Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 04/16/1997CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD MINUTES: Regular Meeting of April 16, 1997 CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bill Bertschy STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf and Alyce Nierman, Golf Division Administrative Aide. BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h). CALL MEETING TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:05 p.m. by Chairperson Mindy Markley. AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda. ITEMS OF NOTE: There were no items brought to the attention of the Golf Board. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: It was moved by Tom DeGrand, and seconded by Tom White, that the Board approve the minutes of the regular Golf Board Meeting of March 19, 1997, as presented. The motion was approved (9:0). CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation. Mike Sanders reported June 9 has been chosen for the spring clinic and distribution of golf clubs. He added that we have 600 to 700 usable clubs. We may be able to send kids home with 4-6 clubs depending on the sign up for the clinic. Sign up sheets will be available at all three of the municipal courses. We also may run ads in the paper, and information will be distributed through the school PE teachers. It was suggested that each Board member could take some flyers for distribution to schools in their part of town. Mike added that a couple of Board members could try being at the courses for the clinics. Mindy Markley agreed, stating that as the Golf Board we need to be at the clinics to show support for the total program. Mike has available a directory of the names of people at the schools who can be used for contacts. However, be sure to check in at the office first before wandering the halls of the school. Mike then mentioned that he had invited John Hanrahan of the Fort Collins Country Club to attend this evening to talk about a program they have in place at the Country Club. Mr. Hanrahan stated that the Golf Board Minutes April 16, 1997 Page 2 program he is speaking about is a caddy program. At a recent information and sign up session a combination of kids and parents numbering 500 attended. From that group he had 215 kids who showed an interest in caddying. John felt that maybe the City would be interested in starting up a caddy program as he has lots of kids who could be interested. His belief is that through the caddy program, kids learn integrity, honesty, and a work ethic. This also gets kids on the course and off the streets. He further noted that Colorado University each year awards 10 scholarships to caddies. Mindy asked if kids signing up for the program get more than learning the game of golf? John stated that the kids also get a positive influence from the golfers, who as a whole are a very good group of people. It was then asked if the golfers at the Country Club are using caddies? John said this program is well received and in the future they could probably use 100 kids. He added that the caddy program will not work without the full support of the golf professional. The rate could be $12.00 or more, plus tips and Mike noted that this is fairly comparable to a cart rental. John stated that there is no minimum age for caddies, they just need to be strong enough to carry clubs around the course. John added that the policy is first kid in is the first kid out until golfers get to the point where they request a certain caddy. Tom White asked if the kids just wait around when they are not caddying and John responded that when the kids are not caddying, they go around the course and pick up balls, rake sand, etc. John added that he requires the Club employees to use caddies when they play. He believes support of this program falls into whether you are in it for the game or in it for kids. Jerry P. Brown noted that a couple of things factor into implementation of a caddy program At public courses risk management is a major factor to be considered. Jerry believes this is a marvelous idea and the concept is great, but prior to implementation many steps would have to be taken. SPECIAL PRIVILEGES DISCUSSION Mindy Markley began the discussion asking that everyone should try to stay on schedule and follow the agenda as printed. The floor was turned over to Jerry P. Brown who stated that special privileges relate to anyone who receives discounts from nominal fees and/or who receives special tee times in advance. The Golf Board and staff have been looking at this for many months and at the last Board meeting four categories were defined for specific target discussions. The reason this topic is being discussed is two fold. In the not too distant fixture additional revenues will be needed for capital expenditures at the City -owned courses and when we need to raise money, we generally raise fees. However, prior to raising fees we first looked intemally at our current expenditures. During the last three years we have been trimming our budget tremendously and at this time about 98% of the Golf budgets are being spent on what is needed. The $1.8 million budget does not include golf pros or restaurant concessions as those are contracted out. Then we began a review of our revenue situation and it is noted that we are pretty low in comparison on fees charged locally. As to annual pass fees, we are about mid range. We have discussed fees and charges for many years. The other part is the people who play on our courses and are they all paying appropriate fees? The last time the Golf Board reviewed the issue of special privileges was in 1987. In reviewing the different scenarios it was found that SouthRidge is consistent with what is being offered up and down the front range at the newer courses, and the older courses are more likely to have special user groups. Golf Board Minutes April 16, 1997 Page 3 A. LEAGUES Jerry stated the first group to review are the unofficial leagues. Staff recommendations have been sent to the Board. When SouthRidge was brought on board there were no special considerations given. The Golf Board and staff decided several years ago to treat SouthRidge differently from City Park Nine and Collindale, and the debt service at SouthRidge would not be directly charged to users at other courses. It was only a couple of years ago where passes were allowed on a limited basis for use at SouthRidge at half green fees. Leagues are an integral part of SouthRidge. The Board has previously talked about league play at City Park Nine and Collindale. There are unofficial leagues currently at Collindale and they follow our regulations to the letter regarding tee times. The question to be addressed is whether we should make leagues official, and staff is recommending that official leagues be allowed beginning in 1998. At Collindale leagues would be able to book only 9-holes and the other 9-holes would be used for call -in and walk-in golfers. At City Park Nine leagues would be limited to playing during certain times and have a maximum participation of 36 golfers. There is currently an unofficial men's league playing on Thursday night at City Park Nine and it is recommended that they be allowed to stay. Frank Blanco asked if leagues can use punch cards for their play? Jerry said yes. Further, Frank wondered if leagues would eliminate times available for play by call -ins and walk-ons? Mindy Markley stated that as an individual golfer, she has had no problem getting on the course. Jerry noted that league play is guaranteed unless weather conditions make play hazardous. For example, Derek Cordova decides, with advice from the course superintendent, whether to close SouthRidge. A comment during this discussion was that most leagues are established for exclusive membership such as Kodak. However, anybody could start a league. Jerry stated that the question is whether the Board wants to recognize official league play at Collindale and City Park Nine? Citizen Doug Wyffels noted that 80-85% of their group (City Park Nine Thursday night men's group) pays green fees and are not pass holders. Henry Fry added that the amount of money collected from pass holders if pass use was eliminated from league play would be peanuts. Mindy noted that if leagues are recognized we would be talking about locking up to four nights for league play. Randy Bonneville noted that each league at SouthRidge has different size memberships. Jerry explained that City Park Nine participation was capped at 36 golfers as that would only block out general public use for about 1.5 hours. Mike Sanders noted that if leagues are allowed it is possible to have revenue predictability. Another facet would be cutting out pass use, but then it would be difficult determining what most affected revenue. Mindy asked if there are a lot of requests for leagues? Jerry stated that we occasionally receive these requests, but has not received one during the last year. A couple of years ago a group wanted to use a certain amount of tee times at Collindale each week (multiple week tournaments) and the Board felt this would be recognized league play and voted to not allow this practice. He restated that if leagues were allowed, 9-hole play would block out City Park Nine course totally and Collindale would only block out one-half of the course. Citizen Kathy Bohmont asked if revenue was needed, why are non- residents not asked to pay higher green fee? Mindy and Henry stated that the Golf Board has discussed this issue in the past and it will likely be reviewed in the future. Jerry noted that questions to be answered would be how far out we would place the resident perimeter and how would we enforce this rule. If our courses were full at all times, a non-resident rate would work. Golf Board Minutes April 16, 1997 Page 4 David Shands commented that it sounds like the Board needs to discuss whether to recognize official leagues or leave things as they are. Mindy added that the issue to her is not whether people are happy with the situation, but the Board is looking at possible revenue sources. David suggested leaving current unofficial leagues that are working in place. Henry stated that one option would be to allow league play only a couple of nights per week. Mindy likes the idea of a combination. Henry commented that this restricts time available for the general golfing public. David suggested further thought along those lines and bring ideas back for additional discussion. Jerry added that this is possible as a decision does not have to be made tonight. Mindy noted that in the past the Board has tried out policies for one year to see how things work and allows time for the collection of data. This is another option the Board has on the issue of league play. Henry noted that we don't have a policy against unofficial leagues, and technically anybody who wants to can form an unofficial league. Henry suggested that if a group wants to have leagues and blocked times, they should have a higher fee. Mindy asked what day has the highest play? It was responded that the high play time begins at 4:00 to 4:15 p.m. into the evening almost every night. This would translate that league play in the evening is not a major issue. Dale Smigelsky has observed that at City Park Nine after 4:00 p.m. there appears to be 80%-90% play by students. Former City Park Nine Assistant Golf Professional Stacy Neal added that play still stays up through the summer after school gets out. Mike Enright commented that he doesn't believe we should eliminate the working person by blocking times with league play. Doug Wyffels asked if there is a target amount of money that the City needs? Jerry responded that the Board is looking at all aspects. At this point we are checking to see if everything is OK prior to going to the golfers for more money for expenditures. Doug Wyffels, in clarification, observed that if there was another way to raise money for capital expenses, there would be no need for changing current league policies. Mindy asked the Board if we should leave this status quo or should it be reviewed further? Mike Sanders asked if everyone here tonight has had a chance to voice their opinion on this issue? As there was no additional comments, Henry Fry moved that the Golf Board not recommend any changes and keep the existing policy on league play in place. Byrd Curtis seconded motion and the Board approved the motion unanimously (9:0). B. CSU AND POUDRE SCHOOL DISTRICT Jerry stated that the existing policy has been in place with the Poudre School District for some time with no problems. The only change is weekend or holiday prime time tournament use. Jerry is suggesting a change by increasing the fee, and there is no reason to change the basic policy at this time. David asked if the school coaches have any problems with the changes presented by staff? Two coaches present at the meeting had no problems with the suggestions and they feel comfortable with the recommended increase in fees. The recommended fees were perfectly fair and in line with charges they pay at other courses. Henry asked if the coaches play at the high school matches? The coaches are always present in case something happens, and usually tee off in two groups, the first tee off and in the middle. It was added that the coaches are there for supervision, and the coaches are also present for rule interpretation, medical emergencies, etc. Mindy stated that in her opinion, the Golf Board should not change what is already set for the school district and Colorado State University. It was further noted that our City Council is very interested in youth programs and staff receives positive recognition from Council for our involvement in youth programs. After further discussion, Henry Fry Golf Board Meeting April 16, 1997 Page 5 moved that the Golf Board accept the recommendations from staff to keep the existing policy with Poudre School District and Colorado State University and, assuming there are no special conditions, add the change to increase fees charged for weekend tournament use. The motion was seconded by David Shands and approved unanimously (9:0). C. MEN'S AND WOMEN'S ASSOCIATIONS Regarding the Ladies' Day Policy, staff is recommending this be left status quo. The Wednesday morning time at City Park Nine does not cause any great impact, and the only question there is whether we should go to tee times or remain with a shotgun? Dale Smigelsky commented this should probably remain a shotgun start as this is seen more as a social event and is an important part of that group. He does not believe revenue will be increased much if this were changed as most times they have enough participation to have a group start on each hole. Byrd Curtis commented that some of the complaints he heard was that they were not filling up slots and he is glad to hear that they are full. Jerry added that it is agreed that if participation drops below 32, they will go to tee times. Henry asked if anyone has considered taking one day and having shotgun starts all day, starting every three hours? Collindale Assistant Golf Professional Stacy Neal commented that there were golfers at City Park Nine waiting to tee off immediately after Lady's Day. It was then moved by Mike Sanders and seconded by David Shands to retain the current policy on Ladies' Day without changes. The motion was approved unanimously (9:0). The next area of discussion is the Collindale Men's Association. Jerry has done a lot of research on this area and found that the policy we have is almost the same as what is being practiced at the Olde Course in Loveland. In addition, they have placed a cap of 80 golfers. Longmont and Greeley also have caps in place. As part of this discussion, the Board was informed that the Collindale Men's Association has nine weekend days where they have scheduled events between May and Labor Day. One area discussed was the potential use of some Saturday afternoon events, and maybe reviewing this to improve the revenue such as looking at charging tournament fees, but leaving everything else the same. Mindy suggested that before the Board discusses anything Mike Enright and Henry Fry share any comments they have from the men's association. Mike shared the view that donations from the association could cover any assessment of tournament fees for Saturday events. These donations would not necessarily be cash to the Golf Fund or the City, but doing something in -kind for the course. Mindy pointed out that this group of men really care about the course. After asking a lot of questions of the staff and other pros, it appears the real concerns is keeping the course available for public golfers. These men's association events would take anywhere from 1.5 hours to a worst case scenario of 4 hours, and basically amounts to two weekends a month. Henry stated that the Collindale Men's Association is not a closed group and any interested men can join. Mike Enright added that the only restriction is that women would not be admitted as members of this group. The first two events every year are for getting acquainted, and membership is not required at that time. However, other events require membership in the Collindale Men's Association. Occasionally members can bring a guest to tournaments. When asked by Jerry, Mike Enright stated that if there was a situation of low income or someone interested in joining who could not afford the association costs, the association would help out. Mindy asked if there were limits set for the Golf Board Meeting April 16, 1997 Page 6 tournaments? Mike Enright stated there are 120 people registered for this coming Sunday's tournament. He added that 80 participants is the average number of members who sign up for tournaments. Jerry stated that outside of the cap issue, staff suggests leaving things status quo, and probably look at the tournament participation cap issue at a later date to determine if the Board wants to put a cap on participation. Frank Blanco inquired about the number of tournaments and when they are played? Mike Enright responded that weekend tournaments could be either on a Saturday or Sunday, and are played during prime times. Mindy noted that she is impressed with the whole process and the associations at Collindale and SouthRidge with their passion and concern for their courses. Mike Enright stated that at the Collindale Men's Association meetings members comment that the course is good to us, and maybe we can do something for the course. After further discussion, Tom White moved that the Board leave the current policy intact and to review the issue of setting a cap on tournament participation for discussion at a later date. Tom DeGrand seconded the motion which was approved unanimously (9:0). D.OTHER Jerry stated that the Board has already reviewed the full list during tonight's meeting. It was then moved by David Shands that we leave the miscellaneous special privilege uses as they are stated at the present time. Mike Sanders seconded the motion and the motion was passed unanimously by the Board (9:0). Jerry requested that a clarification be made that any new special groups coming in after the motions made this evening would have to meet the established rules on golf course use and standard fees requirements. Steve Garcia moved that there be no new groups approaching the Golf Division for special use and consideration in scheduling tee times, and that there would be no additions to the defined groups discussed at this Golf Board meeting. Tom White seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously (9:0). Mindy Markley commented that this discussion was very stressful for some people, and basically very little was changed. She thanked everyone for all the hard work they did on providing information for these discussions. Jerry reported that the City Manager has received his memo on golf fees. What Jerry suspects will happen is Council will be given a list of previously funded enhancements that can be cut and Golf Fund money will be on that list. Last year, Council was given a similar list and they chose to make no cuts. Frank Blanco expressed his thanks to Randy Bonneville for having SouthRidge in such beautiful shape. The recent game Frank played was great and he was even able to play off the tee boxes. Jerry noted that tee boxes at Collindale and City Park Nine are out only on the weekends until the grass is in good shape. Mindy reported that there have now been three meetings with golf staff held at 1:00 p.m. the same day as the Golf Board meeting. One thing she has become very aware of is that we have some very Golf Board Meeting April 16, 1997 Page 7 smart people working for the Golf Division. Mindy restated her comment from previous meetings that these sessions are very informative and a person really learns what is happening on the courses. Today was the deadline for filing applications for appointment to the Golf Board and both of our eligible re -applicants have applied for appointment to Golf Board. �[D1Z11i1�`►iuTi�i►`Y Y A motion to adjourn the Golf Board meeting was made by Tom White and seconded by Henry Fry. The motion was approved (9:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide I Golf Division Meeting_ Attendance BOARD MEMBERS STAFF GUESTS Mindy Markley Jerry P. Brown Bob Burt Frank Blanco Randy Bonneville Shirley Hansen Byrd Curtis Stacey Neil Dottie Bourque Tom DeGrand Dale Smigelsky Shirley Hergenreter Henry Fry Alyce Nierman Mike Enright Steve Garcia Kathy Bohmont Mike Sanders Brent Hardy David Shands Sean Duff Tom White John Gausman John Schuh John Hanrahan Doug Wyffels