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HomeMy WebLinkAboutLandmark Preservation Commission - Minutes - 03/04/1987LANDMARK PRESERVATION COMMISSION MARCH 4, 1987 MINurES The regular meeting of the Landmark Preservation Commission was called to order at 5:40 p.m., at 200 West Mountain Avenue. Commission members present included Wayne Sundberg, Carol Tunner, Michael Ehler, Holly Richter, Sally Ketcham, Jennifer Carpenter and Dick Beardmore. Staff members present included Elaine Kleckner and Kayla Ballard. AGENDA REVIEW 236 Linden - (Michael and Sally) Ms. Kleckner stated that the applicant did submit colored photos and old and new colored renderings for this proposal. Ms. Ketcham stated she had nothing to add if the Commission concurred on the burgundy/orange colors. Mr. Beardmore stated he would have to abstain from discussion and voting on this proposal due to a potential conflict of interest. He did suggest to the applicant that if the doors were changed he would have to get LPC approval. 252/256 Linden - (Carol, Holly, Dick) Ms. Kleckner explained to the Commission that from a legal standpoint regarding the white baked enamel. Through the staff report and the minutes the Commission is on sound legal grounds with the information that they have and written record to make the applicant use white. The applicant is aware of this, as is the Housing Authority. The Housing Authority is will- ing to do anything Mr. Dean wants to make the windows canpatible. Mr. Beardmore stated that this is a non-contributing building but is sur- rounded by primarily significant buildings. It is the only white building on that block that has bare metal on it and is in need of painting. Also, the signs are painted differently than what was approved by LPC. He felt that the windows need to be painted white if the building is to be painted white. He added that, in his opinion, maybe the solid windows on the first floor should be switched over to sliders. Ms. Ketcham canpared the windows on this building with the windows on the amphitheatre on the CSU campus. Ms. Tunner had a concern about the paint chipping off in 1-1/2 to 2 years. Mr. Beardmore stated that there is red brick underneath the existing paint. Ms. Kleckner stated that it was not too clear fran the submittal but the 2 smaller windows on the Jefferson Street side are to be opaque glass. LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meetin• • Ms. Richter stated that if the 2 windows on the Riverside Street side are going to be replaced with sliders then all of the windows should be slid- ers. She added that the numbers on the application do not correspond with the ones on the photos. Ms. Tunner questioned the bare metal on the building and if it was to the guidelines on Page 19 and 20. Ms. Kleckner stated that most structures on the block are contributing and the guidelines apply to these. Ms. Carpenter felt the Commission needs to address the signage as far as reapproving it or having the applicant resubmit since it does not conform to what was approved. Ms. Kleckner stated that the Commission can tell the applicant that what was put up for signage was not what was approved and they would have to change it or the Commission would enforce the violation. Mr. Ehler asked how the Commission was going to handle the application. Mr. Sundberg stated that the clear anodized aluminum is not acceptable unless it is painted white. This includes the door. The application is based on the building being white. Also in question is the slider windows although they are okay if painted white. Mr. Beardmore stated that the application has to succeed to the Code. Pied Piper Deli - (Wayne, Jennifer) Mr. Sundberg stated that he and Jennifer agree with Elaine's assessment of the application. However, they are unccmfortable with the size of the sign. It overpowers the building. Ms. Kleckner stated that the applicant is aware of the size concern but felt their particular business needs to attract passersby. Ms. Ketcham stated she had a problem with the sign being in a vertical position. Ms. Carpenter stated that the colors are compatible. 252/256 LINDEN Jim Kline, Housing Authority, stated he was present for any questions regarding 252 Linden. Mr. Beardmore asked for confirmation that they are not proposing to paint the building. Mr. Kline stated that was correct. All they are proposing is to change out the windows and to match with Black's Glass as far as colors are concerned. -2- LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meetin• • Mr. Beardmore also asked for confirmation regarding the white door versus the aluminum on the first floor. Mr. Kline stated that the Housing Authority only has one door to paint that faces Linden Street. Mr. Beardmore asked for clarification of the windows upstairs on the Jef- ferson Street side. Mr. Kline replied that the double windows are sliders and the singles are casements of natural wood. The grid is not proposed at this time. Ray Dean, 256 Linden, Black's Glass, appeared at this time. Ms. Ketcham asked for confirmation of opaque glass being proposed for only the 2 smaller windows on the first floor of the Jefferson Street side. Mr. Dean stated that this is what they are proposing for those 2 smaller windows. Ms. Carpenter asked if the larger windows on the Jefferson Street side are sliders or casement. Mr. Dean stated they are fixed. The three in the back are fixed, three with grids in them are casements but fixed due to several layers of paint. He is proposing the 2 smaller ones be replaced with fixed glass matching the ones in the back. Ms. Richter stated she would like to see the larger first story windows on the Jefferson Street side be sliders to be consistent with the other win- dows on the second story. Mr. Dean stated that the 2 smaller windows are bathrocros, the bigger one his office, and the back three are warehouse space windows. They have no problems with making the windows consistent with the Housing Authority win- dows. Mr. Beardmore asked for confirmation of door coloring from the previous meeting. Ms. Kleckner reiterated that the records and minutes did show approval of painting the door white. Mr. Dean replied that he understood that he is required to paint the door white as approved by the Commission. Mr. Beardmore asked for more information on the storefront system colors that are available. He added that since the building and doors will stay white the windows should conform to that color. He referred to Guidelines discussed in the Agenda Review. Mr. Dean stated that this was discussed at the previous meeting and that it -3- LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meetinj • Mr. Dean stated that this was discussed at the previous meeting and that it is available in white. If it presents more cost they would rather leave it as is. The finish is anodized and not silvery. The clear unfinished is almost a silvery color. This is what is in the existing storefront. They are trying to bring it up to code and make the building appealing. Hope- fully they can cut down the expense as well as the time involved. Currently it is not up to code. If these windows get broken, they would be replaced with tempered glass. Ms. Richter asked the applicant if he had the choice of plain metal or painting the windows or not doing it at all, what would he choose. Mr. Dean replied that they would not do it at all. If clear anodized were installed and painted, there would be continual maintenance. He added that they moved into the building anticipating upgrading the building, bringing it up to code, etc. but were also on a very limited budget, as is the Hous- ing Authority. If this is not approved, they will back off and it will be a while before anything is done and they will have to live with it the way it is. He added that he and Mr. Kline have discussed this but have not ruled out that down the road they would consider painting the building. Conces- sions have been made at the last meeting regarding the two storefronts that will cost them and the Housing Authority. Mr. Sundberg stated that an issue is raised on what if the building were painted a brick color then that won't look good. Mr. Beardmore stated that the Commission tried to respect the fact that even new structures are not clear anodized. They totally backed off with new structures that were asking for clear anodized and still had problems. Ms. Tunner felt that the choice was to paint all upper and lower windows white and then make the decision on whether they should stay with the storefront as it exists or live with a larger extense of aluminum or have it painted white. Mr. Dean stated that at the last meeting the rounded system was discussed and he was given the indication that it was preferred. Mr. Sundberg stated that if the clear aluminum is introduced. The color is it as is or go with painting it white. anodized is used, a lot more colored the question now and to either leave Mr. Dean stated the sign and front door entrance is clear aluminum. Ms. Carpenter stated that the sign is not as approved and this brings up another problem. Ms. Kleckner stated that these are 2 separate applications and need to be voted on separately. -4- LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meet • APPROVAL OF FEBRUARY 24, 1987 MINUTES The minutes of the February 24, 1987 meeting minutes were approved as pre- sented. OTTER BUSINESS Ms. Kleckner stated that Barry Feldman, Boy Scout Master, needs someone to speak on Historic Old Town for Monday, March 9, 1987. She asked if anyone was interested. If not, maybe Mr. Feldman can postpone having a speaker until their April meeting. Ms. Carpenter stated that the Old Town Craft Shoppe sign is still in place. The Commission needs to follow up on this. She also had a concern about Chow's Garden's paper signs and why they are still up. Another concern was the trash dumpster by the Town Pump and the need for a follow up on Black's Glass sign. Ms. Kleckner stated that she and Mr. Sundberg will be following up on these matters. She stated a letter will be written to Mr. Dean that his sign is not in compliance with the Commission decision and he will have to resubmit for his signage. Mr. Sundberg offered to handle the problem with Black's Glass signage. Mr. Ehler brought to the Commission's attention that the building next to Holiday's is being used as a church. He stated that there is more signage now. He questioned if this was against sign code violation. Mr. Sundberg announced that the Commission is invited to the Historical Society's Annual Dinner which will be held the first Tuesday in April at CSU. At this dinner Dick Beardmore will receive a recognition award for his work in Historic Preservation. There will also be a preservation award given to the City for Martinez Farm Fire Tager project. The charge will be $9.50 per person and the contact person is Ruth Rittenhouse. The meeting adjourned at 8:35 p.m. LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meet Jeff Newton stated he looks at this at the standpoint of advertising. If you put everything at a generic point, then you have is no visibility. He did agree that the letters did not appear to be to scale. Apparently the problem is the design and either the 13" letters or the way they appear. He then asked the Commission if it would be acceptable to have the lettering straight across the top 3 panels and having them 12" letters. However, if it were to be straight across, it would not be their logo. Their logo is arched lettering. Ms. Tunner suggested that the applicants reduce the size of the letters, arch them and place them in the middle 3 panels, not the top 3 panels. Mr. Ehler asked the applicants if they would feel comfortable with resub- mitting another design since they now have some direction from the Commis- sion. Jeff Newton stated yes but they would like to submit a couple of different drawings for approval because they can submit three different designs. Ms. Kleckner stated that the Guidelines can give them some suggestions too. They suggest alignment with other signs on the block. Mr. Sundberg suggested the applicants work with Ms. Kleckner on 2 or 3 designs. She is aware of what the Commission is looking for. Ms. Ketcham moved to not accept the application as submitted. Ms. Richter seconded the motion. Mr. Beardmore stated that he felt the colors were compatible and, accept- able. Ms. Carpenter concurred with Mr. Beardmore. Mr. Beardmore also suggested to the applicants that they should use someone who can do quality lettering since the Commission got burned one time before because of bad quality lettering. Notion to not approve passed 7-0. APPRWAL OF FEBRUARY 4, 1987 MINUTES The minutes were approved with the following editions: Page 12 - next to the last paragraph should say "Mr. Beardmore" instead of "Mr. Beard". Page 13 - sixth paragraph should say "Mr. Beardmore offered the use of his van camera." Page 13 - eighth paragraph should read "Ms. Ketcham noted there were no dimensions for the lettering." LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meetin0 • Mr. Sundberg stated that this was resolved at their worksession. The Com- mission directed Ms. Kleckner and extended the submittal time line to allow her to do this so this problem won't arise again. But Mr. Ehler's point is well taken. Motion passed 7-0. PIED PIPER DELI Jeff Newton and Bruce Newton, applicants, were present at this time. Mr. Sundberg stated the Commission had a problem with the placement and size of the signage. He referred to Guideline 52 which states that the sign should be subordinate in size to the other facade elements. Jeff Newton replied that the sign is smaller than the maximum allowed by the City code and questioned the Commission on how much smaller they would prefer the sign. Mr. Sundberg stated that the sign should be on conformity with the other signage on the adjoining buildings. Jeff Newton compared the lettering of the liquor store signage to the east of O'Hair's and O'Hair's signage to what he is proposing. He stated they need to know the maximum area to be subordinate to the storefront. Ms. Richter stated that if the lettering were closer together it would not be so overpowering as when spread out. Jeff Newton stated that if the Commission is going to say subordinate to the storefront it should be specified as to what the Guidelines say subordinate are. If the Commission says subordinate to the building, then the whole building includes Comedy Works, O'Hair's and Pied Piper Deli, and Pied Piper Deli would be subordinate to the building. This design is their logo. Mr. Sundberg then read Guideline 52 referring to the sign not overpowering the image of the facade as a single conposition, and therefore, the signs should be a part of the facade, not cover it and a smaller sign should be used as permitted by the Sign Code. He added that if they were proposing a linear sign, chances would be better for approval. Right now it overpow- ers the glass. Jeff Newton stated that if they were to use brass letters on the building, the would not show up. If they were to use back -lit lettering, it would be out of character with the area. So the only thing left to use is window lettering. Mr. Sundberg stated that the Commission needed a "to scale" submittal of their proposal. LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meetin� u if changed, must be brought before the Commission. Carol seconded the motion. Dick explained that his thought behind this motion is to create sane flexibility later on without setting a large precedent in approving anodized where it isn't already existing. It treats the building as best as possible as a whole and calls attention to say it is Black's Glass. This is the system that is set and this is their storefront and the rest is the Housing Authority. Ms. Carpenter asked that if it is changed in the future, can the storefront be painted. Mr. Beardmore replied that with the right application, the right acid etch- ing, the right primer, it can be done. Mr. Sundberg amended the motion by saying it should read "...to approve the clear anodized aluminum for the 2 storefront windows and everything else is to remain the same." Mr. Beardmore stated that his motion was trying to cane to the solution that the building is treated as one. Ms. Carpenter stated she had problems with that motion because it matters to her if the rest of the windows matched. Mr. Beardmore asked if it would be acceptable to change out the storefront as proposed in clear anodized on the first floor; to change out windows 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7, to match the Housing Authority and paint them white; paint the one door on Linden Street white and paint the 2 doors and over- head door on Jefferson Street white to match the color of the upstairs win- dows. Mr. Dean replied yes if he could give it the appearance of being the same as upstairs and changing 1,2,3,4 and 5 to sliders with 2 smaller windows having obscured glass and being sliders. Mr. Beardmore rejected Wayne's amendment to his motion because the appli- cant agreed to his intention of the motion. Mr. Sundberg stated that the motion was no different than what was proposed but suggested the applicant submit a revised proposal. Ms. Carpenter stated that in voting in favor of the motion she doesn't want it to be viewed as a precedent for clear anodized aluminum in Old Town. This is just a special case. Mr. Ehler thanked the applicant for his patience and perseverance. He felt this motion is a good solution but he is frustrated with the Commission that they let themselves get put on the spot time after time when they act as a design committee. This is not their purpose. An application was sub- mitted and the Commission rewrote the application. The Commission needs to explore ways so this will not happen again. -7- LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meeti� Mr. Dean replied that if someone drives through it, the parts are obsolete. He added that it is an antique system with metal against glass. The new systems have neo-grain vinyl between the glass. Mr. Beardmore asked what color is proposed for painting the existing fea- ture. Ms. Kleckner replied that it is to paint the wood door on Linden to match the storefront, paint 2 doors and overhead on Jefferson Street to paint storefront all on the first floor. Mr. Beardmore asked the applicant if it would be acceptable, as an alterna- tive, to keep everything an off-white and install a new storefront system and not change out the windows to a clear anodized? This way they would relate to the second story windows and a new system would solve a mainte- nance problem. Mr. Dean replied that he had no problem with that except the bathroom and office windows. Ms. Richter asked if he would consider replacing all the windows and paint- ing them white except the 2 storefront windows which is the big problem right now. Mr. Dean replied yes, he would leave them white as they are now. He said he could take a 2 X 4, paint it white and install in front of the storefront to give the appearance that it is painted white. The Commission did not concur with this idea. David Herrera, Housing Authority, stated that they are already approved so there is no reason to meet with the Housing Authority if they are not going to do anything but facilitate occupants of the building. They are inter- ested in having canpatibility with the first floor tenants. In as much as Mr. Dean was prepared to change out windows on Jefferson Street, the only issue is whether the storefront system is acceptable having reduced all the other aluminum on Jefferson. Is this storefront system of clear aluminum acceptable to the Commission? He also asked that if the Housing Authority were to make an offer to paint the entire building at their expense, would the anodized bare aluminum be acceptable? Mr. Sundberg replied no because that would set a precedent and would be a problem with colors. He added that on the attachment to the application the "#3" needs to be "1 window" first floor on Linden Street. Ms. Ketcham asked about the future painting and the affect of the aluminum. She asked that if it were painted to be more compatible with the other buildings, would the aluminum bar remain silver and have to be painted. Mr. Beardmore moved that the clear anodized storefront be approve as sub- mitted. The remaining application, instead of clear anodized or silverdust, be changed to leaving it white but if changed down, it be painted white and ZZ LPC Minutes March 4, 1987 Meetir* Mr. Beardmore moved to approve the Housing Authority application with the exception that the windows be painted an off-white in lieu of silverdust, subsequent to submittal of a color chip. Carol seconded the motion. Mr. Kline presented the Commission with a color chip. Mr. Beardmore stated this building is encircled with contributing buildings and this building is the eyesore of the block and the color painting would have a tremendous affect on the appearance. It is questionable on how to improve the building given the fact that it is a white building now. The Commission will keep the option open if painting the building is further down the road. Mr. Dean stated he felt stymied and frustrated. He is trying to upgrade the building and code in appearance. The color was discussed at the last meet- ing but no one told him this color was no acceptable. Now they are approv- ing the Housing Authority and denying his application. He felt he was given no clear direction and nothing was done as far as his proposal went. The roundness was accepted and that is all. The Commission briefly discussed the minutes of the last_ meeting with Mr. Dean. Ms. Ketcham stated that the Board was stuck on aluminum on the large win- dows. Mr. Dean's problem is that if they are painted, they would require maintenance. But Mr. Beardmore had stated earlier that etching could be done so the paint would hold and not flake off. Ms. Tunner felt that she would like to see all the windows white -if pos- sible however, she was not sure if the aluminum storefront is going to be the answer to the problem. By voting for the aluminum storefront is not tying in the possibility of future painting especially if the building itself was painted. If faced with the choice of leaving it as is or chang- ing it to aluminum, she would prefer the change, but to white. The option would be there to paint afterwards if it doesn't fit in. Ms. Carpenter felt that this would set a precedent. Down the road it would make it difficult to hold to the guidelines. She did not want to see bare aluminum in Old Town. Ms. Richter questioned if maintenance would be that much of a problem. Mr. Sundberg called a point of order that the Commission needed to consider the motion at hand. Motion to approve passed 7-0. Mr. Ehler asked if the existing storefront system at 256 Linden is service- able or is there a problem with it. -5-