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Landmark Preservation Commission
December 3, 1986 -
Meeting Minutes
The meeting began at 5:32 p.m., at 200 West Mountain Ave. Members present
included, Wayne Sundberg, Michael Ehler, Holly Richter, Carol Tunner, Sally
Ketcham, and Jennifer Carpenter. Staff was represented by Elaine Kleckner
and Barbara Hendrickson.
Ms. Kleckner began the meeting with noting the addition of Mitchell and Co.,
and their application for sculptures in Old Town Square.
AGENDA REVIEW
Comedy Reviewed by Sally Ketcham and Dick Beardmore.
Issues: Type of sign; illumination; and sign placement. Coloring of sign
is not felt to be harmonious.
O'Hair's: Reviewed by Carol Tunner and Jennifer Carpenter.
Issues: None. It was noted the tree might be problem for visibility.
*Mr. Ehler will abstain from voting on this application.
Mitchell & Co.:
Issues: lacement of statue, permanent/temporary attachment; location of
sculptures; vandalism; size of statues; number of statues to be rotated.
236 Linden Street Project
Steve Slezak, representing the applicant, told the Commission that he has
50 of the original brick from the parapet but needs 550. He asked to be
allowed to offer the alternatives to finding matching bricks. He showed
the bricks that had been stained and what they looked like after painting.
Ms. Tunner asked if the brick that was up there was different colors.
Ms. Carpenter thought there was some burgundy colored brick up there
already and they would take the stain much differently. She wondered if he
had a sample to show.
Mr. Slezak stated that all three thousand bricks were taken to the parking
lot and spray -painted together. Another option he showed the Commission
was one of the original bricks which had been "sliced". He said that they
can get 10 slices per brick and laminate each slice onto the existing brick
and this would allow them to get better mortar joints than the existing
ones. He talked with some professionals and they would use Lata-crete,
which .is an epoxy tile adhesive. An example of a structure using Lata-crete
is the Linden Bridge, using sliced brick.
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Ms. Carpenter asked if they could get the amount needed from slicing the
original brick. She thought the breakage might cause Mr. Slezak to lose
some needed brick.
Mr. Slezak showed the Commission examplesofnew brick slices made by the
Robinson Brick Company. He stated that this particular brick only comes in
a rough wire cut or the example, which is a rough matte texture but they
could get a smooth cut brick. He noted that the color is very similar to
the original brick in this manufactured brick.
Mr. Ehler asked if the applicant intended to use this manufactured brick
only when he had breakage in the original bricks.
Mr. Slezak stated their preferred intent would be the manufactured brick,
as they can get unlimited brick.
Ms. Carpenter asked if this technique was economically more feasible. She
asked if it would be cheaper to simply glue these on rather than rebuild
the whole parapet.
Mr. Slezak stated yes. He stated the parapet is in a bad way and he is not
sure what the new brick would do if it were laid on in a much more perma-
nent fashion than the brick that fell out. He felt they may have to tear
down the parapet and rebuild it. He said they would have remove part of
the crown and build it out so it would be flush.
Ms. Carpenter asked what would happen around the side, where the brick
comes together.
Mr. Slezak could get them cut in corner pieces. He said that this tech-
nique is used quite extensively. The detail on the cornice will be lami-
nated and will be protected. He said they would have to remove part of the
crown, replace it and then move it, as it would be thicker and would need
to be modified.
Ms. Carpenter asked if they just needed to change the angle and not modify
the whole cornice.
Mr. Slezak answered yes.
Ms. Richter asked if there was any guarantee on the manufactured bricks.
Mr. Slezak stated that he was told there is a lifetime, unconditional guar-
antee. He said the City Newstand building in Longmont (located where 3rd
Ave. comes into the Main Street) had used these manufactured bricks five
years ago and they haven't had any problems. He would like to request the
use of the Robinson Bricks for the project.
Ms. Carpenter asked if since the brick from the Robinson Brick Co, is a
close match in color, could the applicant get whole brick also.
Mr. Slezak replied they could get whole brick and cut it. He stated they
Landmark °reserva 'on Commission - Dec. 3, 1986
Page 3 •
would use the cut surface, as it is similar in texture. The rough side
would be the side most conducive to the adhesive.
Ms. Richter felt this option better than replacing the whole parapet. She
stated this would be a "band -aid" and would have been better to have used
the original brick.- She asked the size of manufactured brick in relation
to the existing brick.
Mr. Slezak stated the depth is the same but the width and the length are
different. The length is 1/2" longer.
Ms. Richter stated the new joints would not relate to the old joints.
Mr. Slezak said this was correct but that they are separated by the cor-
nice.
Ms. Richter said the bricks that are in the parapet right now will not
relate to the overlay joints.
Mr. Slezak stated they wouldn't want them to, as they want them more accu-
rately matched with the correct butter joints. He showed the color example
for the painting of the downspout. He stated it was a mixed pro -mar paint.
Ms. Richter asked if it needed to be primed or it went directly on.
Mr. Slezak stated the downspout on the south side would not require a
primer but the downspout on the east side would need primer. He asked the
Commission's permission to also paint the staircase the same color. He
stated the current staircase is several colors and rusting. He stated the
fire escape on the Antler's is reddish in color.
Ms. Tunner asked if this needed to be changed on the plan.
Mr. Sundberg replied yes.
Ms. Kleckner asked the applicant for the color and number of the paint.
Mr. Ehler asked if the LPC had approved any color for the building.
Mr. Slezak stated they had approved colors for the southern windows and the
trim.
Mr. Ehler asked what the colors were.
Ms. Ketcham replied ivory and burgundy.
Mr. Slezak stated the easterly windows and doors haven't been done but are
to be the same colors - blue with ivory.
Ms. Ketcham asked if the traditional color for a fire escape is black.
Ms. Carpenter thought the LPC would not be approving the fire escape color
at this time.
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Mr. Sundberg stated that this request could be added to the application.
Mr. -Slezak felt that either black or the {proposed color would be fine with
the applicant.
Ms. Richter felt the brick color would not draw attention to the fire
escape.
Ms. Tunner moved to approve the Robinson Company face brick application to
the parapet and that we use the presented color for the downspout, as noted
on the sample which was presented, and the fire escape in the back be
painted the same color as the downspout. The Robinson Brick is colored
Rosetan - 200.
Ms. Ketcham asked if the motion should include method of attaching the
brick.
Ms. Tunner asked Mr. Slezak if he was going to try and match the joints and
use butter joints to match the brick.
Mr. Slezak replied yes, that the Lata-crete epoxy that is used to laminate
the brick.
Ms. Tunner added to the motion that the brick be attached using Lata-crete
and the butter joint mortaring should try and match the mortar to the best
of their ability. Ms. Ketcham seconded the motion.
Ms. Sundberg asked if the motion should include the size of the mortar.
Mr. Slezak said not only would it match but in a real brick application,
its all squeezed together and here its more like grout.
Ms. Richter asked if the Lata-crete will last like mortar.
Mr. Slezak stated the Lata-crete is more like a tiling approach. First you
put it on there and then you grout.
Ms. Richter asked if the grout will look like mortar.
Mr. Slezak stated yes.
Mr. Sundberg asked for clarification on which side of the brick would be
applied and which side would be showing.
Ms. Carpenter asked if the term grout meant the application of the grout.
Mr. Sundberg stated it would be mortar. The Lata-crete is just the glue.
Ms. Tunner asked that the color of the existing mortar be matched.
Mr. Slezak stated that they would match the mortar.
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Page 5
Mr. Sundberg asked that the motion include; the coloring for the downspout
and the fire escape be the color marked on the amended plans.
Ms. Kleckner asked that the motion include; the mortar should match the
rest of the building.
Ms. Tunner asked about the shadows given off by the different depths of
brick on the parapet.
Mr. Slezak suspected some irregularities on south and east brick because of
the inconsistency of the matte.
Ms. Tunner noted on the pictures shown by Ms. Kleckner that the shadows on
the parapet along the horizontal - the prominence of the brick was differ-
ent.
Mr. Slezak stated the reason was because the thin butter joints are
stricken, they are were done wrong and that would be completely covered.
The first and second motions (with conditions) to approve the application
was passed 6-0.
COMEDY WORKS
Steve Lind of Gardner Signs stated gave a brief review of the signs. He
said there are two signs (Entrance and Exit) and these signs would be the
exact same design. He said the only part that will be illuminated in the
evening would be the circles around the edge of the sign which will be
either routed or lit by small mini -light. The words "Comedy Works" would
be the only other thing illuminated, so at night you would only see the
circles and Comedy Works and the background would not be illuminated.
Ms. Carpenter asked what he meant by routed.
Mr. Lind said the metal or plastic used is drilled out. The hole is backed
with another color of plexi-glass. They are proposing a backing of white
plexi-glass or white bulbs and the copy would be backed with red plexi-
glass. So you would just see the white and red at night, the white circles
and the red copy.
Ms. Carpenter asked if the red had to be routed.
Mr. Lind replied yes, it was the only you can have this effect done. It's
cut back in and gives a little more dimension to it. The less expensive
way to do this would be to flush paint the sign and they are choosing a
more classy sign with some dimension. They had thought of variations, such
as having the words, "Comedy Works" built out slightly and still have the
copy illuminated. They know for sure that the copy and circles are to be
illuminated.
Ms. Carpenter asked if this was not the final which was being presented.
Mr. Lind stated this was the final, and that he was just mentioning the
Landmark Preserva•on Commission - Dec. 3, )�6
Page 6
variables.
Ms. Carpenter asked what the variables were.
Mr. Lind said the variables is either the flat surface routed out with a
piece of plexi-glass behind it or the letter, itself, built -out about 1"
with light coming from behind.
Ms. Richter told the applicant the LPC needed to know exactly what was
being presented for approval.
Mr. Lind asked for the LPC's opinion to go with a routed or built out sign,
since the customer will go either way. He thought the average person would
not notice the difference but the customer doesn't want a flat surface. He
wants to know if the sign is acceptable.
Ms. Ketcham asked if he was proposing light bulbs, as was described in his
review of the sign.
Mr. Lind stated that there was a slight possibility that the customer might
want to want some variance but the customer hasn't made up his mind.
Ms. Carpenter told the applicant that the LPC could not act on the applica-
tion unless it was a final plan, unless he was seeking conceptual review.
Ms. Ketcham asked if the customer wanted this red color.
Mr. Lind stated the colors were the logo colors.
Ms. Richter asked if they could use a burgundy color.
Mr. Lind stated that burgundy was not a good illuminating color.
Ms. Ketcham said there was a burgundy awning which was directly opposite
from the Comedy Works.
Mr. Lind asked if the Commission did not approve with the colors.
Ms. Carpenter said they want the colors to be harmonious.
Ms. Ketcham said that with the letters being 10" (upper case letters) and
8"(lower case letters), it wasn't a very large sign.
Mr. Lind said there isn't enough room to have a very large sign.
Ms. Carpenter asked if the guidelines suggest the background be dark and
the lettering be light. She asked the applicant if they could switch the
coloring.
Mr. Lind said the letters in the logo are red.
Ms. Carpenter asked the wattage of the florescent lights.
0
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Page 7
Ms. Ketcham asked if the sign would be on only at night.
Mr. Lind said there would be no advantage to the sign being on in the day.
He stated the wattage is the normal wattage.
Mr. Ehler asked if there was a backing under the ivory that doesn't allow
light through, just through the script itself.
Mr. Lind replied yes. He said the plexi-glass was opaque and the light
coming through would be soft.
Ms. Ketcham felt this application was different from the usual ones seen by
the LPC.
Mr. Lind pointed out that this building is not a turn of the century build-
ing and the sign is small and needs to draw attention to the business.
Ms. Richter asked how the designation of entrance and exit are to be
arranged.
Mr. Lind said that has not been discussed and that they would probably be
brought before the LPC.
Mr. Ehler moved to approve the application as submitted. Ms. Carpenter
seconded the motion.
Ms. Ketcham felt that because the business is set back that the sign is
fine.
Ms. Richter asked the applicant the sign size.
Mr. Lind stated the band is about 1 1/2".
Motion to approve passed 6-0.
Old Town Associates
Victoria Hilton, representing the applicant, showed examples of the sculp-
tures and stated that with the base, they would all be 6'.
Mr. Ehler asked the material for the pedestal.
Ms. Hilton thought they would be wood material at least 14" tall and there
will always be art displayed or the pedestal removed and the brick
replaced. She said that every three months, new art will be brought in on
a loan basis.
Ms. Richter asked if they had given thought to vandalism.
Ms. Hilton stated that the base will link into the ground and are very
heavy. She said the Lincoln Center will cover the insurance.
Mr. Ehler asked if the application was just the removal of the brick to
Landmark Preserv*on Commission - Dec. 3, 1006
Page 8
place the pedestal and not the artwork.
Mr. Sundberg said the application asks to remove the corner block and
install the clamps in the ground to hold 6' statues. He thought they
needed to decide if the stone can be taken out and clamps put in, as well
as, the placement of these statues.
Ms. Hilton stated the pedestals will change with the piece, as each artist
will have to construct his own pedestal. They will not be any larger than
the drain.
Ms. Carpenter asked what happens when the stone comes out.
Ms. Hilton stated that although they will vary in size they will not be
larger than the drain area.
Ms. Richter asked if the LPC needed to review the replacement of the new
stone or simply include this condition in the motion.
Ms. Kleckner said this could be part of the motion.
Ms. Ketcham felt that Old Town could face problems if the artwork were
extreme or out of keeping with the style of Old Town.
Ms. Hilton answered that would not be a problem. She stated she could come
back with pictures of art to be exhibited.
Ms. Carpenter motioned to approve the application with the following condi-
tion: that should the stone need replacement that it be of the same type of
stone removed. Mr. Ehler seconded the motion. Motion passed 6-0.
The minutes from the last meeting were reviewed and corrections noted.
Ms. Tunner felt there should be guidelines regarding the placement of signs
indicating businesses which are located around -the -corner. She asked if
the Commission should discuss this in some point in time.
Ms. Kleckner felt the guidelines could be amended during a meeting while
discussing Other Business.
Mr. Sundberg thought that after the first of the year the LPC could review
the guidelines.
O'Hairs
Hermie Lapoint, representing the applicant, said that the owner is changing
his logo, as he felt the moustache connotes that it is more male oriented
and since he serves both male and female felt he had to change the sign.
He also decided to change the colors of the logo. The sign would be a
sandblasted redwood sign as is currently there but the color will be brown
and gold and flush mounted on the brick. She stated the old logo is cur-
rently in the larger window frontage of his shop and has now has a reflec-
tive covering in the window which causes the sign not to show up very well,
Landmark Preservation Commission - Dec. 3, 1986
Page 9 0 •
so he has decided to move the sign to the window next to the door.
Mr. Sundberg asked if the sign was to be mounted in the same spot.
Ms. Lapoint replied yes.
Ms. Richter asked the size of sign in the window.
Ms. Carpenter said it appeared 18" wide.
Ms. Lapoint wasn't sure of the size.
Ms. Tunner stated that the applicant was going from the large sign to a
much smaller one and felt he was well within the code.
Ms. Ketcham moved to approve window sign in gold subject to scale and the
sign that will be affixed to the wall to replace the one that is presently
there. Ms. Richter seconded the motion. Motion to approve passed 5-0,
with Mr. Ehler abstaining from voting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Mr. Ehler said the colors on "Rumors" are outlandish.
Ms. Carpenter felt that the color is not Restoration Rose. She wondered if
there was any way to approach the owner.
Ms. Kleckner said that if the colors weren't the approved colors they would
be able to ask him to change the colors.
Mr. Ehler thought they could ask him to reconsider the colors.
Ms. Ketcham felt that this building was very different than the building at
236 Linden.
Ms. Richter asked if they could meet at the site after the meeting to check
the colors.
Ms. Tunner stated she went to Denver to the State Historical Society and
they presented a Preservation Honor Award to the Fort Collins Municipal
Railway Society - Steven H. Hart Award. The Historical Society considered
11 projects around the state for preservation honor awards and it is an
honor to be chosen on a state-wide basis.
The meeting adjourned at 7:20 p.m. The LPC Christmas dinner was to be held
after the meeting at the Suehiro Restaurant.