HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 06/18/1997CITY OF FORT COLLINS
CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES
GOLF BOARD
MINUTES: Regular Meeting of June 18, 1997
CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bill Bertschy
STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of golf, and Alyce Nierman,
Golf Division Administrative Aide
BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h)
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairperson Mindy Markley.
AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda.
ITEMS OF NOTE: No items of note at this time.
It was moved by Tom White, and seconded by David Shands, that the Golf Board approve the
minutes of the regular Golf Board Meeting of May 21, 1997, as presented. The motion was
approved (8:0).
CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: There was no citizen participation at this time.
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A. Review of June 9 Free Clinic
Mike Sanders reported that the June 9 clinic was a great success, and offered his thanks
for this successful event to the time and energy given by the golf pros. Jim Greer
distributed a report recapping the Collindale June 9 clinic. Mindy Markley presented
cookie trays to the three golf pros in appreciation for managing the clinics, and a small
stipend from the proceeds from last year's tournament was also distributed to them.
Jerry P. Brown reported that nearly 300 kids participated in the clinics. There were 112
kids who signed up at City Park Nine, 115 at Collindale, and 70 at SouthRidge. There
was also a great story in the Coloradoan along with a photograph of Frank Blanco.
Mindy asked if anyone had additional input or debriefing on the clinic? Dale Smigelsky
commented that it was quite overwhelming to have the number of participants that did
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June 18, 1997
Page 2
show up at the clinic. Jim Greer added that it would help if we had a definite count of
participants or maybe place a cap on the number of registrants. If it is known prior to the
event that 150 kids will be attending, it will allow the pro to have more staff available.
Jerry stated that the number of kids participating was very impressive, and suggested that
one solution may be to run the clinic over a couple of days. It is clear that we want to do
this again, but maybe manage activities a little better. Derek Cordova reflected that
holding activities on the same day is fine, but maybe hold morning and afternoon
sessions. Dale commented that we now have an idea of how many kids are interested and
we can plan for this in the future. If we know a large group will show, we can recruit
additional help.
Some ideas presented during discussion were to require pre -registration for clinic
participation and set a cutoff date for registration. However, if a child shows up who is
not registered, they will be allowed to participate. Mike commented that if the kids
enjoyed the clinic, they may show up for the play at later events. He suggested that we
encourage kids who received clubs to bring back the small clubs to be redistributed, and
they will then be issued the next larger club. Also discussed was the proposed play day
in July and noting that 300 kids would be a logistical and safety nightmare. One idea was
to encourage them to play in the August tournament. A way needs to be found to break
the 300 participants into more manageable groups. Discussion was held and ideas
considered on how to organize next year and one idea was to hold different clinics for
small kids, middle-aged kids, and older kids, and in turn get the older kids involved in the
tournament. Jerry observed that the more competitive kids will probably sign up for the
tournament. Henry stated the majority of the kids who were at the clinic at Collindale
had never even held a club and were not ready to play 18-holes. Jerry stated that he
views the tournament as the fund raiser and the clinic and play date were to give exposure
to golf.
Derek suggested that the staff at each course be allowed to set their own play dates that
work into their respective schedules. Mindy asked how much the Golf Board wants to
take responsibility for this project? The original goal was to make golf available to any
child who wanted to try, and this clinic accomplishes that goal. The question is, should
the Board continue with this program or focus on a fund raiser? Henry suggested holding
a skill play day at Collindale for kids 11 and under, and maybe set up a three -hole putting
course and a 20-yard shot chipping green. The only way to participate at this event
would be if a card was received in the mail. The emphasis on this day would be skill, not
a golf play deal. Mike suggested cards that are sent out could be thanks for participating
in the clinic and stating that if they enjoyed the day and wanted to continue, to contact
one of the three golf pros listed. Mindy agreed, stating our way of thanking the staff is to
let the golf pro get business from the return golfer. Mike added that the Golf Board needs
to get out of the golf instruction business and turn it back over to the golf pros. Jim Greer
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June 18, 1997
Page 3
thanked the Board for their help with the clinics and it was great receiving the promotion.
Mike suggested that next year's pool of money be distributed to the golf pros and they
can organize the clinic days.
Mike Sanders then moved that there not be a play date this year and turn the organization
and money for this activity over to the respective golf pro. David Shands seconded the
motion. Dale Smigelsky noted that City Park Nine has play days set up and the only way
juniors can play on these days is if they participate and go through a junior training
program. A vote was taken on the motion and it passed unanimously (8:0).
B. Discussion of August 8 Tournament
The tournament will have a shotgun start at 7:30 a.m. at SouthRidge. We are setting a
target of 132 players. Mindy Markley stated the cost this year is $156.00 per team,
$40.00 for adults, and $36.00 for juniors, and is up a little this year as the tournament is
being held at SouthRidge. It was asked who would be taking applications. Henry Fry
commented that as the golf pro has enough to do, the applications should be turned in to
Mindy. Mike Sanders added that sign up sheets will be available at each course. After
discussion, it was decided that each team should have at least one junior golfer (age 18 or
under) and not place a restriction on the older player. Tom DeGrand reminded the Board
that last year we talked about getting away from teams loading up with ringers. He
suggested limiting skill prizes to one per person. Jerry stated that two drink tickets will
be given to each golfer and other tickets will be distributed for door prizes. Jerry stated
that he, Mindy and Mike will work on the registration form. It was also noted that
August 1, 1997, will be the cutoff date. Mindy distributed a letter for sponsorships for
the tournament and asked that everyone bring back two sponsorships. Jerry stated that
the "Fort Collins Fore Kids" Tournament now has its own account set up for receiving
donations and designating funds.
A memo and detailed information was distributed to the Board by staff. Jerry brought two items
to the attention of the Board. The City Manger will be presenting his recommended budget to
City Council in early September. The budget will have final adoption on November 4. This year
we are preparing a two-year budget, so in 1999 there may be some minor revisions after a couple
of study sessions, then the budget will be adopted. The second item to be reviewed is golf
capital outlay. In the 1998 proposed budget only $60,000 is available for all capital
expenditures. If the surcharge is approved there will be $140,000 in additional funds available
for capital expenditures. Jerry briefly reviewed the full budget and then brought to the Board's
attention the list of capital requests from the different course superintendents. Some items listed
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June 18, 1997
Page 4
in 1998 will probably be bumped to 1999, and some 1999 items will probably be bumped to the
budget year 2000, or beyond. If any Board member has questions after they have had a chance to
review the figures, please call Jerry and he will be glad to help out.
I 0 13 NUTAi&A'
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Mindy Markley stated that the idea of a surcharge was originally brought up by golfers. Mike
Sanders asked if there was any realistic option other than passing these costs on to golfers? Jerry
stated that the only option is if these things are purchased, other items will have to be eliminated.
David Shands asked why we don't just increase green fees? Jerry responded that the bottom line
is that it will cost more to play here as we face more capital expenditures. Frank Blanco stated
his belief that the renovation/replacement of the Collindale Clubhouse should be funded by other
sources in addition to the Golf Fund.
Jerry stated that a potential option other than a surcharge in the Golf Fund would be to get a
supplemental enhancement from City Council similar to the arrangement we have on the
SouthRidge debt. Mike observed that the Golf Fund will probably never be in a situation where
we will not have to fund our own capital expenditures, and there will always be a new project.
Henry Fry asked how would we figure an equitable charge for annual pass holders? Jerry noted
that the Board has agreed and supported the fee structure as it is currently in place. Mindy echoed
that the Board did agree to the structure. She also noted that the average annual pass increase of
$67 for the surcharge works out to approximately $2.00 per week. David believes we are talking
about a small number of golfers. Henry added that people don't buy services like what we offer
from any other business for the price we are asking. Mike questioned what would be the
problem if a fee of $1 was collected each time a person came in to play? Byrd Curtis expressed
his dislike, as well as other golfers dislike, of paying each time they check in to play. Frank
commented that in previous days it was perceived that golfers had extra money to spend and
today the average golfer is from the working class and it is more difficult to pay extra fees.
Discussion centered on differences of paying one flat rate increase to annual pass purchases vs.
paying $1 for each time the golfer comes to the course to play.
Mindy asked if there was a way we could track card holders by number to determine which pass
holders played more than others? Our current system is not designed to count per card play.
Byrd stated that the golfers he has spoken with don't like the increased fee but are willing to pay
$67 annually if it will pay for the needed capital expenditures. Mike believes that the game of
golf is about effort, and he does not buy into the concept that it is too much trouble to put up $1
each time you go to the course. Henry stated that if there is a more equitable way to collect a
surcharge than collecting $1 each time a golfer checks in, then that plan should be presented.
Tom White commented that in listening to the conversation tonight regarding the number of
rounds played, he believes that the people are more upset that they are getting less of a good deal.
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June 18, 1997
Page 5
Frank asked about 18-holes vs. 9-holes and when it is counted as a round? Jerry stated that this
was a topic discussed extensively a couple of years ago, and is not relevant at this time. The fee
is charged each time there is a use of the facility whether it is 9-holes or 18-holes. Jerry added
that twilight users will also be paying the $1 fee and they may not even play a complete 9-holes.
Tom White stated that he believes Henry's idea is a more fair and equitable arrangement. Why
should an annual pass holder who plays 150 rounds annually pay the same $67 fee as the annual
pass holder who plays only 50 rounds? Mindy wondered if the group of golfers who sent letters
to Board member's homes would be willing to pay a little more as a convenience to not pay each
time they play? Jerry believes that most of these people play at least 80-100 rounds annually,
and at the rate of $1 each time they play, they will be paying an additional $80-$100 per year; so
an increase of only $67 is also a good deal for them.
Jerry asked if the Board wants to hold public meetings prior to taking a vote, or vote and then tell
the public what we have decided? Mindy wondered what happens if we make a decision and we
are then faced with citizens who voice their dissatisfaction to City Council during the budget
adoption process? Will we then have to revisit our decision as we did two years ago with fees
due to some citizen opposition? David asked why not just eliminate annual passes? Mindy
asked for a clarification of our choices. Jerry stated that the simplest way for collection from
annual pass holders would be to charge a flat $67 per pass, and Option B would be to charge $1
per round. Jerry stated his belief that $67 will be acceptable to golfers; it is the equity that is
being argued. Mike added to the comments made that he believes $1 per round is too cheap.
Henry suggested that a third option would be if someone were only concerned about the
convenience of not having to pay $1 each time they played, maybe they could pay $200 up front
to purchase the right to come in and only sign their pass number. Mike commented that he
perceives the only decision needed is whether to have some kind of payment up front vs. paying
each time you sign in for play. Mindy commented that this is not an issue of a giveaway or a
discount, but finding a way to finance needed capital improvements. Jim Greer stated it would
be very simple for the pro to account for the surcharge. When there are 300 people signed up for
the day, then $300 would be paid to the City. Mindy commented that if this is truly about
convenience, they will be receptive to paying a premium fee. If this issue is about cost, they can
choose to pay $1 each time. During discussion of the fees, a compromise was reached and the
amount decided was $150 as a "convenience" fee paid in advance, or $1 per round at the course.
Tom DeGrand asked about the feasibility of tracking the $1 and assurances that these funds will
be set aside for capital expenditures? Jerry stated that at the end of the year we can show how
the surcharge revenue was spent.
Byrd asked how we can get the word out on the need for these capital projects? Jerry suggested
that maybe a letter can be mailed to the annual pass holders listing the capital project needs and
costs for these projects in addition a short explanation about the needs. Henry stated that we
need to operate on the assumption that the Golf Fund will not be receiving funds for these needs
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June 18, 1997
Page 6
from other City revenue sources. Henry voiced concerns that we may be overlooking what Steve
Garcia stated at the last meeting. Jerry stated that he has not overlooked these comments, but he
felt going from a $0 surcharge to say a $3 surcharge would be too drastic and therefore has
recommended a $1 fee in 1998. This can always be reevaluated for 1999 or 2000 after we have
already started getting golfers used to paying a surcharge. David noted that any decision made
by the Board will never satisfy everyone. Byrd asked when this information would be made
public and collection would begin? Jerry said collection could begin January 1, 1998. Byrd
noted that his main concern is the Board making a decision tonight on fees prior to sending
information to golfers. Jerry stated that the Board needs to figure out what they want to do first,
then when we have something to work with, a letter can be drafted and sent out. Hopefully we
can get people to provide input at the July, August or September Golf Board meetings rather than
showing up at City Council sessions stating that we never shared information with them. The
letter can also state that unless the Board hears differently, that this is what we will be
recommending to City Council.
Mike Sanders moved that the Golf Board recommends the establishment of a surcharge to be
collected and designated for capital expenditures. It was added that at the discretion of the golfer
this surcharge could be paid at the rate of $1 each time they signed in for play or $150 could be
paid up front at the time the annual pass was purchased. There would be no difference between
adult, junior, or super senior in collection of this surcharge amount. Tom White seconded the
motion. The floor was opened for discussion of the motion. It was stated that in no way is this
surcharge to be confused or construed as a "Per Play Fee" for annual pass users. A call for the
question was made and a vote was taken on the motion. Frank Blanco voted against the motion
as he does not believe golfers should have to pay for all capital expenses. Byrd Curtis abstained
from voting on the motion based on his belief that the $150 amount used in the motion was not
fully investigated. Board members Mindy Markley, Tom DeGrand, Henry Fry, Mike Sanders,
David Shands, and Tom White voted in favor of the motion. The motion passed (6-1-1).
Jerry commented that Mindy Markley received a letter from Bill Bertschy, City Council
Member/Golf Board Liaison. Mindy and Jerry will be meeting with Bill some time in
July and Mindy asked the Board if they had any concerns they would like to have
discussed during this meeting? Jerry noted that his main concern is that the Golf Division
maintains what is currently in place.
The dedication ceremonies for the Bill Metier Garden and Fountain at Collindale Golf
Course will be held at 5:00 p.m. on Saturday, June 28. After the dedication, Liz Metier
will be having a get together in the clubhouse.
Randy Bonneville reported that the current water heater at the SouthRidge Clubhouse
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June 18, 1997
Page 7
does not meet city code requirements. If it must have the minimum clearance from the
floor, it could involve extensive renovation or remodeling of the clubhouse building.
Randy will keep the Board posted on any developments.
A motion to adjourn the Golf board meeting was made by Tom White and seconded by David
Shands. The motion was approved (8:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
BOARD MEMBERS
Mindy Markley
Frank Blanco
Byrd C. Curtis
Tom DeGrand
Henry Fry
Mike Sanders
David Shands
Tom White
Respectfully submitted,
Alyce D. Nierman, Administrative Aide I
Golf Division
STAFF
Jerry P. Brown
Randy Bonneville
Derek Cordova
Jim Greer
Dale Smigelsky
Alyce Nierman