HomeMy WebLinkAboutParks And Recreation Board - Minutes - 09/30/1998Call Meeting to Order: Meeting was called to order at 6:35 p.m. by President Marilyn Barnes.
Agenda Review: Staff added Ridgeview Neighborhood Park after Case Neighborhood Park on
the agenda.
Items of Note: Board Member Diane Thies called to say she would not be able to attend
tonight's meeting.
Citizen Participation: None
Approval of the Minutes: On a motion by Dean Hoag, seconded by Rebecca Chavez, the
minutes of the August 26, 1998 meeting were unanimously approved (7-0 ).
Case Neighborhood Park
Wally Piccone Park Planning Manager, attended tonight's meeting to present the final park
design for Case Neighborhood Park. Staff would like to proceed with the development process
and construction of the second phase of the park in the spring of 1999. He explained that the
park is located north of Fort Collins High School adjacent to Pinecone Circle and Red Mountain
Drive. It will serve Dakota Ridge, Stone Ridge, and Pinecone neighborhoods. There is a large
undeveloped area north of the park that is currently owned by CSU and it is know as Ridgen
Farms. This area may be developed in the next five ears. At that time, additional fees to develop
the third and final stage of the park would occur.
Wally explained that staff held two neighborhood open houses and a special meeting with
residents on San Luis Street to develop the park design. Three design alternatives were presented
and comments from the neighborhood were incorporated in the final design.
In 1994, the first phase of this park completed was an irrigation pond, turf, and a baseball field,
in conjunction with the construction of the new high school. The second phase of the park will
r----- 1� - _
Parks and Recreation Minutes
September 30, 1998
Page 2
and playground. The third and final stage which is planned for completion in five years will be
parking areas, multi -purpose court and some landscaping and a path through the park separating
the passive and programmed areas.
Lance Freeman said that this is the design we discussed at last month's meeting. Wally stated
that is correct, however, we have moved the path closer to the ballfield (farther away from the
homes on San Luis). The sidewalk changed and the playground moved closer to the shelter and
restroom. Dean Hoag asked where the parking is located? Wally responded that it is in the high
school parking lot. This is a neighborhood park, Marilyn Barnes added, and therefore should be
accessible by walking or bike riding.
Citizen Kim Schwinn asked if we have a plan that the students at Fort Collins High won't drive
through the mud. Construction will begin in the spring. She suggested removing the dirt from
the street. Mary Ness suggested concrete barriers like they have at Rocky Mountain High. Kim
further stated that the way Red Mountain Drive is designed is not safe for the kids. Wally noted
this to meet with the Streets Department and Police Services.
Citizen Sara Lamia commented that parents drive kids to events and they drive through the
barricades. She has talked to Police and they will not do anything about it. Poudre R-1 School
buses have been parked in the No Parking Area. Wally said he will work on parking issue on
Red Mountain and Pinecone Circle. Mary Ness asked if this neighborhood has asked a
neighborhood officer about this? He said that if this neighborhood group calls the Police
Department and asks who the officers are for their neighborhood and discusses this matter with
them, they will take action.
Citizen Janelle Rohrbaugh, who is a resident of San Louis Street, has a concern about Pinecone
and Vermont, and feels that the pedestrian activity will be dangerous. She said cars are parking
diagonally. She thinks this should be used as entrance to the park and move the parking lot
closer to Vermont Street, and don't focus pedestrian traffic at that corner. Wally said there will
be curbs all along this area. Jessica suggested painting the curbs so that no one parks there.
Sara Lamia (San Luis Street) asked if the entire area will be graded, seeded, and irrigated? Will it
be mowed on a regular basis? Wally replied that it will be mowed on a regular basis and the
weeds will be sprayed.
Citizen Doug Wisley (San Luis Street) distributed a petition. He said 13/14 residents oppose the
trail that will go through the park. He opposes it because it cuts close to their houses and the
security is an issue. The neighbors feel it is not necessary. They also feel the balls from the
softball games will endanger pedestrians on the trail and have concerns about the balls hitting
their houses. Lance Freeman said that if we don't build a designated path then there will be
several paths. Dean Hoag asked what the distance from the home plate to his house? Wally said
it is over 330 feet. Dean said those balls will not go into their yards from the ballfield. Rebecca
Chavez said the path is to separate the active and the passive area and to allow direction to the
playground from the other neighborhoods.
Parks and Recreation Minutes •
September 30, 1998
Page 3
John Rohrbaugh (San Luis) shared some pictures that he took. He pointed out cars parking on
both sides of Red Mountain Drive. An existing crosswalk to access the path will be dangerous.
He presented the list of 13 families who don't want the trail. He pointed out that green area
behind the houses on San Luis. The path will deter from the green passive area. There isn't
enough green area if the path is constructed. Marilyn Barnes asked if it meets the guidelines for
handicapped accessibility? John said there will be risks with the path. From his house, there is
only 100 feet to the path. Del Price asked if the only reason he didn't want the trail was because
of the proximity to his house? Marilyn reminded him that the park will serve all the people in a
one square mile. Is he concerned that vagrants will be in his back yard? Dean asked if he doesn't
think that path would service the neighborhood. Marilyn said that it separates the passive and
active use in the park. Jessica suggested that the trail not be constructed at this time. Wally said
this is planned in Phase III, and that will be constructed in three to five years. Jessica said wait
and see where the natural paths follow and she thinks it makes more sense to move it along the
lot lines. Suggestion was that we bring this back to the Board in the next phase.
Sandy Godbey (San Luis Street) said she was told in 1996 that as soon as Dakota Ridge and Sun
Stone were constructed that our neighborhood park would be completed. Marilyn responded that
the concept of the neighborhood is one square mile. Had there been more dense building in this
area, we could have built the park at one time. We have only collected fees from the areas that
have been built. Marilyn further explained that we are running short of funding with all the
amenities we need to build in these neighborhood parks.
Citizen commented that the Board should adopt a policy to better communication between the
neighborhood and the staff. Mary said if you drive around the city and see what we have in park
construction and realize that we have four staff members in Park Planning, you'd realize what a
good job they are performing.
Mike Powers said he would never build a neighborhood park in phases again. The square mile in
Ridgeview has homes in the county and they have not paid neighborhood parkland fees. The
neighborhood came to us and said we want a park and we will help the City build in phases. We
gave something on both of these parks. We don't know when these neighborhoods will build
out. When a citizen calls and asks us to estimate when a park will be built, we are truly
estimating these dates. We are giving more in these two neighborhoods (Case Park and
Ridgeview Park) sooner than we should.
John Rohrbaugh said if we are debating the necessity of the trail, we need to remove it from the
plan. Paul Van Valkenburg said we need some form of delineation to determine passive and
active use.
Marilyn Barnes, in closing, said she would be concerned about the traffic and the neighbors
should contact the police. Jerry questions the design of the parking lot and wants to eliminate the
path on the side of the park where the parking lot is. He said kids will be racing their bikes
through the park to the Country Store. Marilyn said that parents will have to educate their kids
on where to ride their bikes. Jerry asked about the flat swale through there and how much water
Parks and Recreation Minutes
September 30, 1998
Page 4
will be in there and how many mosquitoes will be collected in there. What about drainage? Matt
responded that the lots drain towards the parks.
Jamie Gulden who lives on San Luis said that he is the only one who didn't vote to not have the
trail. He asked if it would be possible to have volleyball on the grass area? He would like to
comment that if we could put a flat volleyball area in this park, he would appreciate it.
Sara Lamia asked if this is a neighborhood park, then why is the majority of the usage not in our
neighborhood? Let's be real with the use. The reality is that it will be used for active park use
and organized sports. Wally said that is why we keep the 60/40 split use (60% active and 40%
passive). Jessica addressed this by saying we are short of fields in the city.
Sara said in addition to the playground, the adults and older children want a basketball court. It
will be used by many ages. Wally will look at the budget and try to fit it in. Several Board
members agreed that there should be a basketball court in the park.
Lance Freeman made a motion to approve Phase II and table Phase III and reopen the discussion
with the neighborhood regarding the trail; include in phase II the opportunity to build a
basketball court if budget allows according to specs. The motion was seconded by Del Price, and
passed unanimously (8-0).
Ridgeview Park
Wally Piccone gave a background on Ridgeview Neighborhood Park (Hinsdale Drive and south
of Harmony Road. The 10.3 acre park site was purchased in 1991, along with the Poudre School
District when they constructed McGraw Elementary School. Phase I was the construction of an
irrigation system and the soccer fields east of the school. Phase II was the construction of the
ballfield, and Phase III is under construction at this time. This final phase will be the
construction of four acres of undeveloped parkland north of the school. This site is intended
largely for passive uses. This plan includes a junior soccer field, restroom facility, picnic shelter,
a playground, and a passive open area.
Citizen Russ McCann said that all the outside activities the school conducted was in this open
area. The original concept was schools and parks together.
Carl Cicero, President of the Homeowners Association, has been the identified spokesperson for
the neighborhood. He has been working with staff for over 7 years. They were disappointed that
this construction started the day before school started. There was a t-ball area there that was tom
up and we met with Wally and the soccer coach and tried to get this resolved. We understand the
60/40 concept. We would like to have this berm along Hinsdale moved back. If we could pull
this berm back we could have more active area for the kids in the neighborhood. Marilyn asked
if there is a reason that the 40 percent be made flat grass. Wally said we like to have it add to the
character of the park and it addresses the 40 percent passive. Paul asked if the school has its own
playground? We are looking at the esthetics and the character of the park. If it is in the flat area
is it the right way to do it? Will there be a balance in the park?
•
Parks and Recreation Minutes
September 30, 1998
Page 5
Ll
Wally said there is one soccer field in each neighborhood park. Russ McCann said he doesn't
have a clear vision of what has occurred. One soccer field had been designed behind the school.
He said the plan went forth without any communication between the School District and the
City. Marilyn said that the School District sold us the ground and used it until we were ready to
construct the park. Rebecca Chavez said for the past year we've asked the Poudre School District
to have a representative at our Board meetings and they don't. Lance asked how much more
space are they (the neighborhood) asking for? Raymond Geis said we are asking that the berm
be shaved down and have it more pleasing to the eye on Hinsdale Drive.
Wally said that changing the design of the park takes away from the perspectives of the park.
Mike Powers said that what we are hearing from are the parents of young kids in the
neighborhood. We are also hearing from all these people about excessive parking. If there is
potential for four soccer fields, there will be more traffic in your neighborhood. In the future we
will have a sports complex at this park and we won't have the money to retro-fit the park for the
older neighbors.
Russ said that during recess there's no place for the kids to play. Raymond said that the gym
had a grass area out the door by the gymnasium and now it doesn't. As a neighborhood we
would be happy to use it as passive space. Half the teams who used this area for soccer, can't
use it now.
Carl Cicero said that if we push that berm back too far, we will have a large soccer field and it
will be programmed. Del Price said that our contractor is out there constructing now, why are
we discussing this now? Jessica said the neighbors have an issue and that is why they are here
tonight. Russ McCann asked why they took away the grassed area and didn't notify the school.
When we planned Ridgeview Park, there were several public meetings according to Mr. Cicero.
Jessica asked if esthetically would the berm look alright if it was moved back. Mike suggested
that Carl and Wally work together to create a little more space. Raymond said that there are 50
to 100 soccer parents who would have shown up tonight to voice their opinion on the soccer
fields. If the berm is taken out it will solve the problem. Wally said then we will have created a
soccer complex and not a neighborhood park.
Janet Lettang, parent representative who is on the site improvement team for McGraw School
said her committee has a concern about parking. Last spring Hinsdale Drive was made no
parking. We cannot allow park parking in the school parking lot during school hours. There's
83 spaces; there's a path and no parking. Her proposal is to allow parking on the east side of
Hinsdale Drive. Is there going to be a parking area or a bike lane/path? Wally said we have
received calls from other neighbors. Matt said it is a safety issue of parents dropping off their
kids. After 3:45 they could park in the school parking lot. Carl said he is concerned about kids
walking between the parked cars. Matt said when parking is designed, there are spaces between
the areas. Del said the whole concept of a neighborhood park is that people use alternate means
of transportation to the park.
Parks and Recreation Minutes
September 30, 1998
Page 6
Mike Powers said there are three decision points. 1. Mike, Board, and Council. The most Mike
is willing to bend is to move the berm back, but wouldn't recommend that we create enough
room for another programmed area. If the concerned neighbors would like to go further, your
next step is to contact Chris Kneeland who is your City Council representative. Mike is not
recommending moving the berm totally out of the park.
Russ McCann said that it is for the children in the area. Mr. Cicero said he as a representative of
Clarendon Hills neighborhood and he will work with Wally and Mike.
Marilyn Barnes, speaking on behalf of the Board, feels that Carl Cicero should work with Matt
Day, Wally Piccone, and Mike Powers. The First and Third Tuesday of the month Council
meets. She suggested that neighbors call Chris Kneeland.
Raymond Geis said that this was a miscommunication with the neighbors and there is a very
serious lack of communication. Mr. Cicero said that he brought this up at several homeowners
association meetings.
Civic Center Park
Wally gave the Board an informational overview of the conceptual drawing of Civic Center Park
at the new Civic Center. He explained that the City will maintain the park. It will have a theatre
type feel to it with sidewalks surrounding the park, and a water feature. The maintenance
agreement will be half fees from Latimer County for the City to maintain. As plans progress, he
will continue to keep the Board informed.
Horticulture Center Update
Jim Clark distributed a cost comparison sheet for the Board. The Horticulture subcommittee has
been meeting every week. Del Price and Lance Freeman are Board representatives. There are
two sites available at this time. One is a CSU site and the other is Lee Martinez. Land in
CSURF is very expensive. The intent of this cost comparison is what will be left for the
landscape and gardens. For Lee Martinez Park there would be $879,404 remaining for landscape
and gardens. With the CSURF property there would be $302,155 remaining for landscape and
gardens. The CSURF costs assume 10 acres of land.
Jim gave the Board the following dates to note:
• October 15 open house for the horticulture center supporters.
• October 22, 4:30 to 6:30 at Lincoln Center Columbine Room open house. The purpose will
be for the public to view the graphics and for staff to try to get a sense of where people are on
the two sites.
• November 18 Parks and Recreation Board special meeting.
• December 8 City Council meeting.
Parks and Recreation Minute• •
September 30, 1998
Page 7
Outdoor Sports Facilities Guidelines
Jean Helburg and Marty Heffernan spoke on this item. Marty explained that the Parks and
Recreation Lead Team (PRLT) has been working several months to develop guidelines to better
manage the use of our outdoor sports facilities. Their discussion has been on the scheduling of
our parks to accommodate all the users. It becomes difficult for the recreation staff to program.
It is an ongoing problem and with the School District's fencing of their sports areas. These
guidelines state Parks are #1 for recreational use before competitive use. The fundamental
principle is to support all users. In developing these guidelines we tried to get a sense of what
capacity is for each park. When we schedule, we don't want to over use the parks. Jean said
that we struggled with what to do with adult versus youth activities. When the School District
developed their priority list, they put adult programs at the low end of the priority list. In
developing our guidelines, we felt City programs should have first priority; Youth second,
Adults third priority, then Competitive Youth, followed by Competitive Adults.
Marilyn asked what are we going to do with the schools fencing the fields? Marty said that
school teams want to use our facilities first as they are groomed and we are working on the
fencing. Rebecca questioned if we have written agreements? Jean said that we have
intergovernmental agreements.
Jean further explained the traditional sports seasons. The college has seasons that are different
from the summer sports season. There are some sports that are expanded to the point of
overflowing into other non-traditional seasons. Soccer has both spring and fall seasons.
Tonight's discussion is informational for the Board and when we get to the implementation
stage, you might hear from some user groups. Dean asked how we categorized the youth
baseball. Jean said non-commercial competitive group when they begin to cut is when they are
classified as competitive. He asked how Buckaroos competitive softball weekend tournament in
the summer will be scheduled. Jean said this would only be a problem if we couldn't schedule.
The Board agreed that this was clear and concise and well written. Marilyn added that none of
the private schools have recreational facilities. Lance added that the City needs to maintain the
ability to close facilities for maintenance when needed. Del asked at what point do you say we
are closing this field? We need to spell this out in the plan. Marty said there is some of that in
this guideline. Paul said that if some parks are designed for adult use then use them and leave the
others to the kids.
Paul asked if certain group always had a specific weekend, and those tournaments are traditional,
would they be bumped? Jean said in some cases they would. However, there will be good
dialogue and staff would work with the group and negotiate and accommodate those uses.
Parks and Recreation Minutes
September 30, 1998
Page 8
Election of Officers
On a motion by Rebecca Chavez, seconded by Dean Hoag, the Board unanimously elected
Lance Freeman President
Jessica MacMillan, Vice President
Paul Van Valkenburg, Board Secretary.
Lance suggested that Board members get more involved in the subcommittees as he feels it has
broadened his horizons by being involved in the Horticulture Subcommittee.
Other Business
Question was asked about the section of trail east of Welch Street and South Lemay? Mike
Powers responded that Stormwater is in the process of completing their improvements and
then we will be able to complete the trail work.
• Lance said he was at Lee Martinez Park and noticed a new culvert that is dumping water on
the east side of the woodland slough. Staff will check on this.
Mike Powers said that Marilyn Barnes, Del Price, and Mike had a meeting with the Natural
Resources staff and Board President. It was determined that when we foresee an issue or
possible conflict, we will form a subcommittee of the two Boards. The Natural Areas plan is
being reviewed and Del Price will be the member from our Board to review the plan, along
with Marilyn Barnes. Lance Freeman volunteered to help on that subcommittee also.
Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
J ie Rael
xecutive Administrative Assistant
Parks and Recreation Minutes •
September 30, 1998
Page 9
Meeting Attendance
Board Members Staff Guests
Marilyn Barnes
Rebecca Chavez
Lance Freeman
Dean Hoag
Jessica MacMillan
Mary Ness
Paul VanValkenburg
Matt Day
Marty Heffernan
Jean Helburg
Wally Piccone
Mike Powers
Jackie Rael
Jeff Walker
Jim Webster
Doug Wisely
Marianne Wisely
Paula Hadley
Sandi Godbey
Jerry Godbey
Randy Schwindt
Kim Schwindt
John Rohrbaugh
Janelle Rohrbaugh
Jamie Gulden
Carl Cicero
Janet Lettang
Raymond Geis
Sara Lamia
Ann Stevenson
Russ McCann