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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 02/19/1997CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bob McCloskey, Jr. STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf, and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Administrative Aide BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h) MINUTES: Regular Meeting of February 19, 1997 CALL MEETING TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Vice Chairperson Mike Sanders. Chairperson Mindy Markley arrived and assumed the gavel after "Items of Note." AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda. ITEMS OF NOTE: Jerry P. Brown reported that Steven Garcia is absent tonight, and he will be resigning from the Golf Board effecting May 31, as he has accepted a position in California and will be moving. Steven has stated that he will stay on the Board through the May meeting. Dale Smigelsky was welcomed as the new golf professional at City Park Nine. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: It was moved by Henry Fry, and seconded by Byrd Curtis, that the Board approve the minutes of the Regular Golf Board Meeting of January 15, 1997, as presented. The motion passed (8:0). CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: No citizen participation. SPECIAL PRIVILEGES POLICIES REVIEW Jerry reviewed the information that had been distributed to the Board and noted a letter in tonight's packet was received after the original information was mailed. The last time this topic was dealt with as a whole by the Golf Board was in 1987. Some items had been addressed and dealt with since that time, but not as a whole package. Simply defined, this policy should address any person or group Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 2 who pays less money and/or has special usage of municipal courses and facilities. At this time we are not addressing annual passes, or tournaments and tournament reservations. At the last Board meeting it was requested that all special groups be listed for review. The first time this policy was adopted and printed was in the Golf Handbook in 1980. In 1981 and 1982, some revisions were made and then in 1987 they were again reviewed. Since our courses are municipally operated, we want to publicly discuss all special usages because it is appropriate, and also some new groups may want to receive special privileges and they will want to know what are our policies. When these policies originally were adopted, the Fort Collins population was about half of today's population and there were no other alternatives for the Poudre School District and Colorado State University to have play. These privileges were originally written and geared for City Park Nine and Collindale. When SouthRidge was constructed, prior to being run by the City Golf Division, they solicited leagues which are historically a money -making venture. When SouthRidge came into the folds of the City in 1991, the Board and staff at that time discussed and decided to leave their existing policies intact. Finally, we plan to distribute a new golf policies and guidelines handbook later this year which will address all the key issues, including special privileges. In his cover memo, Jerry identified the policies that had been adopted in the past. One example is the usage policy adopted for Colorado State University Women's and Men's golf teams. The policy has been left as it was originally adopted. Another policy to review is the one currently in force for Poudre School District. Jerry has spoken with the School District representative and they are aware the Golf Board and staff will review all policies currently in force. Times have changed since the initial adoption of the special usage policies. Issues such as Ladies Day also need to be addressed. Mindy Markley noted that she believed there are a couple of issues that are very significant. One issue is that at some point in time some members of these special privilege groups mentioned that statements were made regarding being grand fathered in. Since that time, we have created prime and non -prime times, altered and changed passes, and passes can be used at some courses and not at others, etc. Another issue to take into consideration when discussing this topic is that over the last year, the Golf Board has been communicating extensively with City Council to obtain additional funds for the Golf Division. At this time, the Golf Fund receives virtually no financial assistance from outside and City Council considers golf to be self-supporting and to pay all expenses. What is not recognized by Council is that we are not independent to the point where we can obtain a loan to pay for large capital expenses. There are some very large issues, some safety related, where we have approached Council for funds. To fund these needs, the Board could go directly to the golfers and state that we are raising fees. However, the Board has been creative lately in that we have approached other City departments and we are discussing using private groups to work towards solutions. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that golfers have to pay for these expenses and it is difficult for the Board to recommend increased fees and not be able to tell golfers why we have special usage groups. It is felt that this would be a good opportunity to find what groups are out there, give us the chance to visit with them to determine their needs and possibly come up with alternatives. It was stressed that in our review, these groups are not to blame as we originally Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 3 solicited them to play. Jerry stated that each golf course is dealing with different life cycles on capital expenses. Randy Bonneville commented that in the near future SouthRidge will have to seriously look at the irrigation system as it will soon be over 15 years old. Jerry noted that the Collindale irrigation system is also aging, and we will also need to look at golf cars, replacement of the Collindale clubhouse, underground tanks, the snack bar at City Park Nine needs improvements prior to reopening, and the parking lots need repairs and possible replacement. We have kept up with the daily operating costs and expenses, but there is a need for capital expenditures. Mindy, however, said that before we can ask golfers for new money, we need to make sure we have our house in order. Golfer loyalty is developed over the years by people who keep playing at one course, and they tend to take care of the course more than the occasional users. Mindy previously thought this would be a major challenge, but the more she has talked with groups and now seeing the information on paper, it doesn't look so bad. Previously we have stated that there will be no leagues at City Park Nine and Collindale and now, seeing how well they work at SouthRidge, it might be to our advantage to review this policy. It is difficult to determine where to start with this review and Mindy stated that she would like to get a definition from the various groups what their needs are today. Jerry noted that historically ladies days at golf courses were set up to accommodate ladies play as they were not allowed on the course when men were playing. Kathy Bohmont, who served on the Golf Board in the 80's, is present tonight. She noted that this was not the case in Fort Collins. Jerry added that in minutes from 1981 it was noted that the Saturday Collindale Men's group was set up directly in response to the Thursday Ladies Day. In discussions over the years it has been asked why the ladies at City Park Nine have on Wednesday morning shot gun starts, and a couple of statements have been made that Ladies Days are being discriminatory against male golfers. The Thursday night Men's league at City Park Nine was established as a reaction to ladies day. Kathy Bohmont introduced herself and began presenting an issue that has recently arisen which related to the special fee users group policy that the Golf Board is discussing this evening. She noted that at Collindale there is also a Ladies League team. This team consists of six women who play once per month at different courses around the state. They receive free play, but pay for carts, etc. Jerry let the Board know that this was evidently approved by a former golf pro many years ago, and Administration was never made aware that this traveling team was taking place. If the Golf Board decides to eliminate this comp play, Kathy requested the Board consider leaving things in place for 1997 to allow time for the group to decide if they want to continue or disband? David Shands asked what other courses have teams that participate in this traveling event? Kathy stated Highland Hills; Fort Morgan; Loveland (the olde course); Sunset in Longmont; and the Greeley Country Club. The only course that does not comp play is the Greeley Country Club and their team has other programs that raise money to pay for play when it is their turn to host the event. Jerry added for Board information that the team members need to belong to the Association, and representation on the team is competitive. Mindy asked for input from Kathy how the Board should deal with other groups that may want to Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 4 set up the same arrangement? Jerry commented that in essence the City would be sponsoring team play at other courses. If the Board wants, he could call the other courses involved to get their input. Jerry added that he had also been approached regarding women's play on Saturdays. Byrd Curtis asked Kathy why the group specifically wants the policy to continue through this year? Kathy stated that the group has already committed to play this year, and Collindale is a host course this year. Henry Fry commented that the Board would not be able to reach a decision on the whole special users policy until mid summer. Mindy stated that she does not feel these golfers should be punished just because the Board or Administration was not aware of this activity. She added that her personal thought is that it would be OK to leave this intact this year and have an answer for this group to plan for 1998. Tom DeGrand feels this goes well beyond the issue, and his concern is that next year maybe the Collindale Men's Association may decide they want to have the same benefit and sponsor a traveling team and offering free play when in Fort Collins. Henry asked if we are doing anything for the junior traveling team? Tim Greer and Derek Cordova both responded that they are paying the green fees. Kathy restated her request that the Board consider leaving things status quo for 1997, which would then give their group time to decide what to do for next year. Henry noted that if the Board made an exception for this group to leave things status quo for 1997, then others might also want the same relief in the future. It was moved by Byrd Curtis, and seconded by Henry Fry, that the Golf Board should keep the Special Privileges for this group status quo for 1997. Discussion followed and Tom DeGrand commented that so many organizations have different needs and structures from when this policy was first adopted, that the Board needs to get a lot more information as to the status and needs of these groups today. Mike Sanders commented that he is not in favor of trying to reinvent the definition of "grand fathered." In his opinion, two people made a wild -card decision to waive approximately $360 per year, and he does not feel comfortable continuing the precedent. Mike commented further that the City had no knowledge of this activity and that he does not view this as a hardship paying $15.00 to play golf. After Board discussion, a call was made for a vote on the motion and David Shands, Frank Blanco, and Byrd Curtis voted in favor of the motion; and Mindy Markley, Tom White, Henry Fry, Mike Sanders, and Tom DeGrand voted no. Therefore, the motion failed (3:5). It was then moved by Henry Fry that the Golf Board take to heart what was presented and, admitting to nothing and offering no future obligation to this group or any other group, accommodate by splitting the cost of the green fees for this event. This offer in no way should be considered a special users policy inclusion. David Shands seconded the motion. The motion was voted on with David Shands, Frank Blanco, Henry Fry and Mindy Markley voting in favor; and Tom White, Tom DeGrand, Mike Sanders, and Byrd Curtis voted no. The motion failed due to lack of majority (4:4). Citizen Bert Bohmont commented that he believes the Golf Board is overlooking the fact that the Collindale Ladies group is representing Fort Collins. Further, the Golf Board is overlooking the historical fact that previous pros have given their approval, this traveling play has been occurring for a number of years, that it encourages team play, and sponsors good will, etc. Jerry noted that the Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 5 City of Fort Collins government cannot sponsor any competitive teams. Jerry added that if it appears that we are sponsoring a team, it would be illegal. Mindy noted that at some point in the process somebody from another course has already said no to free play. Mindy added that the challenge now is for the local group of ladies to go back to the main group and work on coming up with a creative solution. In moving to the next part of this discussion, Jerry asked if there were any questions on the information that had been listed and presented this evening. Mindy stated that she has a lot of questions, but they are based on old facts. Before an informed decision can be made, we need to know who the current groups are, how many groups there are, what they play, when they play, etc. Mike Sanders suggested developing a form asking groups to identify themselves, and inform us how a person can participate, get involved, etc. It was then questioned how we could get a public notice out so groups not currently on the list could respond to this survey. Having what groups and policies were in force in 1980 is a good start, but this may not be where we want to be today. It was also suggested that a time frame be established for picking up the survey forms and then returning for compilation. Jerry informed the Board that the Poudre School District is starting a girls high school team and the District has stated the girls team is a high priority. This would mean that per day, three tee times would be used for varsity practice and play. It was further added that the policy with the Poudre School District and Colorado State University is very well outlined. Tom DeGrand suggested placing a time limit for when groups can respond. David asked for Mike to clarify his comment. Mike stated that we need to quantify the cost or gained revenue by allowing league play. Currently, we target the budget each year to either break even or have a little extra, and he doesn't know at this point if the Golf Fund could support special interest groups. David believes the best way to proceed is for the Board to first deal with the existing groups. Henry would like to find out what we've been doing for groups currently in the system. Once this is determined, we could come up with policy that would be equitable to existing groups. Then we could formulate a policy that would then be applicable to everybody. Discussion went back and forth on different groups that have tried to get together a regular activity such as women's leagues and groups wanting guaranteed tee times. Henry stated that the weekday Collindale Men's League has no guaranteed times; however, they do have the option to use their pass, use a punch card, or pay green fees. The league is operated by the Men's Association, but each team has to call and schedule tee times just like everyone else. Jerry stated his belief that the Board should look at official leagues as a revenue source and should not allow use of annual passes for league play. The current league policies in force at SouthRidge may be the way we should incorporate league play at the other City courses. Leagues are OK, but he believes they should pay green fees. Henry noted that the Collindale Men's Association will have four events scheduled in April and May, and a couple of events in June, July or August. They can plan later starting times, and in the past have had some shotgun starts. Usually these events average 70-80 participants and there are a couple of two-day events. Jerry stated there is a need to sit down Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 6 with these different groups and find out their expectations. Mindy asked if the Men's Association at SouthRidge have the same activities and arrangements at the course? Derek stated that they have leagues that have guaranteed tee times, and when members participate they can pay green fees or use a punch card. Mindy asked what groups would say if times could be blocked out but they would help by paying green fees? Henry reiterated that the Collindale Men's Association is using the system as it is currently set up. Jerry noted that when these policies were established there was not the number of public access courses that are available now. We have more competition today for the golfing public revenue. Henry added that the Men's Association does not pay tournament fees when they play on Saturday. Jerry clarified that the tournament fee is really a tournament reservation fee that guarantees tee times. Mindy commented that from statements tonight we can come up with win/win solutions, and at this point we will only make things worse by ignoring the situation. Jerry predicted that disseminating information, allowing time for the various groups to discuss, and getting back, that it would probably be the April meeting before the Golf Board could really discuss this issue in depth. Jerry commented that he would like to come back to the April Board meeting with information that had been requested. Mindy added that she would like to give an opportunity for groups to discuss their needs before they come to the Golf Board for a presentation or request special uses. With the goal of having something in place around September, Henry observed that this basically leaves the policy status quo for 1997. Tom White wants to keep the various groups happy, but not to the point where we are giving away revenue of time that could normally be used by green fee players. Jerry noted that, based on local golf history, if we happen to lose all of these groups, others will be there to fill the space. It was generally agreed that the basic goal is to establish a budget and raise enough revenue to reach that point. Also, in attaining that goal, we still need to be responsive and responsible to all segments of the golfing community. OTHER BUSINESS • Tom White asked for an update on the housing development by Collindale? At the last Board meeting Jerry had reported a conflict between the parties, and noted that at this time the conflict has been resolved. The developer will pay sewer easement fees of $9,000+, as well as solving the drainage problem by the nursery. There will also be a 10' easement on the #7 fairway. The City has waived this easement fee and the developer will maintain the berm, landscaping, etc. in perpetuity. The developer has started the sewer line construction, and has a deadline of April 13. Jerry added that he expects the 10' landscape easement construction to last throughout the year and the developer will work around special tournaments, etc. • Mindy reported that Jerry has begun holding regular staff meetings with the golf pros and course superintendents. It is planned to hold these meetings the same day as the Board meetings that will touch on various issues and review the Golf Board agenda. Mindy plans on attending these meetings and if Board members want to bring issues to this groups attention, Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 7 they should contact Mindy with their topics or request to attend in her place. This should also allow staff members time to research the topic and get the information needed by the Board to make good decisions. Mindy commented that one item discussed today was why the courses have varied opening times. The staffs are putting together a criteria in writing and will also establish a chain of command. • David Shands inquired as to the status of funds that are owed by Joe Nance? Jerry reported that he and Joe have met and Joe will be making regular payments over a period of time. Both parties are aware that if after a point in time if the agreement is not being met, that the City will take legal action. Henry asked where the Bill Metier Memorial comes into play? Jerry replied that staff will begin the project in mid -March. Jim Greer added that April 30 is the targeted date for completion of this project. • Byrd Curtis asked what is the status for spraying goose repellent at City Park Nine? It was stated that the temperature needs to be 40 degrees, and before it could be applied at the course, it snowed. Application of the goose repellent is still planned when the temperature is 40° or above. • Mike Sanders, on behalf of the Board, thanked Byrd Curtis and Tom White for their hard work on the City Park Nine Golf Professional Selection Committee. • Mike also stated that he recently visited with the golf pros on the "Klubs For Kids" program and we now have approximately 700 clubs that will be cut down and then distributed to junior golfers. It was added that a couple of Board members would be contacted to group the clubs into the different types and then size down. • Mike also brought before the Board a different spike for use at our courses. Today Jerry OK'd the use of this cleat at the three municipal courses and a review will be made of the results. As part of the course monitor program, they will be looking for any damage to the course from use of these spikes. Randy Bonneville commented that if we hadn't gone to spikeless play this year, our courses would probably have had more damage due to the excessive play this winter. • Jerry reported that a memo has been sent to Natural Resources Board regarding possible land acquisition adjacent to SouthRidge. The Natural Resources staff has asked Jerry to put together a plan, maps, and other information on this acquisition. • The City Manager sent a budget message out requesting comments and input from the various Boards and Commissions. Jerry expressed his preference to do the same thing as last year and not bring attention to the Golf Fund. We should leave everything low key and if during the budget discussions Council decides to pursue the money currently given to the Golf Fund, then we should mobilize. There is no way to predict what might happen as we know there will be Golf Board Minutes February 19, 1997 Page 8 three new City Council members. The Board agreed with Jerry and decided to make no statement at this time. Jerry noted that the next Golf Board meeting is scheduled for March 19 and will be held at the SouthRidge Clubhouse. Dan Bruntz is setting up a taco bar and he will begin serving to the Board at 6:00 p.m., and the regular Board meeting will start at 7:00 p.m. a I 0uDc A motion to adjourn the Golf Board meeting was made by Tom White, and seconded by David Shands. The motion was approved (8:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I Golf Division Meeting Attendance BOARD MEMBERS STAFF GUESTS Mindy Markley Jerry P. Brown Shirley Hansen Frank Blanco Randy Bonneville Bert Bohmont Byrd C. Curtis Derek Cordova Kathy Bohmont Tom DeGrand Jim Greer Dottie Bourque Henry Fry Dale Smigelsky Don Schuh Mike Sanders Alyce Nierman David Shands Kevin Wilcox Tom White