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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 08/30/1995CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bob McCluskey, Jr. STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Administrative Aide I. MINUTES: Regular Meeting of August 30, 1995 The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairperson Henry Fry. AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the agenda as printed. ITEMS OF NOTE: Henry Fry referred to a letter received from Armon Johannsen stating he would be resigning from the Golf Board as of October. Henry expressed his congratulations on the trip that Armon has planned, but added that the Board would be losing all of Armon's experience and knowledge. CONSIDER APPROVING THE MINUTES: A. Regular Meeting of July 19, 1995 It was moved by Tom White and seconded Tom DeGrand that the minutes of the Regular Meeting of the Golf Board held on July 19, 1995, be approved as submitted. Motion was approved (9:0) B. Special Meeting of August 9, 1995 Jerry P. Brown reminded Board members of the problem that occurred with the computer and the reconstruction of the minutes from the August 9, 1995 meeting. The minutes presented are the best of our recollection of what happened during meeting. It was moved by Mike Sanders and seconded by Tom White that the minutes of the Special Meeting held on August 9, 1995, be approved as submitted. The motion passed. (9:0) CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: Citizen Richard Brose asked whether a season pass regarding a medical disability for golf car rental is renewed automatically? Jerry responded that these special discounts are not renewed automatically, and that requests should come in to Jerry for annual renewal of the golf car discounts for medical reasons. Citizen Byrd Curtis brought up his concern regarding Ladies' Day at City Park Nine. One morning each week is devoted to a group of ladies for a shotgun start 9-hole round. Mr. Curtis' concern is that this practice causes several people to go to other courses. Further, in this day of equality, the Board should reconsider devoting one full morning to one specific gender. Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 2 Citizen Jerry Eckard asked about Collindale setting aside multiple tournament times. During 1995, there was a prime time tournament set on recurrent evenings. It appears that there is a league that has reserved these times as tournament times. Jerry is aware of this group. We are experimenting this year to see how it works. This situation could be classified under special privilege and will be reviewed by the Golf Board during the winter. Basically this group learned the rules, conformed to the rules of a golf tournament, and were willing to pay the tournament fees. David Shands asked if this slot was previously occupied by the Kodak league, as he has heard some disgruntled Kodak people feel they were not offered this opportunity. Jerry Eckard then asked if one group tries this and likes it, what is to keep other groups from booking every night during the week and making weeknight play unavailable for the regular golfer? The minimum number of participants in a tournament is 20. REVIEW DISCUSSION AND RECOMMENDATION REQUESTED ON PROPOSED 1996 GOLF FEES AND CHARGES Jerry had prepared for the Golf Board a memorandum with proposed 1996 fees and charges based on comments and decisions made by the Board during the year. His memo had some background and where we stand with transfers from the General Fund. The original goal was to keep $100,000 in reserves. The staff will be cutting $60,000 out of the existing budget, mostly coming from salary savings in seasonal employees and line items, as well as using reserves. With all the changes, there should be enough to cover the shortfall this year, and secondly to not have a fee increase in 1996. The weather this year has killed play, and everyone in Northern Colorado lost the month of May for play. Jerry referred to an article passed out stating that golf play was pretty good this year except for areas with abnormal weather conditions. Jerry is now comfortable that we can return to previous levels of play. There is a feeling that people had gotten out of the habit of playing golf because of the slow start. Unless there is some real catastrophe, we should return to previously established averages. Frank Blanco asked if the raise in fees and the lack of annual pass purchasers was a factor? Jerry thinks it is possible that the fee structure had some determination in whether a person decided to purchase an annual pass. It is obvious that we have lost 60-70 pass card holders. Jerry's guesstimate of total revenue from pass purchasers was around 15%. In addition the Rockies have an impact, but not as great as it was in 1993. During the last year there has been a lot of citizen input on fees and charges. At the last meeting, the Board recommended changes in prime time. Non -prime time will be Monday through Thursday and Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 3 Friday until 12:00 noon; starting at noon on Friday through Sunday night is prime time. The Board also recommended changes in pass classifications to Restricted and Unrestricted. Jerry developed fees for the pass changes and prime time changes and inserted fee recommendations. After Jerry's presentation Henry Fry asked if Board members had questions regarding these proposals? David Shands asked why there is an expiration date on punch cards? Jerry stated that golf had been prepaid in one year at those rates. In addition it was part of a Board decision that money collected and rounds played should be in the same year. At the time this was discussed, Board members commented that some people would not use all of their punches. Frank asked if staff had considered raising green fees and what would be the difference if green fees were raised and punch cards were not? Jerry replied that there would be a significant increase in revenue, but felt that a $1.00 increase in green fees was too much, and the Board liked keeping fees in round dollars as golfers did not want to mess around with change. Frank then asked who pays full green fees local or out-of-town players? As Fort Collins currently does not keep track of whether a person is local or an out-of-town player, there is no actual count. Joe Nance added that mid day, afternoons, and weekends have a majority of green fee players. Frank then asked about passes purchased by out-of-town golfers, and Jerry responded that City Council had decided on that years ago and we discontinued selling annual passes to non- residents of Fort Collins. The one exception is the "Snowbird" program where senior citizens pay 2/3 the normal senior citizen rate. These people live in traditional student housing and they are gone by the time CSU starts back up. Richard Brose then asked if consideration had been given to offering discounts to purchasers 2-3 years in advance? Jerry said No. The floor was turned over to Citizen Louis Scharf for his presentation. He began by going through the report and making a couple of key points. Additional information being distributed was put together after reports were received from the City staff. His group will continue to argue for larger annual pass fees and smaller per play fees. Mr. Scharf congratulated the Golf Board for the great progress against prime time rates, and encourages the Board to make changes to established procedures to help regain players. Under the section on Details, Item 2, it was suggested that punch cards be changed to enable use for either a 9 or 18 hole round of golf. In the appendix Mr. Scharf had an illustration of different scenarios of the options discussed at tonight's meeting. The concern expressed is that problems stated by pass holders this past Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 4 year were not being addressed. Mr. Scharf supported Jerry Brown's Option C. The Scharf Option 2 suggested the per play fee should simply be $1.00 for each 9 holes played. Another proposal suggested charging $525 up front with no per play fees. Mr. Scharf's main objection to Brown's option's A and B is that no new revenue is being raised for the Golf Fund. Basically Brown's Option C and Scharf's Option 1 is money up front that would act as an insurance buffer if events such as weather lowered number of rounds played. Mr. Scharf then reviewed pass holders receptivity of the five different proposals. Details of the analysis on how Mr. Scharf arrived with the various rankings was reviewed. Henry Fry asked the Board if they had any questions regarding Mr. Scharf's presentation. Frank asked Mr. Scharf's opinion of punch cards? Mr. Scharf likes the idea of punch cards that can be used for both 9 and 18 holes. Henry asked how we could address the different rates for 9 and 18 holes? The response from Mr. Scharf is that punch card players pay 1/2 fee for 9 holes than they pay for 18 holes. DJ Hjelle asked who is the "we" being referred to this evening? Mr. Scharf stated the group presenting this report consisted of Dick Ward, Henry Cross, Mike Sawyer, and himself. Henry posed the thought that if pass sales are down 16%, it would indicate that 84% were not that unhappy. Mr. Scharf stated that when the per play fees were initiated, pass sales decreased. There has been a 30% decrease in total sales since these fees were started. Frank agreed with that statement, noting that since 1992, pass sales have declined every year. Henry then referred to numbers he ran this afternoon, and was astounded at how close Mr. Scharf's plan was compared to the Golf Board proposals. Mr. Scharf agreed that the numbers are very close, however, he still feels that per play fees are turning players away. Henry stated that the only thing he sees happening is that players who play a lot play for almost nothing. Discussion then centered between Louis Scharf and Henry Fry on the pros and cons, and the representative figures. Armon Johannsen asked when we need to look for closure on these issues? Jerry Brown stated he is hoping for direction from the Golf Board at tonight's meeting as City Council adoption is scheduled for October 17. Jerry then asked what other public opportunities the Board wishes to offer? Armon commented that there have already been two public input meetings, and that the Board should go forward tonight. Mindy Markley feels the Board should go back and discuss what people have said to us. She further noted that public comments are the principle of the issue, not the dollar figure. Tom White speculated that people may not be analyzing thoroughly how much a bargain they are receiving. David Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 5 Shands commented that we may not sell any more passes by this time next year, even with all the discussions held this year. David and Henry were in agreement that the major impact on annual pass sales decline has come from the punch card sales and not just that annual pass holders are all upset. Armon commented that it behooves the Board to try to get people back, and there would be no major damage done by trying a plan for one year. We establish policies for the thousands of people who play golf, and we need to let people know that if they came to Golf Board meetings that we heard them. Armon further went on record that his personal preference is $430 to purchase the annual pass and $1.00 per 9 holes per play fee. He further feels Mr. Scharf and his group have given a lot of thought to annual passes and punch cards. If we are doing our job, we are bringing people back to courses, not justifying why these people have left. David found the 9-hole punch card idea to his liking, however, Mike Sanders stated that we need to determine the basis on the 9-hole fee, not the 18-hole fee. The basic idea was OK by him in that the user would be given discounts on their golf and it was not important what was used (squares, circles, etc.) In Fort Collins the play preference is 9 holes. It was asked if these punch cards would be valid Monday through Thursday only? (Essentially a non - prime punch card.) Loveland has both prime time only and non -prime time only punch cards. The Board discussion focused on punch cards, the various pricing options, and who would be getting what discounts. Mr. Scharf's plan simply states that people can punch one half of the circle for a 9-hole round. Henry questioned why the prime and non prime time theory is valid for punch card use and not valid for passes? Comments he has heard are that the proposed punch cards remain the same and change the pass formulas to charge the fees up front fee and then charge $1.00 for 9-hole play and $2.00 for 18-hole play and not distinguish between prime and non - prime time play. After further discussion, Armon Johannsen moved that the board recommend approval for a $525 Unrestricted Annual Pass and not charge a per play fee (Scharf Option 1). The motion was seconded by David Shands. Henry commented that the people asking for this are the golfers who play a lot of rounds. The motion passed (6:3), with Board members DJ Hjelle, Tom White, and Henry Fry opposed to the motion. Jerry asked for a clarification from the Board on how the other levels would break down below the main annual pass, i.e. restricted pass, junior, etc. It was felt by the Board that the same percentage reduction previously approved by the Board (for adults and juniors) July 19 should be followed. Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 6 Armon Johannsen then moved that the Golf Board recommend adoption of "Brown Option C". Jerry asked for a clarification. Armon clarified that it would be the whole Option C package as he sees that would generate a few more dollars for the Golf Fund. The Loveland fees on pass purchases was reviewed and discussed how they relate to all the courses and if per play fees are charged. Armon restated that the Golf Board has heard the comment from Fort Collins golfers to hit them up front and not charge per play fees. Frank asked if Jerry was then eliminating the senior pass? Jerry stated the Golf Board voted that an adult pass had restricted and unrestricted classifications and there was no difference between a single adult pass and senior pass. Tom DeGrand seconded Armon Johannsen's motion to approve the total of Option C, including cutting back the per play fees to the 1994 levels. A vote was called for on the motion on the table and the motion passed (5:4). Board members opposed to the motion were Henry Fry, Tom White, DJ Hjelle, and Frank Blanco. Jerry added that the Board now needs to decide how to rank restricted and junior pass fees without the per play fee. It seems that we should stay with the same percentages as previously used; 75% restricted, 50% junior restricted, etc. It was further noted that in 1996 there will be multiple annual pass cards, and because of this we will require that annual pass cards be shown at the time golfers sign -in to play. Tom White sees this as an experiment and accurate records should be kept. It is very important that we have lots of good hard numbers. Jerry stated that we can't track how many times a pass holder plays as we have a manual tracking system. Mike Sanders speculated on whether this could be tracked at the courses? Jerry wondered if it was really critical as he perceives the decision tonight as important for the satisfaction of golfers, to see if revenue will increase, and will disenchanted golfers return. Mike Sanders likes the idea of information that Tom White suggested. It was suggested that maybe at the end of the year send out a postcard questionnaire to all pass holders to get their opinion. Mike suggested that maybe the golfers would take a minute or two to send back the surveys to aid us in our decision making process. Jerry then requested that the Board decide on the 1996 green fees and 1996 golf car fees. David Shands feels the green fees and golf car fees are in line and moved that the 1996 green fees and 1996 golf car fees remain at the same level as set for 1995. Mindy Markley seconded the motion. The motion passed (8:1) with Frank Blanco opposed to the motion. Frank's belief is that Fort Collins golfers are subsidizing out-of-town golfers. Frank would like to Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 7 see data showing the number of out-of-town golfers who use Fort Collins courses. Jerry stated the next Board recommendation needed is the 1996 Tournament Fee. Armon Johannsen moved and DJ Hjelle seconded that the 1996 tournament fee be $2.00 per 9 holes. The motion passed unanimously (9:0). Derek Cordova commented that the punch cards would really be confusing by having one card with 20 halfs. Jerry commented that punch cards are really a great deal as they can be used at all three courses except for play in tournaments. David Shands observed that it seems trivial to raise the punch card fees by $2.50. David asked why the punch cards have a December 31 expiration date as opposed to the expiration date for annual passes? Tom DeGrand asked the course pros how they feel on the punch card expiration date? Their feelings are that expiration dates are good expiration dates and should be adhered to. After this brief discussion by the Board David Shands moved to leave the punch card layout the same as 1995 with an expiration date of December 31, 1996, and to maintain the fees for 1996 punch cards at $85.00 for a 9-hole card and $135.00 for an 18-hole card. Frank Blanco seconded the motion. The motion was unanimously approved (9:0). Jerry reminded the Board of Armon's question on holding an additional public meeting before our proposal is submitted to City Council. It was added that we could buy an ad stating the proposed 1996 fees and charges. Henry commented that he feels we should not spend a dime. Jerry then suggested that we could do a press release and hope that people will pick up on the information and let us know what their interests are. Mindy commented that the Board held many meetings specifically requesting input from the golfing community and therefore does not see the need for additional special meetings. Armon added that the Board has responded to comments made by citizens during those meetings as evidenced by the decisions made this evening. It was agreed that no additional public input meetings are needed. APPOINTMENT OF BOARD MEMBERS TO RFP REVIEW COMMITTEES A. City Park Nine Golf Professional (2 members) Mike Sanders and David Shands will represent the Golf Board on the City Park Nine Golf Professional committee. Two other people who will be on this committee are Dave Sadler and Jim O'Neill, City Purchasing Agent. Two other people who were suggested as possible members of this committee are Lil Bickel or Jim Doyle. Jerry will Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 8 contact Lil Bickel first to find out if she would serve on this committee. B. Collindale Snack Bar (2 members) Volunteers for the Collindale Snack Bar Committee are Mindy Markley and Frank Blanco. C. SouthRidge Restaurant/Snack Bar (2 members) Tom White and DJ Hjelle volunteered to serve on the SouthRidge Restaurant/Snack Bar Committee. Jerry stated that each committee would have five people; two Golf Board members, one golf staff member, a Purchasing representative, and one citizen who has a specific interest in the particular course. One of roles of the Golf Board is to review the specifications. Jerry stated that according to City Code and the resolution adopted, all Board members have an opportunity to see the proposals submitted, but only the two representatives from the Board serving on the selection committee will actually vote on the proposals. Other Board members should provide their input directly to their two representatives on the appropriate committee. The policy further states that if the appointing authority selects somebody other than that selected by the committee, it has to be brought back to the Golf Board for a public discussion on the choice differences. However, staff makes the final determination. David Shands asked when the RFP's would be going out? Jerry responded that City Park Nine would be out at the end of September; Collindale should go out the end of October; and SouthRidge would be sent around the middle of November. The respective committees will interview only the top three presentations, and the top three candidates will be determined by a point scale system. Golf Board members will see all the proposals received and should relay their thoughts directly to the two Board members serving on the committee. In response to questions asked by Mike Sanders, it was stated that the same procedure is used for all three proposals. It was suggested that the amount of space be limited for answers to questions. Henry suggested the scope of the questions be limited. As an aid for people wishing to comment more, Mike suggested that a blank page could be added at the back of the packet. OTHER BUSINESS -- Jerry stated that the September meeting is scheduled for the 13th. With David Shands, Tom White and Mindy Markley out of • • Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 9 town, Jerry thought the Board could look at holding a meeting on the 27th of the month. Tom White moved and Tom DeGrand seconded that the September meeting of the Golf Board be moved to September 27. The motion carried unanimously (9:0). -- Mike Sanders asked, in light of Armon's leaving, if the board social event could be held early in September? Jerry suggested having a Sunday afternoon of golf with dinner following. This event was tentatively set for September 17, 2:00 p.m. at SouthRidge Golf Course. -- Frank Blanco asked about executive sessions and whether discussion held at that time are confidential? Jerry stated that was correct, and that is why the memo was marked confidential. Jerry has tried to correct a piece of mis- information and those discussions were only between the three concerned parties. -- Jerry referred to several pieces of mail that have been received. The first was a thank you letter from Mr. Lee Suniga regarding a tournament held at Collindale. The second piece distributed was a complaint that was received in the office today. An Email report of the complaint explaining the situation was distributed to Board members. An investigation by Jerry indicates that there is no merit to the charges made, but this person has a right to state his feelings. -- Armon commented that he is leaving with some regrets that he is unable to finish out his term. However, he feels strongly about board attendance, and with his upcoming commitments he would be unable to serve at the capacity he expects. There has always been a good give and take of ideas. The establishment of fees for upcoming years have always been a hassle, but he likes the idea that the Board is willing to try things for one year to see if it works. It was good working with this Board and expressed his wish of all the best in the future. Golf Board Meeting August 30, 1995 Page 10 ADJOURNMENT On a motion from DJ Hjelle and a second by Tom White the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:55 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I Golf Division Meeting Attendance BOARD MEMBERS STAFF GUESTS Henry Fry Frank Blanco Tom DeGrand DJ Hjelle Armon Johannsen Mindy Markley Mike Sanders David Shands Tom White Jerry P Brown Derek Cordova Jim Greer Alan Rrcmarik Joe Nance Alyce Nierman Mike Powers Dave Sadler Richard Bross Henry Cross Byrd Curtis Sean Duff Paul Haenel Gerry Mitchell Louis Scharf John Schuh Roger Vanderslice Richard Ward