HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 01/15/1997•
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES
GOLF BOARD
CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Bob McCluskey, Jr.
STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf and Alyce Nierman,
Golf Division Administrative Aide.
BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h)
MINUTES: Regular Meeting of January 15, 1997
CALL MEETING TO ORDER:
The meeting was called to order at 7:10 p.m. by Chairperson Mindy Markley.
AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda.
ITEMS OF NOTE: No items of note.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
It was moved by Tom DeGrand, and seconded by Steve Garcia that the Board approve the minutes
of the Regular Golf Board Meeting of December 18, 1996, as presented. The motion was approved
(9:0).
CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: No citizen participation.
REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF 1996 GOLF BOARD ANNUAL REPORT
Jerry P. Brown distributed a draft copy of the 1996 Golf Board Annual report for Board review and
approval. Steve Garcia asked if the Golf Board would revisit the issue of privatization? Jerry replied
that the Golf Board stated they were not interested, but the topic could be brought up again for
review and discussion if desired. One major reason the Board was not interested in pursuing
privatization was the loss of control of golf course operations. Mike Sanders thanked Jerry for
summarizing the Golf Board activities for 1996 and added that he did a very good job. It was then
moved by Tom White, and seconded by Mike Sanders that the Golf Board approve the 1996 Annual
Report as presented. The motion was unanimously passed (9:0).
Golf Board Minutes
January 15, 1997
Page 2
DISCUSSION ON THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM FOR GOLF
Steve Garcia asked about the financial appropriation status reports distributed by Jerry, in particular,
what are the uses of the amounts stated under debt service? Jerry said that one of the debt services
is for Collindale which is an annual transfer of $26,234 to repay money borrowed from the Water
Fund. The Golf Fund will only be making this payment through 1998. The larger debt service comes
under SouthRidge and the amount of $199,000+ is the annual portion paid by the Golf Fund and is
set to expire in 2002. Steve noted that the bond market is strong at this time and wondered if
refinancing of this amount had been investigated? Jerry replied that this debt is tied to a sewer bond
that we can't refinance now. The restricted language of this bond does not allow retiring or
refinancing unless done to the whole package.
Mike Sanders asked if the City would be amenable to plan where a private company would own the
clubhouse over a 20-year period? Mike added that he knows some developers who could build the
clubhouse at Collindale, own and operate it for 20 years, and then turn ownership over to the City.
Mike asked how people felt about adding a surcharge to rounds played, and set this money aside to
make annual payments? Jerry noted that what Mike was presenting was the direction he was looking
for. By the year 2002, we would have about half the money needed, and then we might approach
City Council to see if they would match these funds. During previously held discussions it was
questioned whether only Collindale golfers should pay this surcharge or have all golfers in the
community participate. The hardest part to deal with in this program would be the reaction of the
annual pass holders. Jerry replied that he fully agrees with the concept of the plan, but is not sure
how the golfers will respond. During discussion of this issue, the Golf Board decided it might be a
wise idea to put out an RFQ to see if anyone would even be interested in building a clubhouse for the
20-year plan, etc. Mike agreed that laying out the full plan was a good idea, but we don't want to
scare away potential developers. Jerry will check internally to see if there is interest in an
arrangement of this type. Mike stated that he is aware of developers, who would make the needed
improvements, own the clubhouse for 20 years and then walk away. Mike commented that all the
City would have to do is go into a long term, favorable ground lease. Jerry noted that the restaurant
part of the clubhouse could be very lucrative. It was also noted 20 years is just an estimate of the
length of time being used.
Jerry said that the critical piece of golf capital expenditures would be the land acquisition to allow for
SouthRidge realignment. Natural Resources is getting $27 million from the capital tax over the next
eight years. The cost of the land available next to SouthRidge Golf Course is $140,000. Tom White
suggested Jerry and Mindy Markley get together and write a letter on behalf of the Golf Board to be
sent to the Natural Resources Board. This letter would point out the window of opportunity that is
open now for the acquisition of these parcels and how, at the most, it would be passive open space.
Discussion followed on the different parcels of land available, how much land is available, whether
or not the golf course is considered open space, access to the various parcels, etc. Another issue
discussed was the issue of safety as it is proposed the driving range be expanded. We may be able
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Golf Board Minutes
January 15, 1997
Page 3
to change the #10 tee box away from the neighboring homes and add a chipping green. However,
the priority is for course improvements with increased safety a focus on #17 and #18. Mindy
suggested presenting everything in a complete package, but stressing that getting the land is the most
important issue.
Tom White questioned how many years of life are left in the Collindale clubhouse? Jerry responded
that we could make the clubhouse last as long as necessary. Mindy noted that the golfers are very
much aware of the need for a new clubhouse. There will be screamers, but we will also have a lot
of support for this proposal. Jerry stated that we would have to put together a package and then all
contractors would have the opportunity to bid on the same project. Mike suggested approaching a
developer to design the project and be paid for that service, then we could use that purchased data
to present to the potential developers.
Mike speculated that feelings by pass holders would be that they pay their money to play golf, not
to build a clubhouse. Jerry believes the discussion tonight shows we're on the right track. However,
private enterprise will probably need to take the initiative and develop additional courses prior to the
City developing such facilities. Steve asked about limitations that may be placed on City initiated
bids? Jerry clarified the dollar limitations and length limitations currently in place, but added that
more liberal policies are being reviewed at this time. It was restated that tonight the Board is just
discussing this issue and that no motion is necessary. Jerry and Mindy will work on a letter that will
be sent to the Natural Resources Board for their consideration. Mike added that if the opportunity
presents itself, maybe this letter and proposal to the Natural Resources Board could be made in
person. Jerry agreed with Tom White's statement that by June we will have a good handle on ideas
and the future fee structures. One of many comments made by Board members was to be sure to
wear flack jackets in preparation for citizen comments and input.
PRELIMINARY DISCUSSION ON SPECIAL PRIVILEGE USERS
Mindy Markley began discussion of this issue by stating that the Board has been talking about this
for a couple of years. David Shands commented that he thought the last time this topic was brought
up, the Board decided to let things stay as they were. Jerry stated that the Golf Division has a policy
and procedures manual, but this issue is not fully addressed in that manual. He added that the most
controversial piece of this manual could relate to special privilege users, and it was decided this issue
should be brought to the table for Board comments and input. If the Board does not want to
scrutinize the policies at this time, that is OK. The simplest description of a special privilege user is
a person or group that either pays less money, or has special access to course use.
Jerry quickly identified some of the special privilege users at our courses: Poudre School District golf
teams, Colorado State University men's and women's golf teams, SouthRidge men's and women's
associations, Collindale men's and women's associations, City Park Nine women's association, league
play, and ladies' day. Jerry added that tonight the Board is just talking concept and not solutions to
Golf Board Minutes
January 15, 1997
Page 4
special user groups. Theoretically junior golf fees are discounts and could be a special group if the
definition of a special group is all people who receive discounts. Tom White commented that
discussion of this topic could take a whole meeting. David expanded that this discussion could
encompass several meetings.
Jerry stated that he could put on paper all the discounts currently being given and present this list to
the Golf Board to give them a basis to decide if they want to pursue this issue further. Jerry added
that if a group of annual pass holders blocks off a specific time to play it is a special privilege. Henry
Fry wanted to clarify that if philosophically the use of annual passes to play in tournaments is a
money issue? Frank Blanco suggested that along with a list of the special users groups, that there
be an indication what fees are paid by the different groups. Mindy asked if there were limitations to
the number of days, tournaments, etc. specified for use and also asked about special privileges for
women's groups. One item of concern is the Ladies Day at City Park Nine. Jerry stated that "Ladies
Days" were originally started at a time when women weren't allowed on the golf course.
Mindy stated that this topic has been brought up every year since she began serving on the Golf
Board. It appears that this topic is approached each time on the level of win/lose. Personally, she
feels this subject should be dealt with, but the Board should try to approach discussion with the idea
that it will be a win/win outcome. Jerry stated that the Collindale Men's Association has been more
than generous with donations to the course. Mindy stated that at some courses, leagues have to stand
in line for tee times the same as everyone else. David believes that an intelligent discussion of this
topic cannot be held without additional data. This belief was generally agreed to by the Board along
with the feeling that discussion on this topic should be pursued. Mindy further stated that she would
like to see what is currently in place for these various groups, but would also like to have input from
these groups on their current needs. Jerry restated that the discussion tonight is philosophical, and
at the next meeting we can begin a review of the existing formats. Mike Sanders suggested having
representatives from different groups in attendance at a future meeting to offer their viewpoints and
give input to the Board. The idea is to eventually have the policy printed. New groups would be
evaluated as the need arises, and the policy could be periodically reviewed. Mindy stated that
associations are the spirit of a golf course; we should therefore be careful not to kill the spirit of golf
in Fort Collins. Byrd Curtis observed that the ultimate goal is reaching a balance between revenue
and fairness.
Mindy shared her experience that when she is trying to get on the course and all the tee times are full,
it is really appreciated when there is a referral to another course that may have openings. Jerry agreed
and added that we have never coordinated tournament schedules among the three courses, but maybe
we should try to have one course open and available for drop in green fee play. Special privileges
are nice on our part, but Jerry is not sure if this is wise in light of possibly asking golfers for additional
money as a surcharge to fund capital expenditures. Henry asked about high school teams? Jim Greer
commented that these schools have tryouts to determine varsity and junior varsity teams. Henry also
clarified that when the high school teams play, their coaches play along and do not pay full green fees.
Golf Board Minutes
January 15, 1997
Page 5
Jerry noted that these items are part of the full discussion that is being proposed. One other item of
note is that there are private courses located in Fort Collins that can write off donated play as a
benefit. The effect on the City is we lose revenue for this donated play time.
It may be determined after debating this topic that there could be three separate rules and regulation
sets establishing practices for each specific course. Mike suggested that review and changes to the
rules and regulations be done on an annual basis. The tee time reservation policy could also be
included in this review. Henry noted that with our current three day advance reservations, a person
can get almost any tee time that is requested. Tom White stated that he would rather know that
leagues have specific tee times and reserved days; then he would just find another course to play.
Jerry added that most leagues have a guaranteed minimum, even if there are "no shows." Henry
commented that with being able to make tee times three days prior, maybe the first hour could be set
aside for league players to call in for specified tee times. It was decided by the Golf Board that Jerry
should bring in additional data on this topic and the Board would begin discussion of the issues.
These discussions will be scheduled on the Board agenda for several more months in a row.
Jerry reported in reference to the easement at Collindale, Gene Little and the City have reached
an impasse in negotiations. Mr. Little came to the City with a deal that he would improve the
property next to the rough on Collindale, and if the City gave him a 10' easement he would
build berms, irrigation, Swale, etc., and continue the maintenance of this area forever. The cost
for the easements will be $16,700 and Mr. Little is spending just more than $15,000 for
improvements and has asked for credit. Jerry said this area could be left in a rough state
forever, so the City may not accept Mr. Little's offer.
David Shands asked about the status of the new sewer project at SouthRidge? Jerry stated that
the developers are not proceeding very quickly. The City has informed them that no
construction of this line could occur from the middle of April through Labor Day. A memo
was distributed from Storm Drainage stating technical data on this project. The Miramont
development has already connected into the existing sewer line along SouthRidge and if they
go much further, they will need to proceed with new facilities.
Steve Garcia asked about the ownership of the fence along the 6th Fairway at Collindale?
Jerry replied that the fence is jointly owned by the golf course and neighboring residents and
travels back and forth across property lines. Medema Homes originally installed the fence
as the area was being built. As problems arose, we addressed the situations and have made
some repairs as they were needed.
Mike Sanders asked if there were any indications on the number of people who would be
bidding on the City Park Nine Pro RFP? Jerry stated that there would probably be five to
Golf Board Minutes
January 15, 1997
Page 6
nine proposals. The bids will open at 2:00 p.m. on Friday, January 17, and the review
committee will meet at 4:00 p.m. that same day.
Jerry brought to the attention of the Board the end of the year revenue for 1996, and the
end of the year expenditures for 1996, noting that the Golf Fund will use only $7,000 out
of Reserves. There may be some change to the final figures.
I.111LII17a iI�1►YY
A motion to adjourn the Goff Board meeting was made by David Shands and seconded by Tom
White. The motion was approved (9:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I
Golf Division
Meeting Attendance
:ON•IOLVAi r
Mindy Markley
Jerry P. Brown
Frank Blanco
Dan G. Bruntz
Byrd C. Curtis
Derek Cordova
Tom DeGrand
Jim Greer
Henry Fry
Alyce Nierman
Steve Garcia
Mike Sanders
David Shands
Tom White