HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 07/21/2006MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
Regular Meeting
200 W. Mountain, Suite A
June 21, 2006
For Reference: Linda Knowlton, NRAB Chair -
223-9328
Ben Manvel, Council Liaison -
217-1932
John Stokes, Staff Liaison -
221-6263
Board Members Present
Linda Knowlton, Joann Thomas, Jerry Hart, Alan Apt, Ryan Siaychock, Nate Donovan
Board Members Absent
Glen Colton, Clint Skutchan, Rob Petterson,
Staff Present
Natural Resources Dent: John Stokes
Guests
Nicole Seltzer, Northern Colorado Water Conservatory District
Agenda Review
Linda would like to complete the discussion on having point people for various priority
items that were identified in the special meeting. Glen suggested people take a lead
position and bring to the board the relevant information.
Public Comments
None
Northern Colorado Water Conservatory District Background: Nicole Seltzer
The Northern Colorado Water Conservatory was created in 1937. The conservatory was
created in order to facilitate the construction of a trans -basin water diversion project. It
diverts water from the west slope of Colorado near Granby and Grand Lake. There's a
tunnel underneath Rocky Mountain National Park that brings that water to the Big
Thompson Basin and from there the water ends up in Horsetooth, Carter Lake, and
Boulder Reservoir. We are the fiscal agent that re -pays the federal government for the
construction costs of the original project. We supply the CBT system which in this area is
Horsetooth Reservoir, we supply about half of the city of Fort Collins water supply. And
the way that works is that every year Fort Collins pays us an assessment charge of about
$400,000 a year in order to help facilitate, operation and maintenance of that project. The
water assessment funds from our district boundaries go down Broomfield up North of
Fort Collins and follow the South Platte River to the east. Those assessment charges
make up 40% of our revenue and the other 60% is made up in property tax. One mille
Levi property tax on all real property within the district boundaries. The line item on your
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June 21, 2006
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property tax bill is from NCWCD in the amount from $11 to $15 and you help to pay for
about half of Fort Collins water supply through that. The conservancy district manage
and operate and maintain those facilities. We have a lot of contracts with the bureau of
reclamation on how we take care of the facilities. The seven power plants on the system
and those are operated by Western Area Power Administration. We're not involved in the
power process but in terms the water features we operate and maintain all those. Our
main headquarters are in Berthoud with about 100 employees there. The pumping facility
is on Lake Granby and we have about 30 employees there. Fort Collins is the forth largest
CVT unit in Boulder owning 6%.
Northern Integrated Supply Project presentation by Nicole Seltzer:
This is a regional project to be coordinated by the district. The goal is to provide about
40,000 of acre feet of new yield to 16 municipalities and water districts within our district
boundaries. The cost will be $407M.
• Knowlton: If one of the participants can't make their payments, taxpayers get
stuck with it?
• Seltzer: Taxpayers are paying for it anyway.
• Knowlton: Rate payers are committing to it, but what if they can't?
• Seltzer: The answer that I've always been given is that this is a highly marketable
resource. Once this project is built and filled up with water, it's not going to be
hard to sell your portion of it. New reservoir storage is at a premium; it's very
difficult to fill it. If there was a participant who defaulted on their loan I think it
would be very easy for them to sell it off to someone else.
• Knowlton: So this isn't regarded as a high -risk investment.
• Seltzer: No, the numbers look very feasible.
• Knowlton: Once you start diverting water, how long will it take to fill it? And if it
isn't full, does each participant still get its promised amount of water?
• Seltzer: To fill we estimate it will take about 3-5 years. It won't be completely full
all the time, but will be a great recreation site.
• Stokes: Do you ever worry about dust blowing off during a really dry year?
• Seltzer: It is a concern. That's probably one of those things that you fix as it
occurs.
• Stokes: My concern is if significant amounts of dust are blown off that becomes
an air quality issue and potentially a health issue.
• Seltzer: That's actually a really good question.
• Knowlton: That should be taken into account in your #6 here (referring to the
hand-out).
• Seltzer: I will take that back and ask.
• Stokes: One thought about the land that's being taken out of irrigated agriculture.
It seems like there should be a mitigation component as the water districts and
municipalities buy this water. Because that land just sits there and blows away.
Unless someone goes out there and does a CRP or what ever.
• Seltzer: Thorton was required to do that as part of the transfer.
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• Stokes: Another option would be that they would be required to conserve that
land and put a conservation easement on it when they sell it. It would probably go
back to agriculture then back to grazing and dry lands and it could be managed for
all kinds of values other than sub -divisions. It seems to me that when a new
project is being built, we should be thinking about every single mechanism we
can utilize to maximize environmental quality. If that's conserving farms and
ranches that we take the water, or wind power to power the system, what ever it
is, we should be trying to maximize the environmental quality. I don't get the
sense that's happening. That's not a criticism of you or the district, I just feel that
there's an opportunity that we aren't taking advantage of as we build these new
projects. I think you can achieve the construction of these projects as well as
keeping with environmental conservation.
• Seltzer: We are in the middle of permitting; we'd need to get a permit to do
anything. It puts you in an us -versus -them antagonistic situation in some way. I
would love to see that happening, but I see that happening once there is a permit
in place and we're actually doing design of the project.
• Hart: But where's the incentive to do that? It would have to be a part of the
permit.
• Stokes: That's the hard part.
• Apt: What implemented activities have been accomplished, such as the water
rights through Grey Mountain Reservoir, the south bound rights, have those been
completed?
• Seltzer: The south bound rights are completed. The Grey Mountain are currently
being negotiated with objectors which we think will be fine. The court date for
that is in August.
• Apt: Harden? Is that bad news?
• Seltzer: Do you guys know much about that? It's a long story.
• Apt: It's not happening though?
• Seltzer: Central Colorado Water Conservatory District owns 1/3 of that right
along with our 1/3 rights. Central has recently filed on a change case for their 1/3
of their water right to develop it. And we are opposing that; this is a long term 5
year water court case.
• Apt: Have the participating contracts been developed yet?
• Seltzer: They're yearly, you can't do multi -year contracts.
• Apt: Are the original participants still engaged?
• Seltzer: No, Greeley opted to go with Halligan Siemen. East Larimer County
Water is patterning with the county. Fort Collins and Loveland dropped out and
the Little Thompson Water District is building their own reservoir.
• Apt: Are the costs that were allocated to each of the participants still based on
their share of firm yield? Has each of the participants successfully paid their toll
costs for the years 2004/2005?
• Seltzter: Yes.
• Apt: Thanks.
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• Seltzer: Latimer County has developed their own comment system for the NEPA
process. They're a cooperating agency, and they also have to do the location for
the reservoir. The commissioners who have developed with Latimer County
planning some whole system of public comment and open houses and developing
commissioner comments based on open house feed -back which well then go to
the core. If you want to have a conversation with Rob about Latimer County
process and how Fort Collins can fit into that ... their environmental advisory
board and their agricultural board are going to consider comments and then give
them to the commissioner and role them up in a comprehensive comment process.
• Apt: You mentioned in terms of art?
• Seltzer: Location and Extent, that's their planning, review process, which is a
non -binding process.
• Hart: There was a federal law that passed to support the Northern Colorado Water
Conservatory District. Do you have any information on that?
• Seltzer: Yes, that was a title transfer of canal facility.
• Hart: I read the law but I didn't understand the meaning.
• Seltzer: We are going through this process where slowly some of the features of
the CDD (?) project are being titled over to us by the Bureau of Reclamation. I
think the Bureau of Reclamation would like to turn over more and more of these
projects to local entities. And we're actually currently working with them to also
turn over all the power plants to us. We're doing a business plan to see if it's
feasible or not. We would take over maintenance and operation of all the power
plants; that will be 2 years before we know for sure.
• Hart: Interesting, thanks.
Staychock discusses the draft he sent out. I'd like to get initial comments. The idea again
is as an agenda item we would have guest presentations both capital letters, that would be
a title of what the agenda item would be. The idea is that the agenda regular meetings
could facilitate these guest presentations that could include one, two or three people from
the outside to give these presentations and yet try to make it to where we can keep it very
organized within one hour to where people don't go off on tangents. The idea would be
that a guest presentation would be allotted 13 minutes. And within that 13 minutes they
are given their 13 minutes to give their presentation. They were called lectures because it
holds a certain definition. Clint and I spent a lot of time on the general rules and would
like some general feedback and questions as to what I thought was important. The idea
was basically a person's given 13 minutes, they give us their interpretation of a natural
resource policy issue and then we go for up to 15 minutes of questions and answer
session and then that's it. No one lecturer could have more than 20 minutes of
presentation. Within the 13 minutes of presenting no one's allowed to interrupt them; it's
like an actual public speaking event to where they're trying to persuade us in some
fashion. The other big comments are they have to be formally invited by staff or the
NRAB; send materials ahead of time such as topics of discussion. The parameters are we
invite them, it's a formal invitation and everyone receives the email. Once an invitee
returns the official correspondence they're considered a lecturer. Each lecturer is
expected to present an informative factual based presentation that helps us understand the
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issue better. No one guest presentation that could consist of one to several lecturers that's
presenting different issues can exceed past one hour, that's the limit. When there's more
than two lectures, the chair and vice chair decide how much time is allotted and who goes
first. NRAB reserve the right to stop a lecture from continuing if they abuse the process.
Basically if someone's up there giving a personal soap box opinion that's not appropriate.
It's there responsibility to make sure we have the necessary equipment. I couldn't think
of any thing else that would be important to include. Does anyone else have any other
ideas?
• Donovan: June 28 in Greeley, I don't know if the location's been set yet.
• Seltzer: Oh the CILT yeah. Laura's got cancelled.
• Donovan: Maybe there'd be a presentation by Brad Winn of the Northern
Colorado Water Conservancy District about the south back water well issue. The
Colorado of Leadership Institute for Leadership Training, I serve on the board and
we're putting together this training, educational discussion session.
• Knowlton: I have a comment and a question. I hate the word lecture.
• Staychock: Do you understand what it means?
• Knowlton: I do not want to come here and be lectured. I just have an aversion to
that and it's only under parameters that you use lecturer and in the beginning part
you talk about presenters and presentations. I'm willing to have a presentation, a
briefing, not a lecture. I just hate that term.
• Staychock: The idea was to learn things.
• Knowlton: Well we learn things all the time. What Nicole just gave us was not a
lecture. She just gave us a presentation. I object to that.
• Staychock: There was a method to my madness but it's a fatal flaw I can change.
• Knowlton: I just don't know what's wrong with presenter.
• Hart: What ever you call it, it doesn't change what we receive.
• Knowlton: Right, it's just the perception.
• Donovan: You want to be very explicit about the purpose of the these kinds of
sessions.
• Knowlton: My question then is, who would this apply to? Give me a specific
example.
• Staychock: We brought this up two months ago, almost this exact same issue. We
were taking about...
• Knowlton: What issue?
• Staychock: Tensions started rising ... we're not going to have this group in here
unless this group can talk and bring their point of view here. Well if that group's
going to come then I want my group to talk; and that's how this discussion came
about. And so I was asked to draft up these rules to have outside presenters such
as SWIG, or the citizen planners. This is for any group that is outside the realm,
whether from CSU, non-profit organization. We know these people have a certain
interpretation.
• Knowlton: When you say outside the realm, so Nicole is inside...
• Staychock: Outside the city of Fort Collins.
0 Knowlton: What about Nicole?
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• Staychock: We invited Nicole to be part of a guest presentation, two capital
letters, it's certain, and she would have been allowed the 13 minutes to give a
presentation, and then 15 minutes for question and answer.
• Donovan: Could she serve in the role of guest presentation from the outside as
well as an insider, like presumably she did tonight?
• Staychock: Tonight it was not considered a guest presentation. She gave us an
hour and a half, almost two hours.
• Donovan: I'm not worried about the time. I'm just worried about how you
characterize someone you would invite.
• Thomas: We had a meeting a couple of years ago where the board conservancies
here in the Sierra Club, that was the big commotion. Are you trying to set up that
this is a pro/con thing, that there's a for and against.
• Staychock: Exactly.
• Thomas: Well I like that except I think it would be hard. Nicole's presentation
was very cordial and real nice. I think it would have been a different atmosphere
if it had been anything other than that.
• Staychock: Absolutely. I'm not saying that every month we have one of these.
This is just the foundation for saying, okay, next month we want to have these
two or three different sides present because we don't understand why they're for
or against an issue. And then we provide them with this statement and say okay.
It's like an extended public involvement. You're going to be given these 13
minutes and we're going to open up the floor to you and you're allowed to present
for up to 13 minutes. After that we're going to ask you up to 15 minutes of
question and answer.
• Knowlton: So let me ask a question.
• Staychock: When you take public involvement, public speaking, at any academic
institution you're given guidelines on how to present to people. There's a three
minuter, 5 minuter, 8 minuter and 10. You have to have your act together if
you're given 13 minutes. It's a formal situation.
• Knowlton: So let's say tonight, since we're having this presentation from the
Northern District, that if somebody from SWIG said, well I want to be there
because I don't agree with them and I want to be there to be able to give another
view point. So then they would be subject to this where the district wouldn't have
been?
• Staychock: Whoever's involved within the guest presentation, they're specifically
invited by someone in the book, formally invited to participate within a guest
presentation as an agenda item.
• Knowlton: Well what if we said, to be fair, we have to invite somebody from
SWIG.
• Staychock: And that's the exact idea. We're saying, okay, we're going to invite
SWIG, and whoever's for it.
• Knowlton: But then we wouldn't have been able to get a good presentation from
Nicole.
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• Staychock: But that's a different agenda item. There's a different thing happening
there.
• Apt: If we do invite SWIG in, we give them an hour and a half. We just gave the
district an hour and a half, why would we give SWIG 13 minutes?
• Staychock: I don't know.
• Hart: To me, what this was, was a good hour of background and information for
me. I wasn't as up on the project as some of you folks involved in it. Maybe if
we're going to follow this kind of process when we're having pros and cons of the
issues, the first thing we have to do is get brought up to speed as a board about
what the whole concept is and then that's part one. Part 2 is what are the issues
and what are the pros and cons.
• Staychock: And that was the idea. That's why I was asked to draft this.
• Hart: I don't know if we can get someone like Nicole here twice.
• Staychock: Another concern that came up was what if city staff has a lot of
information on pertinent to the topics that are covered within the guest
presentation. Well then city staff gets another agenda item. The idea of this was to
open up and to understand different pros and cons. That was my task.
• Thomas: And there are a lot more issues about the risk part that she went into and
they weren't even touched on, like evaporation and how long it's going to take to
build and the guestimate is a long time.
• Staychock: And so this was in response to understanding the pros and cons from
people that... and basically formalize it make it serious and give them 13 minutes.
It's not a lot of time; but it's more than enough time to get your issues out if you
know how to give a presentation.
• Stokes: So Ryan this was designed specifically as I recall, for situations where we
were going to have pro/con.
• Staychock: That's right.
• Stokes: So, it's not intended to address all situations or all presentations. It's just
when we specifically set it up to have two or three parties to present different
view points and just like council they've got a process, you get your few minutes,
and it's just a formal process when you've got parties that may disagree with each
other coming in to make a presentation. I think that's a reasonably good way to
deal with that. I don't think it's a good way to get back ground like Jeri said.
• Staychock: No, this is not for every presentation that anyone gives us. This is
saying, hey, this sounds like an issue for a guest presentation, or what ever you
call, you can call it something else. But notice how I put Guest Presentation in
capital; it's a formal name whereas in one agenda item it would be called a Guest
Presentation including pro/con.
• Stokes: I would just articulate that. First of all I would call them guidelines and
not rules, that's always helpful. And the other thing I would make clear in the
preamble is that this is for those situations when we have parties of opposing view
points who want to come in and make presentations to us. It doesn't apply to all
presentations to the board, just those specific instances. So it's pretty limited.
0 Staychock: Yes, it's super limited.
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June 21, 2006
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• Stokes: It's only going to happen once or twice a year; it's no big deal.
• Staychock: That's right.
• Hart: Given that we just had the district in I would like to hear from SWIG.
• Stokes: We tried to get SWIG here and they just never got their act together. I
don't know what's going on; they're not really a group. It's just a really
interesting group of people.
• Apt: For my money right now, particularly given John's comment about the
inevitability of reservoirs, I'm sure there are different points of view on that.
• Stokes: Absolutely.
• Apt: But one of the positive things this board could do would be work with those
people who are involved with putting this proposal together to make sure that the
environmental benefits were maximized and the environmental costs were
minimal. I think that would be very effective root or action this board's taken.
How this board can go about doing that would be really key.
• Donovan: But our role is to advise the City Council so.
• Stokes: You could advise City Council of this issue. You can say we believe this
issue has an impact on the city of Fort Collins for the following reasons and this is
why and we have some information or advise we'd like to pass on to you. The
other thing you might want to do is hot sync the board with the environmental
advisory board of the county. I'm sure they're paying a lot of attention to this at
the county level. Maybe you want to establish some sort of communication and
see what's going on in their minds. I don't know what they're thinking. Does
anybody know anyone on that board right now?
Knowlton: Yes, I do. I will follow up and see.
Adjournment
The board adjourned the meeting at 9:00pm
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Submitted by John Stokes
Director, Natural Resources
Approved by the Board on:
0 C'k 1 � , 2006
Signed
John S Date
Director, Natural Resources