HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 01/18/1995CITY OF FORT COLLINS
CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES
GOLF BOARD
CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bob McCluskey, Jr.
STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Assistant to the
Director/CLRS; and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Secretary.
MINUTES: Regular Meeting of January 18, 1995
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Board President
Henry Fry. Armon Johannsen had called to say he would be unable to
attend tonight's meeting.
AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
It was moved by Tom DeGrand and seconded by Cindy Roper that the
minutes of the regular meeting of the Golf Board of November 16,
1994 be approved as submitted. The motion was approved (8:0).
CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation.
DISCUSSION: JUNIOR GOLF ISSUES
Henry Fry commented that Junior Golf is a thorny issue. We want to
introduce kids to the game of golf and we need to find out how to
accomplish this. Our three golf pros are in attendance to share
Junior Golfer programs offered through their pro shop.
Jim Greer started by saying that Junior Golf at City Park Nine is
more like a Junior instruction program. The PGA is always
encouraging the promotion of Junior Golf as a number one priority.
The average rate for lessons is $25 and Jim offers a 601 discount
to Junior Golfers. Juniors are told that anytime they need help
our services will be offered at no charge. Jim also instructs any
assistants that he hires to promote Junior Golf. It was further
noted that greens fees are waived for the Junior PGA golf
tournament, and there is also a city-wide Junior tournament that is
held at all three courses where greens fees are significantly
reduced. Around 65 kids participated in the most recent
tournament. In addition, Jim always hires kids to pick up balls on
the driving range. For most kids it was their first job and their
first pay check. His major contribution is spending time and
talking with Junior Golfers when they come out to the course.
Derek Cordova stated that Jim brought up some good points, and
reflected that he and Kathy Hodge are products of Jim's efforts.
The SouthRidge audience is a little different and different things
are offered. Derek feels the most important thing he can do is be
active in the Junior program in the city. A list of the Junior
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January 18, 1995
Page 2
programs offered at SouthRidge was distributed to each Board
member. Kathy Hodge offers some programs just for girls, and this
year some parent/child clinics are planned to work on the basics of
golf. SouthRidge also offers beginning/intermediate sessions,
Junior camps, and a professional will play 9 holes with the kids;
try to make sure every kid receives something. SouthRidge is the
first course to set up Junior tees. In 1995 a discount will be
offered to Juniors for range balls, and June through August we will
offer Junior range days where they can hit range balls for half
price. David Shands asked if these programs are offered in other
cities or do we offer more? Derek responded that the Junior Golf
programs in Fort Collins are pretty aggressive. Frank Blanco
observed that a good Junior program will show up when the kids get
to high school; and it definitely shows in the championship Fort
Collins high school teams. Mindy Markley has researched Colorado
and other states, and found that Fort Collins offers a lot better
programs than other areas. Junior Golf was also discussed with
people here in town and the feeling is that our pros do a very good
job in offering Junior programs.
Joe Nance distributed a summary of programs offered at Collindale
for Junior Golfers. The two other pros mentioned a lot of ideas
that Joe tries. Instruction is very important at Collindale. When
Joe first started at Collindale there was around 60 Junior Golfers
and this figure has increased to approximately 300 Juniors
participating during the season. Joe offers golf lessons in a
series, with golfers grouped first by age or ability. Maximum
group size is set at an 8-1 ratio. We are trying a competitive
format for Northern Colorado Junior Golf. Collindale, as well as
SouthRidge, has a team. Junior Golfers qualify and then travel to
other courses for competitive play. A substantial discount is
offered to Juniors for private lessons. In addition, Joe works
with GK Gymnastics as they have a pretty strong program for
youngsters in the summer. Younger age groups are also accommodated
by having different day care participants bringing kids to the
course for a day to expose these kids to golf. Supervisors come
from the day care facility. The Colorado State Golf Association is
quick to recognize Fort Collins as being very supportive of Junior
Golf and appreciate the level of participation in this area.
Collindale works with high school and Junior high teams providing
tee times and qualification times for teams and coaches, and we try
to accommodate regional tournaments.
It was stated that all three of the golf pros are independent
contractors and not employees of the City of Fort Collins. Each of
these individuals provide different Junior programs depending on
their course and the facilities available. The pro is allowed
leeway in providing programs suitable for their course. In
addition the 50% discount for Junior passes was kept in setting
1995 annual pass fees. The City also does not turn away kids for
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January 18, 1995
Page 3
lack of money. Several local businesses have paid the fees for
kids with no money. The three pros we have are very supportive of
Junior Golf in Fort Collins. Part of reason for this presentation
tonight is to make people aware of all the things that are
currently being offered for Junior Golfers.
Cindy Roper commented that she had no idea of the different Junior
programs being offered. Maybe the only thing that needs to be done
is to make what is offered a little more known. She was further
surprised that there wasn't near as many programs offered outside
the Fort Collins area and number of programs our golf pros offer
compared to other areas. Henry Fry observed that it appears that
we do a real good job for any Junior who expresses an interest in
golf. Jerry said the important point made was our lack of
publicity, and historically we have relied on the pros to take
information to the press. Parks and Recreation has a publicity
person who we will recruit to write press releases on the programs
being offered. We also might consider purchasing advertising on
our Junior programs and what is offered by the pros. Tom White
asked if the courses were at capacity with the number of rounds
played? Jim Greer stated City Park Nine could handle more, Joe
Nance and Derek Cordova stated they are fairly busy, but they could
accommodate more rounds.
Henry asked Mindy if anyone had a handle on a outreach program to
disadvantaged kids, those not thinking of golf as a sport they
might want to try? Mindy replied that a lot of people she called
were surprised by her question. Apparently Pueblo has the best
outreach program in the state. Jim asked if any of the places
Mindy checked had days or times set aside specifically for Junior
Golf? Henry likes the fact that Juniors can book any time, any day
at the Fort Collins courses. Jerry added that most outreach
programs are in larger metro cities such as Chicago, Cincinnati,
etc. In those cities there is more involvement by private
business, transportation is provided to the courses, kids are
recruited in the lower income parts of town, taught the game at a
local center, then tee times were set (usually off hours), the kids
were transported to the course, pros and staff provide lessons
(paid by business), and clubs were available.
Henry asked if we, as the Golf Board, are doing all we can to
encourage Junior Golf in Fort Collins? Cindy was not sure about an
answer to that question; but getting the word out to kids on what
is available is a big part of that process. One thing that came to
mind is getting into grade schools and junior highs to speak about
golf and what is available. Also presentations at youth programs
would help. Tom DeGrand wondered that since the PGA is always
stressing Junior Golf, do they have suggested programs we could try
i.e. outreach? Henry wondered if our current system has enough
opportunities to cut a deal if a group of kids showed an interest
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January 18, 1995
Page 4
in golf? It was responded that there is quite a bid of interest on
behalf of the City to encourage youth activities. The hardest part
would be the transportation to and from the courses. From Jerry's
perspective, the Golf Fund is very interested in encouraging Junior
Golf in Fort Collins through the fee structure.
Citizen Stan Vyvial stated he was totally unaware of the Junior
programs in Fort Collins as he has never seen anything promoting
youth golf in this area. Jerry said that there have been a lot of
news articles, and in addition, a column on golf is run every
Saturday morning. Henry added that if kids are interested in a
program, they tend to find what is available. Also kids usually
get involved in Junior programs if there is previous interest in
the household in respective sports. Jim feels the best way to get
people to play golf is by encouraging play in tournaments: more
tournaments = more play = being competitive. Henry added that when
talking about encouragement of Junior Golf we can teach them and
offer discounts, but when it comes to actually playing the game,
someone has to pay.
Tom White suggested that rather than giving a speech, we could
place flyers in the schools, with a paragraph or two of
information. Stan added that principals at the schools would be
happy to give space. Henry suggested this may be an area we can
get help from the Parks and Recreation publicity person. Jerry
added that the department publishes a handbook that goes to the
schools. The principals are made aware of the handbook and the
physical education coaches encourage kids to look at golf. It was
also suggested that the golf section in the Recreator be expanded.
Mary Hodge observed that through the years if a Junior Golfer
showed a great interest, the pros tried to supply a job for them so
that they could pay for their golf games. She further feels the
Golf Board is providing ample programs to encourage Junior Golf.
Since Mary is one of the physical education instructors who is
inundated by information, her advice is to keep it plain and clear,
and promote it every spring. Mindy commented that Junior Golf in
Fort Collins is pretty cheap at $5.00 for 9-holes in non -prime
time. A person can't go to the movies for less, and golf is cost
effective in comparison to other types of recreation.
Henry's observation, after listening to tonight's discussion, is
that we offer quite a few enhancements for Junior Golf including a
reduction in fees and the knowledge that groups can receive further
discounts. We may be just a little under publicized. Mary would
be happy to sit down and figure out a flyer that can be
distributed, and stated this brochure should be relative to what is
available in the full city. Spring is the best time to publicize.
Joe stated that Collindale printed a tri-fold brochure which they
mail out when someone calls requesting general information. This
flyer could possibly be changed a little to represent all three
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January 18, 1995
Page 5
courses. Henry doesn't believe we can create the desire, but we
can supply the information. Jerry would like the three golf pros
to meet with the Recreation department's public relations staff to
develop a program.
With the idea in mind of tournaments, Henry wondered if we could
have a Colorado Junior Tournament (possibly two age groups) every
year in Fort Collins? Jerry felt this was a good idea, but it
depends on revenue and cash flow. We say yes far more than we say
no, and in recent years we have gone overboard. If the golf pro
builds the tournament from the ground up, it takes a lot of time.
The pros time is best used for assistance and advise on how to put
a tournament together. Jim Greer commented that he had a good
response on the $5 rate: a lot of parents brought their kids, a lot
of kids came down on their own. Stan Vyvial relayed that the only
thing kids say at the Youth Advisory Board meetings is "there's
nothing to do in this town." We need to reach the kids that feel
this way. The consensus of the Golf Board is we can get the word
out, but we can't force someone to become interested in golf. This
could be accomplished by a little more publicity on what is
available for Junior Golfers in Fort Collins.
RESOLUTION REGARDING AGREEMENTS WITH GOLF PROFESSIONALS
Jerry did not get anything in writing to Board members on this item
as discussed at the November meeting. It was originally thought
bidding all three golf pro contracts at the same time would save a
lot of work, so all three contracts are scheduled to expire
December 31, 1995. It is now felt that a separation of the bid
process for these three contracts would be better. The City
Council does not have to approve this plan; however, what is being
proposed does need a resolution by City Council because Derek
Cordova's annual payment goes over $50,000 per year, and City Code
states anything over $50,000 has to have City Council approval.
There is agreement to the proposed plan by the City Purchasing
Agent, the Interim City Manager, and the City Attorney feel this
proposal is acceptable within the purchasing codes. Diane Jones
would like to schedule presentation and discussion of this plan at
the March 7 Council meeting. The next step is sending a message to
City Council asking for their questions and concerns that can be
addressed before the Council meeting. Documents will be delivered
to the Golf Board before this is presented to City Council.
Next, we need to decide which of the two contracts will be
extended? Jerry needs to make a decision and really wants Golf
Board input and advice. Staff has a strong preference for wanting
to bid City Park Nine in 1995 as there have been two addendums to
the existing contract which added janitorial services and the snack
bar/liquor sales. Purchasing feels we need to have one package
which states all the changes. Tom White commented that it appears
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January 18, 1995
Page 6
for once the Golf Board is not faced with a problem. Jerry would
like to have the Board's approval that the golf pro contracts would
be bid as follows: City Park Nine in 1995; Collindale in 1996 and
SouthRidge in 1997. Henry wanted to be sure it was clear in the
contracts that the City reserves the right to retain, or negotiate
retention of the golf pro. Cindy questioned when this process
would start. Jerry added if the proposal is approved in March,
specifications could be put together by June; bids received in
August; and awards could be made in September.
It was moved by Tom White that the Golf Board recommend approval of
the plan to offer a one year extension of the golf pro contract for
Collindale and extend the contract for the golf pro at SouthRidge
by two years. This would set the expiration dates as follows: The
City Park Nine contract would expire December 31, 1995; the
Collindale contract would expire December 31, 1996; and the
SouthRidge contract would expire December 31, 1997. This motion
was seconded by Cindy Roper and approved unanimously by the Golf
Board (8:0).
1994 GOLF BOARD ANNUAL REPORT
A draft copy of the 1994 Annual Report was distributed to Golf
Board members. The format was changed from previous years. Each
issue was listed with the Board consensus and where we are headed.
This final report approved by the Golf Board goes to City Council,
and copies are sent to all City Boards and Commissions. Jerry has
available copies of work plans from all the other boards and
commissions. Cindy Roper stated that she would like to see
something in the report that our golf pros are doing a great job
and commend them for their efforts. Mary Hodge observed that our
report just deals with the issues the Golf Board has faced and
discussed. Jerry stated that the other boards have pretty much
just dealt with the issues. Mary said she wouldn't mind breaking
out of the stereotype of other commission's reports. Henry
suggested adding a paragraph thanking the staff and pros for doing
such a great job. Tom White agrees with the comments that Board
issues are related with the activities of the pros and maintenance
staff. What we do on the Board does influence what is done at the
golf courses.
It was moved by Tom DeGrand that the draft of the 1994 Golf Board
Annual Report be approved with the addition of a paragraph thanking
the golf professionals and staff. Mary Hodge seconded the motion
which was approved unanimously (8:0).
OTHER BUSINESS
-- Frank Blanco requested an update on the status of the pump at
Collindale. Doug Evans, superintendent, is working with the
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January 18, 1995
Page 7
Purchasing Division in putting together the final
specifications for the pump that will be sent out to bid. We
will sub -contract pieces of this project with Doug acting as
the contractor. Doug is planning to have the pump operational
by May 15.
-- Frank asked why, after a snow storm, some courses open for play
and others do not? Shortly after a recent storm he played at
Ptarmigan and saw they had shoveled the snow off their course.
It was then speculated why this was not practiced in Fort
Collins, since we have people on an annual salary who work all
year. Maybe the snow could be shovelled off greens to allow
for some extra play.
Randy Bonneville stated that SouthRidge would not attempt to
clear greens that have ice as the greens could be damaged. If
the weather reports predict a cold snap we use guess judgement
and try to look at the long range forecast. Frank asked who
makes the final decision on whether a course opens? Jerry
stated that the superintendent at each course has the call at
their course. He added that he has the choice to override. we
have, however, chosen to follow the decision of the
superintendent.
-- Henry asked about the status on updating the Golf Division
Operation and Policy Manual. Jerry responded this is still in
the works and his hope is to have it completed this year.
-- Henry stated that the City of Fort Collins is in the process of
holding open meetings called "City Dialogue". These meetings
are public meetings to get citizen input on their perception of
Fort Collins' future. It seems that we, as Golf Board members,
should be waving a flag that we will be needing another golf
course in five or ten years. David Shands is participating on
the Master Plan Committee for Parks and Recreation. This is
different from City Dialogue. It would seem that letters could
be addressed to the people running this program, or one letter
on behalf of the Golf Board referencing the issue of golf. It
was also suggested that we encourage our acquaintances to
attend this opportunity for public input. Jerry stated that
"City Dialogue" is strongly supported by City Council.
-- At this point Henry brought up his idea of a committee to look
down the road at the future of golf in Fort Collins. He is
asking for guidance on how to select people to serve on this
panel. At this point Henry doesn't know how many meetings this
would entail or how often they would meet. It was suggested
that Mark Crabtree from CSU would participate on this
committee. Bob McCluskey might be a good candidate for this
group, and possibly someone from the Golf Board. Henry would
Golf Board Minutes
January 18, 1995
Page 8
like a little input from the Board, and asked if one of the
golf pros would like to participate. Cindy Roper agreed to
participate with Henry on this committee. David Shands
suggested contacting the men's and women's associations at the
courses. Also to get seniors and others to participate, maybe
a notice could be posted at the clubhouses requesting
volunteers. Henry would like to have this committee up and
running within three months.
BOARD MEMBERS AND STAFF COMMENTS/REPORTS
-- Jim Greer announced that VISA and Master Card will be fully
accepted at all courses in 1995. An agreement was finally
reached with the bank.
-- Cindy, referencing the letters that have been received
regarding fees and charges, expressed her appreciation to Jerry
for the work he has put in answering these letters and the way
they have been answered. It was added by Mary that we can't
force somebody to change their concept and how these are
viewed. Henry commented that it boils down to the golf fund
not getting enough money to pay for the services provided.
Jerry stated the worst case scenario would be annual pass
holders paying $2.00 more per round.
-- David Shands would like to see the punch cards be valid for the
same time period as an annual pass; March through February.
-- Tom White thanked the pros for coming tonight and sharing
information on Junior Golf and the programs they offer. He was
not aware of all the things pros offer. Tom DeGrand seconded
the thanks as he also was not aware of everything offered for
Junior Golfers. Mindy Markley further complimented the pros.
-- Referring to one of the letters that was received by staff,
Mary Hodge is not sure what was their purpose for writing; they
think the Golf Board has no purpose. In addition Mary
expressed her disappointment that golfers think we can run the
golf courses without funds, and is sorry that groups think the
Golf Board doesn't listen to them. The Golf Board entered into
a discussion on how we can deal with and communicate with the
people dissenting the fee structure. David Shands observed
that people probably feel they are not brought into the
decision process soon enough. Tom White stated the only way
would be their attendance at every meeting.
Jerry stated that staff doesn't get the opportunity to finalize
preparing the fees until around August. The City Council
receives the City budget on September 1 (date is set by the
City Charter). Tom asked if the public has access to the Golf
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January 18, 1995
Page 9
Board minutes? Jerry responded that the City Clerk's office
has copies, and they can also get copies through Jerry. Mary
wondered if a citizen open night for input to the Golf Board
could prevent this happening every year? Cindy observed that
most people come with one thing in mind - they don't want to
pay more money and it doesn't matter that the Golf Fund needs
more money to operate. The Board agreed and consensus was
golfers want the other guy to pay, not me. These people also
seem to be the first to complain about the course conditions.
Mindy added that Board members are also public golfers and we
don't like to see our fees go up either. She views her role as
a Golf Board member to bring ideas presented to her up for
discussion by the Board and staff. Tom DeGrand added that most
people don't see us as golfers. We are the "Golf Board" and
not part of the general public.
Frank felt if the public was involved from the start, we could
respond to criticism by stating these people were at or invited
to the meetings when this topic was first discussed. Jerry
suggested starting with a public meeting in June, stating that
specific fees can't be decided until September or October.
After the fee structure is in place, then we could discuss
fees. Jim Greer reminded the Golf Board members that they
should realize it is a very small percentage of people who are
upset with the fee structure. Most of our golfers know what a
great deal they have. However, Tom DeGrand stated it wouldn't
hurt to take that extra step.
-- Jerry distributed the entire expenditure print-out for 1994 to
the Board. The bottom line in revenue ended $57,000 more than
what we expected; the expenditure side has a $39,000 balance.
This means the Golf Fund will carry approximately $100,000 in
reserves which will give us more flexibility when establishing
fees and charges for 1996.
-- 1994 was nearly a record year for play at both Collindale and
SouthRidge. City Park Nine, however, remained down. We may
plan some promotions at City Park Nine to bring up the number
of rounds played in 1995. Frank wondered why we charge the
same fee at City Park Nine, a 9-hole course, that we charge at
our 18-hole courses?
-- The revenue from golf car rentals exceeded all projections and
records; not just in Fort Collins, but this appears to be a
trend across the country. The bids for purchasing golf cars in
1995 for Collindale will be opened on January 20. It is
planned to purchase 15 cars, and lease an additional 10 cars
each for Collindale and SouthRidge.
Tom White moved that the meeting be adjourned and Cindy Roper
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January 18, 1995
Page 10
seconded the motion.
adjourned at 9:40 p.m.
Meeting Attendance
Motion Approved (8:0) and the meeting
Respectfully submitted,
Alyce Nierman, Secretary III
Golf Division
BOARD MEMBERS STAFF GUESTS
Henry Fry
Frank Blanco
Tom DeGrand
Mary Hodge
Mindy Markley
Cindy Roper
David Shands
Tom White
Jerry P. Brown
Randy Bonneville
Derek Cordova
Jim Greer
Joe Nance
Alyce Nierman
Sean Duff
Charlie Musgrave
Jon Stimac
Stan Vyvial