 N. Scottsdale Road, Arizona 85254)
Owner
Telephone Numbers:
James Silhasek(480) 606-5955
Dave Parker (480) 606-5736
Rich Sommer (480) 606-5931
With respect to the person designated to receive any notice of defects in the
appeal notice, it is specifically requested that Rich Sommer at (480) 606-5931 be
contacted.
Ms. Wanda Krajicek
TRECO.IW- July 23, 2003
Page 2 of 2
2) Grounds for Appeal
The specific allegation of error in the Decision is the designation of the hours of
operation set forth in item 2 of the decision. It is specifically requested that the
hours of operation set forth in the decision of "8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday
through Saturday" be changed to "8:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday through Friday
and 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday". The grounds for appeal are either that
the statement of operating hours in the Decision is based on a scrivener's error or,
quite possibly, at one point in the testimony, a witness erroneously stated the
hours of operation of the store to be constructed on the property. These are the
hours for all of the stores in the organization throughout Colorado and throughout
the rest of the United States, which fact either was not stated or not stated
properly. It will, of course, accomplish the new goal as intended in the Decision
to not allow the store to remain open late into the night.
Finally, in closing, please find a check in the amount of$100 payable to the City
of Fort Collins to serve as the filing fee.
This Notice of Appeal is respectfully submitted for consideration by the City
Council.
Very truly yours,
DISCOUNT TIRE CO.
C;
2,
Alllhasek
Executive Vice President and
General Counsel
JS/sh
cc: Mr. Rich Sommer
Mr. Dave Parker
M.Vegall WPIL TRICOfossil creek&collegeJt.collins appeal.doc
Community Planning and Environmental Services
Current Planning
City of Fort Collins
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER
TYPE I ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING
FINDINGS, CONCLUSIONS AND DECISION
ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING DATE: July 2, 2003
PROJECT NAME: Discount Tire Project Development Plan
CASE NUMBER: #26-02
APPLICANT: Louise Herbert
V.F. Ripley & Associates
401 West Mountain Avenue, Suite 201
Fort Collins, CO 80521-2604
OWNER: Discount Tire Company
14361 N. Scottsdale Rd.
Scottsdale, AZ
HEARING OFFICER: Cameron Gloss
Current Planning Director
PROJECT DESCRIPTION:
The Applicant has submitted a Project Development Plan (referred to herein as the
"Project" or the "PDP") proposing a one-story, 8,480 sq.ft. tire store, located at the
southeast corner of South College Avenue and Fossil Creek Parkway. The project
would be accessed from Fossil Creek Parkway, in alignment with Snead Drive.
SUMMARY OF HEARING OFFICER DECISION: Conditional Approval
ZONING DISTRICT: C — Commercial District.
. STAFF RECOMMENDATION: Conditional Approval
28"1 North College Avenue • P.O. Box 580 • Fort Collins,CO 80522-0580 • (Q70) 221-6750 • FAX (970) 416-2020
Discount Tire PDP
Administrative Hearing
Findings, Conclusions, and Decision
July 2, 2003
Page 2 of 7
NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING: Evidence presented to the Hearing Officer established
no controversy or facts to refute that the hearing was
properly posted, legal notices mailed and notice
published.
PUBLIC HEARING
The Hearing Officer, presiding pursuant to the Fort Collins Land Use Code, opened the
hearing at approximately 5:30 p.m. on July 2, 2003 in the Conference Rooms C and D,
281 N. College Avenue, Fort Collins, Colorado.
HEARING TESTIMONY, WRITTEN COMMENTS AND OTHER EVIDENCE:
The Hearing Officer accepted during the hearing the following evidence: (1) Planning
Department Staff Report; (2) application, plans, maps and other supporting documents
submitted by the applicant and the applicant's representatives to the City of Fort Collins;
and (3) a tape recording of public testimony provided during the hearing. The LUC, the
City's Comprehensive Plan (City Plan), and the formally promulgated policies of the City
are all considered part of the evidence considered by the Hearing Officer.
The following is a list of those who attended the meeting:
From the City:
Troy Jones, City Planner
Katie Moore, Development Review Engineer
From the Applicant:
Paul Heffron, Property Owner
David Parker, Project Architect
Jack Blake, Consulting Engineer
From the Public:
Bonnie McCormick, 5213 Fossil Ridge Drive
Cindy South, 5201 Fossil Ridge Drive
Chris and Katie Corman, 5212 Fossil Ridge Drive
Gene and Molly Fiechtl, 5430 Fossil Court North
Sandra Holt, 5518 Fossil Ridge Drive East
Written Comments:
None
Discount Tire POP
Administrative Hearing
Findings, Conclusions, and Decision
. July 2, of 7
Page 3 of 7
FACTS AND FINDINGS
1. Compatibility with Surrounding Uses
The surrounding zoning and land uses are as follows:
W: C — College Avenue, Existing Cameron Park office development,
POL — Existing City owned Redtail Grove Natural Area,
N: C — Fossil Creek Parkway, vacant Parcel, existing retail shopping center,
NE: Residential (R) Zone in Larimer County— Fossil Creek Parkway, existing
single family detached portion of the Fossil Creek Meadows
Neighborhood,
E: Residential (R) Zone in Larimer County — Existing single family attached
portion of the Fossil Creek Meadows Neighborhood, Fossil Creek,
neighborhood park,
S: Residential (R) Zone in Larimer County — Existing neighborhood,
SW: C — College Aveune,
POL — Existing City owned Redtail Grove Natural Area.
. The property was annexed as part of the Fossil Creek Third Annexation in April
of 1985.
The evidence established that the owner of the subject property was originally
entitled by the C Commercial zone district to the use of the site exclusively for
commercial development, including the proposed tire store use. A commercial
zone designation has been assigned to this property since 1977, when the area
was first developed in Larimer County. This commercial zoning predates much,
if not all, of the residential development within the immediately surrounding area.
When the property was annexed into the City of Fort Collins in 1985, the C-
Commercial designation was assigned consistent with the previous Larimer
County zoning. As a result, residential owners understood, or should be charged
with some level of knowledge, that the subject property would be used for
commercial purposes.
Testimony was offered at the hearing by neighboring residential landowners
concerning the anticipated or feared impacts of the proposed development and
its design upon the residential land uses of the Fossil Creek Meadows
Subdivision. These impacts included increased noise, traffic, access, decrease in
residential property values, and negative impacts to water quality and wildlife
habitat.
Evidence further established that two neighborhood meetings and other
opportunities were made available for the opponents of the project to engage the
Discount Tire PDP
Administrative Hearing
Findings, Conclusions, and Decision
July 2, 2003
Page 4 of 7
Applicant and Owner in the property's design and operational issues. The
Applicant and Owner acknowledged that they had taken steps to adjust the
design of the proposed development plan to help mitigate impacts on the
neighboring residential uses. Unfortunately, the adjustments did not, to those
persons in attendance, address the potential issues and concerns.
A common issue repeatedly raised by many opponents involved adverse noise
impacts. It was an expressed fear of the opponents that the noise generated
from air impact wrenches and other aspects of the operation would create
unreasonable and significant adverse impact to the neighborhood. As part of the
Applicant's submittal, a noise study was submitted that identified the noise
impacts associated with the prototype building proposed for this Development.
No site specific noise study was completed. The noise diagram developed for
the prototype building, when transposed on the site plan developed for the
subject property, shows that the noise levels above 59 (dB(A)), described by the
applicant as the level of a "speaking voice", will fall within the subject property.
The building has been sited with tire bays opening to the south, oriented away
from the closest residences. While neighborhood residents have pointed out that
the study prepared by the applicant did not take into account site topography and
the building's close proximity to Fossil Creek, the weight of the evidence
suggests that noise generated by the Development are well within the maximum
levels prescribed under the City Code. Section 20-23 of the City Code specifies
that the maximum noise generated will be no more than 55 dB(A) from 7:00 am
to 8:00 pm. Pursuant to Section 20-24, the noise levels shall be measured at or
within the property boundary of the impacted land use. With the property
boundary of the closest residence more than 200 feet away from the 59 dB(A)
level identified on the applicant's noise study, the Hearing Officer is convinced
that the applicable noise standard will be met.
Adverse traffic conditions in the immediate area of S. College and Fossil Creek
Parkway were another main issue raised by many opponents of the
Development. The opponents specifically expressed concern about the amount
of additional traffic generated by the Development and the potential for users to
unsuccessfully attempt to cut through adjacent dead-end streets and force to use
them as a "turn-around". Based on the Applicant's Transportation Impact Study
(TIS) the evidence presented on the issue of traffic impacts affecting Fossil
Creek Parkway and "turn around" traffic within the neighborhood, the Hearing
Officer is convinced that vehicular conflicts will not increase in any significant
manner by the traffic generated by the Project. Traffic projections provided in the
applicant's Transportation Impact Study are based on actual traffic counts from
the same prototype store. The Hearing Officer acknowledges and appreciates
that residents have provided careful thought in the framing of their concerns;
however, the weight of evidence presented by the Applicant and corroborated by
Discount Tire PDP
Administrative Hearing
Findings, Conclusions, and Decision
• July 2, of 7
Page 5 of 7
the City staff, supports a finding of compliance with the Transportation Level of
Service Requirements
Requests were made to the Hearing Officer by area residents to consider the
impacts on the quality of life that might arise due to the existence of a
neighboring tire store near a residential area. Admittedly, many, if not most,
residential owners would not desire a new use of this type within the immediate
vicinity of their homes. However, the subject property has long been planned
and zoned for a commercial use, such as contemplated by the PDP and, in fact,
the subject property was available for other commercial uses with potentially
greater intensity than that proposed by the PDP. The Hearing Officer both
sympathizes with the neighboring property owners and finds the Applicant/Owner
has attempted, through building placement and orientation near the corner of S.
College Avenue (a heavily traveled State highway), and landscape treatments, to
mitigate impacts between the lawfully permitted use of the subject property and
the neighboring residences.
Although the Hearing Officer finds that some of the concerns raised by the
opponents of the PDP were insightful and might potentially improve acceptance
of the PDP by the neighboring landowners, the PDP must be judged under the
existing applicable regulations of the Fort Collins Land Use Code. These
regulations provide sufficient specificity to determine that the Applicant and
Owner have designed the PDP in conformance with the applicable regulations
and there is no authority for the Hearing Officer to mandate that the Applicant or
Owner exceed the minimum requirements of the Land Use Code, and other
applicable regulations, in designing the development
2. Compliance with Article 4 and the C — Commercial Zoning District
Standards:
The Project Development Plan complies with all applicable requirements of
Article 4 and the C zone district. The Staff Report summarizes the PDP's
compliance with these standards. In particular, the proposed tire store, which is
considered a "minor vehicle repair, servicing and maintenance" use is permitted
within the C zone district subject to an administrative review. See Section
4.17(2)(c) of the LUC. The Project is also in conformance with Section 4.17(D),
land use standards relating to building height, calling for buildings to be four
stories or less.
3. Compliance with Article 3 of the Land Use Code — General Development
Standards
. The Project Development Plan complies with all applicable sections of Article 3 of
the LUC except the Orientation to Build-To Lines Standard found in Section
Discount Tire PDP
Administrative Hearing
Findings, Conclusions, and Decision
July 2, 2003
Page 6 of 7
3.5.3(B)(2). The Planning and Zoning Board found, in a public hearing held on
August 15, 2002, pursuant to the criteria of Section 2.8.2, that the proposed
building could be setback further from Fossil Creek Parkway than the maximum
15 feet permitted.
In addition to the neighborhood compatibility issues that were raised, testimony
provided at the hearing questioned whether the standards for drainage, wildlife
habitat, and water quality protection were being met by the PDP. It was an
expressed fear of the opponents that the Project will cause environmental
damage to the adjacent Fossil Creek and poses a stormwater safety issue for the
surrounding area. As outlined in the Applicant's Final Drainage and Erosion
Control Report and corroborated by the Applicant's Engineer and the City staff at
the hearing, runoff water will be detained on the property and will release at a
two-year historic rate. The projected level of drainage will release water at the
same rate as in its present undeveloped condition. In addition to the quantity of
water, the detention design will ensure the quality of water entering into Fossil
Creek. An Ecological Characterization Study, including a field survey, was
conducted to identify any unique or sensitive natural resource features on-site or
impacted by the Development. Large trees on the south end of the property will
be maintained as part of the PDP. Project impacts to natural habitat will be
mitigated by a 100 buffer area between the creek and the proposed facilities and
one quarter mile buffer from an existing Redtail Hawk's nest located to the
southwest consistent with requirements found in the LUC. The Staff Report
summarizes the PDP's compliance with these standards and there was no
evidence submitted at the hearing to contradict the statements and conclusion of
the Staff Report concerning compliance or to otherwise refute compliance with
the Article 3 Standards.
SUMMARY OF CONCLUSIONS
A. The Discount Tire Project Development Plan is subject to administrative review
and the requirements of the Land Use Code (LUC).
B. The Discount Tire Project Development Plan complies with all applicable district
standards of Section 4.17 of the Land Use Code, (C) Commercial zone district.
C. The Discount Tire Project Development Plan complies with all applicable General
Development Standards contained in Article 3 of the Land Use Code, except
where a modification was previously granted by the Planning and Zoning Board.
Discount Tire PDP
Administrative Hearing
Findings, Conclusions, and Decision
Jury 2, of 7
Page 7 of 7
DECISION
The Discount Tire Project Development Plan #26-02, is hereby approved by the
Hearing Officer subject to the following conditions:
1. The City shall vacate portions of South College Avenue (SH 287) and Fossil Creek
Parkway, as described on the Vacation Request Exhibit dated June 20, 2003.
2. The Applicant shall include on the Final Plan, the hours of operation of 8:30 a.m. to
5:30 p.m. Monday through Saturday.
Dated this 14th day of July 2003, per authority granted by Sections
1.4.9(E) and 2.1 of the Land Use Code.
Cameron Gloss
Current Planning Director
ITEM NO. 1 of 1
MEETING DATE 7/219(1f14
STAFFFTroy .lnnac
City of Fort Collins HEARING OFFICER
STAFF REPORT
PROJECT: Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File # 26-02
APPLICANT: Louise Herbert
V.F. Ripley & Associates
401 West Mountain Avenue, Suite 201
Fort Collins, CO 80521-2604
OWNER: Discount Tire Company
PROJECT DESCRIPTION:
The applicant is intending to construct a tire store at the southeast corner of
College Avenue and Fossil Creek Boulevard. The property is located in the
Commercial (C) zone district.
RECOMMENDATION: Approval
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
The proposed land use, "minor vehicle repair, servicing and maintenance", is
permitted in the (C) - Commercial zone district subject to a Type 1 review. The
Project Development Plan complies with all applicable district standards of Land
Use Code Section 4.17, (C) - Commercial zone district. The Project Development
Plan complies with all applicable General Development Standards contained in
Article 3 of the Fort Collins Land Use Code.
COMMUNITY PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES 261 N.College Ave. P.O.Box 580 Fort Collins,CO 80522-0580 (970)2-11-67;0
PLANNING DEPARTMENT
Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File # 26-02
July 2, 2003 Type 1 Hearing
Page 2
COMMENTS:
1. Background
The surrounding zoning and land uses are as follows:
W: C — College Avenue, Existing Cameron Park office development,
POL— Existing City owned Redtail Grove Natural Area,
N: C — Fossil Creek Parkway, vacant Parcel, existing retail shopping
center,
NE: Residential (R) Zone in Larimer County— Fossil Creek Parkway,
existing single family detached portion of the Fossil Creek
Meadows Neighborhood,
E: Residential (R) Zone in Larimer County — Existing single family
attached portion of the Fossil Creek Meadows Neighborhood,
Fossil Creek, neighborhood park,
S: Residential (R) Zone in Larimer County— Existing neighborhood,
SW: C — College Aveune,
POL — Existing City owned Redtail Grove Natural Area.
The property was annexed as part of the Fossil Creek Third Annexation in
April of 1985.
2. Division 4.17 of the Land Use Code, Commercial District (C)
The proposed use of "minor vehicle repair, servicing and maintenance" is
a permitted use in the (C) Commercial Zoning District subject to
administrative review.
3. Article 3 of the Land Use Code — General Development Standards
The Project Development Plan complies with all applicable General
Development Standards as follows:
A. Site Planning and Design Standards [3.2]
1. Landscaping and Tree Protection [3.2.1]
• Full Tree Stocking [3.2.1(D)(1)(c)] — Full tree stocking is
required in all landscaped areas within 50 feet of any
building along high use or high visibility sides. Full tree
stocking is formal or informal groupings of trees planted
at 30' to 40' spacing intervals for canopy shade trees, or
at 20' to 30' spacing intervals for coniferous evergreens
Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File # 26-02
July 2, 2003 Type 1 Hearing
Page 3
or ornamental trees. The proposed site plan satisfies this
standard.
• Street Trees [3.2.1(D)(2)] — Street trees are required at
30 to 40 foot spacing along adjacent streets. The
application satisfies this standard.
• Minimum Species Diversity [3.2.1(D)(3)] — Based on the
total proposed number of new trees (48), the applicant
would be allowed to have up to 25% of any one species
(12), but has only proposed a maximum of 9 of one
species, therefore satisfies the minimum species diversity
requirement.
• Foundation Plantings [3.2.1(E)(2)(d)] —All exposed
sections of building walls located in high visibility areas
have planting beds of at least 5 feet in width. The
landscape plan therefore satisfies the foundation
plantings requirement.
• Parking Lot Perimeter Landscaping [3.2.1(E)(4)] —Trees
are provided in excess of the required 1 tree per 40 feet
around between the vehicular areas and the adjacent
streets. The landscape plan therefore satisfies the
parking lot perimeter landscaping requirement.
• Screening [3.2.1(E)(6)] — Landscape and building
elements are placed to adequately screen areas of low
visual interest and visually intrusive site elements
including the trash enclosure area.
• Utilities [3.2.1(K)] —The landscape and utility plans have
been coordinated and the required tree/utility separations
have been provided, thereby satisfying this standard.
2. Access, Circulation and Parking [3.2.2]
• Safety Considerations [3.2.2(C)(1)] — Pedestrians are
separated from vehicles and bicycles to the maximum
extent feasible, thereby satisfying this requirement.
• Curbcuts and Ramps [3.2.2(C)(2)] — Ramps are provided
• where the street sidewalks cross the private drive aisles,
thereby satisfying this requirement.
Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File # 26-02
July 2, 2003 Type 1 Hearing
Page 4
• Parking Lot Layout [3.2.2(E)] — The on-site vehicular area
provides well-defined circulation routes for vehicles and
pedestrians. Landscaped peninsulas with raised curbs
define vehicular area entrances. This standard is
therefore satisfied.
• Parking Lots — Required Number of Off-Street Spaces for
Type of Use [3.2.2(K)] —This Section of the Land Use
Code specifies that vehicle servicing and maintenance
establishments can have up to 5 spaces per 1000 square
feet of gross leasable area of building. However, in the
event that on-street or shared parking is not available on
land adjacent to the use, the maximum allowed parking
may be increased by 20%, provided that the amount of
parking lot landscaping is also increased by 20%. The
applicant proposes 46 parking spaces, which does in fact
exceed the 42 spaces that would be allowed if the 5/1000
ratio were applied, however there is no on-street or
shared parking available on any adjacent site, and the
parking lot landscaping exceeds the minimum required
by more than 20%, therefore 46 spaces is permitted.
3. Solar Access, Orientation, Shading [3.2.3] — The proposed plan is
designed in a way that protects its roof's access to sunshine
between 9am and 3pm on December 21 s`. The physical elements
of the development plan are located and designed in a way that will
not cast a shadow onto structures within the site or on adjacent
property greater than allowed in this section.
4. Site Lighting — [3.2.4] —As required the applicant is using lighting
fixtures that are concealed and fully shielded featuring sharp cut-off
capability which reduces up-light, spill-light, glare and unnecessary
diffusion on adjacent property. The maximum and minimum
lighting on-site lighting levels are in compliance with this section.
B. Engineering Standards [3.3]
1. Plat Standards [3.3.1] As required, the general layout of the lots,
roads, driveways, utilities, drainage facilities, and other services
within the proposed development are designed in a way that utilizes
the existing street system within the neighborhood. Proper right-of-
way has been dedicated for adjacent public streets, emergency
access easements, and utility easements have been provided as
needed to serve the area being platted.
Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File # 26-02
July 2, 2003 Type 1 Hearing
Page 5
• 2. Water Hazards [3.3.3] — The PDP has been reviewed by and
complies with the requirements of the Stormwater Department.
3. Engineering Design Standards [3.3.5] — This project complies with
all design standards, requirements, and specifications for all of the
commenting departments and agencies.
C. Building Standards [3.5]
1 . Building and Project Compatibility [3.5.1] — The proposed building
uses the same colors and materials already found in the
neighborhood therefore is compatible with the established
architectural of buildings in the surrounding area. Utility meters,
trash collection, and other service functions are incorporated into
the overall design scheme of the site so that these uses are
screened and out of view of high visibility areas.
2. Mixed-Use, Institutional and Commercial Buildings [3.5.3] — The
applicant was granted a modification to Section 3.5.3(B)(2) of
the Land Use Code from the Planning and Zoning Board on
August 15, 2002. The standard would normally require buildings
to be setback no more than 15 feet from streets classified smaller
40 than a full arterial, however the applicant was granted permission to
position the building so that its setback from Fossil Creek Parkway
varies between 26.5 feet and 39.5 feet. The building otherwise
satisfies the requirements of Section 3.5.3 for variation in massing,
fagade treatment, entrance treatment, and the base and top
treatment requirements, therefore the application satisfies the
requirements of this section of the code.
D. Transportation and Circulation [3.6]
1. Master Street Plan [3.6.1] — College Avenue is designated as a
"Major 6 Lane Arterial" on the Master Street Plan, and Fossil Creek
Parkway is designated as a "Collector 2 Lane." According to current
standards, there is excess right-of-way on College Avenue. This
project proposes vacation of the excess College Avenue right-of-
way, as well as the vacation and dedication of small portions of
right-of-way on Fossil Creek Boulevard. These vacations must be
approved by council, which staff anticipates will be approved
without controversy. Staff does however recommend that a
condition be placed on the approval of the P.D.P. that
conditions such approval upon successful right-of-way
. vacation by City Council.
Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File # 26-02
July 2, 2003 Type 1 Hearing
Page 6
2. Transportation Level of Service Requirements [3.6.4] —The
Transportation Planning Department and the Traffic Operations
Department have determined that the project meets the applicable
Transportation Level of Service(LOS) requirements.
FINDINGS OF FACT/CONCLUSIONS
After reviewing the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., staff makes the
following findings of fact and conclusions:
1 . The proposed land use is permitted in the (C) Commercial zone
district.
2. The Project Development Plan complies with all applicable district
standards of Section 4.17 of the Land Use Code, the (C) Commercial
zone district.
3. Upon action by City Council vacating several portions of College
Avenue and Fossil Creek Parkway rights-of-way, the Project
Development Plan complies with all applicable General Development
Standards contained in Article 3 of the Land Use Code, except section
3.5.3(B)(2) where a modification was granted by the Planning and
Zoning Board.
RECOMMENDATION:
Staff recommends approval of the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek P.D.P., File #
26-02 under the condition that City Council does in fact vacate the
proposed portions of College Avenue and Fossil Creek Parkway rights-of-
way as anticipated.
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Discount Tire at Fossil Creek PDP
Meeting Date: 3/18/2002
Neighborhood Meeting Notes
Staff present: Bob Barkeen, Current Planning
Q: Fill material — water table depth?
Q: What the floodplain elevation of Fossil Creek?
Q: Lifts? Type of equipment?
Q: Truck traffic?
A: Consolidated deliveries.
Q: Grading within the 100 year floodplain?
A: No.
Q: Detention pond?
A: Yes, and it will release into Fossil Creek.
Q: What about filtering of potential contaminants in the runoff?
A: City requires a water quality feature, often water must run through grassy area.
Q: Amount of water?
A: Stream catches runoff.
Q: When will landscaping occur? How big will trees be? Will everything planted be shown on the
plans?
Q: Why did the applicant pick the site?
Comment: Don't plant same trees as in the corridor.
Comment: Should still detain stormwater flows and release at historic rate. Don't want to impact
hydrology.
Comment: Development will add to flooding.
Q: Isn't the parcel east of here going to be a park?
Comment: Would prefer office building.
Comment: Traffic congestion already bad at this intersection.
Response: Applicant will be required to submit a Traffic Study.
. Q: When will Snead Drive go through?
Q: Will there be access to College Ave.? Are there street lights planned along College?
Page 1 of I
Q: Where will tires be stored?
A: Only inside.
Comment: Concerned about sound of equipment. It should be mitigated. What about a noise barter?
Q: Lighting?
Q: How many cars do they service?
Comment: There should be another neighborhood meeting conducted so that experts with the
answers to these questions can be available to clear them up.
Comment: The traffic study should be done when apartments are full.
Q: Will there be sidewalk along Fossil Creek Blvd.?
A: Curb, gutter, sidewalk on both sides.
Q: Sidewalk along College?
A: Along property frontage.
Q: How will it be continued?
Q: Where will dumpsters go?
Q: Geotechnical work, water table?
Q: Chemicals from stormwater flows over the parking lot, how are they disposed of.
A: Water runoff flows over grass to filter.
Comment: Concern about asbestos, washing site, cleaning, flows off of site.
Response: Sewer
Comment: City treatment plan may not clear water fully, i.e. hard metals.
Q: Bigger trees?
Comment: Trees in sight distance areas, keep clear for safety.
Page 2
Neighborhood Meeting Notes
Gte of Fort Collins
Discount Tire at Fossil Creek PDP Meeting Date: 7/11/2002
2nd Neighborhood Meeting
Staff present: Troy Jones, Current Planning
Doug Moore, Natural Resources
Eric Bracke, Traffic Operations
Dan McAurther, Neighborhood Resources
Questions and Answers:
Q: What kind of signage will there be?
A: Ground mounted monument sign and building mounted signs.
Q: Are there stop signs for traffic before it enters Fossil Creek Boulevard?
A: Snead Drive and the Discount tire access drive will have stop signs for traffic
entering onto Fossil Creek Boulevard.
Q: Are you going to disturb the creek?
A: [from Natural Resource Staff] - There is an average 100' wide buffer required
from Fossil Creek. The City will locate the future Fossil Creek Trail next to the creek
along the south property edge of this development.
Comment: Most of the property south and east of site is the open space belonging to
the neighboring Home Owners Association.
Q: Will there be pollution that effects the creek? (Stormwater runoff)
A: There are requirements in place to contain ten year storm, and a grease trap is
required for any inside floor drainage. The water from the parking lot drains to an
on-site detention pond that will hold the water for forty hour before it drains
completely back into the creek. The detention pond will filter debris from floods
within the 100 year flood plain.
Q: Oil Change?
A: Not done here. Trench drain and grease seperator is for hosing off the garage
floor. None of the floor drain water goes to Fossil Creek, it goes into the City's
sanatary sewer system.
Q: Will there be air ratchet noise, and at what hours?
A: [by applicant] Hours are 8-5 Monday through Saturday, closed Sunday. Decibel
level measurements are indicated on a hand out that was passed out at the meeting.
Decibel measurements 90' away are under 60 decibels, which is equivelant to a
Page 1 of 1
conversational level of noise. Any natural habitat buffer reduction needs to address
noise.
Q: What's the anticipated time frame?
A: The applicant hopes to complete the City review within 120 days. Most likely
construction won't start until after first of the next year. Open either April or May.
Q: This store in addition to College Ave. store?
A: Undecided depends on if this store affects business.
Q: Tire removal?
A: Hire a sub to come get them, the tires will be stored inside an exclusive discarded
tire room enclosed within the building.
Q: Lighting?
A: The proposed lighting levels fairly low, and within the City's requirements.
Summary
Enclosed is a copy of the sign-in sheet from the neighborhood meeting, a statement
of planning objectives (including a project description) from the applicant, a copy of
the acoustical study showing decibel readings at various distances (that was passed
out at the meeting), and a proposed site plan. There are still revisions being
required by the City that the applicant will need to address. No date has been set as
of yet for the public hearing for this project. All property owners who received notice
for the neighborhood meeting will receive a notice by mail of the public hearing.
Page 2
3
NEIGHBORHOOD INFORAIATION MEETING
fa_r
Project:
Meeting Location: :
ny�v�`^ City of Fort Collins Date: F�y 2�,� �` L '
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Attendees: Please si-n this sheet. The information will be used to
update the project mailing list and confirm attendance at neighborhood
meetings. Contact the Plannina Department (221-67:0) if you wish to Did You Receive I��ICCorreet
receive minutes of this meeting. rittea Notircatfon�?ddress.
oC this tneetino? II
Name Address ss Zip I Yes No IYes I No
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DISCOUNT TIRE AT FOSSIL CREEK PROJECT
ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING
JULY 2, 2003
Cameron Gloss, Administration Hearing Officer
City of Fort Collins
281 North College Avenue
Conference Room C&D
• 1
1 MR. GLOSS: I'm Cameron Gloss. I'm the Director of
2 Current Planning with the City of Fort Collins, and I will
3 be functioning as the Administrative Hearings Officer. And
4 we are recording this for quality control in case there is
5 an appeal that we've got a clear record of this hearing.
6 This is for the Discount Tire at Fossil Creek Project
7 Development Plan. We are in Conference Room C 6 D at the
8 City of Fort Collins, 281 North College. It is 5:30 p.m.
9 and it's July 2, 2003. We are a relatively small group here
10 and I 'd like to keep it relatively informal but we do have
11 some very specific procedures that we have to follow for the
12 hearing and I'd like to kind of go over that at the start.
13 In terms of the process, what's going to happen is
14 that the staff planner, in this case, Troy Jones, he' s
15 assigned to the project, would make a presentation and with
16 that presentation he'll be making a recommendation and that
17 recommendation is based on some very specific criteria that
18 I will be using to evaluate the project as well and those
19 deal with the use standards of the City, whether use is
20 permitted on the property and as well as some what we call
21 general development standards. These relate to the design,
22 the layout, the landscaping, the operating characteristics,
23 some of their design features that relate to the
24 development.
25 And after that point the applicant will have the
•
2
1 opportunity to give a presentation. Then we will open it up
2 for public testimony and if you had a comment that you'd
3 like to make, what I'd like to do is very clearly state your
4 name for the record and if you have an usual spelling or
5 something to go ahead and give us that information, and also
6 I think everybody has signed in and I appreciate that. And
7 then we will have the ability then to respond to those
8 comments through kind of a response period where the
9 applicant and the staff can respond to those questions and
10 we can have another dialog. And there will be a certain
11 point where I have to close the public hearing and not allow
12 people to have any additional comments.
13 After this hearing is over I am going to go and
14 draft a decision approving or denying this project or
15 approving it with conditions and it will have some findings.
16 And everybody here in attendance that does testify will get
17 a copy of those findings as well as a cover letter
18 explaining the appeal process. My decisions could be
19 appealed to the City Council if you disagree and there are
20 some specific rules for that. But we will just go ahead
21 then and begin with the staff presentation.
22 MR. JONES: Thank you. I'm Troy Jones and I'm the
23 staff planner on the project. I'm going to walk over to the
24 boards over here. I think it would be easier to talk from a
25 diagram.
3
1 We at the City of Fort Collins have certain
2 criteria that developments that's proposed have to abide by
3 as we review it and let me just back up a step. My role in
4 the project is to be the project manager so that when --
5 from the development review standpoint. So what the City
6 development review process does is that when an applicant
7 wants to develop something, they draw up all of the details
8 of the plan, they submit it to the City, and then we check
9 it against all of the applicable rules and regulations to
10 make sure that they comply and then we give comment and we
11 go through a process.
12 In this case it's been -- it ' s been a couple of
13 years going back and forth through different revisions
14 ironing out the various details to make sure they comply
15 with all of the standards that are applicable. And then
16 when we get to a certain stage where we're -- where they've
17 satisfied our comments and we come to a public hearing which
18 is where we are tonight.
19 So let me just kind of go over briefly. In the
20 Land Use Codes, we've got two of the main sections where we
21 find most of the criteria. We have Article 3 which we call
22 the General Development Standards. Article 3 regulates
23 things such as landscaping, parking lot layout, number of
24 parking spaces allowed, you know, site layout where the.
25 building sits on the site and that sort of thing. Our board
4
1 is the specific zone district standards and that regulates
2 things that are specific to this zone like -- and in this
3 case we're in the C commercial zone so every property in
4 Fort Collins zoned C commercial has specific rules that
5 apply that don't apply to other zones elsewhere. And so in
6 this case we reviewed the project against Articles 3 & 4,
7 the General Development Standards and the Zone Specific.
8 Development Standards, and have come to a point where they
9 are in compliance with all of those standards within both of
10 those sections of the Land Use Code.
11 I do want to, however, go over a couple of points
12 that kind of give a little background on how we got where we
13 are with some of the issues. Currently the building setback
14 along Fossil Creek Parkway, the way that the building
15 setback regulation is written would require the building to
16 be pulled up to the street closer than it currently is. So
17 if the applicants did back -- it was last year, I forget the
18 date -- I think it was January or something -- at any rate,
19 they came to define the Zoning Board and they requested a
20 modification and I have that date here --
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: Well, we talked July 18th.
22 MR. JONES: Okay, so it's a year ago. Defining a
23 zoning board had to rule just on that one issue, whether or
24 not to allow that setback to deviate from what standards
25 currently say, and in this case they allowed that building
5
1 to be pushed back a little bit further. There were some,
2 you know, reasons which was the way that the traffic flow on
3 Fossil Creek Parkway is, the way the grades are, and just
4 needs of the vehicles there all kind of together made it
5 make sense from the Planning and Zoning Board's perspective,
6 to allow that building to be pushed back a little bit away
7 from the street.
8 A couple other things that we went through in the
9 process -- we went through several different iterations on
10 the color scheme. And the Land Use Code allows us to
11 require an applicant to deviate somewhat from their standard
. 12 prototype design. And some of the earlier versions had like
13 a red roof and some fairly bright color schemes that we
14 weren't comfortable with so we've gone through some
15 different design iterations and I think we got to a point
16 where we're comfortable from the City's perspective the way
17 the Land Use Code regulates.
18 The roof is now a teal and there's other teal
19 roofs that you see in the neighborhood so it blends in from
20 a color standpoint. Now the architectural features on the
21 building, we also required that there be certain wall
22 articulation features where the building has protruding
23 elements that punch out from the wall itself.
24 Another point I wanted to kind of bring up was the
25 parking requirements. When you apply the standard numbers
i
6
1 the way that the Fort Collins Land Use Code regulates
2 parking is this: Commercial parking we don't require a
3 certain minimum amount of parking. We just don't want the
4 parking lot to be too big and so we regulate a maximum
5 number of parking spaces. Then we also allow that maximum
6 number of parking spaces to be exceeded by 20percent if
7 there is no parking on the street next to it and if there is
8 no shared parking opportunities from any adjacent parcel.
9 So in this case they would be allowed 42 parking spaces with
10 the straight number. They bumped it up to 46 parking spaces
11 and in doing so were required to increase the amount of
12 parking lot landscaping that they otherwise would have had
13 so it does satisfy that criteria as well.
14 The last point T wanted to make is we're
15 recommending from staff standpoint a conditional approval.
16 And the one condition that we would like is there's
17 currently right-of-way for a frontage road on College Avenue
18 that we don't intend to ever build, that the City owns right
19 now. So we need to go through the process of actually
20 vacating that right-of-way and there's a certain couple of
21 pieces along here and Katie can clarify that if there's any
22 questions on that -- Katie from our Engineering Department.
23 There's a couple of little pieces of the Fossil Creek
24 Parkway right-of-way that are requested to be vacated.
25 That's an action that needs to happen by City Council and so
7
1 we would like to recommend approval with the conditions that
2 those right-of-ways as indicated are actually vacated as
3 anticipated by the City Council.
4 So with that I will turn it back over to Cameron.
5 MR. GLOSS: Thank you. Would the applicant like to
6 make a presentation? Thanks.
7 MS. HERBERT: My name is Louise Herbert and I'm
8 from Ripley Associates and actually we're (Inaudible) . We
9 have been involved in doing all the planning processing on
10 the project. Other people on the team that we have here are
11 a civil engineer, Stewart & Associates, and Dave Parker who
12 is our client so we will be able to answer any questions
13 that you might have. I think Troy (Inaudible) look at. We
14 (Inaudible) to know we had to look at the setbacks so we
15 tried to position the building as close as we could but we
16 (Inaudible) . Fossil Creek Parkway we were finding that
17 there were certain things that we were missing there but I
18 think Troy covered that with you.
19 I think I'll expand a bit more on the landscape
20 plan. We are also required by the City to make sure that we
21 get a good amount of landscape in here. They are set
22 standards that we have to comply with in that making sure
23 that (Inaudible) from the road and that we have screening
24 from along all sides of the property that is adequate from
25 street trees in here along the street and that this also
8
1 would require making sure we've got enough foundation
2 planting around the building, so we've tried to make sure
3 we've got all that covered.
4 The other thing is the access into the site. We
5 also had to look at aligning (Inaudible) . So there was
6 certain criteria that we had to use in doing that, too.
7 Also, the plantings near the Fossil Creek -- Fossil area
8 with Fossil Creek stream there, we're just trying to make
9 sure that we keep (Inaudible) area. That was another
10 requirement as well.
11 I think that's really the main point. Troy has
12 covered most of the main ones. As I said, we have our team
13 here if there are any questions we'd be happy to answer
14 them.
15 MR. GLOSS: Thank you. In just a moment I am going
16 to allow you to sit down here and then we'll open the public
17 hearing. So at this time just to let everyone know this
18 will be your opportunity to state if you have any issues,
19 questions, or concerns. What I would like you to do again
20 is, if you do have a comment, is to very clearly give us
21 your name and your address for the record and any comments
22 you have. And what I'd like to do is have the applicant and
23 staff respond directly to that question after it has been
24 stated so this is the opportunity so I'll be opening the
25 public hearing. Does anyone wish to speak?
9
1 MS. SOUTH: I 'd like to ask some questions.
2 MR. GLOSS: Sure.
3 MS. SOUTH: My name is Cindy South, S-o-u-t-h, like
4 the direction. I live on the (Inaudible) Fossil Ridge Drive
5 as well as the (Inaudible) and probably feel like we are
6 going to be impacted greatly by the noise and I personally
7 am speaking for myself. The industry that's in our area, we
8 have some commercial that sits right behind house and right
9 behind our fence and it is quite an industry. And it seems
10 like this industry is a very noisy industry and is totally
11 out of the norm for a residential area. I think the other
12 tire shops are within commercial areas where there is
13 already a lot of high-impact noise. My worst fear is
14 extreme noise everywhere constantly and the travel, the
15 noise in that -- it's -- cause we're in a valley there, and
16 the noise travels there very easily. And my concern is that
17 if you look at the noise pollution that is going to affect
18 us and the traffic. Adding 50, 46 parking spots, the
19 potential there obviously, is going to be quite high, so I 'd
20 like to know the noise impact that you've studied and what
21 you plan to do about that and why you would let such a noisy
22 industry in a residential area.
23 MR. GLOSS: Okay, great. Would the applicant like
24 to respond to both of those issues? First was if any noise
25 analysis had been done.
10
1 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. We addressed this at the
2 first public hearing. We had -- we had a study done, not
3 specific for this project, but this is general information.
4 And here is a diagram that shows the levels that we tested.
5 Pass that. I have a copy here. Pass it around.
6 MS. SOUTH: What project then would this be on if
7 it isn't on this one?
g MALE SPEAKER: Well, it's for our ability in any
9 significant setting. A building that we have that we
10 operate currently was tested and these are the results.
11 MALE SPEAKER: And will you stand by these results
12 if you exceed them?
13 MALE SPEAKER: Yes.
14 MALE SPEAKER: You would.
15 MALE SPEAKER: I didn't do the study. This
16 gentleman did it for us and he stands by them so --
17 MALE SPEAKER: But with Discount Tire --
is MALE SPEAKER: We've -- yeah. We haven't changed
19 our operation. We don't have any more noise equipment now
20 than we did then.
21 MALE SPEAKER: But the setting you're going into is
22 a little different than your setting --
23 MALE SPEAKER: Well, but the point of the study is
24 that I don't know you'll be impacted like you think you
25 will. What we're talking about levels that are no more
11
1 noisy than -- and I haven't reviewed this since that first
2 meeting -- I haven't had a chance to look --
3 MS. SOUTH: You know, that concern though, sir, is,
4 I believe, because we're in this valley that the noise is
5 going to be -- there's a -- right on the other side of the
6 creek there's a slope --
7 MALE SPEAKER: No, I understand.
8 MS. SOUTH: -- a large slope.
9 MALE SPEAKER: I 've walked the site several times
10 so I understand the area.
11 MS. SOUTH: So the concern is that just bouncing
• 12 around there and that's our backyard.
13 MALE SPEAKER: Well, but noise doesn't bounce
14 around in that manner. The reality of noise, it. dissipates
15 over distance and it dissipates to nothing over distance.
16 MS. SOUTH: So would you choose to live next door
17 to it?
18 MALE SPEAKER: Far enough away I wouldn't have any
19 trouble at all.
20 FEMALE SPEAKER: Within five hundred feet.
21 MS. SOUTH: Uh-huh.
22 MR. GLOSS: Could -- excuse me. If we could have
23 the applicant, please, it would be for my benefit as well,
24 take this example that you've shown and try to illustrate,
25 at least on the site development plan, these various decibel
12
1 levels that are .shown, how far out it would go relative to
2 this particular site. That would be helpful, I think.
3 MS. HERBERT: From taking the scale, this is about
4 30 feet; 30 feet is one inch and so from taking it from this
5 diagram from this location out we've got to 89 feet here and
6 so I 'm going to measure 90 feet which is right here, so it
7 extends to about this point here.
8 MS. SOUTH: Could you tell me --
9 MS. HERBERT: -- right here.
10 FEMALE SPEAKER: What does that mean?
11 MS. SOUTH: What does 59 decibels relate to? Is
12 there some kind of noise that we can relate it to?
13 MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) I apologize for not
14 having this stuff better -- let's see. Decibel is at 60 --
15 60 decibels is really a (Inaudible) of this gentleman's
16 table is really the speaking voices. It's no heavier than
17 traffic noise so the impact (Inaudible) is not something
18 that is going to be heard past the property line even, not
19 even.
20 MALE SPEAKER: That's not true.
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: There's no way --
22 MALE SPEAKER: No, no. I can only quote what I
23 have here because I'm not a sound guy.
24 MR. GLOSS: Well, maybe we should have somebody
25 else also do an impact study on this.
13
1 MALE SPEAKER: I 've walked on the other side of the
2 street by the Discount Tire on College just south of
3 Prospect and you can hear -- you walk over by the Arby's
4 which is across the street which is well past 90 feet and
5 you can hear all kinds of noises coming out of there.
6 MALE SPEAKER: This is going to be to the south,
7 isn't it? Where is the nearest property to the south?
6 MALE SPEAKER: Five hundred feet.
9 MALE SPEAKER: Five hundred feet. And we're
10 talking 90' --
11 MS. SOUTH: (Inaudible) -- right behind Snead
• 12 Drive. We live right behind Snead Drive there. Our house
13 is -
14 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
15 MS. SOUTH: And right across the street and at the
16 end of the street but that block is pretty much covered.
17 FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, yeah.
18 MALE SPEAKER: But work in our store is completed
19 inside the bay doors.
20 FEMALE SPEAKER: But the bay doors are open.
21 MR. GLOSS: Well, once again (Inaudible) --
22 MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) -- barrier to noise is
23 solid objects like concrete walls, block walls, etc. If
24 we're inside the doors then the only sound that is going to
25 escape is going to escape down College.
•
14
1 MALE SPEAKER: But don't your doors open to the
2 south?
3 MALE SPEAKER: Yes, to the south.
4 MALE SPEAKER: Then they don't open towards those
5 -- (Inaudible) .
6 MALE SPEAKER: They don't open towards the houses
7 on Fossil Creek.
8 MR. GLOSS: Who are you, sir?
9 MR. HEFFRON: I'm Paul Heffron and I own the
10 property.
11 MALE SPEAKER: You own the property?
12 MR. HEFFRON: Well, I'm general partner in the
13 partnership that owns the property.
14 MALE SPEAKER: And are you affiliated with Discount
15 Tire?
16 MR. HEFFRON: No -- in no way other than that I
17 have the property under contract.
18 MS. SOUTH: He owns the lot behind (Inaudible) .
19 MALE SPEAKER: He's selling the property.
20 MR. GLOSS: Let's try to kind of run through this.
21 MR. HEFFRON: A similar study to one in Boulder
22 and --
23 MALE SPEAKER: In a residential?
24 MR. HEFFRON: Yes, close by --
25 MR. GLOSS: Where's the address in the one in
15
I Boulder?
2 MR. HEFFRON: Winwood and 28th in Boulder, and the
3 direction of the sound was a significant element in -- we're
4 out in the open with no walls, obviously in all directions,
5 but inside the space it was because they made us aim it in a
6 certain direction. In other words, we constrained the
7 sound.
8 MS. SOUTH: So can I direct my question back to the
9 City --
10 MR. GLOSS: Yes, yes.
11 MS. SOUTH: -- and ask the City if they've done a
12 sound study and what the impact is and if you guys
13 investigated it at all.
14 MR. JONES: We've got that but that's all the
15 further that we've gone. That's all the further our code --
16 MS. SOUTH: Requires you to go?
17 MR. JONES: -- requires us to go, right.
18 MR. GLOSS: Okay. We had one other question Ms.
19 South had raised and that was about transportation. If we
20 could try to respond to that. We'll get to you, ma'am.
21 MALE SPEAKER: Specific to traffic, I believe, was
22 her issue.
23 MS. SOUTH: That's a correct statement.
24 MALE SPEAKER: I think in our behalf the traffic
25 that we're going to generate is really between our driveway
16
1 and College. It isn't going to generate significant traffic
2 in the other direction.
3 MS. SOUTH: Well, what it's going to do, sir, is
4 when people are pulling out of there and they are going to
5 try to cross the Fossil Creek that's coming in, they're
6 going to try to cross between there and go back out of the
7 subdivision. So, yeah, that's a huge impact. Right now we
8 had to remove trees in the middle barriers that goes down on
9 the parkway. We actually had to remove trees because of
10 visibility. You can't see when a car is coming. You have
11 to get out --
12 MALE SPEAKER: That has nothing to do with the
13 number of cars. That has to do with visibility.
14 MS. SOUTH: And that's what we're going to be
15 facing here, too, sir.
16 MALE SPEAKER: The visibility --
17 MS. SOUTH: The visibility is another issue.
18 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
19 MALE SPEAKER: I think your question had to do with
20 the volume of cars so --
21 MS. SOUTH: Okay. It also had to do with
22 visibility. There are issues in both of those places.
23 MS. HERBERT: We have had a full traffic study done
24 on it which again was required by the City for us to do this
25 procedure and that's quite a thorough study and it generally
17
1 summarized that the amount of traffic that would be
2 generated -- there would be traffic that's generated but
3 it's going to meet acceptable levels in relation to the
4 study that was done here. So --
5 MS. SOUTH: And who did that study?
6 MS. HERBERT: This was a study which was done by a
7 traffic engineer which is part of our team. His name is
8 (Inaudible) . He couldn't be here because of vacation this
9 week so --
10 MS. SOUTH: Does the City do this kind of study or
11 does the City always require the applicant to --
12 MR. JONES: We review (Inaudible) . Correct.
13 Right, and it has to be done by a traffic engineer.
14 MS. SOUTH: And this is by somebody --
15 MR. JONES: Well, the way we regulate sound is not
16 in the Land Use Code but it's in the City Code which is more
17 of a nuisance standard that we can enforce when there is a
18 violation more so than during the development review.
19 MS. SOUTH: So really our only recourse is to
20 develop and if bad and then we have recourse. Is that what
21 you're saying for noise?
22 MR. JONES: That's how we -- we can then, you know,
23 cite a violation at that point. But we did --
24 MS. SOUTH: Wait until the damage is done, kind of
25 like someone dying at an intersection before the stoplight
18
1 is put up.
2 MR. JONES: Well, although we did look at this
3 information then from what we're being -- from what we're
4 reviewing, you know, within 89 feet you're down at 59
5 decibels so --
6 MR. HEFFRON: I can tell you that 59 is a very low
7 level. We have a noise ordinance in Boulder where they have
8 a noise officer who goes around with' a microphone testing
9 things from various businesses to see if there is any
10 offenses and I think they come in at 75 decibels as far as
11 being offensive.
12 MALE SPEAKER: If you can see, the (Inaudible) .
13 It's for a project in Dallas, so it really was not done for
14 this project but it was done for us on a similar project, on
15 a (Inaudible) project. So it was not requested by the City.
16 It was just offered up as an example of the noise levels
17 that we've experienced in other locations just like this
18 one, so not to confuse it with something that the City
19 required us to submit.
20 MS. SOUTH: I would request that the City --
21 request, if you can, require them to submit one from our
22 location. I don't believe that you can take any study from
23 just any random location in the world and say that it's
24 going to relate to the actual location.
25 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
19
1 MS. SOUTH: There's nothing to give us barriers
2 around there.
3 MALE SPEAKER: I don't think sound travels at the
4 same rate anywhere so --
5 MS. SOUTH: It can't. There's got to be other
6 influences. All the other --
7 MALE SPEAKER: The only tools there are, are hard
8 surfaces like -- that's why you see barrier walls alongside
9 freeways.
10 MS. HERBERT: The other thing I was going to point
11 to you is --
12 MALE SPEAKER: Landscape would be a barrier.
13 MS. HERBERT: -- that we have shown up on here --
14 we -- at a very early stage we had a neighborhood meeting
15 and we had concern about the visibility and noise levels and
16 if that would come up, and we do actually have some berming
17 that goes in here and we have some landscaping which was not
18 (Inaudible) but was -- I don't know if it states specific
19 project criteria, how much it would reduce the sound levels,
20 but we have integrated that into the project and very early
21 on, right at the beginning, so that has -- that is now --
22 MS. SOUTH: If that doesn't matter to sound then
23 why did you do that? Because they both stated that it
24 really doesn't matter.
25 MS. HERBERT: Well, we put in berming there which
20
1 was to --
2 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one other. )
3 MALE SPEAKER: Everything that's on the plan is
4 based on City guidelines and standards and that's what we've
5 been going round and round for the last 18 months with the
6 City, is getting our site to meet all their standards which
7 it does currently.
8 MR. HEFFRON: As far as the traffic goes
9 (Inaudible) . I own a Big 0 tire store in Boulder and we
10 have the same conditions except there is not much traffic
11 actually because it takes a long time to change tires. It's
12 not like a drive-in sort of restaurant or medium type of
13 store or anything like that. It doesn't generate that much
14 traffic. We only have 19, 000 square feet and this has
15 100, 000 square feet. We get all of our traffic on our
16 little 19, 000 so just because it's a larger site gives one
17 the benefit of the space for the attenuation of sound but it
18 also insulates the whole area from it visually and
19 otherwise.
20 MS. SOUTH: You're benefiting from them going
21 there. So you're speaking pretty much as a benefactor of
22 the sale of --
23 MR. HEFFRON: Yes.
24 MS. SOUTH: -- this property so you're going to be
25 --
21
1 MR. HEFFRON: But I honestly don't think it is
2 going to be detrimental to you, either.
3 MS. SOUTH: I don't believe it.
4 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: How would you like a Discount Tire
6 by your house?
7 MR. HEFFRON: I can say this far away -- I mean you
8 knew it when you bought the houses that this was
9 commercially zoned land. What would you rather have there?
10 FEMALE SPEAKER: 7-Eleven, Dairy Queen.
11 MS. SOUTH: No.
12 MR. HEFFRON: Talk about traffic.
13 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: Furniture and carpet store.
15 MALE SPEAKER: I worry about noise.
16 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
17 MR. GLOSS: Excuse me, excuse me. Let's everybody
18 just relax just a second. All right. We're kind of losing
19 focus here. Ma'am if you would like to --
20 MS. HOLT: Okay.
21 MR. GLOSS: -- make a comment. And your name --
22 name and address, please.
23 MS. HOLT: Sandra Holt. And who's Troy?
24 MR. JONES: I'm Troy.
. 25 MS. HOLT: Hi, Troy.
22
1 MR. JONES: Hi.
2 MS. HOLT: My name is Sandra Holt. I live at 5510
3 Fossil Ridge East. Troy was kind enough to talk with me
4 over the phone six months ago for an hour and a half and I
5 asked him at that time for the background of how all this
6 occurred so for people like Miss South or, you know -- it
7 was helpful for me because what had happened was that this
8 corner was zoned Commercial C and there's a whole list of
9 things that are Commercial C including small tire repair
10 shops.
11 You know, there could be a carpet store and there
12 could be a, you know, furniture store, and there could be a
13 tire store. So when they rubberstamped it red and
14 Commercial C approved they did not go through a line item
15 veto and say, gee, given that neighborhood, this is going to
16 be too loud or gee, given that property this isn't going to
17 work out too well. They just ruubberstamped it, okay.
18 So when the gentleman who owns the property could
19 sell it he could sell it to anybody on the Commercial C
20 list. So it was, you know, if he chose to line item veto
21 things where they tinker into the neighborhood he could do
22 that. And once they said okay it's all right for a tire
23 store, at that point they couldn't go back and say oh wait,
24 wait, wait, we made a mistake.
25 MS. SOUTH: So what you're saying is this is
23
1 futile, what we're doing?
2 MS. HOLT: Yes.
3 MS. SOUTH: I'm pleased to know.
4 MALE SPEAKER: That's good to know.
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible)
6 MR. JONES: The permitted use in the C zone
7 district is --
8 MS. HOLT: Oh, and then when I asked him --
9 MR. JONES: -- is permitted, so --
10 MS. HOLT: Right. And then when I asked him about
11 the traffic study I said, you know, the sound of the cars
12 travels across this huge field, that's this open land spot.
13 And you have one car going on Fossil Ridge Parkway and you
14 can hear that car in your backyard which is across this huge
15 field. We'll have this BANG, BANG in the ear of the thing
16 going on (Inaudible) . I said what about the traffic on that
17 road and he said the traffic study was designed to see if
18 the road would hold up under the additional cars, not the
19 impact of the quality of life in your neighborhood. And the
20 City thing with the noise -- I asked him about the noise and
21 it was up to the people to tell the truth about the impact
22 of it. It was not up to the people who red rubberstamped it
23 to find out how, what the reality would be to our change of
24 quality of life.
25 MR. JONES: The quality of life is not one of the
24
1 criteria, right.
2 MR. GLOSS: Excuse me. Could you address, this is
3 the applicant and staff, how the traffic study was
4 conducted, a little bit of background information about what
5 it actually looked at in terms of its impacts to not just,
6 sounds like not just College Avenue but the surrounding
7 area, if there is any analysis.
8 MS. HERBERT: Well, I believe the summary and
9 recommendations were based upon the findings in the study
10 that the summary and recommendations were made. The
11 intersection of Fossil Creek and College will operate
12 acceptable levels of service in 2007 both with or without
13 this project, number 1. Number 2, the driveway entrance
14 into the development will also operate acceptable levels of
15 service in 2007 once this development is constructed.
16 Number 3, the site distance to the west provides for an
17 (Inaudible) operating speed of 30 mph along Fossil Creek
18 Parkway. Number 4, this development will construct an
19 exclusive right turn deceleration lane along South College
20 Avenue for access into Fossil Creek Parkway, and 5, no
21 axillary lanes are required at the driver entrance into the
22 development, and 6, adequate multi-level service is provided
23 adjacent to the site.
24 . So -- we don't have the traffic engineer here
25 but --
25
1 MALE SPEAKER: I mean if I could sum it up. We can
2 all take our turns summing it up because we can all read and
3 . understand it, but what I think he is saying is that the
4 levels that the amount of traffic that our project will
5 generate will not adversely impact the flow of traffic on
6 either Fossil Creek and it will actually enhance what we're
7 doing on College because of the decel lane, right-hand turn
8 decel lane.
9 MS. SOUTH: There's already a right-hand decel lane
10 on College.
11 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, but it's not up to these
12 standards.
13 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: The right-hand decel lane is up to
15 standards, your widening to the bike lane.
16 FEMALE SPEAKER: Decel lanes (Inaudible) .
17 MS. HOLT: One final comment I'd like to make about
18 my conversation previously alluded to, was that Troy was
19 really nice and that he said that, you know, if we're
20 having --
21 (Tape turned over. )
22 MS. HOLT: -- check out the five-year City plan
23 because we can put in a petition to the Zoning Board to not
24 zone things Commercial C if we can see what the five-year
25 plan is and take appropriate action six months before they
26
1 meet or whatever we think six months ahead they do the
2 zoning --
3 MR. JONES: Well, currently we're going through the
4 City Plan Update and I think that's what you're referring
5 to, and we revisit our comprehensive plan every five years
6 and right now the Advanced Planning Department has been
7 having some public outreach and that sort of thing on the
8 appropriate land use designations all throughout the City.
9 MS. HOLT: And there's a form that we can fill out
10 for certain parcels that might be, you know, potentially
11 zoned C that say please don't do this and head it off at the
12 pass; is that right?
13 MR. JONES: There's -- well, there's several things -
14 you could do. You could request, you know, that the
15 structure plan be amended or revisited as part of the City
16 Plan Update. If you don't fall within that five-year cycle
17 you can always recommend a structure plan update or a
18 rezoning. There's certain -- as far as rezoning goes
19 there's certain parties that can do it and I don't think
20 neighbors can rezone an adjacent property.
21 I'd have to look it up but as far as structure
22 plan amendments go that would be something the City Council
23 would, you know, ultimately decide whether or not to show,
29 but the station between what the structure plan is and the
25 zoning map structure plan is, are long-term vision for all
i 27
1 property whether it's just outside City limits or whether
2 it's in the City limits as far as land uses go. And the
3 zoning is specific on a property by property basis of when
4 you look at Article 4 in the Land Use Code, here's the
5 regulations that apply to this property so there's a
6 distinction between those two.
7 Typically when a property is newly annexed we look
8 at the structure plan map to decide what to zone it. That
9 process is kind of an evolutionary process and so to kind of
10 follow up, yes, you do have the ability to have input on
11 what things are designated.
12 MS. SOUTH: But as far as this project what we're
13 saying tonight and our opinions that we're voicing are
14 really too late. There's already been rubberstamped the
15 place in the street that they paved a year ago. They've
16 already put the driveway in for this place so is it really
17 just too late and we're just here in frustration for no
18 reason at all?
19 MR. JONES: Well, it depends on what your
20 frustration is and whether or not it brings up something
21 that was overlooked in the criteria that apply, for example.
22 And if you can show this doesn't comply and here's why, your
23 input it, you know, goes a lot further.
24 MS. HOLT: Troy mentioned that there could be like
25 a restriction on hours of operation so when we go to work it
28
1 can be quiet and when we come home it can be quiet, you
2 know. On Sundays it can be quiet.
3 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
4 MALE SPEAKER: We're open Monday through Friday or
5 Monday through Saturday and closed on Sundays.
6 MS. SOUTH: What's your hours?
7 MALE SPEAKER: Usually 8:30 to 5:30. I mean it
8 maybe take a little bit longer to get closed down. If
9 people come in right at 5:30, it's going to take a little
10 bit longer to get them out the door.
11 MR. GLOSS: Yes, sir.
12 MR. CORMAN: My name is Chris Corman. I live at
13 5212 Fossil Ridge Drive. In regards to what you just said,
14 I too, stood out in front of Discount Tire and did a little
15 study for myself. Their hours of operation there, they have
16 been closing down regularly at 6:00 and working 6:45 and
17 even at one time 7:00 at night. Cars have been serviced
18 outside of the garage area. That was pretty much common
19 practice the day I was there.
20 MALE SPEAKER: The hours are one thing but that's a
21 very small facility, it's on a commercial street, and
22 they're limited in what they can do there because it's older
23 and doesn't really conform to our standard way of operating,
24 so that's not going to be the case.
25 MR. CORMAN: Well that's great. I think you guys
• 29
1 have definitely addressed a lot of the concerns of the City.
2 And can you do it? More than likely yes. Should you do it?
3 You really shouldn't. And I'm just one person in a
4 community down there, but we really have a unique area. I
5 feel very fortunate to live there and I'm just absolutely
6 appalled that a community planning organization like the
7 City is allowing this and that you folks have absolutely not
8 had any compassion to the folks that live there and I'm just
9 a little shocked by that. And when you go home tonight and
10 go to sleep just think about the people you impact. For
11 myself when I look out my front window this will be the new
12 view. It's just --
13 MS. SOUTH: And the new sound on your deck.
14 MR. CORMAN: The sound study, I would really like
15 to have Discount Tire stand behind this, and if they do
16 exceed it, what will be the repercussions of that? I know
17 for a fact -- I'm the gearhead that lives on the corner,
18 that pneumatic tools are very noisy. Tire busting is very
19 noisy and all you have to do is go stand in front of
20 Discount Tire down there and you'll listen to that. To hear
21 that six days a week, and let's just say on the good side up
22 until 6:30 every night, you'll absolutely destroy the
23 quality of life there, and I beg the City and the owner of
24 the property to please reconsider this. Discount Tire will
25 not be a welcomed neighbor in that area.
30
1 MR. HEFFRON: You know, there were neighborhood
2 meetings very early on --
3 MR. CORMAN: Actually I was not. I'm a new
4 resident there and --
5 MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) -- recognize you from
6 that first meeting --
7 MR. CORMAN: I sure wish I could have attended
8 them. I would have been there for every one.
9 MR. HEFFRON: Because it's been now two years that
10 this has been deliberated on and they've gone through so
11 many hoops that the City has asked them to do, to conform to
12 these and of course one thing they're doing is a very small
13 complex building .compared to what could be built there.
14 There's over -- there's 114, 000 square feet of land so there
15 could be 35, 000 or 40, 000 square feet of building built
16 there. This is 8, 500.
17 MR. CORMAN: But why does Discount Tire feel that
18 that is a prime location with three tire vendors within one
19 mile?
20 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
21 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. I -- I (Inaudible) myself.
22 MALE SPEAKER: I'm not as surprised as you think I
23 am.
24 MR. HEFFRON: I mean I'm not the operator of the
25 building but in this case they have tried and tried and
31
1 tried to locate. They tried to buy another piece of
2 property from me which was not available. They tried
3 another piece across the street. They have made a very
4 sincere effort and because of those prior efforts they've
5 made an extended effort to satisfy the requirements of this
6 site and the City in this site in order do business. But
7 they have really tried to go in other locations.
8 FEMALE SPEAKER: There doesn't need to be a tire
9 store there. There's three within a mile.
10 MR. CORMAN: It's a bad fit and you people are
11 looking at it as a paycheck. We're looking at it as a
12 quality of life issue.
13 MALE SPEAKER: And I agree with you. We are all in
14 it for our paychecks and I 'm sure you have a job as well as
15 I have a job and I would like to say I proudly put
16 environmental and community concerns first on the list above
17 profits.
18 MALE SPEAKER: We've been looking for property
19 that's appropriately zoned for our use and then we develop
20 it from the standards that are required by the vote of the
21 municipalities and it's exactly what we're doing here and
22 I'm sorry that you have a beef with my company but maybe
23 your beef is with these gentleman and they're responding to
24 their rules as well.
25 MR. CORMAN: I'm disappointed with City Planning
32
1 and I'm just shocked that you people don't care about the
2 community you're coming into and quite honestly if Discount
3 Tire buys there I will go out of my way never to buy a
4 product from Discount Tire. I don't care if I'm riding on
5 the rims, I will go past Discount Tire.
6 MS. HERBERT: Well, we did -- we had two very -- we
7 had two neighborhood meetings (Inaudible) and we did
8 actually have two and it's a shame that maybe you weren't
9 there at the time. You'd be completely involved --
10 MR. CORMAN: I would have loved to be there. I was
11 actually not invited to any of them, and I didn't live there
12 during that time.
13 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. ) -
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: No, our neighbor had to give us
15 this letter.
16 MR. GLOSS: Sir.
17 MR. FIECHTL: My name is Gene Fiechtl. I live at
18 5430 Fossil Court North -
19 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
20 MR. GLOSS: Excuse me. Could we allow -- end the
21 talk? Thank you.
22 MR. FIECHTL: I live at 5430 Fossil Court North and
23 I'm just up the street and around the corner. Do you folks
24 have copies of the minutes of those meetings that you
25 conducted because I am new to the neighborhood as well?
• 33
1 MR. JONES: Yeah, I can get them. I have them in
2 the file. Before you leave tonight I can get you a copy.
3 MR. FIECHTL: And again, to reiterate this
4 gentleman's comments, all I keep hearing is that we followed
5 what the City said and we said that, you know, we hit all
6 the codes and everything but you guys don't care, it's not
7 your house. You know --
8 MS. HOLT: The City doesn't care because --
9 MR. FIECHTL: Yeah, and the City --
10 MS. HOLT: (Inaudible) -- before they rubberstamp
11 something.
12 MR. FIECHTL: And you guys -- I mean you guys don't
13 care because it's not your house. It's not your neighbor,
14 you know, and we do have a neat neighborhood. We have a lot
15 of wildlife around there. We care about our creek that runs
16 through there and there's -- it is a bad thing. You know,
17 if I didn't live there and there wasn't the condo that I
18 also own up in, on Harmony by the Safeway on Harmony and I
19 was going to get my tire changed, the last place I would go
20 is south of Harmony. I mean that I think from a business
21 standpoint it's a terrible location. You guys are out of
22 the loop of everything.
23 MALE SPEAKER: This is our company address. Write
24 us a letter and I'll pass it on to the appropriate
25 management.
34
1 MALE SPEAKER: I'd like one of those.
2 MALE SPEAKER: I have to -- my address is on all
3 the records but here is -- I have like five cards left. You
4 can pass them out.
5 MALE SPEAKER: Maybe we could Xerox them.
6 MALE SPEAKER: I was the staff architect in the
7 Construction Department. I do not get involved in
8 mortgaging properties and I don't --
9 MALE SPEAKER: So you're not with the Marketing
10 Department --
11 MALE SPEAKER: I'm not with the Strategic Planning
12 Department so that when they show me their site they say
13 here's the site we're going to develop and let's develop it
14 and that's what I do. And if you have concerns about their
15 decisions on where to pick sites you're more than welcome to
16 write them a letter and voice your concerns.
17 MS. SOUTH: I have a question.
18 MR. GLOSS: Are you done, Gene?
19 MR. FIECHTL: Yeah, I'm just -- yeah, I'm done for
20 now.
21 MR. GLOSS: Okay, thank you.
22 MS. SOUTH: How many tires, old tires, are stored
23 on the site at a time and --
24 MALE SPEAKER: None on site.
25 MS. SOUTH: No, but how many are stored on-site?
35
1 FEMALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible)
2 MS. SOUTH: Yeah, how does that work cause I'm not
3 familiar with it, I mean, besides the noise. In fact, I'm
4 not really familiar with how long things can stay on-site
5 and --
6 MALE SPEAKER: We get deliveries off and on during
7 the week. We get more than one a week.
8 FEMALE SPEAKER: These are on semi trucks, correct?
9 MALE SPEAKER: Yes.
10 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay.
11 MALE SPEAKER: And then the old tires are stored
12 and on the plan there it's the end of the building on the
13 east side, that smaller area.
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, that's lovely.
15 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
16 MALE SPEAKER: It's fully enclosed. You won't even
17 know it's tires inside there. If you look at the drawings
18 you can see it's fully enclosed so you won't know that
19 there's tires in there versus --
20 MALE SPEAKER: Actually last Thursday there were
21 tires peeking over the top of --
22 MALE SPEAKER: It's fully enclosed. There's a roof
23 on it. I know. That is not a standard.building. It's very
24 old. It's -- you can't judge our operation by that old
25 building. That's why we're building this one.
•
36
1 FEMALE SPEAKER: What are we supposed to judge it
2 by?
3 MALE SPEAKER: Drive down to Denver and look at
4 some of the new ones.
5 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
6 MALE SPEAKER: I'm just saying drive -- you can see
7 a brand new store (Inaudible) down in Arvada.
8 FEMALE SPEAKER: But will there be a house --
9 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
10 MALE SPEAKER: That's not what you asked. You
11 asked how the store would operate and I'm telling you
12 there's a store just like it, go look at it there.
13 MS. SOUTH: So what about if the tires were to
14 catch on fire and contamination to the water supply that is
15 right there, the creek, because there is, from what I've
16 seen, in tire fires there's an oil discharge and there would
17 be found -- the creek is right there. I mean water
18 supply --
19 MALE SPEAKER: We own 500 stores and we've never
20 had a fire at a store. We provide fire sprinklers in our
21 stores, fire suppressant --
22 MS. SOUTH: In this place where all of them are
23 stored there are fire sprinklers?
24 MALE SPEAKER: Yes, completely sprinkled.
25 MS. SOUTH: And will water put out a tire fire?
37
1 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, it won't --
2 MS. SOUTH: It doesn't require some other kind of
3 chemical to put it out? I don't believe --
4 MALE SPEAKER: It wouldn't get started if you have
5 water in there.
6 MALE SPEAKER: If you wait an hour before you put
7 water on it, it might be difficult, but the fire sprinklers
8 go on within minutes of the fire catching.
9 MS. SOUTH: Okay, so --
10 MALE SPEAKER: Like I said, we own 500 stores and
11 we've never had a fire in a store.
12 MS. SOUTH: I understand that but we all have -- we
13 all have to face the time -- there's hundred-year floods,
14 too. You know, things happen and you haven't had one in 500
15 stores. I'm asking what -- is there a plan -- would the
16 water -- the water level in that area is very, very high.
17 It's very close to the surface plus the creek is right
18 there. Has there been any study or anything impact of what
19 would happen to the water supply that is in there and the
20 wildlife that is surrounding it?
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: For drainage --
22 MS. SOUTH: Oh, the real terrible drainage in that
23 area. The water level is right there. What if there was a
24 fire? What's going to happen to the water contamination in
25 this area?
38
1 MALE SPEAKER: So what would happen if there was a
2 fire at your house?
3 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
4 MS. SOUTH: I don't want to have tires.
5 MALE SPEAKER: It's still a fire.
6 MS. SOUTH: No, it --
7 MALE SPEAKER: Jack, it's really nice to meet
8 somebody so incompassionate.
9 MALE SPEAKER: I don't think compassion has
10 anything to do --
11 MALE SPEAKER: Well, I think that should have been
12 a huge factor in the planning --
13 MALE SPEAKER: I think it was originally. I mean
14 it is commercially zoned.
15 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, you've reminded us of that.
16 MALE SPEAKER: That's the --
17 MS. SOUTH: You know, we're just trying to talk
18 about, you know --
19 (Inaudible. Many voices talking over one another. )
20 MS. SOUTH: -- the ecological things, the
21 environmental things --
22 (Inaudible. Many voices talking over one another. )
23 MR. JONES: Yeah, to respond from the City's
24 perspective on that, we routed the plan to the Poudre Fire
25 Authority for them to review and comment and also our
39
1 Natural Resources Department. I remember specific --
2 MR. GLOSS: Can we have one conversation? Could we
3 have one conversation, please? Thank you.
4 MR. JONES: As I was saying, we routed Poudre Fire
5 Authority and the Natural Resources Department copies of
6 this throughout the process so Poudre Fire Authority has
7 commented on the fire code issues. As far as the tire and
8 flood waters go I know that was one comment that we had
9 early on and one of the things we really required and
10 insured and Discount Tire said the response was appropriate
11 in that we didn't want any tires stored outside. We didn't
12 want it to be a fenced area. We wanted it to be enclosed
13 with a door that if a flood comes the tires stay where they
14 are, they don't float downstream. And so that was part of
15 the response that, yes, all the tires will always be inside.
16 MS. SOUTH: Is tire changing the only thing that
17 goes on there? There's not oil --
18 MALE SPEAKER: No brake work or anything like that?
19 MALE SPEAKER: No, no automotive. Just tire sales,
20 installation and tire sales.
21 MS. FIECHTL: I have a question. My name is Molly
22 Fiechtl. I live at 5430 Fossil Court North, and I 'm
23 actually vice-president of the Homeowner's Association
24 board. What is the customer count that you project? How
25 many tires are you going to change on a given day?
i
40
1 MALE SPEAKER: What are your averages? What do you
2 guys do --
3 MS. FIECHTL: What are your projected sales?
4 MALE SPEAKER: I don't have that information.
5 MS. FIECHTL: But how can you conduct an accurate
6 study -
7 MALE SPEAKER: I'm -- I'm sure that -- I'm sorry.
8 MS. FIECTHL: -- of sound and traffic if you don't
9 know how many customers are coming?
10 MALE SPEAKER: Perhaps I should have brought
11 somebody else from the company with me who would have those
12 numbers. I didn't. I'm the architect. I don't have those
13 numbers.
14 MS. FIECHTL: Okay. I'd like to see those numbers
15 if possible.
16 MALE SPEAKER: Is this a franchise store or
17 locally --
18 MALE SPEAKER: No. One man owns all stores.
19 MS. SOUTH: Across the country?
20 MALE SPEAKER: Does he have a name?
21 MALE SPEAKER: Bruce Holly.
22 MS. SOUTH: Across the United States?
23 MALE SPEAKER: Yes. Started the company back in
24 1960.
25 MR. CORMAN: Maybe Bruce Holly would be a good
. 41
1 person to speak to.
2 MALE SPEAKER: He owns the company. He has --
3 MR. CORMAN: I'm sure he's a very busy man but
4 maybe he --
5 MALE SPEAKER: You're being very argumentative with
6 this attitude.
7 MR. CORMAN: I'm very upset.
8 MALE SPEAKER: Okay. I understand that.
9 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
10 MALE SPEAKER: Mr. Holly is a very nice guy and if
11 it wasn't somebody else's job to talk at these meetings he
12 would do that, but like I said he's running a very large
13 company so -
14 MR. CORMAN: I apologize if I'm coming off gruff
15 but you are impacting my way of life and I do take that
16 personal, I'm sorry.
17 MALE SPEAKER: Just trying to keep objective and
18 that's --
19 FEMALE SPEAKER: Property values --
20 FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah.
21 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
22 FEMALE SPEAKER: -- going to affect our home, you
23 know.
24 MS. HERBERT: What was based -- in answer to your
25 question on that, based on the figures of the traffic study
42
1 and -- you know, they take the square footage of the
2 building and they note -- the traffic engineer -- they base _
3 it on the criteria. The average day traffic volume
4 according to this is 23 --
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: Vehicles?
6 MS. HERBERT: -- vehicles a day.
7 FEMALE SPEAKER: There's -- so you're saying you
8 only project 23 vehicles to --
9 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
10 MALE SPEAKER: I can tell you that that's probably
11 not accurate. That's based on --
12 FEMALE SPEAKER: So your traffic study is based on
13 numbers that aren't even part of reality. So one could say
14 that your traffic study is not based on a solid foundation
15 of actual facts and numbers --
16 MS. HERBERT: Well, it is based on --
17 FEMALE SPEAKER: -- turnover, how many cars are
18 going to be coming in there.
19 MALE SPEAKER: We did the study on behalf of the
20 City. Let's let them --
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay.
22 MALE SPEAKER: -- express it.
23 MR. GLOSS: If we could just have a moment. If
24 we'd like to go ahead and start looking at the document and
25 wanted to see if you could come to any conclusions about the
93
1 analysis that's been done and in the meantime, were there
2 any other questions or comments?
3 MALE SPEAKER: I have a question for the City and
4 if this discussion is not appropriate you can tell me
5 because I've missed -- I didn't get through these. Are we
6 passed the stage where we can get a petition to stop this?
7 MS. SOUTH: Uh-huh, it's over.
8 MALE SPEAKER: Because --
9 MR. GLOSS: Let me explain. Let me explain the
10 criteria that we used to, that I'm using to judge this
11 application and make a decision. We have, as I started out
12 the hearing, really two sections of the code. One is the
13 use standards and I think it was appropriately stated that
14 this is zoned commercial. This use is allowed; C
15 Commercial. The use is permitted. So I think it's very
16 clear that the use is permitted on this property and I could
17 not make a finding that it is inappropriate to put the use
18 there.
19 Now the bigger question is, does it meet all of
20 our development standards and there are a series of them.
21 As you all have mentioned, there are issues related to
22 traffic, to noise, to environmental issues, to fire
23 suppression, and these are all regulated through the City's
24 code. In the case of fire, there's actually a Uniform Fire
25 Code that's applied. So my job is to evaluate every aspect
44
1 of this project relative to those standards; including the
2 sound study that was done, the transportation impact study,
3 the fire sprinkler system that was provided. And it will be
4 my job to confer with who I think it's necessary in this
5 case; the consulting traffic engineer, the City's traffic
6 engineer to confirm whether this study is indeed accurate.
7 From our staff members that have the expertise and sound
8 attenuation to understand, you know, how accurate the study
9 is and I may have to go outside to get consultant assistants
10 to determine whether that is accurate and that's my job.
11 And I will be diligent at getting the proper parties
12 involved, but I can tell you if it is found that the
13 standards are met for all these areas that you have concerns
14 about, I will be approving the project. And if there are
15 any inconsistencies or areas that specifically need to be
16 addressed it may be that I add conditions of approval. An
17 example of that would be hours of operation. If the
18 applicant is making some statements about hours of operation
19 and I can find something based on our code that could limit
20 those hours then I'll do so and they will be bound legally
21 to those hours of operation.
22 So those are some things that I may have some
23 latitude in looking at, but I'll be honest with you, I'm
24 going to have to take a good, hard look at the applicant's
25 proposal, the standards and how I can apply them and use my
95
1 discretion legally. And, you know, I can't promise
2 everything.
3 One thing I'd like to do before we leave this
4 hearing this hearing this evening, is to allow the applicant
5 -- because the applicant has heard a lot of these issues --
6 to maybe share with the group what they can do to address
7 some of the concerns. I mean some things have already kind
8 of been laid on the table about noise for example, where
9 you've said you've done the study and you feel satisfied.
10 But an example would be hours of operation where I think you
11 made a statement that there's some hours that you typically
12 operate under.
13 If you could share with the group if you
14 understand that your company could stick by those. And
15 that's the kind of thing -- you don't have to answer that
16 right now but when we get to the end, you know, I'd like to
17 see if there is any kind of common ground we can come to.
18 But also just to recap for everybody and make it crystal
19 clear I have to follow the legal parameters that's based on
20 the City code. I can't require something that goes above
21 and beyond the standards even if it makes it more acceptable
22 to you all.
23 FEMALE SPEAKER: For quality of life --
24 MR. GLOSS: Yeah. You have to understand that. I
25 can only do so much. I'm sorry, go ahead.
•
46
1 MS. HOLT: I'm sorry. What was your name?
2 MR. GLOSS: Cameron Gloss.
3 MS. HOLT: Cameron Gloss.
4 MR. GLOSS: I'm the current Planning Director here
5 for the City.
6 MS. HOLT: When I talked with Troy six months ago
7 before the last meeting, I asked for the City people to get
8 engineers out there to do the actual studies -- for the City
9 to do the actual, you know, traffic impact studies from your
10 office --
11 MR. GLOSS: Uh-huh.
12 MS. HOLT: -- and that was before the last meeting
13 months and months ago. Now you're saying you're going to be
14 very diligent when we've gone already this far with now the
15 driveway and all that kind of thing, and what I'm wondering
16 was where was the diligence earlier on when it was
17 requested?
18 MR. GLOSS: Well, what typically happens is that
19 the City's traffic engineer or designee in his office gets a
20 copy of this traffic transportation impact study and reviews
21 it for being complete and accurate. And what I would do is
22 go back to the traffic engineer or find out who in his
23 office did the analysis and go through the numbers and make
24 certain that they're convinced that it is accurate, because
25 we had one comment that was raised earlier about some
97
1 assumptions that were made. I want to make certain that
2 everybody agrees to the assumptions. Katie, why don't you
3 go ahead.
4 FEMALE SPEAKER: The trips that you were looking at
5 previously are only the peak hour trips so that's --
6 MALE SPEAKER: Twenty-three per hour.
7 FEMALE SPEAKER: Twenty-three in your busiest hour.
8 MS. SOUTH: Per hour?
9 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
10 FEMALE SPEAKER: That's 23 in the busiest hour of
11 the day. Their weekday trips average 214 trips per day.
12 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
13 MALE SPEAKER: I have a follow-up question to my
14 first question.
15 MR. GLOSS: Okay. Go ahead, yes.
16 MALE SPEAKER: Would -- I guess I never did hear
17 about the petition thing, so I'm assuming that the answer is
18 no, but if we were City residents living around this --
19 FEMALE SPEAKER: Versus County.
20 MALE SPEAKER: -- versus County residents, would
21 your responsibility to us be different or are we just like
22 the redheaded stepchildren?
23 MS. SOUTH: I challenge that.
24 MR. GLOSS: I'd have to say that we're operating
25 under the City's Land Use regulations and the codes that we
•
48
1 have in place and it really doesn't matter what
2 jurisdiction --
3 MALE SPEAKER: (Inaudible) -- City offices --
4 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: So we don't have a district
6 (Inaudible) We don't have a council member --
7 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
8 MR. GLOSS: You know, I understand that but it's
9 still my role to evaluate this project against very specific
10 criteria.
11 MALE SPEAKER: But we have zero representation. I
12 mean we have zero representation. We have no City Council
13 member. We have just you guys telling us what you're going
14 to do. We got this guy over here sure to put in a tire
15 store and the guy next to him, he's laughing all the way to
16 the bank. And we have to suffer because of that and we have
17 zero representation and it's just not -- I mean I don't
18 understand where it's equitable for us. Where is our voice
19 being heard? Sure we have meetings but we have no power at
20 those meetings. These guys don't care.
21 MR. GLOSS: Right.
22 MALE SPEAKER: I mean, no offense, but from a
23 business standpoint Discount Tire doesn't care. They could
24 give a you-know-what about us. They could care less.
25 MR. GLOSS: Talk about public comment. We've been
. 49
1 trying to provide opportunities as an organization, I think
2 through two neighborhood meetings that were provided, as
3 well as this public hearing. And I don't want everybody
4 here to think that this is a, you know, fait accompli, a
5 done deal because I don't -- because it's not. But I want
6 to also make it very clear that we're operating under some
7 very specific rules and the fact of the matter is, that if
8 they meet those rules that I will approve this project.
9 MALE SPEAKER: -- meets those rules.
10 MR. GLOSS: Yeah.
11 FEMALE SPEAKER: What's the point of a public
. 12 hearing if you're not hearing us?
13 MR. GLOSS: No. Let me --
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: I mean if we have no sway, if our
15 voice has no weight then what's the purpose of even allowing
16 us to speak, just to push off some steam or --
17 MR. GLOSS: No. I guess there's probably two
18 responses to your question. The first is that there may be
19 some issues that have been overlooked clearly by the staff
20 and the applicant and it's my job to make certain that all
21 the details have been attended to and that indeed it does
22 meet up to City standards, so that's one thing.
23 And then secondly, you know, as difficult as this
24 process is for all of us to sit around the table and argue
25 and frankly argue about these issues, I do think it is an
50
1 opportunity for the applicant to hear what the concerns are
2 and to the extent that they reasonably can accommodate that
3 through the design of the building and so forth, they may be
4 able to offer some suggestions and may be able to agree to
5 some changes but that's entirely up to the applicant in
6 those cases. We can only as the City can have them meet
7 certain requirements and above and beyond that it's really
8 at their, you know, agreement.
9 FEMALE SPEAKER: When was this property zoned
10 Commercial C?
11 MR. GLOSS: You know, I'll be honest with you, I
12 don't know.
13 MR. HEFFRON: (Inaudible) -- already zoned
14 commercial at that time in the County. It was annexed to
15 the City as commercial --.
16 MR. JONES: It was annexed in April of 1985.
17 FEMALE SPEAKER: So the development -- the
18 residential development in the area wasn't -- I mean I know
19 my townhome has been there that long but --
20 MS. SOUTH: So has ours. I mean our house
21 (Inaudible) since the mid-70's.
22 MR. HEFFRON: I think that the same person who
23 platted the land that you live on platted this -- Mr.
29 Griffith, I think his name was -- and he decided this
25 commercial at the same time he platted that residential.
51
1 FEMALE SPEAKER: What are the penalties if they
2 exceed the noise or hours of operation? I designed a
3 program before that was government certified accreditation
4 and I had to have in writing -- the only thing I could have
5 in writing was the penalty, the penalty paper and what the
6 punishment was going to be if people didn't comply and so
7 that's what I'm asking.
8 MR. JONES: We have a zoning violation procedure
9 which is similar to getting a traffic ticket, so if there's
10 a restriction placed on the approval, for example, hours of
11 operation and they violate that, then a zoning officer can
12 issue them a citation. And what that does is it gives them
13 a certain amount of time to comply and stop violating or
14 there's a court date and they can testify in court same as a
15 traffic ticket and either contest it or not. And if it gets
16 to court the judge in that case has the ability to impose
17 monetary penalty for each day. I think the maximum penalty
18 is like $1,000 a day when there's non-compliance. In other
19 words, the violation is still happening. And that's up to
20 the judge to decide how much and whether or not the
21 violation is there. So that's one way that's it's enforced.
22 FEMALE SPEAKER: So you can get like a video
23 camera? I mean how do -- how do you get the --
24 MR. JONES: Well, the zoning officer would be the
25 one that would issue the violation and so I'm not sure of
52
1 their procedures for checking on that, but it may depend on
2 the violation as to how you prove there's a violation.
3 MS. SOUTH: Do we have to be Paula Woodard if
4 there's a violation and we get something on tape, things
5 that (inaudible) --
6 MR. JONES: Hours of operation, I'm not sure how
7 you'd do that.
8 MALE SPEAKER: I lived in Phoenix and my neighbor
9 was running a landscape business out of his house for awhile
10 and he had all his work trucks and trailers full of trash
11 piled up there and it was against the ordinance to do so.
12 And we called the City on it and they sent out a zoning
13 officer and all you had to do was drive by and take a look
14 and say, yeah, this guy's not in compliance and they wrote
15 him a letter. And they notified everybody in the
16 neighborhood of what they were doing.
17 And to address the hours issue I know that as a
18 company we specify our hours are -- I wish I could quote
19 them -- 8:30 to 5:00 or 8:30 to 5:30, Monday through
20 Saturday, closed on Sundays. What happens is that citizens
21 like yourselves who are not opposed to buying tires from
22 Discount Tire, will show up there right at closing and say,
23 I got to have four new tires, I'm leaving on vacation in the
24 morning.
25 And we -- the manager of that store who is an
. 53
1 employee of that company but he runs that store not
2 independently because it is not his store. It isn't a
3 franchise but he's the manager, at his discretion he says,
4 geez, I want to help these guys out and I want to make sale
5 so I'm going to sell this guy some tires. And it may take
6 him until 6:00 to get tires on that guy's vehicle before he
7 gets him out the door. So as a company we say our hours are
8 such and such and we will stand behind those hours. If the
9 manager chooses to, you know, go over those hours, all we
10 have to do is address the problem and he'll say okay, I've
11 got to close my doors at 5:30 or whatever the hours that we
12 all agree on.
13 It's not an attempt to inconvenience anybody.
14 It's more of an attempt to service the people who have come
15 and are our customers. So it's -- you know, we're a
16 customer-service company, we're customer oriented. We do
17 whatever we can for our customers. That's what drives us
18 and that's why we're a successful company. I know it
19 doesn't address your concerns because you're neighbors, not
20 customers, but that's the reality.
21 MR. CORMAN: And from what you just said you're
22 really not concerned about neighbor relations.
23 MALE SPEAKER: Well, we wouldn't buy this property
24 if it was zoned residential and we had to get a zone change.
25 We wouldn't go to all the trouble of saying we're going to
54
1 ram the zone down these guys' throat because we got to be on
2 that corner. No, we went after this property that was zoned
3 correctly for our use.
4 MR. CORMAN: I just want you to remember Bonnie
5 because she will be impacted 110% --
6 MALE SPEAKER: And I understand that but I --
7 MR. CORMAN: -- and just remember her in the future
8 because it's really sad that this is happening.
9 MALE SPEAKER: Okay. Well, I'm addressing the
10 objective part of this. The subjective Ican't address. I
11 can't help that.
12 MS. SOUTH: So could we -- could request that in
13 your diligence the hours of operation being restricted?
14 MALE SPEAKER: Again, we put that in our initial
15 description of the project, I believe, what our hours were.
16 Correct me if I'm wrong, Troy, but I think that --
17 MR. JONES: That -- that's sounds correct and it
18 sounds consistent with what you said and I know we've got --
19 I'd have to look -- I'd have to look at how we address that,
20 but it --
21 MALE SPEAKER: But my point being is that our hours
22 are already in the record unless they're not restrictive
23 enough, but we believe --
24 MR. JONES: Okay.
25 MR. GLOSS: We need to -- we'll need to check
55
1 that. And I guess I -- what I'm hearing, though, from the
2 applicant is that the hours that have been submitted as part
3 of the application, and I would like, if you could look that
4 up before we leave here this evening, that you would not be
5 willing to modify those hours. I just want to make that
6 clear for the record.
7 MALE SPEAKER: I won't say we're not going to
8 modify them. I'm just saying those are our standard
9 hours --
10 MR. GLOSS: Okay.
11 MALE SPEAKER: -- in over 520 stores.
12 MS. SOUTH: And Number 2, could we request any
13 noise study on-site? Could we also request the true traffic
14 impact? There were 250, correct me if I'm wrong, 250
15 homeowners right there --
16 FEMALE SPEAKER: 269.
17 MS. SOUTH: -- 269 homeowners. So if, you know,
18 we're talking about that many more cars, almost as many as
19 we have residents in that area coming into -- and, you know,
20 granted you all think it shows the beginning of the
21 neighborhood, but the entire neighborhood flows through that
22 intersection. Every --
23 MALE SPEAKER: Not to mention Huntington Hills --
24 MS. SOUTH: Right.
25 MALE SPEAKER: -- and Fossil Creek Condominiums.
56
1 MS. SOUTH: That's right. So there's a lot of
2 traffic that goes through there. We're talking almost as
3 many more cars a day as residents that live just in Fossil
4 Creek, and so if we could request those three issues to
5 diligently be looked at.
6 FEMALE SPEAKER: I have another issue.
7 MR. HEFFRON: (Inaudible) -- on the sound study.
8 MR. GLOSS: Yes.
9 MR. HEFFRON: -- I think it would be impossible to
10 make a realistic sound study of the building without the
11 berms, without the trees. In other words, to come up with
12 -- I'm saying why you want --
13 MALE SPEAKER: But I thought he had other stores in
14 other locations that were just like this.
15 MR. HEFFRON: Right. If that's the case then --
16 MALE SPEAKER: Isn't there one in Dallas or
17 something?
18 MR. HEFFRON: Yeah. But if in fact that is a
19 realistic study or an acoustic engineer would say yes, the
20 buildings are the same, what impact would a berm here or
21 trees there or this sort of thing have on it, that's the
22 only kind of a sound study we think it would really do. We
23 could have whoever did the one for Dallas or wherever that
24 was done, look at this site with the specifics of it and
25 say, yes, what we showed for Dallas would be true with the
57
1 exception that these things would vary because of the
2 circumstances.
3 MS. SOUTH: So, you know, I'm not a bright person
4 at all and obviously haven't done a noise study, that's not
5 my area of expertise, but it's really disconcerting to me
6 that when I talk about it in the first place, that it really
7 didn't matter if there was a hill here or whatever that
8 noise travels the same, it really wasn't an issue and now
9 you want to bring up well, we can put a berm here or --
10 MALE SPEAKER: No, that's not what --
11 (Inaudible. Many voices talking over one another. )
12 MALE SPEAKER: That was already -- hang on. That's
13 not -- I think you misinterpreted what was said.
14 MS. SOUTH: I'm sorry. Did I misunderstand?
15 MALE SPEAKER: I'll restate it then.
16 MS. SOUTH: Okay.
17 MALE SPEAKER: The study that we chose -- the study
18 that I handed in is courtesy (inaudible) . For this project
19 shows sound traveling or noise levels measured at a specific
20 distance away from the front of the store without any kind
21 of sound attenuation whatsoever. No berming --
22 FEMALE SPEAKER: During peak hours?
23 MALE SPEAKER: You know, he didn't address that in
24 this study.
25 MALE SPEAKER: I think actually --
58
1 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
2 MALE SPEAKER: Decibels are measured in, you know,
3 in an instant.
4 FEMALE SPEAKER: Right, but was it measured at, you
5 know, noon or 5:30 when they were closing up or --
6 MALE SPEAKER: It doesn't say. You can read it.
7 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay.
8 MALE SPEAKER: There are certain things you can
9 physically do to negate noise levels. Distance is probably
10 the best thing you can do, separate you by distance. Hard
11 surfaces is the next best thing and the most effective
12 change you can make. Landscaping is really ineffective.
13 You can't put up trees to stop sound waves in my experience.
14 MS. SOUTH: I live right behind -- I border Mr.
15 Heffron's other lot (Inaudible) from that lot but --
16 (Inaudible. Many voices talking over one another. )
17 MS. HERBERT: The traffic generated by it.
18 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
19 MALE SPEAKER: -- church on Wednesday nights.
20 MALE SPEAKER: Got to go somewhere for confession,
21 I guess.
22 MS. SOUTH: So anyway, I happen to also go to one
23 of the churches that is already in that area. People -- I
24 can be in my backyard on my deck and people can be standing
25 at that church at the front door which is 300 feet from my
. 59
1 backyard at least, maybe more, and I can hear a
2 conversation. So when you tell me that, you know, there's a
3 difference, there's not a difference in how noise is
4 absorbed. I can hear. I can hear conversation. I can hear
5 voices just from the front door of that church to my
6 backyard.
7 MR. HEFFRON: Of course, I don't think anyone is
8 suggesting they can insulate you from that level of sound
9 if, in fact, that is a conversation.
10 MS. SOUTH: I'm not as concerned about voices.
11 MR. HEFFRON: Yeah. No, I mean if the impact
12 wrench makes the same degree of decibel impact as --
13 MALE SPEAKER: A decibel is a decibel. It doesn't
14 matter if it's an impact wrench or a voice. A decibel is a
15 decibel.
16 FEMALE SPEAKER: Seventy-nine is high.
17 MALE SPEAKER: Pardon?
18 FEMALE SPEAKER: Seventy-nine decibels is a high
19 number.
20 MR. HEFFRON: It's 59, isn't it?
21 MALE SPEAKER: It's 59 and decreasing at 90 feet.
22 MS. SOUTH: This is 30 feet and this is 90 feet --
23 MALE SPEAKER: And 90 feet away. It's 59 and going
24 down as it gets further away. If you get to 500 feet --
25 FEMALE SPEAKER: But it travels across the field
•
60
1 like traveling across --
2 MALE SPEAKER: It doesn't matter if it travels
3 across a field or an asphalt parking lot.
4 FEMALE SPEAKER: It echos.
5 MALE SPEAKER: Sound waves grow shorter and
6 therefore the decibel level goes down. That's physics.
7 MR. CORMAN: I have just a quick comment. You said
8 earlier that you were putting in the berm and the trees to
9 help mitigate sound.
10 MALE SPEAKER: I don't know why we're talking about
11 the berm and the trees. Don't -- -
12 MR. CORMAN: And -- please let me finish, sir.
13 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
14 MR. CORMAN: Correct me if I'm wrong. You just
15 said trees and berms do not --
16 MALE SPEAKER: We're not putting in that berm and
17 those trees as sound attenuation because that's not why we
18 were told to put them in. It is a landscaping requirement.
19 MR. CORMAN: But did you not just tell us that?
20 MS. HERBERT: Well, I -- no, I (inaudible) when I
21 said that. What I said is we put this in to help with
22 screening and so --
23 MALE SPEAKER: Visual --
24 MALE SPEAKER: So you just accidentally --
25 MS. HERBERT: -- but we didn't -- we didn't have to
61
1 put in a berm or these evergreen trees.
2 MALE SPEAKER: I'm just trying to make sure you two
3 get on the same page.
4 MS. HERBERT: Yeah, yeah.
5 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
6 MS. HERBERT: But I don't know, I think we had put
7 some berming in here and put some trees which were not
8 necessarily required by code for us to have to put in.
9 MALE SPEAKER: How high is the berm?
10 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
11 MALE SPEAKER: It's the visual screening of the
12 parking lot from the surrounding streets in the area and
13 you'll back me up on the map.
14 MR. JONES: That's the purpose from the code
15 criteria standpoint, yeah, to screen the view.
16 MS. HERBERT: But we have the parking lot that
17 we --
18 MALE SPEAKER: Visual screening.
19 MS. HERBERT: Visual screening.
20 MALE SPEAKER: Let's be real clear about what we're
21 talking about, visual screening.
22 MALE SPEAKER: What -- and I shouldn't be saying
23 this -- what about wall surfaces in the building as far as
24 absorbing sound?
25 MALE SPEAKER: That's not a factor either because
62
1 the noise is going to exit the front of the building. You
2 can put insulated doors up but I don't think --
3 MALE SPEAKER: Actually acoustic tiles would help
4 considerably with that kind of noise.
5 MR. HEFFRON: On the ceiling or --
6 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, there's several different
7 varieties I'm quite familiar with.
8 MALE SPEAKER: You're right. Acoustic tiles in an
9 enclosed room such as this, that's why they're in a room
10 like this because it does absorb sound.
11 MALE SPEAKER: And water.
12 MS. FIECHTL: Speaking of water, I have a great
13 deal of familiarity with drainage issues in our homeowner's
14 association. I'm on the board and we're dealing with, I
15 can't even count them, homeowners or businesses with
16 drainage. So from the environmental side of things, what is
17 the drainage into Fossil Creek, the storm water drainage, I
18 believe, is one of the issues that I'm familiar with
19 Discount Tire, they plan on running their water into the
20 creek --
21 MS. SOUTH: From the creek?
22 MALE SPEAKER: The drain from the parking lot.
23 MS. FIECHTL: The storm water drainage is going
24 into Fossil Creek.
25 MS. SOUTH: The one where the bridge floods all the
63
1 time?
2 MS. FIECHTL: Yeah, the one where the bridge which
3 the City studied in their five-year plan said was inadequate
4 in a hundred-year flood or something like that. Are you
5 familiar with the study that I'm talking about?
6 MR. JONES: The bridge study, I'm not, no.
7 MS. FIECHTL: The Fossil Ridge Drive Bridge --
8 MS. SOUTH: Going to the south.
9 MS. FIECHTL: It opens to the townhomes there.
10 There's a one way in, one way out and it floods on occasion.
11 It's probably flooded twice in five years so far.
• 12 MS. HOLT: This is the $20 million bridging plan.
13 Are you familiar with that?
14 MR. JONES: We have a storm water department that
15 goes over this level of review and I really haven't been
16 part of it. Do you know much about that?
17 FEMALE SPEAKER: No. Jack?
18 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, they've actually reviewed it
19 quite intensely. In fact, we had to do a computer study of
20 it and meet the City's standards. We've also created --
21 MS. FIECHTL: It does not meet the .City's
22 standards.
23 MALE SPEAKER: It does meet the City standards.
24 MS. FIECHTL: The bridge?
25 MALE SPEAKER: Our study --
64
1 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
2 MALE SPEAKER: It has nothing to do with your
3 bridge. You actually detain the water on our site and
4 releasing it to your historic bridge which is what's
5 required by law. But also, in addition to that, we're
6 having to put in a 40-hour retention pond so any sediment or
7 anything of coming off the site will settle into this pond.
8 MS. SOUTH: Okay. Where is the pond?
9 MALE SPEAKER: It's below -- it's right in there.
10 MALE SPEAKER: Is that a leach field?
11 MALE SPEAKER: No leach field.
12 MALE SPEAKER: Is it just a stone-lined pond?
13 MALE SPEAKER: It will be just a grass-lined pond.
14 MALE SPEAKER: So the oil will --
15 MALE SPEAKER: So it will evaporate and -- water
16 will evaporate out of it in 48 hours.
17 MALE SPEAKER: And the oils?
18 MALE SPEAKER: The oils will go into the soil there
19 and then they'll have to do a maintenance program which the
20 Storm Drainage Department monitors.
21 MS. FIECHTL: When you say they'll have to do a
22 maintenance program --
23 MALE SPEAKER: The owner of the property.
24 MALE SPEAKER: Any developer of this property would
25 have to do that.
65
1 MALE SPEAKER: Any developer of the property has to
2 do that --
3 MS. FIECHTL: Okay.
4 MALE SPEAKER: -- and it's for sedimentation of any
5 kind. It doesn't matter what settles.
6 MS. FIECHTL: Right. Well, I'm speaking on the
7 environmental concerns of the creek which is right there.
8 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, and that's what the City is
9 very, very concerned with that and so are we.
10 MS. FIECHTL: Right. And then the drainage. So my
11 understanding of physics is when you have development and it
12 rains, the more concrete you have the more runoff you have
13 and we already have a really huge runoff problem in crawl .
14 spaces, in streets --
15 MALE SPEAKER: The design of our site, though, you
16 know, meets the criteria that the City set up for
17 post-development standards. In other words, we cannot
18 exceed predevelopment current standards with our proposal.
19 Right now it is a grass field and whatever water drains off
20 that grass field we're going to drain off that site at the
21 same rate by creating structures.
22 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
23 MALE SPEAKER: And it's just a parking lot that
24 we're talking about.
25 MALE SPEAKER: We can't help the bridge. It's
66
1 already inundated every time it's going to rain because it's
2 just not designed correctly.
3 MS. SOUTH: But that's where the runoff will go
4 into, that same stream.
5 MALE SPEAKER: Our runoff will go there but it will
6 also be less than what's coming off of there now.
7 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
8 FEMALE SPEAKER: Grass? That's going to go into
9 the creek.
10 MALE SPEAKER: That's going to leach into the creek
11 eventually.
12 FEMALE SPEAKER: And it's going to give us a lot of
13 West Nile mosquitos.
14 MALE SPEAKER: Do you not have West Niles now?
15 FEMALE SPEAKER: Yeah, not yet.
16 MR. GLOSS: Is there --
17 MS. FIECHTL: My concern is the drainage because
16 I'm currently working on, I don't know how many easements
19 with the board, as far as somebody wants to drain this and
20 somebody's sewage line and, I mean I can't --
21 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah.
22 MS. FIECHTL: -- and so my concern right now, this
23 is a pretty red flag to me.
24 MALE SPEAKER: Fossil Creek does have problems all
25 the way along it, especially in your area.
. 67
1 MS. FIECHTL: Right. But I don't see your project
2 as helping it.
3 MALE SPEAKER: Actually we are. We do see runoff
4 except during the hundred-year storm it will be identical
5 because where the pond is and everything is going to be --
6 MS. FIECHTL: Right. But the downstream or the
7 bridge --
8 MALE SPEAKER: Downstream --
9 MS. FIECHTL: Further from there still is not
10 adequate as it is.
11 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah. We're not doing anything with
• 12 that.
13 MS. HOLT: I don't want the oil to go into the
14 ground. I don't want --
15 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
16 MALE SPEAKER: Actually you do get oil runoff
17 from --
18 MALE SPEAKER: Any parking lot -- anybody who
19 develops this site will do it the same way we're going to do
20 it according to City guidelines and state environmental
21 guidelines for that matter. That's what the grass swale is
22 for, to clean the runoff before it gets off the side, all in
23 accordance with the guidelines.
24 FEMALE SPEAKER: And that was just my question.
25 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
•
68
1 MS. SOUTH: The main entry -- is the main street
2 through there the City's now or the County's?
3 MS. FIECHTL: The County owns underneath but the
4 City is responsible for maintaining the surface and I'm not
5 sure for how long.
6 FEMALE SPEAKER: Ibelieve actually the road up
7 until about here has been annexed, so it is City owned at
8 this point.
9 MS. FIECHTL: Up to the entrance to this
10 (Inaudible) or to Fossil Ridge Drive?
11 FEMALE SPEAKER: Up to about here.
12 MS. FIECHTL: Right about Fossil Ridge Drive.
13 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: Wherever it goes from City to
15 County.
16 MALE SPEAKER: That has a lot to do with tax base.
17 MS. HOLT: And I've gone down Carpenter Road the
18 other day and I go around that pond on Carpenter Road out to
19 Windsor --
20 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah.
21 MS. HOLT: -- and when the water gets low it smells
22 so bad, it reeks. Are we going to have a stinky pond?
23 MALE SPEAKER: Probably.
24 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
25 FEMALE SPEAKER: I don't want a stinky neighborhood
69
1 on top of everything else.
2 MALE SPEAKER: I don't think so. I think if you go
3 look at detention ponds throughout the City and go walk
4 through and smell them, they're not too bad.
5 MALE SPEAKER: There's nothing in them.
6 FEMALE SPEAKER: Not too bad? Anything is --
7 (Inaudible,. Many voices speaking over one another. )
8 MS. FIECHTL: Our water table is already -- there's
9 standing -- I mean there's standing water in people's homes
10 right now probably, so to say that there might not be
11 water --
12 MS. SOUTH: The history of Fossil Creek is it was a
13 cattail farm before Mr. Griffith came in and developed it
14 and put an underground clay pipe --
is MS. FIECHTL: Exactly.
16 MS. SOUTH: -- to drain off the water just enough
17 to build homes and then he left town.
18 MALE SPEAKER: Moved to Arizona.
19 MS. SOUTH: And we've been dealing with that our
20 entire life there.
21 MS. FIECHTL: So I don't see this -- anyway, my
22 point is that I don't see it helping us in that aspect.
23 MS. SOUTH: Aren't there other commercial retention
24 ponds that we could -- I mean --
25 MALE SPEAKER: There's one on the north side of our
•
70
1 north lot, the (Inaudible) built one there.
2 MS. SOUTH: I live right behind there. Where is it
3 at?
4 MALE SPEAKER: It's at the southeast corner of
5 their land.
6 MS. SOUTH: That would be my backyard.
7 MALE SPEAKER: Yes.
8 MS. SOUTH: There's a ditch through there.
9 MR. HEFFRON: Well, now this is on the northwest
10 side of the intersection of their driveway on Snead Drive.
11 MS. SOUTH: Oh, right by College Avenue, that whole
12 area --
13 MALE SPEAKER: No, no. It's back by Snead.
14 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
15 MALE SPEAKER: So it's right there across the
16 street.
17 MALE SPEAKER: Go west.
18 MALE SPEAKER: There's one right in there and
19 there's also one right --
20 MALE SPEAKER: And I think the water -- I think the
21 Water/Sewer Department built one, too, on their property.
22 MS. SOUTH: They put a French drain around their
23 system, 14 foot deep around my house, both sides. They are
24 a good neighbor. They are a good neighbor.
25 MALE SPEAKER: So it's right there. See the
• 71
1 depression. You can see the photographic lines around it.
2 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, but it is a retention pond.
3 See, the one here, I think, is more of a channeling of this
4 one right there, right out of the C.
5 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
6 MALE SPEAKER: The purpose of a pond is to catch,
7 in the event of heavy rains, and not that it has water on a
8 normal basis and that's, as I point out, is again up here,
9 was designed to catch water as it runs off so that it
10 doesn't dump so much into a flood channel.
11 MR. GLOSS: Okay. Are there any other comments?
12 MR. CORMAN: Well, I 'll just say one last one,
13 cause I just can't keep my mouth shut. If anything in this
14 meeting -- and I thank all of you all for attending -- I
15 really wish that Discount Tire could have sent up some of
16 the people that put these together. But if anything, what
17 you've proven to me is that their stories don't really
18 collaborate very well and I'm really worried about the noise
19 study and I hope the City takes that seriously and I just
20 beg of you to reconsider this project.
21 MS. HERBERT: I'd like to say one thing on the part
22 of the planning of the applicant. We as a team have worked
23 very hard on this for the last two years. We had to meet
24 all of the City criteria. We've had two neighborhood
25 meetings when I think we really only meant to have one but
•
72
1 we've really tried to work very closely with neighbors, with
2 the City on how to make sure we've got a good project here
3 for what it did.
4 It is a good building. It is good landscaping, be
5 sensitive to all requirements we have here. We considered
6 natural resources that required us to put some (Inaudible)
7 trees in here. But overall I'm going to try to make sure we
8 can tie everything in the best way that we can. We put in
9 some additional landscaping in here. So I think we really
10 tried to work very hard to try to get it all to work in the
11 best way as possible.
12 MR. CORMAN: And I agree with you. You've worked
13 hard, but I still think the bottom line is not if you can
14 but should this project be there and for me it's absolutely
15 no.
16 MS. FIECHTL: I just have a little -- what about
17 signage? I haven't seen any signage? Are you going to have
18 like neon Discount Tire all around the building?
19 MALE SPEAKER: We're proposing internally lit
20 letters on three sides, here, here, and then --
21 MS. FIECHTL: What are these facing? One on each
22 side?
23 MALE SPEAKER: Well, I guess --
24 MS. FIECHTL: South, east.
25 MALE SPEAKER: This is Fossil Creek, this is
73
1 College.
2 MS. FIECHTL: Okay. So west, south, and north?
3 MS. SOUTH: Well, probably east, west, and north.
4 MALE SPEAKER: East, west, and south.
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay.
6 MS. SOUTH: And those are all 24-hour signs?
7 MALE SPEAKER: No.
8 MALE SPEAKER: North, east, and south?
9 MALE SPEAKER: I'm sorry. South, west, and north.
10 MS. SOUTH: So there's nothing on Fossil Creek?
11 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
12 FEMALE SPEAKER: And those are on during the day?
13 MALE SPEAKER: It would only be during store hours.
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: Only store hours?
15 MALE SPEAKER: I believe that's the case, yes.
16 MALE SPEAKER: And how about a freestanding sign?
17 Is there any?
18 MALE SPEAKER: We have none proposed.
19 MS. HERBERT: No.
20 FEMALE SPEAKER: So where are you going to draw
21 your business from, I mean neighborhood or --
22 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
23 FEMALE SPEAKER: I mean College is the --
24 MALE SPEAKER: Word of mouth, satisfied customers.
25 FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes, exactly. But College is the
74
1 traffic zone. You're telling me that people are just going
2 to kind of see through the trees the Discount Tire --
3 MALE SPEAKER: If they're driving north and south
4 on College they'll see this sign and this sign.
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay.
6 MALE SPEAKER: This is facing College so they'll be
7 looking sideways, they'll see it there.
8 FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. And so you're telling me
9 the lights will definitely be turned off after 5:30 p.m. and
10 not on Sunday at all.
11 MALE SPEAKER: That's my understanding.
12 MALE SPEAKER: Could that be noted also in the --
13 MALE SPEAKER: Uh-huh.
14 MALE SPEAKER: -- list of things the City might be
15 able to back up?
16 MS. FIECHTL: And there is no freestanding sign as
17 well on your current plan?
18 MALE SPEAKER: None proposed.
19 MS. FIECHTL: Okay, great.
20 MR. GLOSS: Okay. One last call. Are there any
21 other comments?
22 MALE SPEAKER: I do hope the City does take into
23 consideration the traffic study because of the 214 cars, but
24 what I understood today, I think is -- yeah, but I don't
25 think you (Inaudible) --
75
1 FEMALE SPEAKER: How long do you have to wait to
2 turn left onto College at the light?
3 MALE SPEAKER: Well, you know the light when you're
4 coming out on Fossil Creek Parkway you have to wait at least
5 four minutes for the light to change on College to go left
6 on College which would be south. You have a lane to go
7 north which is right. But, you know, I know that road
8 pretty well. I've only lived there for five months but I
9 mean when a Discount Tire -- here's all your tires -- semi
10 comes in, you're going to have a huge problem. So I just
11 hope the City really takes that into consideration.
12 MS. CORMAN: It's also --
13 MR. GLOSS: Yes. Say your name.
14 MS. CORMAN: Katie Corman. We also live on -- I
15 mean it's a deadend and the people that are constantly
16 turning around in front of my house will absolutely impact _
17 us also. It happens nonstop as it is now, so put an
18 additional 200 cars, I guarantee they are going to be
19 turning around in front of my home.
20 MS. SOUTH: They can't go straight across -- will
21 the cars be able to go straight across?
22 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah, they'll be able to go straight
23 across it looks like.
24 MS. HERBERT: They're going to be able to come in
25 here and then they're going to be going out --
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1 - MS. CORMAN: I guarantee they're going to be
2 turning around in front of my house.
3 MS. SOUTH: Check it out when you go home because I
4 don't think they're lined up.
5 MALE SPEAKER: Okay. Oh, they probably are but it
6 -- to me it would be worth it to go straight out, but it is
7 irregardless, that many number of cars is just going to be a
8 nightmare.
9 MALE SPEAKER: Are you talking about the new median
10 in Fossil Creek? Oh, it does line up with our driveway, the
11 proposed driveway.
12 FEMALE SPEAKER: To Snead or to what?
13 MALE SPEAKER: All the way.
14 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
15 MALE SPEAKER: The realignment of Snead which is --
16 that's our realignment of Snead.
17 MALE SPEAKER: You're going to realign Snead?
18 MS. SOUTH: What is the plan for Snead Drive?
19 MR. HEFFRON: Whoever develops the north piece of
20 property has to put Snead in and they'll have to put it in,
21 in the configuration shown here, not the one that's, you
22 know, sort of shaped in where it is now. They have to bend
23 these houses under this to the west to conform so that they
24 do have a straight across intersection where there is a
25 median cut there.
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1 MS. CORMAN: And this aerial photograph, Snead is
2 right in the middle.
3 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
4 MS. SOUTH: -- will go right behind it.
5 MS. FIECHTL: Now what's the entrance --
6 MALE SPEAKER: That photograph isn't current. It's
7 an old photograph.
8 MS. CORMAN: They'll turn around here.
9 MS. FIECHTL: To go into the church --
10 MS. CORMAN: There's a median right there.
11 FEMALE SPEAKER: -- as you go up.
12 MS. SOUTH: That's not a street.
. 13 MS. FIECHTL: That's just a driveway.
14 MALE SPEAKER: Yeah.
15 MS. FIECHTL: Okay.
16 (Inaudible. Many voices speaking over one another. )
17 MALE SPEAKER: That's an old photograph.
18 MALE SPEAKER: That road has been reconstructed.
19 FEMALE SPEAKER: Where the water building is.
20 FEMALE SPEAKER: When was this photo taken?
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: I'm not sure. It's probably
22 several years ago.
23 MALE SPEAKER: I believe they have shortened that
24 median.
25 MR. GLOSS: If there are no more comments I'm going
78
1 to go ahead and close the public hearing. I would like to
2 thank all of you for attending. I know this has been a
3 somewhat difficult discussion at times, but I will be very
4 carefully reviewing all the development plans that have been
5 submitted, all of the public record, including the taped
6 testimony that you just provided this evening and take these
7 comments very seriously, and then rendering a decision in
8 the next 10 working days. And I probably will take most all
9 of that time because it's going to take a fair amount of
10 research to get through all these items. And after that
11 time you'll be getting a copy of that decision mailed to
12 you. And with that on top will be a cover letter that
13 explains the appeal procedure. If you don't agree with the
14 findings and the decision you may appeal my decision to the
15 City Council. There is an application fee of $100. It
16 would go to the City Clerk's office and there's some
17 specific standards and rules by which you would have to make
18 your application, specific grounds you'd have to cite for
19 making the appeal. So with that I would like to conclude
20 our hearing this evening and thank you very much for coming.
21 (Tape recorder turned off. )
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