HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 08/21/1996CITY OF FORT COLLINS
CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES
GOLF BOARD
CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bob McCluskey, Jr.
BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Henry Fry at 482-1158 (w) or 226-0799 (h)
STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf and Alyce Nierman, Golf
Division Administrative Aide.
MINUTES: Regular Meeting of August 21, 1996.
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. at the City Park Nine Golf Course Clubhouse, by
Chairperson Henry Fry.
AGENDA REVIEW: No changes to the printed agenda.
TOUR OF CITY PARK NINE PUMP SYSTEM: The Golf Board meeting was temporarily
adjourned to allow a tour of the City Park Nine irrigation pump system that is planned for upgrades
and improvements next year. The meeting resumed at 7:30 p.m.
Jerry P. Brown reported that Board Members Tom DeGrand and Mike Sanders are unable to attend
the Golf Board Meeting this evening.
Henry Fry commented that he is disappointed that DJ Hjelle will be leaving the Golf Board. DJ said
that she and her husband will be moving to Greeley and therefore has to resign as she will not be
living in the Fort Collins area. She is glad to have been part of the recent movements and activities
of the Board. Henry thanked DJ for all of her contributions to this Board.
It was moved by Byrd Curtis and seconded by Mindy Markley that the Golf Board approve the
minutes of the Regular meeting of July 17, 1996, as submitted. The motion was approved (7:0).
CITIZEN PARTICIPATION:
Mary Cirillo shared that at a meeting she attended today it was commented that the Golf Board would
be discussing the closure of City Park Nine Golf Course, and that a new course would be constructed
in conjunction with Colorado State University. Henry Fry clarified that this is nothing the Board is
discussing, and these comments came from a citizen's suggestion at the last Board meeting as a
potential way to combine two Capital Improvements Projects and to save some money. Mary
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August 21, 1996
Page 2
strongly suggested that the Golf Board not seriously contemplate selling City Park Nine. Henry
commented that citizens should rest at ease as this was merely a suggestion made by a citizen for
Board consideration. DJ Hjelle thanked Mary and other concerned golfers for coming to the Board
meeting and asking about rumors and comments they hear about the courses in Fort Collins. By
coming to the meetings once a month, questions and concerns of our golfers can be addressed or
investigated. Byrd Curtis asked how we can prevent rumors from getting started? DJ commented
that rumors can't be stopped before they are started, but people can contact Jerry or any Golf Board
member with their questions or concerns. Mindy Markley commented that she believes Mary did the
right thing in coming to the Board meeting and asking about her concerns. Jerry P. Brown shared
that he has also heard another rumor that City Park Nine is being closed because Grandview
Cemetery was expanding and going into City Park Nine. This is not true. In addition to her previous
comments, Mary Cirillo wanted to make someone aware that the water fountain on the 7th hole at
City Park Nine leaks and a large hole has developed underneath. This was noted and staff will look
into it.
Richard Brose stated that he has two items he would like to bring to the attention of the Golf Board.
The first item was that during the most recent City tournament, the first-day round at City Park Nine
took 5.5 hours and he believes this was because children were allowed to ride along in golf cars. He
suggested that in future tournaments that children not be allowed on the course as the delay in the
game adversely affects golfers trying to win the tournament. The second reason for his presence at
tonight's Board meeting was that he represents a group of golfers that play at noon at Collindale and
they have discussed a number of topics with which they are concerned. One concern of this group
is that single golfers and twosomes are allowed to tee off before foursomes, and foursomes should
have priority as to play and when they are sent off. During their play today, they called the clubhouse
with concerns about a golfer playing ahead of them who was wearing metal spikes and they heard
today for the first time that there is a one-time forgiveness allowed. Mr. Brose also noted that their
enjoyment of the game is diminished because of the length of time it takes to play a round and the
lack of a course monitor who can go out and check concerns of golfers on the course. He suggested
that more attention be paid to movement of play on the course, and that non -attention to golfer
concerns could possibly lead to confrontations on the course. He further noted that the golf course
looks like a dump due to golfers not replacing their divots or repairing ball marks on the greens.
Henry commented that if anyone has suggestions as to educating golfers to the etiquette of replacing
divots and repairing ball marks, the Board would greatly appreciate hearing these ideas.
Jean Haggard believes the Golf Board is doing a great job and that problems are coming from the
golfers. Mindy commented that the Board has been meeting all year, and quite a few meetings were
spent on the issue of slow play in addition to holding subcommittee meetings. This Board has been
trying to be proactive with this problem, and has designed literature to distribute to golfers. If
someone else has any additional ideas, the Golf Board would love to hear them. Richard Brose
appreciates what the Golf Board is doing, but added that he believes each course should have a
course monitor that has some authority to move players along. Mindy commented that we will be
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August 21, 1996
Page 3
happy to take these comments into account when this issue is dealt with again.
PUBLIC INPUT/COMMENT:
A. "Building Community Choices" Capital Improvement Program 1998-2015
Henry Fry observed that this subject has been discussed for 6 to 8 weeks and asked Jerry to
briefly review the history of this topic. Jerry stated that there are three 1/4 cent sales taxes
currently being collected that are set to expire on December 31, 1997. City Council is asking
City staff and City boards and commissions to gather information on potential projects, and the
various boards and commissions are asked to submit prioritized lists for consideration. City
Council will then review the ideas submitted and develop a final list that may be presented to
voters along with a request to continue these 1/4 cent sales taxes. At the end of 1995 City staff
started putting together a list of projects showing the amount that should be budgeted and the
year each potential project would be scheduled. That list that has been submitted totals nearly
$900 million and includes items such as a new library, a new police center, community parks,
streets, etc. If all three 1/4 cent taxes were re -instituted, the revenue brought in during the
suggested time span of 1998 to 2004 would be $100 million, so quite a few of the suggested
items will be eliminated from the final project list that may be presented to the voters.
The Golf Division staff has submitted a list of four projects they would like to see developed.
#1) Improvements to SouthRidge Golf Course ($665,000); #2) Replacement of the Collindale
Clubhouse ($1.5 million). Also it was suggested that to make this project more attractive to
Council that the cost of this project could be split between the golfers and the Golf Fund; #3)
and #4) would be the construction of two new golf courses in the years 2004 and 2014. Based
on population projections, it is felt additional courses will be needed by that time. It is very
possible that neither course will be built by the City as the private sector or CSU may take the
lead in construction of these new courses. Jerry observed that in view of the other capital
projects being submitted by other City departments and Boards, it may be very difficult for the
Golf Division and Golf Board to get approval for the projects we are submitting.
Henry stated that tonight the Golf Board is here to listen to ideas and comments from citizens
on what they would like to see in the future. Jerry stated that the City courses handle around
150,000 rounds of golf each year, and that we have roughly 14,000 golfers in Fort Collins.
Henry commented that it appears there will be a definite need for additional courses. Mary
Cirillo asked if new courses would be owned by the City? Henry responded that if the City
develops and builds these courses, they would indeed own them. However, if courses were
constructed by private business, they would accept the responsibility. Mary noted that if there
were bad weather years, any courses built by the City could lose money and the City in turn
would ask golfers to pay more. Mindy Markley commented that the Board just wants to make
sure that these ideas are placed before City Council so they are aware of the potential need for
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August 21, 1996
Page 4
additional courses.
Richard Brose noted that $655,000 is needed to acquire land and make changes to the current
holes #17 and #18 at SouthRidge. He then asked how much money is still outstanding on the
SouthRidge debt? Jerry responded that the SouthRidge debt balance is $1.7 million. Annually
there is budgeted $200,000 from the Golf Fund and $200,000 from the Sales and Use Tax Fund,
and by the time the debt is paid in full in 2002 the total paid will be $7.0+ million. Mr. Brose
then asked if the City had ever thought of selling SouthRidge to the residents in the
neighborhood? Jerry stated that the City placed SouthRidge Golf Course on the market a few
years ago, but the neighbors didn't want to take on the responsibility in addition to the fact that
the City had the course already and it was in their neighborhood. Mr. Brose also suggested to
the Board of possibly adding another driving range so there would be one on the upper level of
the course and the other would be on the lower level and possibly having the driving ranges
lighted. Jerry responded that because of the close proximity of the neighbors, lighting would
probably be out of the question.
B. Board Recommendation on Golf CIP Projects
David Shands asked for a clarification on the prioritization of the various projects. Henry added
that the projects submitted should be major projects, though there are quite a few lesser projects
that need to be done sooner which will probably have to be paid from yearly Golf Capital Funds.
Henry commented that the chronological order of the items presented by staff seem to be on the
mark. However, it was suggested by David Shands that the Collindale Clubhouse project be
placed prior to the suggested changes at SouthRidge Golf Course. Tom White asked for
clarification if David was referring to the total SouthRidge package?
As clarification David Shands moved that the Golf Board recommends to City Council the
following Golf CIP Projects: SouthRidge Improvements should be separated into two different
projects -- the first being land acquisitions and hole improvements, and the second part being
improvements at the clubhouse. The projects should then be prioritized with: # 1 land acquisition
and hole improvements at SouthRidge at a cost of $490,000 and a projected time frame of 1998
or 1999; #2 Collindale Clubhouse Replacement at a cost of $1,500,000 and a time frame of 1998
or 1999; #3 SouthRidge Clubhouse Improvements at a cost of $175,000; 94 would be an
additional 18-hole public golf course at a projected cost of $5,600,000 in 2004; and #5 would
be an additional 18-hole public golf course at a projected cost of $5,600,000 in 2014. All cost
estimates are made using 1996 dollars. The motion was seconded by Byrd Curtis.
Henry stated that 1998 or 1999 would be fine with him for the new clubhouse at Collindale;
better than 2003. David commented that in considering clubhouse renovations at Collindale we
should definitely look at dining facilities and maybe a full bar service as those are income
generators. Jerry noted that with these more aggressive time frames there may not be enough
time to collect golfer money, as previously suggested by the Board. David thinks we should see
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August 21, 1996
Page 5
where this goes without the added enticement of golfer money, and this could be added at a later
date if necessary. Mary Cirillo asked if any improvements were planned for City Park Nine, such
as a patio? .Henry noted that at this time we need to focus on major capital expenses? David
suggested that a patio project at City Park Nine would be a great project for the City Park Nine
Women's Association. Richard Brose suggested that if a clubhouse is built at Collindale, we
should consider leaving the current clubhouse at the present location and building around and
over, then remove the existing building.
DJ Hjelle called for question, and the vote of the Golf Board was to unanimously approve the
motion on the revised Capital Improvement Projects list (7:0). Jerry stated that a memorandum
will be prepared and after review and approval by Henry Fry, it will be submitted to City
Council. It was also noted that Board members may be asked to come and speak to Council
about their recommendations.
PUBLIC INPUT/COMMENT- PROPOSED 1997 AND 1998 GOLF FEES AND CHARGES
Henry Fry reviewed the proposed 1997 and 1998 fees. It is being recommended that green fees be
increased by $1.00 over the existing 1996 fees and there are no additional projected increases in green
fees until 1999. Further it is being recommended that golf car rental fees and annual pass fees would
be increased in 1998 with no additional changes until the year 2000. This plan is very simple
compared to years past. It was further noted that Fort Collins courses have the lowest fees in the
Northern Colorado area.
Mary Cirillo asked if the average age of golfers is known? David Strands shared that golf magazines
state the largest increases in the golfing community are juniors and ladies. However, he is unaware
of there being an average age of golfers being reported. Mary stated that a lot of seniors play in Fort
Collins. Henry observed that a large percentage of the seniors playing in Fort Collins are using annual
passes, and he passed on a challenge to golfers to compare fees at other courses in the area. Frank
Blanco asked where this $1.00 would be spent? Jerry stated that this inflationary increase will be
applied to all operating expenses of the Golf Fund. In addition, Jerry stated that if senior rates are
established, other golfers would have to pay more to cover the difference needed to operate the
courses. Henry clarified that the proposal would have the green fees being raised in 1997, and golf
car rentals and annual pass fees being raised in 1998. It is then planned to request increases in these
fees in alternating years.
Vivian Fitch asked when annual passes will be allowed for use at all three municipal courses? Henry
stated that passes are allowed now at all three courses. However, at SouthRidge the Board has
previously determined that full use of passes will not be allowed until the debt is paid off. Jerry noted
that annually $200,000 is worked into the operating expenses of SouthRidge Golf Course that goes
toward paying off the debt. David noted that a lot of golfers have purchased punch cards instead
of annual passes and they thought the rates here were extremely reasonable. Mary Cirillo has heard
that Sunset Golf Course in Longmont has rates of $6.00 and $8.00. Jerry said that he will check on
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August 21, 1996
Page 6
these fees, and in turn will send information out on what he learns.
Clara Alley noted in the proposed fees that increases were not planned for junior golfers and .they are
the ones that don't replace their divots. Mindy Markley commented that junior golfers she has played
with are always replacing divots and repairing ball marks. Also stated was that instead of picking on
them we should view ourselves as teachers and help them learn course etiquette. Henry added that
this Board has historically looked at juniors golfers being the future of the sport and should be
encouraged whenever possible.
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Henry Fry commented that two Golf Board members, Tom DeGrand and Mike Sanders, have
voluntarily expressed their desire to serve on this committee. It would not hurt the selection process
time line if the appointment decision was postponed until the September meeting. The general Board
discussion and feelings were to postpone this item for discussion at the September meeting. Jerry
noted that traditionally we have asked for a representative from each of the men's and women's
associations at the respective courses to serve on this committee. David Shands stated that it needs
to be stressed to these representatives there can be no conflict of interest that might influence their
decision. Jerry informed the Board that the City Purchasing Agent would screen the recommended
appointees to be sure there were no conflicts. Tom White feels it is a terrific way to approach this
issue and having representatives from these groups is an advantage as they are familiar with the
course and the various play issues.
Byrd Curtis commented that he would like more time to study this issue, and is not sure of the
urgency in making a final recommendation at tonight's meeting. Frank Blanco agreed with Byrd's
comments and would prefer not to name individuals tonight. Frank asked about the extent of the
Board's input into the RFP? Henry noted that whatever is offered in the proposals submitted would
be up to the individual. Tom White stated that information submitted in the bids is used when
considering who should be invited for further interviews. Jerry added that we could start with the
same questions that were established by the Board last year for the interviews on the City Park Nine
candidates. Jerry added that the RFP's will be sent out around October 1, and according to the
normal time frame a decision on the appointment of the golf professional should be made just before
Thanksgiving. Mindy Markley would like to see the Golf Board put a little more time into the RFP
and not be rushed in its decision. David commented that since two Board members are missing this
evening, he agreed with Byrd and Frank in that we should wait to decide on appointments until the
next Board meeting. Frank asked who served last year on the Selection Review Committee for City
Park Nine? Jerry stated that David Shards and Mike Sanders served on the Selection Review
Committee in 1995, and Mike made several suggestions on improving the process. Henry feels that
Mike's appointment to this committee would bring his prior knowledge and experience into the
upcoming selection process.
It was moved by Tom White that the Golf Board approve and agree to the structure of the Review
Golf Board Minutes
August 21, 1996
Page 7
Committee as outlined (two Golf Board members, one representative each from the men's and
women's golf associations, one Golf Division staff member, and one representative from the
Purchasing Division). The motion was seconded by Mindy Markley. The motion was approved
(7-0)•
Jerry brought up the question of staff representation on the committee. Traditionally the golf course
superintendent for that course or Jerry Brown serves as a staff representative. Comments have been
made that with the superintendent serving on the selection committee, the pro feels he should bow
down to suggestions made by the superintendent during the last year of their contract or it could
affect whether they are awarded the contract. In addition, Mike Powers has suggested that Jerry not
serve on this committee as Jerry should be the final appointing authority. Jerry is asking the Golf
Board who they would like to recommend for appointment as a staff representative to this
committee? David voiced agreement that the course superintendent should not participate on this
committee, and suggested appointment of the City Council liaison to the Golf Board, and if he could
not participate it should be someone from outside of the Parks and Recreation staff.
Jerry suggested three options: Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide for the Golf Division; Randy
Bonneville, SouthRidge Golf Course Superintendent, (both individuals have no close tie with
Collindale and are willing to serve); or one of three staff members in the Recreation Division who
work with sports issues and have served on RFP review committees in the past. Mindy Markley feels
that a golf course superintendent's viewpoint is important as he is the closest to understanding the
total concept. Frank noted that the superintendents would probably know some of the applicants.
Henry stated that he believes Jerry is headed in the right direction in the appointment of staff
representation on the Selection Review Committee.
Henry noted that we should notify both the Colorado Section PGA and LPGA. The consensus of
the Golf Board is that notifications be made as has been done for previous golf professional
selections. Jerry stated that the Review Committee is only obligated to interview the top three
candidates. Richard Brose asked what is an RFP and is it available for public review? Jerry explained
what a Request for Proposal is, and that viewing could be made of the recent City Park Nine
submittals as they are public documents. Jerry extended an offer to Richard Brose and Mary Cirillo
that if they wish to review the City Park Nine submittals to contact him to make a time to review this
information.
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• Byrd Curtis has noted a change in the mowing height at City Park Nine. He expressed his
pleasure that the concerns he raised on the grass height drew this favorable response. Jerry
noted that David Sadler did some research and found that we could raise the mowing blades
up by 1/8 inch and it would not adversely affect the turf.
0 Frank Blanco asked about the status of the granite tee box markers? Jerry reported that we will
Golf Board Minutes
August 21, 1996
Page 8
see these granite tee box markers before winter.
Mindy Markley passed around pictures taken during the Fort Collins Fore Kids Tournament.
Jerry distributed a final budget report for this tournament, and barring any unknown revenues
or expenses, this tournament raised $2,100.25 for junior golf in Fort Collins. As decided at a
recent Board meeting the money will be used to size any donated clubs for use by junior
golfers. Mindy has already been receiving a lot of calls regarding club donations, etc. Jerry
added that if any clubs come in, we will start putting them aside and by next spring we will be
ready with a distribution policy/program.
Jerry reported that as a follow up on the public address system issue at SouthRidge, which is
part of the complaints of excessive noise on the golf course, a meeting was held with the
concerned SouthRidge neighbors. It was agreed that on Wednesdays, staff would start mowing
on #10 hole instead of hole #1. The neighbors agreed that they bought next to a golf course
and they should probably live with it. There is another group of residents complaining about
their houses being hit by errant shots and they feel it is the responsibility of the course to
remedy the problem. The Board will be kept informed of any activities on these issues.
Mary Cirillo complimented the three golf pros at the City courses. She wanted to let the Board
members know they have all treated the seniors in Fort Collins with a lot of respect.
A motion to adjourn the Golf Board meeting was made by DJ Hjelle and seconded by David Shands.
The motion was approved (7:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
MEETING ATTENDANCE
•.80V
Henry Fry
Frank Blanco
Byrd C. Curtis
DJ Hjelle
Mindy Markley
David Shards
Tom White
Respectfully submitted,
Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I
Golf Division
Jerry P Brown
Clara Alley
Randy Bonneville
Marietta Benzel
Derek Cordova
Richard Brose
Jim Greer
Mary Cirillo
Joe Nance
Vivian J. Fitch
Stacy Neal
Jean Haggard
Alyce Nierman
Shirley Hansen
John Schuh
Richard Watts