Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 03/26/2003City of Fort Collins Cultural, Library, and Recreational Services Golf Board Minutes: Regular Meeting of March 26, 2003 (Rescheduled from March 19, 2003) Council Liaison to the Board: Councilman Bill Bertschy Staff Support to the Board: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf at 221.6350, and Stacy Kelley, Administrative Aide at 416.2265 Call Meeting to Order: Chairperson Bill Rutledge called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Agenda Review: No changes to the printed agenda. Items of Note: • This is a rescheduled meeting from March 19, 2003. Official and Public Notices have been posted. • Lauren DeRosa telephoned that she would be unable to attend the meeting. • There are Boards and Commission training classes, if anyone is interested talk with Jerry. • Collindale Clubhouse Grand Opening Ceremony is this Friday, March 28 starting with mingling at 5:00 p.m., ribbon cutting and speakers at 5:30 p.m. Because of budget concerns, programs and ceremony expenses were kept at a very low cost. Purpose is to thank those individuals and companies who helped with the Collindale Clubhouse project. Approval of Minutes: On a motion by Mike Sanders and seconded by Claire Nelms, the Board voted unanimously (7:0) to approve the Minutes of the February 19, 2003 Regular Meeting. (Manny Jiminez arrived shortly after the vote). Citizen Participation: No Citizen Participation at this time. Discussion of the Structure of Golf Fees and Charges for 2004/2005: Jerry P. Brown summarized the Board's decision last month to only discuss the three remaining options of fees for 2004/2005. He noted that all three options would work with reserves and/or the required revenues that need to be achieved. He also stressed that there is not a recommendation from staff at this time but that staff could support any of the three options. There will be a Public Input/Comment Meeting on April 16`h and the Board needs to vote on a Preliminary Recommendation tonight so that it may be advertised and people can come on April 16`' and provide their input/comments to a specific recommendation. Go,` Board Minutes March 26, 2003 Larry Buckendorf expressed to the Board that we have had 6 to 8 months of gaining knowledge and we are well informed and should be ready to make a decision about a recommendation. He proposed that we should eliminate Annual Passes but look at alternative fee structures with significant discounts for Senior and Junior Golfers. David Johnson added his opinion that he would like to see the Board keep Restricted Passes with some kind of 10-play pass with a discount. Claire Nelms wants to keep the fees as status quo. She feels it would be detrimental to the Senior golfers to eliminate Annual Passes and that 10-play cards or anything else would not work and these other options would cost more than an Annual Pass. Seniors who are retired shouldn't be penalized for playing more rounds of golf. Mindy Markley made the clarification that Seniors that are Age 62 or older are currently receiving a discount on green fees and questioned why should they have an even greater discount than other golfers? Claire did not know that there was a discount for golfers who are age 62 or older and wanted to know when that change was made. Jerry answered the decision was made in 2000. Claire feels that if the members of the Board have talked together outside of the meeting to make a decision against Annual Passes that is inappropriate. Mike Sanders replied that the Board has not talked together to make a decision. Mike then asked if everyone is in agreement to give Seniors and Juniors a discount. Mike said he feels that fees should be set to allow an equitable discount to Seniors and Juniors. There was no disagreement. Mike passed out a formulation that he compiled to the Board members. These numbers state that it takes a certain amount of money to run the golf courses and detemunes how much money should be made per round to maintain the courses. There is damage to the courses no matter how much you play, whether once or 100 times. If you take an average of 145,000 rounds per year divided into a $2.3 million budget to run the golf courses it would take $15.86 to deliver a tee time to a player. For example, he explained that an adult pays $13 for 9 holes of golf during Non -Prime Time, Seniors who are age 62 or older pay $10. If you take an Annual Pass holder who plays the average 50 rounds of golf, they pay $11.04 in Non -Prime Time so it wouldn't save money for Seniors to use an Annual Pass. He further explained that the golfers who play 100 rounds of golf only pays $7.02 per round and 200 rounds a year pay $5.01 per round. Why should the players that can't play during Non -Prime Time pay the maintenance costs for those 100 or 200 round players? With the current fee structure, Seniors age 62 and older receive a 23% discount on Green Fees. This is probably fair even though it costs the city $15.86 for the round of golf. Juniors age 17 and under get even more of a discount. As a point of clarification, in 2002 Annual Pass card holders averaged 55.16 rounds of golf, so the fee structure as it is now really doesn't hurt those players. Mike wanted to make a clarification to Bill Rutledge's previous concern that Seniors are on a fixed income. Mike feels everyone fixes their own income. The people who want to play golf will still play golf. Maybe they have to restrict how much they spend on golf. When you look at the average Senior they don't have the expenses that require the income that they used to bring home. Claire doesn't think it is fair because these Seniors can't get supplemental income from other jobs like someone who has a career. It was noted that someone who has a career probably doesn't have the time to play as much golf. Jerry stated that Fort Collins is one of the few places that still have Annual Passes. He estimates that over 80% of Colorado golf courses do not have Annual Passes equivalent to Fort Collins. The reason why they don't is because of the issue of being fair and equitable to their golfers, and the revenue loss of having passes. The City of Fort Collins should not be in the business to give deep pocket discounts when it does not make sense financially. Claire said that many of the older courses have Annual Passes and asked why they weren't getting rid of them? Jerry has talked to all of the Goli Board M nutes March 26, 2003 Northern Colorado golf course Managers and they all expressed a desire to get rid of them because they are not fair and equitable and they no longer make sense financially, but because of local political reasons they have not found a way to eliminate them. Grant Sherwood mentioned that if there were a new golf course opening there would not be Annual Passes because of the supply and demand factor and financial reasons. Manny Jiminez said we started Annual Passes to bring more people to the game of golf but that reason is no longer applicable. Mike said we no longer need Annual Pass revenue up front to run the courses. He understands that golfers take a risk of not being able to use their passes due to inclement weather, but he feels that all golfers in Fort Collins can get in at least 36 rounds of golf a year. Mike feels that a 23% discount for Seniors is deep enough. The City can't afford to continue to charge fees significantly below the cost for the City to run the courses. Mindy explained that she used to have an Annual Pass but when she was previously on the Board a couple years ago she realized the responsibility of the Board was to make golf fair and equitable for all of the citizen's and not for an elite group. Annual Passes as they are today are not equal or fair for everyone. Mike stated that the same people who don't want to eliminate Annual Passes are the same people who don't want to spend money for improvements. The golfers should feel fortunate that every dime they spend stays right here for the courses. He asked SouthRidge Superintendent Randy Bonneville how much money it would take to replace a green. Randy replied greens average $40,000 a piece and they generally last 35-40 years. Mike said the City of Fort Collins provides quality courses to the citizens and even with our current Green Fees it is still cheaper to play here than other courses. Bill clarified that though most Seniors don't have children in the home and some of their expenses are paid, there are still other expenses that retirement or the government doesn't take care of like pharmaceuticals. He feels that the Seniors have to pay taxes on other forms of recreation even if they don't use the services like the Lincoln Center, EPIC, Library, and Transfort, and they don't ever break even. This needs to be addressed. Jerry mentioned that to the best of his knowledge, not one course along the Front Range is subsidized by municipalities. The closest department in Fort Collins that is self-supporting are the Cemeteries. Lincoln Center's performances and rentals pay 100% of their way, and many recreational programs are 100% self-supporting. Only the permanent employee's salaries and construction of facilities for these programs are subsidized by tax payer's funds. Bill said that if the Council sees how much more money the golf courses could make, they might want to use that revenue for other city programs. He feels the Board has a better chance of getting the fee structure approved if they allow keeping Restricted Passes or maintaining the status quo. He strongly feels that if the Board eliminates Annual Passes all together, Council will not approve that kind of change and the Board would have a better chance by eliminating Unrestricted Passes. Mike said he spoke with Council Member Bill Bertschy as to whether or not Council might approve the action of eliminating Annual Passes but maintaining a fair and equitable discount to the Seniors and Juniors. In Bill's opinion he said he thought they might approve that action. Mindy explained to the Board that she works with elderly in medical situations and that no one gets a discount for the number of times they come to the doctor or the number of times they fill a prescription, but they still go to the doctor and fill their prescriptions. If Seniors want to play golf they will play golf. Golf Board Minutes March 26, 2003 Mike stated that if the Board recommends eliminating Unrestricted Passes and allowing Restricted Passes that would only create a more elite class of golfers that would play in Non -Prime Time and everyone else would be subsidizing those rounds. The Non -Prime Time Green Fee Rates as they are today give the Seniors a 23% discount and that is a fair discount. Bill wanted to know what the Front Range Golf Managers thought was an appropriate discount for golfers. Jerry replied that there is no answer to this question, but that most courses set the discounts and the golfers usually receive a 10-20% discount. Non -Prime Time is when a lot of the courses provide a $2-5 off discount for Seniors and Juniors. Mindy stated that the Board often gets portrayed that they are against the Senior population. Our response to those people is that the Board is responsible to all of the citizens. Mike said that today we are self-sufficient and the fees today without passes would be equitable and council will understand. Mike said the Board knows there will be angry people and they might not choose to play in Fort Collins, but it only makes sense to have the bullet to the heart once. This is only approved for 2004/2005, and after that we can re-evaluate. Jerry said as the "Baby Boomers" get older they could purchase a large amount of passes. Dan Hake, a member of the Men's Association at Collindale, noted he has been a resident of Fort Collins since 1987. He is very concerned with the possibility of eliminating Annual Passes. He believes that many people move to Fort Collins because of the great opportunities of affordable recreation in the community and that the passes help create that affordable opportunity for golfers. He questioned the Board on the repercussions of eliminating the passes. He feels strongly that eliminating Annual Passes would take away the benefit that many people might move here for. Jerry explained many people have a pass to be pan of a membership, and in the past they dominated the courses, but that is not so today. By eliminating or restricting passes we are making fees fair and equitable to everyone, not just "members". Claire gave her opinion that she knows a lot of women who will refuse to play if they take away Annual Passes. Bill mentioned that before the Board votes on any recommendation that he would like to see the fees and discounts that are being proposed in writing. Mike replied that they are in writing as they are the fees that are posted today. Mike Sanders then made a motion to recommend that 2004 Daily Green Fees stay the same as they are now without any Annual Passes. Lang Buckendorf seconded. Discussion was raised that this would go into effect January 1, 2004 but the 2003 Annual Pass card holders would still be able to use their passes until February 29, 2004. Motion passed 6-2. Bill Rutledge voted "no" because the City is supplementing so marry other programs and it is inappropriate that they don't subsidize Golf. He also feels we should retain Restricted Passes. Claire Nelms voted "no" because the budget has been fine as status quo and there is not a reason to change. Dave wants to see punch card discounts for the working person and be able to use them for play during Prime and Non -Prime Times and the discount should be from the Prime Time fees. Jerry mentioned that the 10-Play Punch Cards are currently discounted at 17% of the Prime Time Fee. Discussion was made about the discount being the same for Adults, Seniors, and Juniors during any time. Claire said Seniors would be paying more for a round of golf with a punch card than an annual pass. Dave explained that during Non -Prime Time Seniors should pay the green fee at the 23% discount but during the Prime Time they would still receive a 20% discount. Larry Buckendorf Golf Board Minutes March 26, 2003 then made a motion for recommending a 10-Play Punch Card for 9-holes for $120 and for 18-holes for $190. Seconded by Grant Sherwood. Motion passed 7-1. Claire Nelms voted "no" because it isn't fair for those who play with an Unrestricted Annual Pass, and they will pay too much. Mindy asked Jerry if the Board had to take a final vote at the April meeting. Jerry replied that he would like to have a vote that night but that the Board doesn't have to have a final vote until the May meeting. Mindy mentioned that she had a conflict with April's meeting but would really like to be a part of the voting forum. Mike asked if a Board Member couldn't be present if they could e- mail or write their vote and Jerry replied that Board Members must be present at the meeting to vote. Bill noted that he will also miss the April meeting. Jerry explained that the April 16`' meeting will be a Public Input/Comment Meeting and the citizens will know the Preliminary Recommendation and reasons from the Board. This meeting will allow citizens to voice their opinions whether or not they agree or disagree with the Boards Preliminary Recommendation and their reasons for their opinion. The Board will then vote on their Final Recommendation to the City Manager at the May 21" meeting. Budget Input and 2003-2005 Council Policy Agenda: Jerry asked the Board if there was any input that the Board would like to make for the 2004-2005 City Budget or the 2003-2005 Council Policy Agenda. Past input included a potential new golf course, and discussion about the Golf Fund. It was unanimously agreed that the Board did not want to bring up anything about the Golf Fund at this time. Election of Board Officers for 2003/2004: Jerry mentioned that Chairperson Bill Rutledge will complete 6 1/2 years on the Board in December and he cannot reapply next year for the Board, and he told Jerry he would not like to be re-elected and will relinquish his duties as Chairperson. Mike Sanders nominated David Johnson as Chairperson. There were no other nominations. David Johnson was elected Chairperson 7:0:1 by acclamation (with David abstaining). Mike Sanders nominated Mindy Markley as Vice Chairperson. There were no other nominations. Mindy Markley was elected Vice Chairperson 7:0:1 by acclamation (with Mindy abstaining). Mike Sanders nominated Lauren DeRosa as Board Secretary. There were no other nominations. Lauren De Rosa was elected Board Secretary 8:0 by acclamation. (Lauren was not present). Other Business: • "Fort Collins Fore Kids" Golf Clinic will be held this year on Tuesday, June 10, at City Park Nine Golf Course. Flyers are distributed. Walrus has again volunteered free ice cream for participants and golf clubs have again been donated by John Hanrahan, PGA, from the Fort Collins County Club for the event. This clinic went very smoothly in the past so we will continue to run as it has before. Golf Board Minutes March 26, 2003 • Jerry discussed the water situation. The snow has been helpful. Snow pack for the Poudre River should get water in Warren Reservoir, which should be enough water for Collindale. He mentioned that the City Council discussed restricting the use of raw water for the golf courses. At this time they are not going to restrict the use but might do so if the drought becomes worse. • Grant Sherwood thanked Bill Rutledge for his dedicated service to the Board as Chairperson, and Bill received an ovation from those in attendance. Adjournment: Mindy Markley made a motion to adjourn at 8:54 p.m., seconded by Grant Sherwood. Motion passed unanimously (8:0). Respectfully submitted, Stacy Kelley Administrative Aide Meeting Attendance: Board Members Staff Guests Larry Buckendorf Randy Bonneville Wesley Dinsmoor Manny Jiminez Jerry P. Brown Dan Hake Dave Johnson Pat Finnegan Shane Houska Mindy Markley Jim Greer Bill Martin Claire Nelms Stacy Kelley Marla Nelson Bill Rutledge Scott Sommers Grant Sherwood Mike Sanders