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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 07/19/1995CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bob McCluskey, Jr. STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf, and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Administrative Aide I. MINUTES: Regular Meeting of July 19, 1995 The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairperson Henry Fry. AGENDA REVIEW & ITEMS OF NOTE: There were no changes to the printed agenda. As an item of note, Jerry P. Brown mentioned that at the August Board Meeting three sub- committees will be established and there will be a need for at least two Golf Board members serving on each committee. These committees responsibilities would be working with the RFP's for the City Park Nine golf pro concession, the Collindale snack bar, and the SouthRidge Restaurant/snack bar. CONSIDER APPROVING THE MINUTES: Special Meeting of June 14, 1995 It was moved by Armon Johannsen, and seconded by Mindy Markley, that the minutes of the Special Meeting held on June 14, 1995 be approved as printed. The motion was approved (7:0). Mike Sanders and DJ Hjelle abstained from the vote as they were not yet members of the Golf Board. Regular Meeting of June 21, 1995 Tom White moved, and Tom DeGrand seconded, that the minutes from the Regular Meeting of the Golf Board on June 21, 1995 be approved as submitted. The motion was approved (8:0). DJ Hjelle abstained from this vote as she was not a member of the Board at that time. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation. DISCUSSION OF PRO SHOP STAFFING ISSUES AT COLLINDALE AS REQUESTED BY COLLINDALE GOLF PRO JOE NANCE Henry Fry asked if Board members felt a need to go into executive session. The answer was no at this time. Jerry P. Brown then gave a brief background on this topic and why it is part of the agenda Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 2 for this evening's meeting. During the last year or so, outside of the golf fee issue, most of the complaints received by Jerry have referenced staffing issues at the Collindale pro shop. Some are just questions regarding what is happening? Jerry and Joe Nance have had several discussions on these topics and Joe suggested these issues be brought before the Golf Board for open discussion. Citizen Jim Vandevelde stated that when Joe began fulfilling his contract at Collindale, Suzanne was extremely sweet, but recently he has noted that she has been very short and curt with people. Citizen Louis Scharf commented that Suzanne has been a perfect lady in his experience and she has been nothing but helpful and accommodating. Jerry passed out excepts from the pro contract at Collindale regarding service requirements and possible defaults. Also distributed was Exhibit A of the contract and the RFP specifications. These pages spell out the responsibilities of the pro under the contract. Henry again questioned whether this becomes a personnel issue and asked for the opinion of other Board members. Mindy Markley asked if others had brought up this topic, and Henry replied this was on tonight's agenda at Joe's request. Frank Blanco asked if Joe had any comments he would add. Joe stated that his preference is to have this discussion in the open and not go into executive session. He does not want to have secrets from anyone. As the Board generally agreed with Joe's sentiments, Henry offered the floor to Joe to lead the discussion. Joe started by stating that there has been quite a bit of talk, questions asked, and concerns raised on the pro shop and staffing at Collindale. Further, Joe wants to talk about these issues with anyone who has questions or concerns. Jerry agreed that since there have been a number of phone calls it might be a good idea. Basically Joe feels this is an opportunity to update the Golf Board on what is happening in his life, in addition to the fact that he likes to meet concerns head on. Referencing the amount of time he has spent at Collindale recently, Joe reported that he and his wife have started another business. In looking for a location to operate the wholesale end of this business, they were offered a retail outlet that they felt could not be passed up. In trying to decide if they wanted to also venture into retail, Joe kept thinking that this opportunity would give him the experience he needed that could be used at Collindale. His main concern was and is that everyone's needs would be met first at Collindale, so he planned extra staffing at Collindale to be sure the needs of the golfers were met. Joe's intent was that when April I came around he would be at the golf course more often, and he has done that. During the last couple of years as assistant pro at Collindale Joe averaged 50-60 hours per week, and during those last couple of years as assistant he was consistently fielding complaints of "Where is the pro?" The first couple of years that Joe was golf pro at Collindale he spent 70-90 hours per week at the course. Those hours paid off as the pro shop is beautiful. During the last six months or so, Joe has spent between 35-45 hours per week on golf, which does not include meetings or schooling. The staff at Collindale has been informed that Joe is available at any time and he can Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 3 be reached for golf course concerns. However, he definitely is not at the course the same number of hours that he spent during the first couple of years. In preparation for this he has hired qualified personnel, in particular Dale Smigelsky, to be his right hand and communicate directly with him regarding activities, concerns, etc. at Collindale. Dale is a PGA Class "A" golf professional, and Joe felt this was a good move for the pro shop as well as the City Golf Division. This went fully along with the basis that the customers be taken care of Joe then reviewed the staff currently on board at Collindale. Joe, in dealing with all the golfers each week, does not feel anyone would be able to satisfy everyone's wants, especially special interest groups who are trying to get their own "deal". The approach used at Collindale is that we don't give in to special requests. It is also felt by Joe that if some of the complainers didn't have him to pick at they would have other complaints. If the complaints are valid, Joe would like to rectify the situation. His hopes are that the information he is sharing tonight will help the Golf Board to give responses to persons registering complaints. Joe is continually trying to make improvements at the pro shop (inventory, lighting, displays, etc.); the junior program has grown tremendously during the last couple of years; the Collindale Invitational has come back to being one of the more prestigious tournaments in the state. In the recent past Joe has installed one of the premier club repair facilities at Collindale and the teaching staff has achieved a great reputation. The current projects at Collindale include the installation of a tournament scoreboard, redoing the lounge area, and making the handicapping program what Joe believes is one of the best around. Joe added that he is always open to new ideas and likes to try new things; some work, some don't. Basically Joe views being a pro is more being a manager than being a golfer. Another large project Joe would like to tackle is developing and installing a well planned fast play program. He hopes to curtail the slow play problem that seems to be growing. Joe reiterated that if he believed the customers were not being treated well he would be very concerned. In addition Joe is acquiring new knowledge and experience in the area of food service that he feels would be an advantage in running a total clubhouse. Joe thanked the Golf Board for letting him come tonight to address concerns that have been raised. Armon Johannsen asked what thoughts Joe might have in reference to speeding up play? One idea shared by Joe was to modify the scorecards and have score levels for various tee boxes. This will let the golfer know that if they play an 85 or better, they should play from certain tee boxes. Another area would be the education of golfers; requiring videos be viewed regarding the speed of play and courtesy of the game (this could be encouraged, maybe not required). One additional idea would be signage on the golf course. Frank Blanco asked Joe about the current ranger program and if there were plans to upgrade? Joe stated it would be great if we could afford to have a course ranger all day, everyday. It is hoped that a video would help in educating and informing golfers that rangers have authority on the course. Regarding the staff at the Collindale pro shop, Joe acknowledged that Suzanne Nance has generated Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 4 more comments than everyone else there. Suzanne happens to be the most stringent staff person regarding policy. Since her son is the golf pro Suzanne doesn't give in to pressure as she doesn't want to be accused of taking license or giving special treatment. Lately Joe has been in agreement with some of the comments as he can see where this strong stance is starting to wear on her, and he has talked with her on this situation. Citizen Julie Vandevelde stated the problem is not really what is said, but the way she says things; more the tone being used. Maybe Suzanne could tone comments down, not necessarily change her policy. Citizen Dick Ward wondered to what extent Joe's schedule would allow him to get on a golf car, drive around the course, and play a hole or two of golf with some of the golfers? Joe said he is trying to get staff out on the course at least once every half hour. Julie Vandevelde suggested that maybe staff can sit for a while in different areas where there always seems to be a backup in play. Henry directed the discussion back to the issues of the Collindale pro shop, and went once around the table for comments and opinions of the Board members. Frank asked if Joe had a schedule of hours that he is at Collindale? Joe stated that he works 35-45 hours per week at Collindale; sometimes in his office where customers are unaware of his presence. Joe worked 26 hours at the course last weekend, and puts in other weekend hours when necessary for tournaments, etc. Jerry added that other municipalities that don't contract out the pro position and generally have an established 40-hour week. Tom DeGrand commented that so much of this is individual perspective and that every time he is at Collindale he sees Joe at the course. If Joe were not spending time at Collindale or did not have qualified staff present, we would be seeing that in the lack of pro services. This is not perceived as a problem by Tom as he has always been treated well. Mindy feels that Joe is a professional manager. Management is not in tracking the number of hours worked; a good part of management is delegation. Further, Mindy commented that she is stunned since she had no idea this was going on. Mike Sanders commented that he has received professional service whenever he goes to Collindale. However, perception is reality; so there must be a problem. A manager has to find a way to serve both masters. Tom White suggested Joe realign his schedule where people would see him more. In addition Tom personally has no problems with the service he receives at the pro shop. Armon was planning on suggesting the same thing; maybe Joe could stagger his schedule a little. One additional comment made by Armon was that 50-60 hours per week is not uncommon for someone running their own business which is what the pro shop is at Collindale. Henry echoed the same thoughts. Henry further commented that when Joe first started he was very visible and as of lately that hasn't been the case. It was also felt that staggering the scheduled hours at Collindale was a good idea. DJ Hjelle asked if Joe had a suggestion box; if not, maybe one could be set up. David Shands didn't feel he could add a whole lot, except that he has not had a problem with Suzanne. DISCUSSION ON SLOW PLAY CONCERNS Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 5 Henry Fry began by restating Joe Nance's comment that we need to educate our market, and figure out how to address this situation. It was felt that a start would begin tonight by holding a round table discussion. Armon Johannsen agrees that this topic needs to be discussed, and whatever action is taken needs to be user friendly. If the first three or four groups of the day don't set a 4-hour pace, the course and play will be slow all day. Jim Greer noted that during the recent city tournament, play took around 5.25 hours. Armon noted that Marianna Buttes has a ranger at each 9 hole start and they also explain course expectations. Mindy Markley stated that a starter seems a little intimidating at the #1 tee box, but agrees that a lot of the problem is lack of education. Mike Sanders agrees with Mindy that this goes back to education. Tom White observed that with the popularity of golf many people pick up clubs and "become a golfer" without knowing the rules. Joe added that the biggest complainers about slow play seem to be some of the slowest players. Frank Blanco restated Armon's idea about the first group of golfers in the morning; maybe see if there is some way to inform the first group to keep up the pace of play. Tom White noted that some courses don't give a scorecard until the golfer gets to the first tee box. Henry felt the Board's goal should be to form a committee to discuss the different options and possible solutions to improve slow play. Further, a policy statement should be developed that we can implement and live with. We should take a stand on slow play and try to eliminate it where possible. Jerry would like to have all three golf professionals serving on this committee as each course has different characteristics. Certain issues may be more important at one course over another. In prior years, the City was subsidizing the ranger program. However, this was eliminated and the money was applied to the golf pro contract, and the City is no longer involved in the ranger program. Derek Cordova bid his contract differently as his bid was accepted after the change in the ranger program. In reviewing the existing contract, Mike Sanders noted that the pro is to serve as the primary marshall. Citizen Louis Scharf wondered if whether the ranger position may be undervalued? In some sense the most important work is on the course on a daily basis. He further hoped that the Golf Board does not undershoot its ambitions. He noted that in the British Isles a game of golf is 3 hours long, allowing 10 minutes per hole. Jerry observed that it seems everybody here knows that the issue of slow play is a national concern. It is also interesting to note that in the United States 18-holes is viewed as a 4+ hour game. Henry noted that a couple of years ago the Colorado Golf Association rated Collindale at 3 hours 50 minutes. It was then asked if there were Board members who would be interested in serving on this committee? Tom DeGrand asked if the Board is looking at implementation of a plan this year? Henry views this as something to study for the next 4-5 months and roll out a plan next spring along with an education program on how we handle slow play. Tom DeGrand, Frank Blanco, and Mike Sanders agreed to be on this committee, and Henry Fry will help where he can. Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 6 REVIEW POTENTIAL OPTIONS FOR 1996 GOLF FEE STRUCTURE A memo was prepared for the Golf Board from Jerry P. Brown who believes that the Golf Board needs to do what they personally feel is right. Jerry has had a very difficult time trying to put exact figures to the different options as the only constant has been the loss of annual pass card purchasers. In talking to Greeley and Loveland, their pass numbers have decreased also and it seems to be the trend. Jerry has tried to develop options based on discussions and comments he has heard over the last year and include these options in the memo. Once the Board determines what options feel the best for us, we can start developing actual fees (dollar amounts). There are three basic areas of consideration: prime time and non -prime time, annual pass per play fees, and multi -level pass options. Prime time and non -prime time options were reviewed with Option A listing the different offshoots, and Option B eliminating prime time/non-prime designations altogether. Most golf courses count all day Friday as part of their package for prime time. Option A also assumes that we keep non -prime time October through March and weekends April and September. The second area for review is the annual pass per play fee. Options A through G were reviewed. It was noted that one item that clearly has to be included is a junior rate as there is strong support from City Council, the Golf Board and citizens. Referring to Option E, Jerry commented that in his research he has not found any per play fee that exceeds $3.00 and if nothing else, he would like to see that option adopted. Jerry stated that he would like the Golf Board to indicate which option(s) they see as the most plausible, and then he will take that option(s) and start working up a fee plan. The emphasis by the Board should be to keep it simple. Henry Fry stated that with simplicity in mind, and looking down the road, he asked the Board if Monday through Thursday, and Friday through Sunday would aide in keeping things simple rather than a break in Friday. Armon personally prefers the break to be noon on Friday. However, we may come back in a year and change that time, but at first he would like to try the 12:00 noon break on Friday. Henry then added that the non -prime time pass would probably be restricted to the same non -prime hours established. Henry commented that SouthRidge should be viewed as a separate issue, and Derek Cordova agreed stating that the system as it is currently set up works quite well. Jim Greer expressed his support of Henry's comments and suggested option 94 with a Monday through Thursday non -prime time set up. DJ Hjelle added her support, and commented that as a new Board member it is less confusing to have full days established as prime time rather than breaking time up. Armon Johannsen moved that in relation to prime time and non -prime time the Golf Board recommend Option A, which states non -prime time will be all times during the months of October through March; weekdays in April and September; and during May, June, July and August through Labor Day, Option #5 stating that non -prime time will be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday all day, and Friday until 12:00 noon. Mike Sanders seconded the motion made by Armon, Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 7 but asked for a clarification on whether this would be for all three courses or just for City Park Nine and Collindale. Armon Johannsen accepted a friendly amendment that SouthRidge remain as is and his motion be restricted to use of City Park Nine and Collindale Golf Courses. The amended motion passed (7:2). Opposed were Henry Fry and DJ Hjelle. Henry stated that the Board is now reviewing the annual pass per play fee; and asked for any thoughts on this section. Armon strongly believes that per play fees should be dropped completely and add the dollars up front. His perception is that per play fees cause an unfriendly situation at the pro shop. Jerry stated this would boost up front costs by about $30-$75 per pass. Citizen Louis Scharf added that to achieve the same revenue, his figures show that an unrestricted pass would cost $525 and a restricted pass would increase from $300 to $400. Jerry pointed out that it is very important to look at what other public courses are doing, and they are all including per play fees. Mindy Markley observed there is a small plus to Option A in that the Golf Fund would be assured a little money in revenues early in the year to use as a cushion against bad weather. Tom DeGrand heard in the meetings and discussion held on the fees that people did not mind paying an additional amount up front. If it is a relatively minor amount, his preference would be Option C. DJ expressed her thoughts that $.50 is not worth the paperwork, so it should probably be set at $1.00. Tom DeGrand stated that all of these assume that the front end costs would be increased, but this would also be determined by the amount chosen for the per play fee. David Strands added that he heard from citizens at the meetings that per play fees should be eliminated and raise the pass fee. Tom White observed that what people say is not necessarily what they mean. Henry speculated that the 12 people that are vocal about eliminating the per play fee may not be expressing the views of the 200 people who did not come to the meetings. Henry added that he does not want the Golf Board to be driven by complainers. Citizen Richard Ward stated that the Board needs to be aware of the people who did not purchase passes. Also, if a pass is purchased for $525 there should be no per play fees. Henry feels that if we charge $525 for a pass we will lose more pass purchasers. Discussion then centered on the value of paying up front vs per play fees. Mindy commented that in trying to deal with prime and non -prime hours, she would like to choose Option A; but feels the Board may have to look at a compromise and experiment for a year. A straw poll was done and five members were in favor of a per play fee. Henry stated that by the changes made to the hours of prime and non -prime in the previous vote, the Board has reduced possible income to the Golf Fund. Because of the changes already recommended by the Board, Option #E makes the most sense to Henry. Tom White added that in the Denver area if a person only plays 9 holes, they still pay for 18. Jerry stated that the Northern Colorado area has more supply than we have demand and we would not be able to get away with that policy. From a staff perspective, the preference is Option C or E. Mindy asked if it would be possible to look at Options C and E with dollar figures? Henry concurred, stating that he would like to see these options with dollar figures that take into account the change in prime and non -prime time hours. Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page S With regards to multi -level annual passes, it appears the options previously chosen leaps the discussion directly to C. It appears this is where we are now with exception that the $300 senior pass would now be called a limited access pass and is only usable during non -prime hours; and $400 would be for an unrestricted pass. DJ asked about cost breaks for couples. With the decrease in the number of couples (from 35 to 11), Armon stated there does not appear to be a need for couple fees. Jerry has tried to have breaks for junior golfers, and feels there should be a junior non -prime fee. Mike Sanders added that the purchase of a junior pass should include an education in golf etiquette. Jerry added that this should be for all golfers. David Strands asked if a price could be set for an annual pass that would include unlimited play at SouthRidge? Jerry responded that he has clearly stated over the years that he does not want to see pass use at SouthRidge until the debt is paid. Henry Fry endorses that policy. Jerry asked the board for their feelings on this issue. A straw vote was taken and the feelings were that a season pass under the same conditions of use at Collindale and City Park Nine can include play at SouthRidge after the debt is paid. Mike Sanders then asked if person is ready to pay double the amount of an annual pass to play at SouthRidge, why not let them? Discussion then centered around the value that could be placed on an annual pass that could be used at all three course. Included in the discussion was the volume of punch card sales and usage. The punch card is a greater value for the SouthRidge player. As a final question on this discussion, Tom DeGrand asked if Jerry would be setting down numbers to the choices made tonight? Jerry replied that he would use numbers that fit in with the Board consensus and bring these back to the Board for further discussion and recommendation. OTHER BUSINESS -- Jerry had mentioned earlier the three contracts coming up for bid. The first contract will be for the golf pro at City Park Nine and will come out at the end of August or early September. The Collindale Snack Bar RFP will come out shortly after that, and in late October should be the package for the SouthRidge Restaurant/Snack Bar. Jerry will have a draft of the City Park Nine Golf Pro RFP for Board review at the August meeting. Henry stated that Board Members should feel free to call him if they are interested in serving on any of the bid committees mentioned tonight. Jerry added that there will also be a fifth person serving on these committee, traditionally a citizen interested in the particular course or operation up for bid. Frank Blanco asked if figures were available showing which City course is the most cost effective? Jerry responded that Collindale has provided more revenue per person vs cost per person maintenance of the course for many years. However, SouthRidge took that over last year due to an increased number of rounds played and the subsidy approved by City Council. At City Park Nine, if we break even we're lucky. Jerry informed the Board that there will be a telephone outage of the City phone system on Golf Board Meeting July 19, 1995 Page 9 Sunday, July 23. This outage will affect Collindale and City Park Nine. - Mindy Markley has been asked why there are no rain huts at SouthRidge. It was responded that the developer who built SouthRidge intended that golfers would just stand under resident's patios or decks. Since the City took over in 1991, shelters have been on the list to add, but there have been no funds available. -- Jerry noted that as of June 30 the Golf Fund revenue is down over $117,000 from 1995 projections. We are still able to deal with it this year from reserves and reductions in expenses. There are no plans to modify 1996 projections at this time, but we can modify these figures in September if there are additional losses. -- Jerry distributed a copy of an ad placed in the CSU football program; the cost was an equal exchange dollar for dollar value of punch cards. IVaa[811i'm17InLill On a motion from Tom White and a second by Tom DeGrand the regular meeting of the Golf Board adjourned at 10:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I Golf Division Meeting Attendance BOARD MEMBERS STAFF Henry Fry Jerry P. Brown Frank Blanco Alyce Nierman Tom DeGrand Randy Bonneville DJ Hjelle Derek Cordova Armon Johannsen Jim Greer Mindy Markley Doug Evans Mike Sanders Joe Nance David Shands Dale Smigelsky Tom White GUESTS Paul Gilbert Wayne Kershner Jim VanDeVelde Julie VanDeVelde Louis Scharf John Schuh Richard Ward Alan Krcmarik