HomeMy WebLinkAboutLand Conservation And Stewardship Board - Minutes - 02/08/2006MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
LAND CONSERVATION & STEWARDSHIP BOARD
Regular Meeting
200 W. Mountain, Suite A
February 8, 2006
For Reference: Bill Bertsch, Chair - 491-7377
Mayor Doug Hutchinson - 416-2154
John Stokes, Staff Liaison - 221-6263
Board Members Present
Bill Bertschy, Michelle Brown, Greg Eckert, Paul Hudnut, Vicky McLane, Greg Snyder,
Linda Stanley, Karyl Ting, Michelle Grooms
Board Members Absent
None
Staff Present
Natural Resources Dent: John Stokes, Mark Sears, Terry Klahn, Karen Manci
Asst City Attorney.LCarrie Daggett
Guests
None
Agenda Review
No changes
Public Comments
No comments
Election of Officers
Chair
Greg Snyder made a motion to nominate Bill Bertschy as chair of the LCSB.
The motion was seconded by Linda Stanley.
Discussion
• Ting: I don't know if anyone else was as taken aback as I was by all of the attention
given to this board in the press. There seems to be some degree of concern about the
agenda of the board, and what direction it will take. Is that a real issue?
• Stokes: There are 32 boards and commissions. We haven't had a new one for a
while, that alone made it news worthy. There is a lot of interest in what we're doing.
Council is interested and keen on this new board. I believe the media picked up on
that energy and excitement.
• Bertschy: All of the boards can be political. We're all political appointees in a sense.
I think the Board's charter is pretty well spelled out in the ordinance that created it.
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February 8, 2006
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• Brown: They made it sound like there is a big conflict between us and the NRAB.
• Stokes: I'm grateful for the attention. I want to launch the visibility of the Natural
Areas Program, and for there to be transparency around what the program does.
• Bertschy: When I was on Council I appreciated the insight of the board. Council is
trying to deal with lots of issues at the same time. The boards spend real time getting
to the bottom of issues. I appreciated their comments. I might disagree with the
result of the discussion.
• Stanley: I don't think the chair reflects much on the entire board. On the Air Quality
board it was always who is willing to take it. The chair has to go to Council every 4
years and talk about the board. It's not a big deal. I'm in favor of Bill being chair. I
think he would do a good job.
• Bertschy: It's a one year term, you can always boot me out. I've had experience
chairing boards. I think I can do a good job, and I like it. I try to run an efficient
meeting, but I wont cut people off.
The motion passed unanimously.
Vice -Chair
Michelle Brown is interested in being Vice -chair.
Michelle Brown was unanimously approved as Vice -chair.
Approval of Bylaws
Bertschy reviewing the draft by-laws by Article.
Article 1:
ok as written
Article 2:
ok as written
Article 3:
ok as written
Article 4:
ok as written
Article 5:
Discussion
• Stanley: On the AQAB we had a problem with people giving advance notice, but
missing a lot of meetings. Council policy doesn't address absences with notice.
• Bertschy: That did come up a couple times last year. The chair wrote the board
liaison. Maybe we should make a recommendation.
• Stokes: If you will miss a meeting, please notify Terry and Bill.
• Hudnut: Does the board plan to meet during the summer?
• Stokes: Yes.
• Bertschy: Do we want to meet even if we don't have a quorum? Sometimes there's
business that needs to occur.
• Daggett: When you say you're having a meeting....
• Bertschy: We could have a meeting, but not conduct business.
• Snyder: There can be discussions, but no action.
• Stokes: It depends partly on the agenda.
• Hudnut: We can have by-laws that allow action by electronic measures.
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• Daggett: It's better to participate by phone. That's something Council has done on
occasion. There are a few parameters.
• Bertschy: I would hate to see that as an easy way out.
• Snyder: What about a special meeting?
• Bertschy: That's a good suggestion. I'd like to head that direction to start with. If
we've got a lack of a quorum and business needs to occur we'll call a special meeting.
• Snyder: By the way, I won't be here for the next meeting if it's the 2nd Wednesday.
• Stokes: Now that we have this new board, Council will expect this new board to make
recommendations on items that Council considers coming from this program. It's
important to have the board speak to issues we bring to Council. It's not required, but
its very helpful to have the board weigh in. If there's no recommendation, Council
may send it back, or ask why. They'd like the board to be engaged, and they like to
hear from the board.
• Tine: What constitutes "timely notice".
• Daggett: In accordance with the State laws regarding open meetings they must be
posted 24 hours in advance.
• Hudnut: In the by-laws our function is to advise, but in the resolution its to advise and
make recommendations. There's a gray area of what boards do and don't do. My
question is what is our role? Can this board make a recommendation to Council
without John's request?
• Daggett: Yes. The board isn't filtering its recommendations through John.
• Hudnut: Actual budget monies are designated for this purpose.
• Daggett: That's not actually too unique.
• Hudnut: I want to make sure I understand the indemnifications. If someone isn't
happy....
• Daggett: This board has no power to spend money, or appropriate money. There's
not very much room for someone to make that argument.
• Bertschy: I don't see any difference than in the role of the NRAB when they were
looking at natural areas issues.
• Daggett: It's the same function. They said to Council, "We've looked at this and this
is what we think". Council may ignore their advice, but it's a Council decision. It's
similar to any other board in the organization.
• Hudnut: I thought the initiative was aimed at setting up a slightly different structure
because of the way money was spent in the past.
• Stokes: When I brought the ordinance to Council they were concerned because they
thought they were creating a board with the power to spend money. Council approves
the budget and empowers us to spend money. I want to make sure people are clear.
This board is not quasi-judicial.
• Bertschy: Back to meeting day. Would the second Wednesday work for everyone?
• Stanley: I'm ok with it, or Thursday.
• Ting: I like Wednesday.
• Grooms: If I have a set schedule I can plan around it.
The Board will meet the 2nd Wednesday of each month at 6:00 p.m.
Article X Correct the numbering
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• Bertschy: Our meetings are open to the public. Do you anticipate executive sessions
around real estate transactions?
• Stokes: Yes. At the next meeting we'll have advice on executive sessions. There is
also training at the B&C training.
Article XII Correct the numbering
• Bertschy: This is something that when the time comes we can use other models.
Every board pretty much did their own thing. I thought the best were a good analysis
of what they did that year, not just a numeric list.
Stokes: I can help you get a first draft of a work plan.
Bertschy: Is that ok with the board?
Linda Stanley made the following motion:
Move that we approve the by-laws as amended.
The motion was seconded by Michelle Grooms and carried unanimously.
Bobcat Ridge Update
Karen Manci, Senior Environmental Planner, provided a power point presentation
reviewing the current and future projects planned for Bobcat Ridge Natural Area.
• Bertschy: Are there any issues with the Forest Service? Is there any interest in
exchanging land?
• Manci: We have a good relationship.
• Brown: Is the only access that one parking lot?
• Manci: If the neighbors at Eden Valley would like access, we'll provide that.
• Stokes: The single point of access is the parking lot.
• Ting: Is the City responsible for the exclusion out of the water district? Whose
responsibility is it to exclude the water district?
• Sears: Together, we'll do everything we can to keep people out.
• Stokes: Everything from the ditch to the east will be closed to trail access. One of the
reasons for a full time ranger onsite is to pay attention to that. We'll do guided tours,
but there will be no general open public access.
• Hudnut: At the last meeting you mentioned ten miles of trail. When you build the
upper loop how much trail will there be?
• Manci: The valley loop is 4.5 miles. The section we're working on now will add
another nine miles. It will be more like 15 miles.
• Hudnut: Open use?
• Manci: The north trail will be open to horses and hikers. The south trail will be open
to bikes, horses and hikers. The valley loop is also open to all three.
• Snyder: So the use is restricted to foot, horseback or biking?
• Stokes: No motorized vehicles.
• Stokes: When we bought the property we did tours. Everyone was interviewed and
asked the question, "Would you like to see trail uses separated?" Most of the people
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were open to bikes, they did want a chunk of trail that bikes can't go on. One that is
open to people walking.
• Hudnut: I understand politically. But, all of the data is that bikes do less damage than
horses. In terms of using a park, if you want to encourage usage, it's nice to allow
people a loop.
• Stokes: We have had extensive discussions, open the north side to all use, go through
the middle of the property, or build another trail. We'll talk about the approach and
how it will work. If we have a lot of demand for a loop we can consider it. It's not so
much about the wear and tear, it's more related to the experience of the user.
• Hudnt: They're closing down other trails. There is an absence of data showing trail
conflicts in this area. When surveys are done it's a non -issue. A few people have had
bad experiences, but it's not a real problem.
• Stanley: I'd like to see those surveys.
• Bertschy: That's a good topic for a future meeting; management issues.
• Ting: Day use only?
• Manci: We'll look at overnight use in the future.
• Ting: Does the Forest Service allow overnight use?
• Stokes: We will allow camping. It will be permitted back country. We've discussed
hunting. Once we provide sites people will use them. At Lory they kind of move
them around, disperse the impacts.
• Ting: What is the size of the in -holdings?
• Stokes: We'll be able to use Forest Service land to build our trails.
• Ting: We need to address access from Forest Service lands, hunting will be a big
issue.
• Sears: We're in the process of changing the regulations to allow people to hunt with
permits. We're not set up at Bobcat right now. It's unlawful to carry a weapon across
properties. And, they're not allowed to park in our lot overnight without a permit.
• Manci: We'll have to work out those issues and we'll work through the easement with
the Forest Service.
• Stanley: Will people use that little power line road an as informal trail?
• Stokes: It's gated and signed. We could use it as a loop, open to bikes using the
southern loop on that road. One idea we talked about was opening it exclusively to
mountain bikers. Some sections are very steep and its very rugged terrain. It's not
built to a trail standard.
• Eckert: What is the "Art in Public Places"?
• Manci: You have to hire an artist. He helps with design and fabricates an art piece.
• Bertschy: Do we have a policy on historic preservation in natural areas?
• Sears: We work the City's folks in historical preservation. They've reviewed and
made recommendations at Bobcat. We're pretty much adhering to their
recommendations.
• Stokes: This spring we'd like to get the board up to Bobcat. You'd get a better sense
of trail design and management issues.
• Stokes: If you want to look at the management plan its online. We'll bring back an
agenda item around our management plan at Bobcat. It sounds like there's some
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energy around this. Mark alluded to the fact that we're making some changes to our
General Management Guidelines. To do that we'll have to change City Code. It's on
consent and we have another reading in two weeks. The road improvements at
Bobcat will be expensive, but there's no way around it. We have to do them.
• Hudnut: Will you be adding parking pull -offs. It doesn't seem like twenty-five
spaces will be enough.
• Stokes: We can double that. We'll build 25 and see what happens. If there's a
problem we can add another 25.
• Hudnut: What about dogs?
• Stokes: It's a no dog site.
• Ting: Are you just now starting to interface with the Forest Service?
• Stokes: We've been talking to them for a couple years.
• Sears: The biggest issue right now is while we're doing the road improvements we
have to allow an alternate way out for the residents. We're scratching our heads to
come up with a relatively economical way to do that. It's about 1.5 miles.
• Stokes: The neighbors have been terrific.
• Brown: They're not worried about increased traffic?
• Stokes: It's that or a subdivision. Staff has done a terrific job of telling them what's
going on.
• Bertschy: What's the bottom line?
• Sears: $2.8 million. Half was budgeted last year, and the other half is budgeted for
this year. We have the money. A little over $1 million is on the road.
Land Conservation Project Review
John Stokes said this is a review of acquisitions over the last three year period that are
relevant to the 10-Year Plan, which began in 2004.
• McLane: Why does the City own conservation easements on County land?
• Stokes: GOCO requires that the recipient of dollars put into place a plan to convey the
conservation easement to a third party. We'll trade to meet the terms of the GOCO
grant. The Legacy Land Trust, a local non-profit holds conservation easements on
some of our property.
• McLane: Why does GOCO require that?
• Stokes: It puts a double lock on the property. That's across the board, everyone has
to do that.
• Stokes: We lease surface rights. We have a variety of other leases. The biggest is on
State Board land.
• Sears: We're buying Bobcat over five years. We lease the entire ranch.
• Stokes: Some leases are long term, some are short term.
• Stokes: We're out of balance. We know that. We've been working on a strategic plan
for the next two years, trying to get back into balance. We got out of balance because
of Soapstone and Bobcat.
• Grooms: Who assesses the land values?
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• Stokes: We have appraisals. Our main person in Real Estate is Wally Cameron. He
was the head of Boulder's real estate section.
• Brown: Are there problems with the owners if the appraiser works for the City of Fort
Collins?
• Stokes: It depends. We can hire an appraiser together, have two separate appraisers.
Whatever works. We've had really good relationships with people we've bought land
from. We've negotiated fair transactions, I feel good about that.
• Sears: Of course we try to get bargain sales. At Bobcat Ridge the family wanted to
conserve the land. They donated $.5 million off the purchase price. We're working
with them to have them donate toward the construction of the trails.
• Stokes: The State has strong tax credits toward conservation easements.
• Stanley: Any chance of those going away?
• Stokes: No. However, the federal govemment is promoting new standards for
appraisals and easements. There will be a lot more rigor around how you appraise
and what qualifies as a conservation system. Congress just passed new tax legislation
and maintains the deductions.
• Brown: It's great that you have relations with land owners. That will do a lot of good
toward the future of the program.
• Sears: I've been with the program for seven years. I don't know how long we've
worked on some of these deals. We have at least fifty people we're in constant
contact with.
• Eckert: Is there any more land around Gateway Park?
• Stokes: I don't know.
• Daggett: Up river Utilities owns some additional property.
• Hudnut: As we have new projects will you start showing that in a different color on
the form?
• Stokes: We'll let you know where we are as far as the 1/3 splits. The other thing
we're doing is creating a new land conservation data base. We'll fill out sheets on
every project. There will be a standard form and certain criteria.
• Stanley: What about knowing how much money is available?
• Stokes: What I should do is every time we talk about a land transaction remind you of
the budget for the year. This is really dynamic.
• Stanley: That's important in terms of trade-offs.
Real Estate Transaction
Stokes said that when we (Natural Areas Program) buy land we don't need to go to City
Council. However, when we are conveying property interest we have to get Council
approval.
We'll bring everything to you, but I thought you might wonder why some things weren't
going to Council.
The piece of property we're talking about tonight is related to the "Mountains to Plains"
project. Using maps, Stokes outlined the details of this proposed transaction.
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• Stokes: The more property we own and have interest in will help us solidify the
access. This was the access to the ranch. There's over a hundred year record of it
being a public road.
• Bertshcy: If we get that land and we do road improvements the more attractive it will
be to development.
• Sears: That's why we're trying to do deals before we do the road improvements.
• Stokes: $750 is very reasonable. The resale we project to be $400 an acre. This is
remote, short grass prairie. We'd seek the best price we could get, but we're putting
on some pretty heavy restrictions.
• Ting: GOCO requires us to place a conservation easement to a 3`d party.
• Stokes: We're asking for your recommendation to Council to let us go forward with
that. Larimer County is willing to accept the conservation easement from us. It's
exactly like what we did for the County. Part of Red Mountain Ranch will be sold to
a conservation buyer. We'll do the same thing here. When it's sold Larimer County
will convey it back to us.
• Bertschy: How are we assured the County would re -convey?
• Sears: They don't want it. It's a huge responsibility and there's nothing to be gained.
Legacy would charge us for holding that easement.
• Stokes: We hold an easement on 15000 they want back.
• Brown: Any possible buyers?
• Stokes: We have a few possible.
• Stokes: It's pretty over grazed. We're hoping to work with a conservation buyer to
put better practices on that piece of ground. When they re -directed the spring they
screwed up the hydrology of the wetlands.
• Stanley: You could make that a condition of the sale.
• Stokes: We'd like a cooperative venture. We can help them find money.
Michelle Brown made the following motion:
The Land Conservation and Stewardship Board recommends that City Council approve the
conveyance of the 640-acre Round Butte Ranch conservation easement to Larimer County
The motion was seconded by Karyl Ting.
• McLane: Is the only reason we're doing this because Council has to do an ordinance?
• Stokes: Not the only reason. I could go to council without your recommendation.
There is a distinction between land we buy and land we convey.
• Brown: Does it make Council feel better that other people have looked at it?
• Stokes: Yes. This is a relatively simple transaction. It should be on Council's consent
calendar.
• McLane: I want to reiterate that I'm concerned about balance. I'll vote in favor, but it
seems the opportunities keep coming in the regional setting while the community
separator is disappearing right before our eyes.
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• Eckert: Any concerns about the easement language?
• Stokes: No.
• Hudnut: There are concerns in the community about the regional purchases. We need
to look close around Fort Collins. This is a little bit out there as far as accessibility.
It's a relatively small amount of money, but those add up. The idea is we'll sell this.
I'll support it. Let's go with what we have and not continue to branch out.
• Ting: It's not by choice, but by opportunity.
• Stanley: I think it's great. When we did the County open space tax in 1995 we had no
idea there would be this success. I think it's great the City is taking the lead. Years
from now they'll look at this and say what a wonderful thing it is.
• Stokes: We get about $9 million a year. Three of those are from the County. That's
one of the reasons the County leans on us to do regional and community separator
projects. In my view, that's part of the justification for spending money on these
projects.
The motion carried unanimously.
New Business
• Lunch on the 16s' at Nix. We'll have some food and show you around. Please rsvp to
Ter y.
• Stokes: I pretty much have the agenda set for the next meeting. I will get with Bill to
finalize it.
Stokes explained a potential land deal with the State Land Board that could become
public soon.
• Brown: If any one of us gets contacted by the press, do we send them to John?
• Snyder: The critical thing is that if you convey anything you make sure they
understand its your personal opinion, and not the opinion of the board.
• Daggett: When you start having executive sessions you will need to keep very good
track of what information you get confidentially. Legally you're required to preserve
the confidentiality of the information you get in executive sessions.
• Brown: If we get calls from the media we should send them to Bill or John.
• Bertschy: If you're preparing speaking points, please send them to me.
• Stokes: This probably wont show up for a couple weeks.
• Hudnut: I've been on other boards I've never had them call.
• Stokes: This is potentially controversial enough they might seek out board members.
• Snyder: One question in the public land transactions is what impact is there on the
school district and the County? I would like to see a financial statement on the
impact to the school district and the county when converting from public to private.
• Bertschy: That's a good topic for a future meeting.
Bertschy: The County got a presentation on research CSU did where they surveyed the
public on acquisitions and sellers. Two of my friends said we should hear that
presentation.
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Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Submitted by Terry HIahn
Administrative Support Supervisor