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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 06/17/1998CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD MINUTES: Regular Meeting of June 17, 1998 CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bill Bertschy STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf, and Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h) CALL MEETING TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Vice -Chairperson Mike Sanders. AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda. ITEMS OF NOTE: Jerry P. Brown reported that in a recent study by Golf Digest Magazine, Fort Collins golf courses are ranked the 9th best in the United States based on six criteria including affordability, accessibility, the number of courses per capita, etc. Duluth, Minnesota was ranked #1 in the nation and it was pointed out that most highly ranked areas had a population of 250,000 or less. The top ten golfing areas in the country were then read. Mike turned the gavel over to Chairperson Mindy Markley who arrived during this conversation. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: It was moved by Bill Rutledge, and seconded by Henry Fry, that the Board approve the minutes of the regular meeting of May 20, 1998, as presented. The motion was unanimously (9:0) approved. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation. UPDATE ON "FORT COLLINS FORE KIDS" CLINIC/PLAY DAY Mindy Markley reported that the Clinic Day of Fort Collins Fore Kids went very well. There was some shortness of help at the end of the day, but for the most part everybody was pretty well staffed. About 325 kids participated in this event, and it seemed that all three golf courses were well organized. She asked if any Board Members heard how the day went? Mike Sanders has heard lots of positive comments, and received quite a few questions on how people will be made aware of the Play Day. Henry Fry asked if tee times would be planned for the Play Day? Dale Smigelsky agrees Golf Board Minutes June 17, 1998 Page 2 we are on the right track not to publish the play date, but to contact the clinic participants personally to inform them of the schedule. The trouble with scheduled tee times is keeping everyone on track. It is planned to have the smallest kids on holes #1, #2, and 43 and the bigger kids will play on the longer holes. Mindy commented that the pros have discussed logistics and have a good feel for keeping things moving. Tuesday, June 30, is the scheduled Play Day at City Park Nine, and a total of at least 25 volunteers are needed to assist on that day. Mindy commented that it was decided to ask the golf pros to submit a list of their charges and expenses to us and we will reimburse them out of our fund. Jerry added that if the golf pros feel the charges are legitimate they will bill us. However, they should feel free to absorb any of these costs that they like. It was moved by Henry Fry, and seconded by Byrd Curtis, that the Board give their recommendation and support to this golf pro reimbursement plan. The motion was approved unanimously (9:0). Henry asked if clubs were given away this year and was informed by Mindy that no clubs were distributed as there were not enough to give clubs to everyone. When asked, we told participants that since no clubs were returned from last year, we were unable to distribute clubs this year. Bill Rutledge asked if there were enough golf balls that could be used for the Play Day? Dale Smigelsky noted that we have a lot of golf balls available. As Mindy and Mike will be unavailable to participate on the scheduled Play Day, she turned over the organization of this event to Henry Fry. Dale stated that when the golf pros get everything planned and in writing, they will get the information to Henry. Jerry suggested having Henry involved throughout the process. Henry agreed and asked to participate in a meeting prior to the Play Day. The Play Day is being held at City Park Nine, but both SouthRidge and Collindale plan to have staff available to help with the activities on June 30. David Shands observed that most kids were very polite and interested in learning about golf. Mike complimented the three golf pros for doing a wonderful job and the Board added their thanks and hearty appreciation for the collective time and efforts to make this event a success. REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON GOLF FEES POLICY ISSUES Mindy Markley stated that most of the Golf Board was either at the presentation to City Council or they watched the tape. Council members were very receptive and listened to the needs. Mindy asked if any Board member wanted to share their thoughts on the presentation. Tom White commented that things came out more positively that he originally thought they would. Byrd Curtis said he has received several comments that the Board made a very credible presentation to City Council. Mindy doesn't think the outcome was what the public really wanted, but added that the Golf Board benefited from this presentation by gaining support from Council. City Council had the opportunity to see that golf is valuable, but we also heard them say golf is not quite up on the list compared to other community needs. When the session was off the air, Mindy asked why the Golf Fund did not Golf Board Minutes June 17, 1998 Page 3 receive subsidies similar to other City Recreational programs and was told that Council is trying to get to the point where other areas will follow the pattern of golf in their revenues. Jerry noted that the subsidy to Recreation is not just for softball, but for all recreation programs including special populations, youth, seniors, etc. Mike Sanders noted that one significant benefit from our presentation to Council is that we now view them as real people, not just an inanimate group. In addition, City Council now sees the Golf Board as a group of real people. Mindy saw the Mayor after our presentation and she said our presentation was one of the most comfortable. Council members got the feel we were being supportive of their efforts and direction, and that we came to them to share information and work together. Tom White believes that due to our presentation, when we make a recommendation City Council will be more supportive as we will be seen as a credible group. Mike added that this is true as long as we recommend reasonable programs. It is felt that the $200,000 SouthRidge debt payment is safe unless there is a financial crisis with the City. As to the $48,000, Council would like to see the Golf Fund eliminate that subsidy. Jerry believes that 1999 should stay the same, and maybe in the 2000 and 2001 budget we should start cutting this amount in half. In this way we are giving the Council something. Mindy added that this Council believes that the Board is fully planning on being self sufficient by the end of the SouthRidge debt payment. Mindy noted that one Council member asked about how our fees rank against the inflation rate from 1971 to 1998? Finance Director Alan Krcmarik ran the numbers and it showed our golfers are in pretty good shape with the rates they pay for golf. Jerry stated that when we are reviewing fees and charges, whatever we do, let's not get more complicated than we are now. By trying to give more options, we ended up confusing our golfers more. Mindy added that at every staff meeting we have had questions and concerns regarding our fees and policies. The big questions at this time is where the Board wants to go from here? Tom White asked if there were any guarantees that fees would increase on green fees one year and increase on annual passes and golf cars the next? Bill Rutledge proposed that we stay with the two year rotation. Jerry responded that this is what we have had and the only change was the addition of the Surcharge as Council directed that the Golf Fund had to collect necessary funds for capital improvements. Mike Sanders noted we have a plan in place that sets the needs and then the Golf Board recommends the charges needed to meet those needs. Mike believes the issue that needs to be decided on is whether we stop at collecting $140,000 now or we decide to go ahead and collect an additional $140,000 so we can start now with funds available to put the Collindale Clubhouse on the ground. Setting a break even budget and not addressing unexpected expenses is not fiscally sound. Bill expressed his fear that City Council may see these additional revenues as subject to being hit to aid sagging revenues in other areas. Mike commented that his belief is that Council will not come to us as long as we are not asking for additional money. Bill added that we should flag the additional revenues for specific projects. Tom White agreed that even now we are a bargain and an additional increase in fees would not be out of line. Golf Board Minutes June 17, 1998 Page 4 Frank Blanco wondered if the Board has sufficiently reviewed the groups that receive special privileges? Mindy commented that the Board should look at the overall picture and then follow the established plan between now and the year 2003. Further we need to begin thinking of ourselves fully as a business and no business should be without a savings account. A fee structure needs to be established first, then we can review the special groups. Jerry noted that this boils down to green fees and annual pass fees. We do not seem to get complaints from green fee players. Things became skewed when we agreed to offer a No Per Play Fee for pass use. When looking at all the other courses in the region, we found that we are the only place that offers a No Per Play Fee option. Jerry also stated that most of the courses he checked have different rates for weekend and week day, which equates to our Prime and Non -Prime. In addition, some have an extra winter rate, but very few of them have junior and senior green fees on weekends; only on week days. Mike stated that it is obvious that Prime Times (weekends) are easy to fill. If our goals is to raise $2.4 million and if we play 140,000 rounds of golf per year, basically the rates need to be $17.00 per round. Maybe the target is to figure how to get an average. Jerry noted that this needed amount goes down due to other revenue sources such as golf cart rentals, etc. Mike noted that the green fees we collect are considerably less than other courses in the area and maybe we could raise that up a little. David Shands commented that his belief is we should go to the market rate for weekend play. Jerry noted that we should not compare Collindale Golf Course fees to the fees charged at Buffalo Run because they have a good clubhouse. It was commented by some Board Members that if we charged more, Collindale could have a good clubhouse also. Mike noted that we would also need to consider other course amenities, staff salaries, etc. As to the increased fees this season in Loveland, Jerry stated that initially there was grumbling, but the volume of play and rounds has kept the courses filled. Mike added that we also do not know if we would be facing large capital expenditures in the very near future. Bill wondered why this issue is being re -opened, as things are working well now and he does not see a need for change. Jerry likes the first recommendation to cutout the No Per Play Fee. Bill noted that we are talking about $1.00 per round and we should probably leave that alone. Henry Fry noted that there is a difference between the Surcharge and a Per Play Fee. The Surcharge should be kept, but the No Per Play Fee pass should be eliminated. Mike asked if nothing else is changed does that produce extra revenue? Henry pointed out that the message from City Council is clear and the Golf Board needs to address benefits and price cuts that are offered. We should not lower our rates, but should increase fees and collect $4.00 per play. Bill suggested when Jerry presents the budget, that recommended fees and charges to be collected should meet all projected capital needs. Jerry noted that is how he has done it for 18 years, however, he has not looked at going beyond the break even point when budgeting. Mike suggested there should be only two basic passes (prime and non -prime) and green fees. He would also like to see how low green fees could be if passes were eliminated and everyone paid green fees. How many people will we make mad? Mindy flipped that thought to consider how many people we are going to make happy! Golf Board Minutes June 17, 1998 Page 5 Henry commented that if the passes are structured right, the Per Play Fee should take care of our needs. If our fees are too low, people will be flocking to Fort Collins to play. In looking at the total budget, if we factor back in the $200,000 being spent on the SouthRidge debt, we are not in bad shape. Mindy observed that we have been somewhat mislead and put on a guilt trip from certain user groups that since we are municipal courses they should be getting breaks. However, she has altered her views slightly to still believe these are City courses, and we need to make golf affordable for everyone in the city. Tom DeGrand likes the idea that we need to come up with a plan that sets aside some additional money for capital improvements. Mike commented that an additional $1.00 Surcharge allows us to start putting money aside for future needs. Henry pointed out that we don't need a nice clubhouse at Collindale if the irrigation system goes out and the turf turns brown. We need to have numbers and programs in mind and then present a full packet to the public with an explanation of the options. Mike asked if other Board members feel we should have restricted/unrestricted passes, and not allow pass use on the weekends? Henry feels that as long as we get Per Play Fees and our costs properly set, this would be alright with him. Tom White shared his belief that we only need two kinds of passes. Tom DeGrand stated that he likes a difference between week day and weekend rates. Jerry commented that by having say $4.00 and $2.00 set as a Per Play Fee, there will be more revenue generated and that can be used as the base, then offer options from that point. Mike observed that the only way we will find out what works is to try it out. Jerry added that when the multi -layer passes were started, it was only to be a trial period and now some people feel that it is etched in stone. Jerry commented that the Golf Fund may never have a large surplus because it would be spent as it comes in on the continuous capital improvements needed at our courses. Jerry added that we have irrigation needs and projects at all three courses. Mike asked if the Golf Board could show that we are reliable, would the City front the money needed for these projects to the Golf Fund, and we will then repay these funds? Jerry said probably no, but stated that the City does have an emergency fund, in addition to the Golf Fund carrying $200,000 in retained earnings. Mindy noted that we should review the different options and as a Board come up with recommendations. In addition, we need to keep our ears open and be receptive to the innocent cry for help. We have been forced against each other too long fighting about fees and charges and it is time for our group to go forward. Jerry noted that he will come back to the Board with actual figures and recommendations next meeting. OTHER BUSINESS • Mindy Markley commented that at the Golf staff meeting today, Jerry stated that the Ditch Company is considering rerouting the ditch at City Park Nine that is parallel to fairway #9 and relocating it to cross over #7, #8, and #9 fairways making those holes more challenging. The cost for these potential changes and improvements would not come from the Golf Fund, but from Golf Board Minutes June 17, 1998 Page 6 the Ditch Company. The Ditch Company is planning the new route to not impact the adjacent private property. Jerry added that the Ditch Company will be paying for all of the expenses including new bridges. Henry Fry asked if they would make it a little more than just a ditch in some areas? Jerry noted that if we start placing requests on the design, we could end up paying. Everyone seemed excited about the proposed changes and asked that they be kept informed of the progress of this project. • David Shands stated that he played Collindale a few weeks ago with some people from out of town and they found the course in wonderful shape. The Collindale crew should be commended for their good work. However, as most of the group he was with usually played from the rough, they were continually walking into the fairway to check the distance marker plates in the ground. This caused a significant slow down in their play and from this David wondered if we should place the 18" posts along the fairways as distance markers like those used at the other two courses. This would also provide continuity at all three courses by having similar distance markers. Henry Fry noted that when decisions were being made on the style of distance markers, it was decided that in lieu of stakes at Collindale that fairway disks would be installed. Dale Smigelsky and Doug Evans both commented and agreed that adding posts takes away from the aesthetics of the course. Doug added that at Collindale there are upright Junipers on the fairway indicating 150 yards distance from the green. David commented that people who play Collindale all the time are more familiar with distances, but when people come from out of town, and are not familiar with the course, it takes a lot more time locating the disk markers in the fairway. Doug added that at a conference he attended last year, a representative from the USGA stated that golf courses are too over marked at this time. David thought that the use of markers was a way to speed up play and he does not believe this is being accomplished with the use of disks. Henry wondered if stakes would work if they were placed back off of the fairways a bit? Doug commented that when golfing, he likes the adventure and getting away from signage. Mike Sanders noted that there are some golfers who like to have the knowledge of where they are from the green. • Bill Rutledge asked Board members who would be playing at Fox Acres on June 28? He needs to get feed back so tee times can be set. If there is a need to check back with him, please call him this week. Tee times would be around mid -day (12:00 noon). Board members planning on playing were reminded that shorts have to be at least 19" long and shirts should have collars. POTENTIAL EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS LAND ACQUISITION MATTERS Tom DeGrand moved that up to $500.00 be expended from the Golf Fund budget to get a preliminary environmental appraisal of the study costs that could be charged for a full environmental appraisal of the land being considered for purchase in connection with the expansion and realignment of SouthRidge Golf Course. The motion was seconded by Tom White and was unanimously passed (9:0). No executive session was needed. 0 • Golf Board Minutes June 17, 1998 Page 7 FAREWELL TO DAVID SHANDS David Shands had no parting words of wisdom other than to say he enjoyed serving on the Golf Board. On behalf of the Board, Mindy Markly presented a parting gift to David and thanked him for his commitment and time spent serving on the Golf Board. His contribution was very much valued. ADJOURNMENT: A motion to adjourn the Golf Board meeting was made by David Shands and seconded by Tom White. The motion was approved (9:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m. MEETING ATTENDANCE Board Members Mindy Markley Frank Blanco Byrd Curtis Tom DeGrand Henry Fry Bill Rutledge Mike Sanders David Shands Tom White Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I Staff Jerry P. Brown Doug Evans Dale Smigelsky Alyce D. Nierman