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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 03/16/2005MINUTES CITY OF FORT COLLINS NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD Special Meeting 281 N. COLLEGE March 16, 2005 For Reference: Nate Donovan, NRAB Chair - 472-1599 Eric Hamrick, Council Liaison - 225-2343 John Stokes, Staff Liaison - 221-6263 Board Members Present Joann Thomas, Clint Skutchan, Linda Knowlton, Gerry Hart, Nate Donovan, Randy Fischer, Ryan Staychock, Rob Petterson Board Members Absent Glen Colton Staff Present Natural Resources Dent: Mark Sears, Terry Klahn, John Stokes, Rick Bachand, Matt Parker, Rachel Steeves Real Estate: Kathy Valdez Transportation Planning: Mark Jackson Guests Renee Galeano-Popp, CDOT Doug Pearson, CDOT Glen Frieler, CDOT Alan Brown, PBS&J Anne Hutchinson, Chamber of Commerce Public Comments None Carpenter Road Update, Mark Jackson Jackson provided background information about the project, and said that CDOT was already doing an environmental study east of Windsor and found the additional funds to do an analysis to Highway 287. The jurisdictional swap is at a standstill. There is a stumbling block with folks in Estes Park regarding Highway 66. • Donovan: If CDOT were to construct improvements, such as a widening, would that almost certainly involve federal funds? • Brown: I can't imagine not having federal funds. A developer may opt to participate financially, but likely federal dollars would be involved. • Donovan: Is there a percentage that would trigger NEPA? • Brown: Any federal money would trigger it. Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 2 of 11 • Frieler: Private developers might do some improvements themselves. This document can provide a vision of an ultimate solution. As development occurs they can make those improvements. • Knowlton: How can CDOT not have money for Highway 392, but can do an environmental assessment? • Galeano-Popp: These aren't construction dollars. • Knowlton: Who is paying for the study? • Frieler: This is a planning study paid for with federal funds. • Jackson: CDOT is looking to take a lot of direction in terms of the results of the I-25 EIS. They're looking at both north/south and east/west connections, particularly the interchanges. • Hart: Are you going to use the I-25 study as a resource document? • Brown: I-25 will focus on the interchange. We will look at Hwy 392 as it goes through the interchange. • Donovan: I'm concerned about the resource that is Duck Lake. I'm concerned that an alternative that might be looked at would be to straight line the corridor across Duck Lake. It would cost a lot of money, and the wildlife values of Duck Lake would be obliterated. • Brown: Duck Lake will be the primary challenge. I'm not sure how many lanes will need to be out there to meet the transportation needs. One of the reasons we've identified a wider study area is to consider all possibilities of alignments. Yes, we'll look at going over the lake. If it doesn't make sense we'll chuck it. We will look at all alternatives. We know there are constraints we'll have to work through. • Donovan: It would make sense to analyze to what extent CDOT would have the ability to condemn land in a special district if the alignment were to stay the same and right-of-way extended. • Brown: Our first goal would not be imminent domain. We would try to purchase the land we need. • Jackson: hnminent domain will have to be a consideration. • Galeano-Popp: I'm fairly new to CDOT. Natural Resources are my field of expertise. This is one of my big projects. What I want to know regarding the current road in there is how compatible, consistent, or conducive are the current conditions to what you're trying to achieve. I'd like to get a feel for that. On one end of the program, if you're trying to manage for wilderness, you'd want to take the road out. On the spectrum, where are we today with the vision of the area? You have a big chunk of conglomerated open space. CDOT wants to support the land use you've determined down there. • Knowlton: I would say there's already too much traffic on the road. • Galeano-Popp: And that does what to "the vision"? • Knowlton: A high level of traffic is incompatible for this stretch going through our natural areas. The impetus for development of the road is to cant' even more traffic. • Knowlton: I don't see any other alternative coming out of this. You want to take traffic off Harmony and move it here. • Galeano-Popp: Is your vision the road as it is now without further development? Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 3 of 11 • Knowlton: I'd hope that's an alternative you'd look at. • Galeano-Popp: So your vision for the Carpenter Road stretch would be no action? What's not working now? • Skutchan: I drive it every day because I work in Greeley. It's definitely being used more and more. I used to drive Harmony, but I don't any longer. The traffic flow is good, but it's starting to get to the point where the stop signs are not functional. As far as the impact on the open space currently, I don't know. I'm trying to think back even three or four years. I don't notice a marked difference in the types and numbers of animals I see around there. It is becoming a more heavily traveled road. • Galeano-Popp: So the vision is not for it to be pristine, but not a superhighway either? • Brown: To enjoy the area, you have to have access. • Galeano-Popp: Do you have sufficient access right now? Is there no desire to increase access for users of the open space? • Knowlton: The road is adequate for access to the open space. It's being used as a travel corridor. Ninety-nine percent of the people using the road are not going to the open spaces. • Galeano-Popp: So, one scenario would be the road stays as it is? The ideal would be to move traffic off, or not invite or encourage increased volume. And if there are widenings? • Skutchan: It's Harmony that has pushed me to use it more than I did. You don't need to be encouraged. • Hart: The no action alternative would be this road traffic increasing until people seek an easier movement. I'd like to see an alternative that looks at how you accommodate the expected traffic in a manner that has the minimum effect. • Hart: Duck Lake doesn't seem to be an area that we're encouraging people to use. It's primarily for the benefit of the wildlife. There needs to be a potential alignment of the road that would minimize the effect on Duck Lake, and maybe connect the area up with the Fossil Creek Open Space. • Staychock: Fossil Creek is newly opened up. I'm wondering what the demand will be in the future with people outside of the City of Fort Collins. People may want to come up and visit Fossil Creek. I think we'll see a big increase, we don't want it to be unsafe. • Galeano-Popp: But, we don't want it to be a superhighway either. • Hart: I don't notice that Duck Lake affects the speed. The speed limit 45 mph, and most people are able to continue their 50 to 55 mph speeds. • Donovan: An issue is if it will be four lanes. There were conflicting views on that when the swap was being considered. • Skutchan: I don't know the effects of moving traffic more quickly. If it's not moving and flowing it could be as much of a detriment to the wildlife as a higher traffic volume. I don't know, I'm no expert on that. • Brown: One consideration is air quality when it comes to congestion. As cars slow down and stop they are less efficient, and they create more pollution. The more you can do to get traffic moving the better the air quality. Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 4 of 11 • Staychock: How many stop signs are there? Have you thought about roundabouts? They use them in the east. • Jackson: A lot of design elements are on the table for this. • Galeano-Popp: Is the open space resource still growing, or have they stopped growing? • Sears: I'd say we've purchased everything we intend to acquire except for a little piece of land, and a conservation easement. • Brown: Is there a management plan for conservation easements we could get? • Sears: Those would be recorded at the courthouse. Larimer County holds the easement. • Fischer: The South Fort Collins Sanitation district owns land they use for sludge and bio-solid disposal. That's another piece that's potentially available for protection. South Fort Collins could own it in perpetuity. • Fischer: Here's my opinion on the entire project. I'm vehemently opposed to the transfer, and spoke about it at City Council. The transfer was a failure of government by City Council. It was a betrayal of millions of dollars invested in open space. The trip generation on the road will be non-existent because of the open space. The land conservation will ensure that Fort Collins will never be a trip generator. The participating entities are outside the City of Fort Collins. The people in Severance, Eaton, Greeley and Windsor will tell us how they want the road to be built. This is a regional decision making process. You've taken the decision out of the citizens of Fort Collins' hands. The City of Fort Collins can't be accountable. This is one of the biggest mistakes ever made by this City government. I've heard outlandish statements by our city staff that if Co Rd 32 goes away, we'll have gridlock on Harmony Road. In my opinion there is nothing that will mitigate the impact of this project other than rerouting this highway to some other location. • Galeano-Popp: You don't mean ripping it out of the ground? • Fischer: If you're going to build this highway you need to be thinking abut a different, alternate alignment. We didn't invest money to make it easier for people who live in Severance and commute to Fort Collins, or even Windsor for that matter. It's an abomination in my book. • Donovan: When you say trip generation will be non-existent, do you mean the citizens of Fort Collins traveling the road? • Fischer: This corridor is virtually all developed. No additional traffic will be generated by the property. Look at this map and tell me where development could occur. • Brown: Traffic volumes are generated from sources outside the corridor. People re- distribute their trips based on the roadway network and congestion on other roads. The one thing the regional travel demand model will look at. • Fischer: That's my point. The City of Fort Collins invested money in there so there wouldn't be vmt generated. Maybe one of the solutions is to make traffic slower, make it less attractive as a way of getting back and forth. The business community made a huge mistake in doing this. Six lanes is on the books, but where is the business community going to locate any highway business? Nowhere. And they'll Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 5of11 deflect traffic from Harmony Road to a road where there's no business activity. You would think they would want traffic to flow where there are businesses. I frankly don't understand it. How does this benefit anyone in Fort Collins? • Galeano-Popp: We sort of, loosely, think of the corridor in three segments. There's Carpenter Road, and two segments on the east; downtown Windsor and the part from I-25 to Windsor. Even though this is not a NEPA study we will look at the no action alternative. In the conventional sense that would mean no action on the entire corridor. In addition to that, there will be other alternatives that will have the no action alternative on the Carpenter Road segment. We have the opportunity, and good reason, to segment this. It doesn't have to end up as a through corridor. I'm assuming there are other solutions possible in the regional picture. If the current speed limit is inviting too much traffic we can look at alternatives for the Carpenter Road section. We can make superhighways on the east side. • Knowlton: As Clint pointed out, people will travel on the road where they can make the best time; so lets not make this section that road. • Galeano-Popp: That's what we're trying to solicit. Should we keep the speed limit the same, or change the speed limit? We'll be working on this for a while. Tonight is not your only opportunity. • Staychock: Is it a possibility that 392 can come from the east and hit I-25 and redirect south, then 392 could head west again? • Galeano-Popp: They wouldn't rename it, but yes, that's how they would funnel the traffic. That's exactly the type of solution I'm trying to paint. • Brown: We do need to look at this as a regional study and look at regional transportation needs. • Petterson: Purely from a transportation perspective, it's my experience on Hwy 392 that the bridge is the blocker. A lot of traffic gets backed up waiting. Maybe that's good for discouraging more use. But, backed up traffic has the negative effects also. That should be considered in the context of this work. • Pearson: The interchange will be considered in the I-25 EIS. • Petterson: To the extent this is the consideration you can do what you want on either side, and not change anything. • Galeano-Popp: I-25, nor us are in a vacuum. We're doing coordination for the purpose of making sure the pieces fit together and we solve the congestion. • Hart: If it's the intention we don't want to improve the traffic flow in the Carpenter Road segment, we'll have to look at the other entrances to Fort Collins, and see how we make those a less unpleasant experience getting into town. • Petterson: If the problem is Harmony Road, is it the getting on and off I-25, or is it the traffic lights? Jackson: The problem is the links at peak hours, it gets really congested. It's a new interchange and it functions well. • Knowlton: Harmony is really not that bad, it's just not a bad road. • Petterson: I would echo that. • Hart: When you come from Glenwood Springs it's a terrible road. Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 6 of 11 • Petterson: To the extent that Harmony is considered an alternative, we need to look at the real concerns about Harmony, perhaps traffic lights. • Knowlton: Someone mentioned traffic circles. I like that idea for traffic calming and to keep it moving, which would make the air quality better. I would hope you look at traffic circles for the intersections along the Carpenter Road stretch too. • Donovan: If Harmony is the alternative to the north, is there a realistic alternative to the south? • Galeano-Popp: Highway 34. • Hart: Then, no. • Jackson: Crossroads is the next interchange to the south of Carpenter. A stumbling block is the airport. • Brown: An alternate of possibly going south of Duck Lake was suggested. Maybe going through the conservation easements and connecting Duck Lake and Fossil Creek? • Galeano-Popp: How does that sit with you? Would it still have the same concerns? • Brown: If the goal is to minimize traffic on Hwy 392, and not encourage more traffic, what is the underlying concern? Is it that the road will get wider, more traffic degrades the experience, or detracts from the wildlife wanting to use it? • Fischer: All of the above. The Audubon Society has done surveys. For bird information its an excellent resource. The vision for Duck Lake was to have a blind that was accessible from Co. Rd. 32 so you could look over the lake. Sitting in a blind with the traffic noise of a six -lane highway is not that desirable. • Brown: There can be mitigation. • Hart: Can you mitigate the effects of a six -lane highway? I don't think so. If the goal of the board is to not encourage traffic; we want to encourage the use of other roads. • Galeano-Popp: This other scenario might be the next best. • Brown: We're just throwing out ideas. • Knowlton: Noise barriers would be awful. A way to mitigate noise should not be to put up concrete barriers. • Brown: There are different types of barriers. • Fischer: The other thing about taking the highway south is it would go through a huge wetland. • Galeano-Popp: It would have to be a broad sweep, we'd have to do something big. • Fischer: I was wondering about the cost estimate. The last parcel we bought in the Fossil Creek we paid $50,000 per acre for. Those are the values we're talking about. • Galeano-Popp: Hwy 34 came up a little while ago. CDOT is in a NEPA analysis right now from 287 to Larimer County Road 3. It probably will call for widening on that. For me, Hwy 34 looks like the big corridor. It takes into account Centerra and the Johnstown annexations. • Brown: The next step will be a regional travel demand study. Highway 392 and Carpenter Road has been identified as a regionally significant corridor. • Petterson: Is that the phase where you will try to determine how many of the folks are going to I-25 and how many are going across? Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 7of11 • Hart: We need to consider this board's responsibility. We're not interested in that happening in the Carpenter Road portion of this corridor. We don't have to consider the study. We want you to change your focus. • Galeano-Popp: We will do everything to accommodate that vision. If I do nothing else in this job it will be to give attention to this. • Donovan: Realizing it's one view point among many. • Galeano-Popp: It's a pivotal one. • Knowlton: In a way the cat is out of the bag. It's in the Master Street Plan. As soon as you do that, draw lines on a map, people get expectations. Now it's a game of having to back up and say maybe not. • Galeano-Popp: From the chair I'm in at CDOT, I'm not seeing predetermined notions about anything. • Fischer: This was four lanes on the master street plan till about a year ago. Then the proposal to upgrade it to six lanes. This board opposed that, in part because of the natural areas we've invested in. Council disregarded the recommendation of this board. Then it went a step further and turned it over to the State. • Skutchan: I'd like to acknowledge a few things. I think I have a different opinion on this subject. I understand that it is a regionally significant corridor. Just because a citizen doesn't use it, doesn't mean it's not appropriate. Arrangements like that are what keep people from being cooperative. When we purchase open space in areas, its not our goal to slow traffic down. There's a large degree of arrogance when you make those statements. It oversteps the bound of what open space is about. When you purchase land you have responsibility and culpability to many people. I'm bothered that the views of this board don't reflect all of the community. It's Council's decision. They're elected and we're not. We should see as much cooperation as possible. What is the best way to mitigate the two? I'd be happy with that. Coventry HOA — Hidden Cattails John Stokes said we've talked about this previously in a study session. It's the conveyance of a 2.1 acre tract of land to a Home Owners Association. The memo is self- explanatory. We need a recommendation from the NRAB to City Council. • Staychock: Why is it difficult for the natural areas program to maintain a small, isolated area? • Sears: Exactly because of that. It's out of our way to go maintain. • Staychock: Is the "maintenance" trash? • Sears: Yes, trash, and weed control. The HOA has really desired a higher level of maintenance than we're willing to give it. They approached us and said they're willing to take it over. We're more than willing to allow it. Typically this type of property would not come to us. I'm not sure why it was dedicated to the City instead of being left in the HOA for maintenance. • Staychock: Is the HOA currently involved in the Adopt A Natural Area program? Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 8 of 11 • Sears: I don't know if they are officially in that program, but they've been actively involved in the maintenance for several years. • Staychock: When an entity wants to volunteer to adopt a natural area, does that give them more tools to manage with? • Sears: No, not really. It's pretty much litter clean up. They can get involved in other aspects. But its not weed control or vegetation management. It's pretty much picking up litter. • Fischer: What happens if for some reason the HOA lets it go, or doesn't maintain it, or starts doing things that are not compatible with the terms and conditions of the conservation easement? • Sears: The enforcement is identical to any other conservation easement. We retain the right to take them court. We would go to a lot of other measures prior to going to court. • Skutchan: Is there anything different with it being a HOA? Has there been a precedent of working with HOA's? • Stokes: You never know, they might do damage and we might seek restitution. • Skutchan: What are their holdings? • Stokes: Probably fairly modest. • Donovan: They may have decent resources, but realistically there's not much to be done. • Sears: A court could file a lien against each and every property in the HOA, or they can file it against the property taxes. There are several legal ways, but it would be an extreme case. • Petterson: I understand the property may have some natural values, but in terms of prioritization, I'm inclined to go ahead with this. Rob Petterson made the following motion: Move that the NRAB recommend that City Council pass an Ordinance authorizing the conveyance of the 2.197 acres of the Hidden Catttails Natural Area to the Coventry HOA subject to the reserved Conservation Easement. The motion was seconded by Linda Knowlton. Staychock: I strongly oppose this. It sets a terrible precedent. I understand it can be difficult to manage 2.197 acres. But, I foresee rotten things, and how this can go out of control. We just purchased 12,000 acres near the Wyoming boarder. It could be misconstrued as to the reason that we're doing this. It's setting a bad precedent for the other areas. Stokes: We own and manage 34,000 acres now. This discreet two acre tract is completely separate from anything else we manage. It's very inefficient to manage this small, isolated piece of land that a HOA is completely willing to take care of. It's financially inefficient and distracts us from more important work we could be doing. I cant agree with your analysis. It makes a lot of sense for our program to dispose of it. That was acquired very early on in the program. We managed a few little pieces Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 9 of 11 of land. We are far beyond that. We're managing tens of thousands of acres. We're not setting any bad precedents. • Staychock: A developer donated this land. Who knows what his vision was. • Stokes: We own the conservation easement. Soapstone doesn't have a conservation easement, so in some ways its in more jeopardy. • Staychock: I understand it may cost too much money, but it's a natural area. I don't trust the HOA's to be good at conserving natural areas. It was given to the City for a good reason. I don't like this idea at all. • Fischer: You have to look at the history of the program. We have disposed of properties in the past, and hopefully we will dispose of properties in the future when its beneficial for the citizens of Fort Collins to do so. We can use the tools of purchasing land and putting conservation easements on them, and then disposing of them. In the Timnath separator that would be an excellent way to jump start the whole program. Instead of waiting, go out and do it. We've disposed of part of Arapaho Bend, it's now the Park & Ride. It's a tool. I don't think we can go forward with this program without the tool of being able to dispose of properties when its advantageous. It makes perfect sense to me. Of course, there are always risks. • Stokes: We will be using that tool a lot more, buying properties and putting easements on them and re -conveying them. Sometimes we have to, folks wont sell the conservation easement. It's a tool we'll be using quite a bit of. • Sears: Since this was acquired our policy is to not accept more properties like that. We expect them to conserve the natural resources to the lands adjacent to their HOA's. On a number of occasions we have developers pleading with us to take properties, and HOA's pleading with us to take over their properties like that. • Donovan: I agree with Randy. • Skutchan: I agree, it does make sense. I would be cautious. We've got these huge properties. We have to balance that. Some people feel these natural areas keep the value and small town feel to Fort Collins. Be careful of your language. • Skuchan: With this being more of a tool in the future, is there a screening process. What's the line of questions going into this? With more easements, there's more opportunities for things to go wrong. Are there classes, or information that fully explains the whole process? • Stokes: We haven't done any yet. I've done a lot in past lives. The land owners are very sophisticated, and very interested in conservation. They're familiar with the documents and processes, and we usually have a very good relationship. • Sears: Ryan's points are well taken. Is the HOA going to be back in five to ten years begging us to take it back? Or we could spend more time enforcing the conservation easement than we did managing it in the first place. But, it seems good now. • Skutchan: What documentation goes along with the successes, and the areas that didn't work so well? • Sears: It's a heavier handed tool that we would have had. The City does a fairly limited job enforcing green belts. It's hard to enforce. The motion passed with seven votes in favor, and one vote opposed (Ryan Staychock). Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 10 of 11 • Fischer: You mentioned that we don't have a conservation easement on Soapstone. I made a suggestion a while back that we should be putting conservation easements on all of the land we own. The future is uncertain. If we have conservation easements on them they will be protected even if 50 years from now a Council decides to get rid of them. • Stokes: We've talked about this. It's one of those things that's on the back burner. • Sears: The down side is there is a huge cost associated with it. Legacy Land Trust, or Latimer County would have to hold the easement. There's a pretty healthy fee up front. Review of Vegetation Guidelines & Update of Vegetation Management Activity, Rick Bachand, Matt Parker, Rachel Steeves Bachand and Parker reviewed the guidelines with the board. Parker presented a PowerPoint presentation detailing the recent activities of the vegetation crew. New Business Linda Knowlton asked for clarification of the attendance policy. Donovan said the City Attorney said the resolution applied to regularly scheduled meetings, that both meetings (the first and third Wednesdays) are regularly scheduled meetings, and that it's best if we take attendance at both of the meetings. Donovan said his interpretation is that if written notice is received it's not counted as an absence for the purpose of the attendance policy. Donovan said that other meetings called throughout the year would not count. Election of Officers Chair: Linda Knowlton nominated Nate Donovan for chair. Jerry Hart seconded the motion and Nate Donovan was elected unanimously. Vice Chair: Randy Fischer nominated Linda Knowlton for vice -chair. Nate Donovan seconded the motion and Linda Knowlton was elected unanimously. Committee Assignments Natural Areas: Glen Colton, Jerry Hart, Linda Knowlton, Randy Fischer Solid Waste: Jerry Hart, Ryan Staychock, Rob Petterson, Randy Fischer (chair), Nate Donovan Trails: Glen Colton, Ryan Staychock, Rob Petterson, Linda Knowlton, Joann Thomas, Clint Staychock Budget: Rob Petterson, Randy Fischer, Nate Donovan Ryan Staychock made a motion to drop all committees that no one has signed up for. The motion was seconded by Jerry Hart and passed with 7 votes in favor and one vote opposed (Nate Donovan). The committees that were dropped are Education, Growth Management and Futures. Other Business Natural Resources Advisory Board March 16, 2005 Page 11 of 11 • Fischer: I'd request that when a naming goes forward on a natural area from here on out that we be aware of it, instead of reading it in the newspaper. I'm hoping we can get a chance to weigh in on the names. • Stokes: Do you want to do that with Soapstone. We did the same process for some little sites down south. We got a lot of neat names. The name Bobcat Ridge was developed by the public. We'll whittle the list down to three, and bring it back to the next meeting. • Fischer: Will we be able to get a look at the kayaking proposal? • Stokes: Yes. • Stokes: Kudos to Joann for the nice soapbox. We appreciated that. • Stokes: We have decided on a candidate for the land manager position. We offered the job to Daylan Figgs from Nebraska. He works for Nebraska Parks and Game. • Stokes: We have at least one citizen in town who is irate with the dog off leash law, and our enforcement of it. He's determined to change that law and come after our ranger program. He's very serious about making this a cause. Staff is supportive of the law. We want to be prepared as a department to potentially have a dialogue going forward in the public. • Skutchan: With all of the watch dogs here I'm surprised that the proposal to put a theatre on the Oxbow didn't get brought up. • Stokes: Doug Moore reviews proposed projects. • Fischer: If it's a private development we can't comment as a board. That's why it hasn't been brought up. We have no mechanism to comment. There will be a major impact on the river corridor, but we cant comment. • Donovan: I'm fairly pleased to the how the work is progressing at Spring Canyon Community Park. They were sensitive to minimizing the disturbance of the corridor. • Rayn Staychock will not attend the April 6 meeting. Adjournment The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. Submitted by Terry Klahn Admin Support Supervisor