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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 01/15/1997• CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Bob McCluskey, Jr. STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Administrative Aide. BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h) MINUTES: Regular Meeting of January 15, 1997 CALL MEETING TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:10 p.m. by Chairperson Mindy Markley. AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda. ITEMS OF NOTE: No items of note. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: It was moved by Tom DeGrand, and seconded by Steve Garcia that the Board approve the minutes of the Regular Golf Board Meeting of December 18, 1996, as presented. The motion was approved (9:0). CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: No citizen participation. REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF 1996 GOLF BOARD ANNUAL REPORT Jerry P. Brown distributed a draft copy of the 1996 Golf Board Annual report for Board review and approval. Steve Garcia asked if the Golf Board would revisit the issue of privatization? Jerry replied that the Golf Board stated they were not interested, but the topic could be brought up again for review and discussion if desired. One major reason the Board was not interested in pursuing privatization was the loss of control of golf course operations. Mike Sanders thanked Jerry for summarizing the Golf Board activities for 1996 and added that he did a very good job. It was then moved by Tom White, and seconded by Mike Sanders that the Golf Board approve the 1996 Annual Report as presented. The motion was unanimously passed (9:0). Golf Board Minutes January 15, 1997 Page 2 DISCUSSION ON THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM FOR GOLF Steve Garcia asked about the financial appropriation status reports distributed by Jerry, in particular, what are the uses of the amounts stated under debt service? Jerry said that one of the debt services is for Collindale which is an annual transfer of $26,234 to repay money borrowed from the Water Fund. The Golf Fund will only be making this payment through 1998. The larger debt service comes under SouthRidge and the amount of $199,000+ is the annual portion paid by the Golf Fund and is set to expire in 2002. Steve noted that the bond market is strong at this time and wondered if refinancing of this amount had been investigated? Jerry replied that this debt is tied to a sewer bond that we can't refinance now. The restricted language of this bond does not allow retiring or refinancing unless done to the whole package. Mike Sanders asked if the City would be amenable to plan where a private company would own the clubhouse over a 20-year period? Mike added that he knows some developers who could build the clubhouse at Collindale, own and operate it for 20 years, and then turn ownership over to the City. Mike asked how people felt about adding a surcharge to rounds played, and set this money aside to make annual payments? Jerry noted that what Mike was presenting was the direction he was looking for. By the year 2002, we would have about half the money needed, and then we might approach City Council to see if they would match these funds. During previously held discussions it was questioned whether only Collindale golfers should pay this surcharge or have all golfers in the community participate. The hardest part to deal with in this program would be the reaction of the annual pass holders. Jerry replied that he fully agrees with the concept of the plan, but is not sure how the golfers will respond. During discussion of this issue, the Golf Board decided it might be a wise idea to put out an RFQ to see if anyone would even be interested in building a clubhouse for the 20-year plan, etc. Mike agreed that laying out the full plan was a good idea, but we don't want to scare away potential developers. Jerry will check internally to see if there is interest in an arrangement of this type. Mike stated that he is aware of developers, who would make the needed improvements, own the clubhouse for 20 years and then walk away. Mike commented that all the City would have to do is go into a long term, favorable ground lease. Jerry noted that the restaurant part of the clubhouse could be very lucrative. It was also noted 20 years is just an estimate of the length of time being used. Jerry said that the critical piece of golf capital expenditures would be the land acquisition to allow for SouthRidge realignment. Natural Resources is getting $27 million from the capital tax over the next eight years. The cost of the land available next to SouthRidge Golf Course is $140,000. Tom White suggested Jerry and Mindy Markley get together and write a letter on behalf of the Golf Board to be sent to the Natural Resources Board. This letter would point out the window of opportunity that is open now for the acquisition of these parcels and how, at the most, it would be passive open space. Discussion followed on the different parcels of land available, how much land is available, whether or not the golf course is considered open space, access to the various parcels, etc. Another issue discussed was the issue of safety as it is proposed the driving range be expanded. We may be able • Golf Board Minutes January 15, 1997 Page 3 to change the #10 tee box away from the neighboring homes and add a chipping green. However, the priority is for course improvements with increased safety a focus on #17 and #18. Mindy suggested presenting everything in a complete package, but stressing that getting the land is the most important issue. Tom White questioned how many years of life are left in the Collindale clubhouse? Jerry responded that we could make the clubhouse last as long as necessary. Mindy noted that the golfers are very much aware of the need for a new clubhouse. There will be screamers, but we will also have a lot of support for this proposal. Jerry stated that we would have to put together a package and then all contractors would have the opportunity to bid on the same project. Mike suggested approaching a developer to design the project and be paid for that service, then we could use that purchased data to present to the potential developers. Mike speculated that feelings by pass holders would be that they pay their money to play golf, not to build a clubhouse. Jerry believes the discussion tonight shows we're on the right track. However, private enterprise will probably need to take the initiative and develop additional courses prior to the City developing such facilities. Steve asked about limitations that may be placed on City initiated bids? Jerry clarified the dollar limitations and length limitations currently in place, but added that more liberal policies are being reviewed at this time. It was restated that tonight the Board is just discussing this issue and that no motion is necessary. Jerry and Mindy will work on a letter that will be sent to the Natural Resources Board for their consideration. Mike added that if the opportunity presents itself, maybe this letter and proposal to the Natural Resources Board could be made in person. Jerry agreed with Tom White's statement that by June we will have a good handle on ideas and the future fee structures. One of many comments made by Board members was to be sure to wear flack jackets in preparation for citizen comments and input. PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION ON SPECIAL PRIVILEGE USERS Mindy Markley began discussion of this issue by stating that the Board has been talking about this for a couple of years. David Shands commented that he thought the last time this topic was brought up, the Board decided to let things stay as they were. Jerry stated that the Golf Division has a policy and procedures manual, but this issue is not fully addressed in that manual. He added that the most controversial piece of this manual could relate to special privilege users, and it was decided this issue should be brought to the table for Board comments and input. If the Board does not want to scrutinize the policies at this time, that is OK. The simplest description of a special privilege user is a person or group that either pays less money, or has special access to course use. Jerry quickly identified some of the special privilege users at our courses: Poudre School District golf teams, Colorado State University men's and women's golf teams, SouthRidge men's and women's associations, Collindale men's and women's associations, City Park Nine women's association, league play, and ladies' day. Jerry added that tonight the Board is just talking concept and not solutions to Golf Board Minutes January 15, 1997 Page 4 special user groups. Theoretically junior golf fees are discounts and could be a special group if the definition of a special group is all people who receive discounts. Tom White commented that discussion of this topic could take a whole meeting. David expanded that this discussion could encompass several meetings. Jerry stated that he could put on paper all the discounts currently being given and present this list to the Golf Board to give them a basis to decide if they want to pursue this issue further. Jerry added that if a group of annual pass holders blocks off a specific time to play it is a special privilege. Henry Fry wanted to clarify that if philosophically the use of annual passes to play in tournaments is a money issue? Frank Blanco suggested that along with a list of the special users groups, that there be an indication what fees are paid by the different groups. Mindy asked if there were limitations to the number of days, tournaments, etc. specified for use and also asked about special privileges for women's groups. One item of concern is the Ladies Day at City Park Nine. Jerry stated that "Ladies Days" were originally started at a time when women weren't allowed on the golf course. Mindy stated that this topic has been brought up every year since she began serving on the Golf Board. It appears that this topic is approached each time on the level of win/lose. Personally, she feels this subject should be dealt with, but the Board should try to approach discussion with the idea that it will be a win/win outcome. Jerry stated that the Collindale Men's Association has been more than generous with donations to the course. Mindy stated that at some courses, leagues have to stand in line for tee times the same as everyone else. David believes that an intelligent discussion of this topic cannot be held without additional data. This belief was generally agreed to by the Board along with the feeling that discussion on this topic should be pursued. Mindy further stated that she would like to see what is currently in place for these various groups, but would also like to have input from these groups on their current needs. Jerry restated that the discussion tonight is philosophical, and at the next meeting we can begin a review of the existing formats. Mike Sanders suggested having representatives from different groups in attendance at a future meeting to offer their viewpoints and give input to the Board. The idea is to eventually have the policy printed. New groups would be evaluated as the need arises, and the policy could be periodically reviewed. Mindy stated that associations are the spirit of a golf course; we should therefore be careful not to kill the spirit of golf in Fort Collins. Byrd Curtis observed that the ultimate goal is reaching a balance between revenue and fairness. Mindy shared her experience that when she is trying to get on the course and all the tee times are full, it is really appreciated when there is a referral to another course that may have openings. Jerry agreed and added that we have never coordinated tournament schedules among the three courses, but maybe we should try to have one course open and available for drop in green fee play. Special privileges are nice on our part, but Jerry is not sure if this is wise in light of possibly asking golfers for additional money as a surcharge to fund capital expenditures. Henry asked about high school teams? Jim Greer commented that these schools have tryouts to determine varsity and junior varsity teams. Henry also clarified that when the high school teams play, their coaches play along and do not pay full green fees. Golf Board Minutes January 15, 1997 Page 5 Jerry noted that these items are part of the full discussion that is being proposed. One other item of note is that there are private courses located in Fort Collins that can write off donated play as a benefit. The effect on the City is we lose revenue for this donated play time. It may be determined after debating this topic that there could be three separate rules and regulation sets establishing practices for each specific course. Mike suggested that review and changes to the rules and regulations be done on an annual basis. The tee time reservation policy could also be included in this review. Henry noted that with our current three day advance reservations, a person can get almost any tee time that is requested. Tom White stated that he would rather know that leagues have specific tee times and reserved days; then he would just find another course to play. Jerry added that most leagues have a guaranteed minimum, even if there are "no shows." Henry commented that with being able to make tee times three days prior, maybe the first hour could be set aside for league players to call in for specified tee times. It was decided by the Golf Board that Jerry should bring in additional data on this topic and the Board would begin discussion of the issues. These discussions will be scheduled on the Board agenda for several more months in a row. Jerry reported in reference to the easement at Collindale, Gene Little and the City have reached an impasse in negotiations. Mr. Little came to the City with a deal that he would improve the property next to the rough on Collindale, and if the City gave him a 10' easement he would build berms, irrigation, Swale, etc., and continue the maintenance of this area forever. The cost for the easements will be $16,700 and Mr. Little is spending just more than $15,000 for improvements and has asked for credit. Jerry said this area could be left in a rough state forever, so the City may not accept Mr. Little's offer. David Shands asked about the status of the new sewer project at SouthRidge? Jerry stated that the developers are not proceeding very quickly. The City has informed them that no construction of this line could occur from the middle of April through Labor Day. A memo was distributed from Storm Drainage stating technical data on this project. The Miramont development has already connected into the existing sewer line along SouthRidge and if they go much further, they will need to proceed with new facilities. Steve Garcia asked about the ownership of the fence along the 6th Fairway at Collindale? Jerry replied that the fence is jointly owned by the golf course and neighboring residents and travels back and forth across property lines. Medema Homes originally installed the fence as the area was being built. As problems arose, we addressed the situations and have made some repairs as they were needed. Mike Sanders asked if there were any indications on the number of people who would be bidding on the City Park Nine Pro RFP? Jerry stated that there would probably be five to Golf Board Minutes January 15, 1997 Page 6 nine proposals. The bids will open at 2:00 p.m. on Friday, January 17, and the review committee will meet at 4:00 p.m. that same day. Jerry brought to the attention of the Board the end of the year revenue for 1996, and the end of the year expenditures for 1996, noting that the Golf Fund will use only $7,000 out of Reserves. There may be some change to the final figures. I.111LII17a iI�1►YY A motion to adjourn the Goff Board meeting was made by David Shands and seconded by Tom White. The motion was approved (9:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I Golf Division Meeting Attendance :ON•IOLVAi r Mindy Markley Jerry P. Brown Frank Blanco Dan G. Bruntz Byrd C. Curtis Derek Cordova Tom DeGrand Jim Greer Henry Fry Alyce Nierman Steve Garcia Mike Sanders David Shands Tom White