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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 07/15/1998CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD MINUTES: Regular Meeting of July 15, 1998 CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bill Bertschy STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf, and Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h) CALL MEETING TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairperson Mindy Markley. AGENDA REVIEW: An item was added to the agenda regarding the City Park Nine Ditch Relocation. ITEMS OF NOTE Jerry P. Brown reported that City Council has not made the appointments for the new term Golf Board members. These appointments are scheduled to be made on Tuesday, July 21, so the Board will be operating tonight with eight members. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: It was moved by Henry Fry, and seconded by Tom Degrand, that the Board approve the minutes of the Regular Meeting of June 17, 1998, as presented. The motion was unanimously (8:0) approved. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation. REVIEW OF 1998 "FORT COLLINS FORE KIDS" EVENTS During the Play Day portion of Fort Collins Fore Kids, approximately 80 young people participated in this event and pizza was ordered for the second group. A suggestion received for next year was to make an effort to get the word out that this is for the beginner golfer, as it appeared that a lot of participants this year were more than just beginner golfers. Henry Fry said the event was well organized. He was a little surprised and a little disappointed in the lack of participants. He expected twice as many players due to the number of kids who attended the earlier Clinics. Collindale Golf Professional Jim Greer noted that he had 90 pre -registrations at Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 2 Collindale and only half showed up. Henry added that a lot of people did not realize or connect the Golf Clinic and the Play Day as combined events. One suggestion made at the staff meeting today was to advertise more for next year's event and place more emphasis on the beginner golfer. In addition, it was suggested a minimal charge be collected ($2.00 or so) for the Play Day that will encourage people to show up. A further suggestion was made to have the events scheduled closer together, possibly during the same week with a Tuesday/Thursday combination or a Thursday/Monday combination where the sequence is closer together. Mike Sanders speculated on the possibility of sponsoring just the Clinic as there seems to be more participants. However, Mindy Markley noted that the Play Day really draws the kids who are more interested in continuing the game of golf. Henry noted that Play Day participation is around 30% of the Clinic participants. If kids who were accomplished golfers were eliminated from the Play Day, the numbers would be around half. Henry speculated on splitting the clinic to have more advanced players at one course and the other two courses could work with the beginners. City Park Nine Golf Professional Dale Smigelsky commented that the emphasis has been on the beginner golfer, introductory level. Mindy added that it would be difficult to quantify or determine who is "more into the game" and placed in a different bracket. The goal of this combined event is to introduce golf to kids who don't normally have that opportunity. If we begin tiering activities into different levels, we begin being in competition with the golf pros. Tom White added that tiering the event will dilute our efforts and we should concentrate on the "never/evers". Mindy noted that there is time to think about this before we start discussions on scheduling activities and time for "Fort Collins Fore Kids" in 1999. Mike thanked the golfing staff and everyone who worked on this program for all their efforts and time given. PRELIMINARY RECOMMENDATION ON 1999 GOLF FEES AND CHARGES Mindy Markley noted that this is not a new topic for Golf Board discussion and additional information had been mailed previously to the Golf Board for their review. Jerry P. Brown commented that the additional letter distributed to the Golf Board this evening was from citizen Al Pettine, stating that he represents the opinion of many golfers. Copies of the letter were sent to City Council members, the Golf Board and Jerry. Mr. Pettine's letter covers views and proposals on Non -Resident fees, the elimination of Prime and Non -Prime Times, and provides for Senior and Junior rates. This letter needs to be part of the Board's input process. A memo from the Budget Office dated July 13 was then referred to by Jerry. This memo informed us that revenue projections need to be submitted by August 3 and any budget exceptions must be submitted by August 10 for any changes to previously budgeted 1999 amounts." Jerry plans to submit the revenue/fee recommendations made this evening, and we can always submit exceptions later. It was noted that City Council has two budget Study Sessions scheduled, September 22 and October 13, when most of the exceptions will be presented. The first reading of the proposed budget Ordinance is scheduled for November 3, and the final reading to adopt the budget for 1999 is November 17. Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 3 Mindy commented that before we dive into discussion of this topic, she wanted to recap the events. This issue has been discussed for last couple of years, and recently the Golf Board had a Study Session with City Council and made our presentations. It came out rather clear that Council is very supportive of golf in Fort Collins, but they are really banking on us to be on our own by 2003. From comments made it is believed that the funds from the Sales and Use Tax Fund for the SouthRidge debt will probably stay, but we are not sure if the $48,000+ is guaranteed. However, the Golf Division still has to deal with needed capital improvements. We should raise approximately $280,000 each year to address these needs. Based on what was requested, Jerry put this information on paper and brought it back to the Board for review. Mindy began Board discussion by asking members' views of the recommendations made, starting with the section on Green Fees. Frank Blanco asked if we changed our plans on raising Green Fees one year and Annual Pass Fees the next? Jerry noted that both Green Fees and Annual Pass Fees are going up to meet the needs recommended by the Board. The plan is to get the revenues up to $280,000 and then returning back to alternating years of fee increases. Byrd Curtis asked about the percentage of increase in the fees? He further noted that in the year 2003 the Golf Fund picks up the additional money not spent on the SouthRidge debt and wondered why we are pushing the envelope at this point? Jerry referred to the document presented at the last Board meeting that indicated Fort Collins is well under in 9-hole and 18-hole Green Fee inflation rates since 1971. The Golf Fund has been able to keep up with our needs, but we are now facing major new needs such as irrigation replacement. Also when replacing the irrigation system, parts of the course are being torn up and there is a drop in revenue during the construction phase. Byrd feels that we need to be fair to the public and let them know why these increases are happening through the newspaper and posting at the clubhouses. He further believes that Jerry, as Manager of the Golf Division, should be putting this information out to the golfing community. Tom White believes that it is premature to post this information before a final decision is made. Byrd feels the information needs to get to the public where it ought to be. Jerry added that in the summer of 1997 all of this information was mailed to the Annual Pass cardholders. Frank doesn't think we can change anything, and Byrd agreed that with the current make up of the Golf Board it is a foregone conclusion. Frank added that the Board needs to look at tying up loose ends such as tournament fees, and not just look at raising Green Fees and Annual Pass costs. In review of the comments made Mindy noted that one of Byrd's concerns was that the public be notified, and our plan is to notify the public as soon as the Board makes a recommendation. In regard to the second concern of special group rates and uses, the Board can at any time vote to review the special usage plan that was recommended previously by the Golf Board and is now in effect. At this point, Mike Sanders stated that due to Council directive the Golf Fund is expected to be fully self supporting by the year 2003. Further, assuming nothing else changes, the Golf Fund can only count on the funds currently allotted for the SouthRidge debt payment, and possibly the money received for the Community Value of Golf. Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 4 At the June Golf Board meeting, a couple of items were identified that needed funding, and since there were no funds set aside in the bank for these expenses, the Board asked Jerry to develop a plan to raise the needed $280,000. This recommendation places most of the burden on Green Fees, but it was also recognized that Annual Pass costs need to be increased. Jerry restated that the figures used for the passes are based on averages. Last month the Board decided to establish a plan to use for one year and then examine how it worked. The formula being proposed is only a suggestion. Byrd stated that he does not see any crisis facing us and improvements don't have to come out of the budget the next year or the next two years. Jerry stated that the five year plan he presented did have some dates associated with the items listed as there are life expectancies set for equipment, etc. It is possible that some pieces could last longer, but some last for less time than estimated. The Golf Fund buys equipment every year. The purchased equipment may not be exactly as stated on the list, but it is needed equipment. Referring to the irrigation system at Collindale, Jerry said that the system is breaking down as we speak and we are replacing pieces of the system every year. The total cost for replacement of this system is $600,000 to $750,000 and this needs to be replaced before the year 2003. The Collindale irrigation system and equipment is on the scheduled replacement list. Tom White observed that without irrigation, there is no Collindale Golf Course. Jerry added that SouthRidge is also facing up to $150,000 in expenses for irrigation control system improvements by 1999. Mike noted that by placing this plan into effect we will be starting to set up a sinking fund to pay for needed projects and repairs when they come up. It is hoped that by raising some fraction for the average round of golf we will catch up for the past 20 years, and the Golf Fund will be in total charge of our needs as Council directed. Bill Rutledge made a motion that the Golf Board recommend approval of the memo dated July 8, from Jerry P. Brown to the Golf Board, to be approved as presented. Tom White seconded the motion. The floor was opened for discussion of the motion. Mindy commented that we receive a lot of comments on what the Board is not doing right, and she would like to hear a better plan on what we can do to insure our courses remain operational. This is not a matter of waiting until something breaks, and we need funds immediately. We need to do what is right to keep our courses in good repair. Mike pointed out that golfers today have benefited on what people put in place 20 years ago, and that we have probably waited too long to not set money aside to pay for our future needs. Mike commented that even if the Board closed all apparent loop holes, we would probably not be able to solve all the problems. Frank questioned the average figures that were included in the report? In response, Jerry stated that we have figured this out many different ways. The average pass holder comes from a combination of juniors, seniors, etc., and the average adult player is paying closer to what Frank computed. Discussion among the Board focused on different advantages and the decision each person has to make on whether to pay Green Fees and pay as you go, or purchase an Annual Pass. Mindy focused on the fact that the Board is trying to make fees acceptable and fair for all golfers by keeping the costs in range. It all comes down to a personal decision on whether to purchase the Annual Pass or decide on alternatives. Jerry added that all golfers combined are paying higher fees to fund the necessary expenses of the courses. Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 5 Citizen Lisa Browne shared her thought that it seems apparent it is time to invoke a Non - Resident rate for our municipal courses. People are coming from elsewhere and paying less to Fort Collins, and when Fort Collins golfers go elsewhere to play they are charged a higher rate. Tee times would still be available, and for Fort Collins golfers this appears to be a painless way to raise revenues. Mindy noted that we review our fees every year, and will continue to periodically review various possibilities. Citizen Claire Nelms asked if in the past there has been a Non -Resident fee in Fort Collins? Jerry said yes, in the late 70's and early 80's, and one problem was trying to get a handle on how to determine who would be classified as a non- resident. Would it be defined by city limits, mailing address, driver's license; and how would you treat people from nearby towns like LaPorte, Timnath, and Wellington? Bill Rutledge noted that when he signs in to play in Denver he is asked if he is a resident. In addition, this same question is asked when a person calls for rates. Claire Nelms commented that sometimes they ask for your driver's license. Mindy noted that one of the issues to consider when looking at this policy is that we are not as large as Denver and we have a lot of golfers that come from the small areas around here such as LaPorte and Wellington. Henry Fry wondered about re-establishing a Non -Resident Rate. Maybe we could look at a Non- Residentl0-play punch card available in addition to Non -Resident Green Fees. Henry is not opposed to a review of fees for non-residents. Jerry noted that more courses with Non -Resident Rates are located in the Denver metro area. Mike commented that if we raised Non -Resident Fees by $5.00 over the resident Green Fees, we would need 1,000 rounds played to raise revenues by only $5,000. Mindy speculated that a committee could be formed and after study and review they would make a recommendation to the Board. Tom White asked how much bad public relations will be created if we initiate a Non -Resident Fee? Just because it works in Denver does not mean it would work in Fort Collins. Henry suggested this could be implemented for one year, track the revenue, and compare how the hassle to collect and the golfer feelings weigh against the revenue generated. Lisa Browne added that golfers come from other areas for many reasons; the courses are accessible, affordable, in great shape, and it is easy to make a tee time. Being charged a few dollars more to play will not dissuade them. Mike added that people who come from other areas many times spend additional money in Fort Collins which adds to the economic base of the community. Jerry noted that when this policy was in place before, people came in with all types of documents to try and prove Fort Collins residency. Henry commented that checking everyone's ID and verifying residency appears to be more hassle than the amount of money that could be generated. Mindy commented that this issue should not be brushed aside and it may be time to revisit this issue. Claire Nelms commented that Fox Hollow Golf Course checks to be sure the person is a county resident. Bill Rutledge was not very fond of this idea as the County is not financing the City courses. Citizen Gordon Gartner commented that each time he hears about the budget, he also hears that the Golf Fund is on its own, and the fact that "they" have said it. His hope is that we don't believe God has said it, and would like to request that the Golf Board please be kind enough to insure that Council hears all the comments made by citizen golfers. He vehemently feels City Council should support golf in this community. Also Mr. Gartner commented that he Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 6 was not aware of the senior discount and asked for a clarification of this from Jerry. Jerry noted that there is no direct senior discount, but through Annual Pass use there is a discount for weekday use. Henry agrees that City Council needs to know citizen feelings. Mr. Gartner added that he pays taxes, is not an anti -tax person, but as a senior he sees very little return when talking about benefits that a large percentage of communities allow for seniors. Mindy asked if Mr. Gartner had an opportunity to see the video, and it was added that a tape of the Golf Board presentation to City Council is available at the three golf courses clubhouses for viewing by interested parties. Restating, the original motion was to have the Board recommend approval of the memo from Jerry P. Brown dated July 8, 1998, regarding proposed Golf Fees and Charges for the year 1999. The motion was approved by a vote of 6 in favor of the motion and 2 in opposition. The members opposed to the motion were Frank Blanco and Byrd Curtis. Jerry then asked if the Board had any request on the communication methods for announcing the proposed fees. It was agreed that posting at the clubhouses and news releases would accomplish what is needed. It was also concurred that collecting $1.00 for 9-holes and $2.00 for 18-holes is a good idea and is equitable. In addition, we will study the possibility of adding a Non -Resident Fee beginning in the Year 2000. CITY PARK NINE DITCH RELOCATION Tom White asked if the ditch that runs through City Park Nine becomes abandoned, would it be filled in? Bill Rutledge asked why realignment of the ditch is being considered? Jerry P. Brown said that the abandoned portion of the ditch on the golf course would be filled in and noted that during the 1997 flood the ditch overflowed. An analysis was done by the ditch company and this was a major problem area as the trees in the area helped clog the ditch with debris. One option would be to remove the 18 trees, or the second option would be to realign the ditch. Henry Fry questioned who would pay for the additional bridges if the ditch was realigned? Jerry reported that expenses for bridges, realignment, irrigation line replacement, sodding, seeding, etc. would be paid by the ditch company. Further this work should be done in November/December so there should be minimal affect on the rounds played. Jerry stated that this realignment creates new challenges for the golf course. The drawing shown to the Board this evening is pretty general, not exact in measurements. Jerry plans on placing a better schematic drawing at the City Park Nine Clubhouse, and requesting that golfers who have concerns bring them to the Golf Board meeting on August 19. Henry suggested that we proceed with putting the City Park Nine ditch realignment into place and that a final vote be taken by the Golf Board in August after golfers have had an opportunity to address any concerns. There were no Board objections to the proposal and it was recommended that staff proceed to the next step in the process. • Frank Blanco asked if there would be any more discussion on fees this evening? The general consensus of the Board is to continue this discussion at a future meeting. Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 7 • Jerry reported that the revenue at the courses is ahead of projections and expenses to date are well in line with the budget. POTENTIAL EXECUTIVE SESSION TO DISCUSS LAND ACQUISITION MATTERS At this point Jerry stated that the Golf Board needs to discuss possible land acquisition and noted that the Board could adjourn to executive session if necessary. The citizens present left at this time and the Board did not have a need to adjourn for this discussion. Jerry referenced a letter from Grant E. Gurned, a Professional Wetland Scientist, telling us our project is feasible. SouthRidge Superintendent Randy Bonneville reported that he prepared various drawings and versions of the land being considered and how it might best be laid out. We could basically use the whole parcel to develop if needed, even the wetland areas. The property in question was outlined on a map. We are only looking at acquiring up to 40 acres for our purposes, and the property being considered generally lays out to have one hole going out, one hole coming back, and a cart path back to the underpass. We have been told by the railroad that crossing over their tracks is not acceptable so we have to construct a tunnel. Randy noted that the City recently built a tunnel and we will probably model ours after that one at Vermont Street. The first layout idea presented by Randy had the second hole coming west and the green would be placed on the island in the middle of the lake on the property. The lake on the property has water in it the full year. Randy added that we are trying to obtain some funds from Natural Resources to help with the tunnel costs and room between the lake and RR right of way for our cart path. Randy identified an area by the #7 green that currently is used for nothing. If we use that area to be developed into a parking area with bike trail access, a permanent restroom facility could be included. Restroom facilities are much needed on that side of the course. The second idea included a par 5 hole, basically laid out the same but the fairway skirts the wetlands and does not use the island in the lake for the green. The current hole #11 is now a par 5 and it will probably have new tees set to make it a par 4 hole. Randy reviewed some possible scenarios and renumbering of holes, and shared information that the Natural Resources plan calls for a 100' buffer between wetland areas and the course. Mike Sanders noted that the second plan will play faster than having a green on the island. Frank Blanco asked about the difference in costs for development of the two different plans? Randy noted that if the plan with the island is chosen it will cost at least $40,000 or more above the cost of the plan with no island use. Questions were asked if either of these plans affect the water flow and is there sufficient water for irrigation? Randy replied that we own water rights on that ditch. Randy also informed the Board that installing sod would run about $41,000 and seeding that same area would cost around $10,000. It was added that if this land acquisition is approved, we probably will take down the net on the 18th hole and the 17th green could be used for private lessons with the 18th green used for a practice area on chipping, and the IOth tee box moved south. The full project can be done in house. Different changes and possible layouts of the course at SouthRidge were discussed by the Board. Tom White commented that the overall picture improves the course and takes care of Golf Board Minutes July 15, 1998 Page 8 the 17th and 18th hole problems that we have discussed previously. Randy commented that SouthRidge was originally designed to accommodate 35,000 rounds per year and we are now doing 50,000+ rounds per year. Randy made a final comment that this is the only land left around SouthRidge Golf Course that can be acquired. The ideas presented were great and Mike Sanders thanked Randy for his presentation. Jerry then asked for a recommendation from the Golf Board, that since they have found it feasible, to give him the go ahead to first get an option on purchase of the land. Land acquisitions can only be done by City Council, but Jerry needs a recommendation from the Board to move ahead. The question was raised on whether we could lease the land. Jerry was unsure if the land could be leased and then have improvements made on the land. In addition, it was noted that improvements could run from $500,000 to $550,000. It was moved by Bill Rutledge and seconded by Tom White that the Golf Board recommend staff proceed with the necessary steps for this land acquisition. The motion was approved (8:0). ADJOURNMENT A motion to adjourn the meeting was made by Mike Sanders and seconded by Henry Fry. The motion was approved (8:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:50 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide MEETING ATTENDANCE Board Members Staff Citizens Mindy Markley Jerry P. Brown Frank Blanco Randy Bonneville Byrd Curtis Derek Cordova Tom DeGrand Jim Greer Henry Fry Dale Smigelsky Bill Rutledge Alyce Nierman Mike Sanders Tom White Lisa Browne Sean Duff Gordon G. Gartner Claire Nelms John Schuh