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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 05/17/1995CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bob McCluskey, Jr. STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Secretary. MINUTES: Regular Meeting of May 17, 1995 The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Golf Board President Henry Fry. AGENDA REVIEW AND ITEMS OF NOTE: There were no changes to the printed agenda. Tom White called to state he would be unable to attend tonight's meeting. Also, Cindy Roper has submitted her resignation as a member of the Golf Board as other commitments will be keeping her from attending meetings on a regular basis. It was moved by Mary Hodge and seconded by David Shands that the minutes of the regular meeting of the Golf Board held on April 19, 1995, be approved as submitted. The motion passed (7:0). CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation. Doug Evans, Superintendent at Collindale, reviewed the status of the projects underway at Collindale. The driving range was seeded last week, but not under ideal conditions. Bluegrass seed was used as it repairs itself so well. Repairs will be seeded with perennial rye grass to get a fast growth, but it is not a good grass for self repair. Light rain showers would have been better than the heavy rains and extreme weather conditions we have been receiving. The tee project is totally done, however, time will tell whether the seed took hold as there should be something coming up within 7-10 days. About $1,800 of the 1995 budgeted Collindale maintenance money was used to finish the project. The Collindale Men's Association has reimbursed $1,000, and Joe Nance will reimburse $500 towards these costs. The costs stated do not include labor. Tom DeGTand asked if the area in front of new tee area would be reseeded? Doug stated this area will be reseeded as soon as people are moved up top. However, it will be a couple of months before the top area can be used. The pump project is coming along reasonably well. The wet well was installed first where the pump sits. Doug stated that the 5' diameter concrete sits on the lake bank with an 18" flume that goes into the lake. Extra discharge capacity was needed and the installation cost was approximately $21,000. It was anticipated Golf Board Minutes May 17, 1995 Page 2 the concrete pad will be laid this week. The pump station was planned for installation the first week in May, but we are waiting for the concrete foundation. The pump house was originally estimated to cost around $6,000. This will be put out to bid and could run a couple thousand more than estimated. The total cost may be $5,000 over the $80,000 budgeted amount, but Doug feels this money can be taken from the existing O&.M budget. The control panel and the controls of the old system are totally worthless. The old pumps are worth something and Doug will continue working on possible trade-offs. There is one old pump left on the other lake and Doug plans to keep it as a back up. The weather and rains have slowed the progress of the people working on the pipe. We will probably sod #16 and the tees on #15 and #18; and more than likely seed the remaining areas dug -up during this project. Henry Fry thanked Doug for the update and added that use of the tee box on the driving range probably will not occur until around August. Mindy Markley complimented Doug on the new trees and all the work done at Collindale. Doug added that the money received from the Collindale Ladies group was used for plants and flowers which were placed on the forward tees. I Dow mi neftmew uiwo 11F."I uffa is MWN 011MA a PIW16Z4)MW� It had been stated in the 1995 Work Plan that in May the Golf Board would begin reviewing the process for setting 1996 fees and charges. Prior to recommending fees for 1996, the Board would like to receive citizen input to avert the feelings that the Board sets fees without considering the options. The current fee structure was reviewed and different options were discussed. Frank Blanco asked if passes could be used by members of the Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday leagues at Collindale? Jerry advised the Board that advance priority play (i.e. tournaments or advance blocked time leagues) cannot use annual passes. There are, however, a couple of exemptions that were set up several years ago. There have been no major fee structure changes since approximately 1987, other than the addition of per play fees and establishing prime times. During the recent discussions on fees, specific issues and concerns were raised which include prime time/non-prime time; resident/ non- resident fees; multi -tier annual passes; and the 10 play punch card expiration dates. The Board also felt a need to include discussion on the per play fee for pass users. The Board wants to get advanced citizen input, and it was discussed how we can involve citizens in this process or how we would gather information. One other issue to decide is whether to have a Golf Fees Sub -Committee or the Golf Board? Changing the fee structure is something that can be started now. Henry Fry stated this should be viewed as a two-part operation. The fee structure needs to be established first. This structure can then be used to affect the proposed fees Golf Board Minutes May 17, 1995 Page 3 for 1996. Focus should be made on the current process and areas the Board feels are broken and need fixing. Jerry presented statistics that show a decrease in revenue of around 2% ($31,000) as of April 30. The late April weather has really hit hard at golf rounds played. Also, we are experiencing around 100 less annual pass sales. Jerry commented further that discussions on fees for the following year historically have not be started until August, as by that time there is a better picture of the budget. Usually if revenue is behind in May, the Fund can never catch up. It should be stressed during early discussion that things could change either way depending on the weather and other possible factors. Frank felt if the Board could get the fixed expenses the Golf Fund will pay in 1996, it would assist in this process. Armon Johannsen suggested that Jerry develop some "what ifs" using Monday through Friday as non -prime, annual pass use only during restricted times, etc. He would like to see how these numbers would work out. Mindy Markley relayed suggestions she has received that the per play fee be backed down and increase the annual base fee. She further agrees that setting the budget in May for next year, before the golf season has really started, is very difficult. If public meetings are held early enough where people could come forward with their ideas, we may be able to use some of their ideas in the full process. At the least, citizens would be able to express their thoughts before the final process begins. Frank supported this statement by relaying feelings that the meeting last fall at Collindale did not give enough advance notice to citizens. Mary Hodge speculated that holding public meetings in June or July would give the Golf Board the opportunity to present different scenarios to the citizens on how different fee structures would affect golf in Fort Collins, and would afford citizens an opportunity to voice their opinion and concerns. Jerry would like to be. able to look at prime and non -prime, and the per play fee. When setting prime -time hours we used times already established at SouthRidge and not necessarily what was best for City Park Nine and Collindale. The Board at that time wanted to keep all three courses as consistent as possible. It was decided initially to try this for a two-year period (this is the second year). The per play fee should be considered as a separate issue. Armon commented that initially we thought this would bring the three courses together. Now that we've started down that road we may have to change them. Jerry added that we didn't really think out how City Park Nine and Collindale compared to SouthRidge. Mary noted that the income at SouthRidge appears to be good with the prime time concept. She asked if City Park Nine and Collindale return to non -prime would that pull revenue away from SouthRidge, and would that income be lost? Jerry would like to see City Park Golf Board Minutes May 17, 1995 Page 4 Nine and Collindale go to non -prime time on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday until 2:30 p.m. and have SouthRidge remain the same. Mary asked Joe Nance if people hunt for prime/non-prime bargains or do they just play the course they like? Joe's opinion is it may affect a small segment of the population, but not all golfers. What course is played seems to be determined more by what course a particular group of friends play. In addition, Joe commented that the punch cards make all three courses equal in fees. Jerry would like the Board to look at the prime and non - prime time issue before looking at a variety of scenarios. Mary noted that in purchasing an annual pass, the concept is to keep the cost down, and asked if pass holders would prefer to pay up front? Armon stated he would rather pay up front than have a per play fee. Mindy thinks that most people don't care. Henry commented that since golfers have to register in the pro shop anyway it is not that inconvenient. David Shands has heard comments that when you have' to wait a few minutes it becomes a nuisance factor. Jerry observed that almost every golf course that allows pass use has installed a per play fee. Armon feels that most golfers are not worried about how much each round costs them. He suggested having some earlier citizen input meetings and frame 4 to 5 questions where the Golf Board would like to get answers/input. Frank felt the Board should hold its first public meeting in June to ask what golfers think. Henry doesn't totally buy into the nuisance factor as many people stand in line for service at the movies, etc. Further, he views the fee structure and the setting of fees and charges as two separate issues. Mary feels it is wise for the Board to hear comments on multi -tier programs. We don't have to implement all the comments, but she would like to hear the input. Jerry then posed a couple of questions to the Board for their consideration: Why do we offer annual passes? Is this designed for senior citizens, quantity players, etc? Frank asked what would happen if annual passes were eliminated? Jerry stated pass elimination would delete up front money, and a large infusion of revenue in March. His guess would be there are some people who would not play as much if they did not have a pass. However, Jerry believes that we would make more revenue without passes. Mindy has done some research on her own and has heard from some courses in Oregon that are looking at returning to annual pass use to bring golfers back. In addition they are getting ready to eliminate out-of-town fees. Henry speculated that maybe some annual passes were not purchased this year as golfers want to be able to play other courses. Tom DeGrand added that when golfers get to a marginal break even point, they may decide not to purchase an annual pass and lock their play to one course, but use their golfing money to play other courses. Armon observed that generally E Golf Board Minutes May 17, 1995 Page 5 anywhere you go there is a discount for quantity buying. He further believes that government performs a service and should be giving back to the community, which in turn legitimizes the annual pass. Henry stated that if we were a private enterprise public golf operations, we wouldn't offer an annual pass. Jerry agreed that Armon's point is valid as to our role in the community, however, it is other golfers who subsidize the pass golfer. Frank stated that he plays at different courses on the weekends because of the $4.00 per play fee. Jerry feels that passing the $3.00 mark probably brought everything else to the front. He would like to satisfy the customer needs in addition to meeting our bottom line. Frank asked Joe Nance if he has noticed a difference since the implementation of the $4.00 per play fee during prime time? Joe has definitely noticed a lot of grumbling when that line was crossed. In addition it is confusing to both the staff and golfer having all the time changes from prime time to non -prime time and back -and -forth through the day. He feels the combination of the confusing time changes and the $4.00 per play fee was the straw that broke the golfer's back. Jerry thinks we may have created a problem with prime and non -prime time because of the several transitions during a one -day period. Armon commented that we took a very simple issue and made it over complicated. Dale Smigelsky, Assistant Golf Pro at Collindale, stated that golfer comments he has heard is the Golf Board appears to want as much money from the golfers as possible and they don't feel the Board looks at all aspects. Dale then observed that the average person would be amazed at the process the Board goes through in recommending the fees and fee structure. Tom DeGrand added that this is why early citizen participation and input is important and he further agrees with Henry that this is a two-part process. There have been a lot of negative comments from golfers in the community, but Henry added there are a lot of golfers who feel the Golf Board is doing what needs to be done. Jerry stated that he believes the basic. fee structure is good, it just needs to be tweaked. Henry added that is why the Board should hold public meetings and get citizen input. Discussion then focused on the meeting plans and format. It was suggested the Board schedule one public input meeting and see how it develops before committing to additional sessions. There were many other topics on the June agenda, and inclusion of a public input session would make the regular June meeting quite lengthy. It was decided there should be two meetings in June. The first meeting on June 14 will be held at Collindale Clubhouse at 7:30 p.m. and will be for the sole purpose of receiving citizen input and comments on pre -determined issues. The second meeting will be held June 21 at 7:30 p.m. at the 281 North College Conference Room and will be the regularly scheduled business meeting of the Golf Golf Board Minutes May 17, 1995 Page 6 Board. It was felt that the public input meeting needs to be WELL publicized with notices in the paper, posters at all three courses, etc. There will be a sign-up sheet for people wishing to make remarks on specific topics. A one-half hour time limit will be set for remarks on each topic and the number of people who sign up to comment on each topic will determine how long each person is allotted for their comments. Tom DeGrand feels the issues discussed almost have to be based on comments made by citizens during the meetings last fall on the recommended fees structure establishment. The Board then decided there are four main topics that have been citizen concerns and should be the topics for input at the June 14 meeting. The topics where we will be soliciting comments are 1) prime time/non-prime time; 2) resident/non-resident fees; 3) multi -tier annual passes; 4) per play fees. It was decided that the format for this session does not allow for answering questions, and citizens will have to write their addresses on the sign -in. sheets to enable us to send out answers and information to the concerns raised if desired. The session on June 14 will be mainly a listening session. It was commented that if this turns out to be a good process for getting citizen involvement, the Golf Board may decide to plan public input meetings annually in June to begin the fee review process. It was further stated that the meeting would be very structured. There would be four separate sign -in sheets, one for each topic, where citizens wishing to speak on that topic would sign -in. There will be 30 minutes allowed for each topic. The number of citizens wishing to speak on a particular topic would determine the length they would be allotted to express their thoughts. -- Mindy Markley asked who is in charge of port -a -johns? A very irate golfer was yelling at her the other day on the fullness of the port -a -johns, and wanted Mindy to report this situation to Jerry immediately. -- There was a single rider golf car demonstration at Collindale recently. We are looking into acquiring these type of cars before we get requests to have them available. These single rider cars have seats that can turn and a golfer, without the use of his/her legs, can play from the car. The projected standards are for each 9-hole course there should be one; for every 18-hole course there should be two single rider golf cars. -- Mary Hodge observed that the ad in Triangle is really great in the way it informs of the availability of golf in Fort Collins. Golf Board Minutes May 17, 1995 Page 7 Jerry reviewed the Golf in the various media, i The Recreator also has Fund advertising and what is being done .e. radio, newspapers, magazines, CSU. quite a bit of golf advertising. -- David Shands questioned if there are any plans to better mark the distances at SouthRidge? In addition he is acting as a messenger to report that the tee boxes at #12 are poorly marked. Mindy asked if there could be boxes at the tees for placement of broken tees (so they don't end up as litter)? -- Jerry brought Mr. Stanfield's letter to the attention of the Board. Henry commented that he would contact Mr. Stanfield and inform him of the June 14 meeting. -- Frank Blanco commented that it would be nice if yard markers could be the same standardized color at each course. ADJOURNMENT On a motion from Tom DeGrand and a second by Armon Johannsen, the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:40 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Secretary III Golf Division Henry Fry Jerry Parks. Brown Frank Blanco Doug Evans Tom DeGrand Joe Nance Mary Hodge Dale Smigelsky Armon Johannsen Alyce Nierman Mindy Markley David Shands