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HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 09/16/1998CITY OF FORT COLLINS CULTURAL, LIBRARY, AND RECREATIONAL SERVICES GOLF BOARD MINUTES: Regular Meeting of September 16, 1998. The meeting was held at the Collindale Golf Course Clubhouse, 1441 East Horsetooth Road. CITY COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE BOARD: Councilman Bill Bertschy STAFF SUPPORT TO THE BOARD: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf at 221-6350, and Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide. BOARD CHAIRPERSON: Mindy Markley at 224-9102 (w) or 226-2700 (h). CALL MEETING TO ORDER: The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Chairperson Mindy Markley. AGENDA REVIEW: There were no changes to the printed agenda. ITEMS OF NOTE: Jerry P. Brown reported that Board Member Tom White was unable to attend this Board meeting. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: It was moved by Tom DeGrand, and seconded by Mike Sanders, that the Golf Board approve the minutes of the Regular Meeting of August 19, 1998, as presented. The motion was unanimously (8:0) approved. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION: Mindy Markley asked that any citizens wishing to bring topics to the attention of the Golf Board other than items already scheduled on the agenda to speak at this time. Harvey Riley, referencing an article in the Coloradoan, stated that there was a $2.5 million surplus in the City budget that was collected from taxes. As golfers, we add a little more to this due to purchases made at the golf courses. Quoting from the article Mr. Riley noted that, "Tabor requires cities to use excess funds for public health, safety, transportation, etc, public facilities". Further, Mr. Riley believes the Golf Board should approach City Council and request that funds be used on our public golf facilities. He asked the citizens present if they were approached by the Board when financial meetings were held? He then stated that after retirement he never felt he would be back to playing only two times each week, but the proposed fee schedule is forcing him to restrict his play. Mr. Riley added that his belief is that the cost of season passes can be increased and money can be saved up for the initial purchase, but he can't put away $48.00 a Golf Board Minutes September 16, 1998 Page 2 week for every time he wants to play golf. Marsha Odell asked if bikers and walkers pay fees to use the various trails around the city? It was felt there were no specific fee assessed for use of trails in the city. Gilbert Fechner asked if the Golf Board had considered the possibility of a bond issue to cover capital expenses? The Golf Board has not discussed that specifically? However, Mindy stated that Jerry P. Brown did answer that question at the meeting last month and he would need to answer that question this evening also. In answer to Mr. Fechner's question, Jerry stated that bonds can be issued for other types of improvements, but costs for certain types of improvements relating to operation and maintenance issues are not allowed. The Board would more than likely be looking at a bond issue when considering the Collindale Clubhouse replacement. With the particular grouping of capital issues being presented now, we would not be allowed to have a bond issue to cover most expenses. Gordon Gartner began by saying he agrees with the comments made by Harvey Riley, and does not want to be redundant. He requested time to read a letter that he wrote and sent to City Council regarding fees and charges. John Siglowsky commented that when he came to Fort Collins the fees were $35 per year, and when figuring out the costs to him, the increase would be closer to 40%. Mindy stated that comments made at this time should address issues other than finances, which will be discussed under a later agenda item. This time is set aside to allow the public an opportunity to participate in that manner. Dale Wolaver commented, as other golfer have, that the issue of maintenance has been extensively discussed. Further, he noted that our courses are quite well maintained today, and the issue of maintenance is untimely, frivolous or phony. It is not believable that there is a critical maintenance problem today. The proposed rate increase will deprive many people the same level of enjoyment they currently experience. Mr. Wolaver further suggested that this Board is not interested in golfers playing the game today, and there is an absolute disregard of people playing. It was asked if the Golf Board sees golf as an elitist sport? The extension of that is the belief that all expenses for running golf should come from the players. The question was then asked, "What other recreational activity in Fort Collins has to pay for a full ride?" Jerry Stahmer asked how many of the Golf Board members play golf two times each week? There was a show of hands. At this point Mindy Markley commented that since people obviously wanted to discuss fees and charges, we will move on to the next agenda item. PUBLIC INPUT ON PROPOSED 1999 GOLF FEES AND CHARGES It was noted that Dan MacArthur from the City's Neighborhood Resources Office has been asked to attend this evening's meeting to facilitate the public input segment on Proposed Fees and Charges. Mindy Markley began the public input segment on the Proposed 1999 Golf Fees and Charges with a statement that she is in the current position because she cares about golf in the community. Mindy then gave a brief overview of golf in the City and the background of the Golf Division. She said the Golf Board deals with a lot of different issues like automated tee times, Golf Professional and Concessionaire Agreements, junior golf, etc. There are 11 to 12 meetings each year, and if there are more issues to be considered than scheduled meetings, we hold additional meetings or appoint a subcommittee to review the topic and return with a report r. lWnn.,A M;n"f>c • • September 16, 1998 Page 3 or recommendation to the Board. It has been noted that with all these meetings throughout the year, we only get to meet the golfers at the meetings involving fee discussions. We are all here tonight because we care about this subject. We have discussions all year long that bring us to this topic tonight, and each year we spend a lot of time going over things that may not be necessary. So it was decided to take the first fifteen minutes of time to review what has happened in the past. Mindy stated that we rely on a lot of mediums to notify the public of issues being discussed by the Board. There are nine Board members who are appointed by City Council through an extensive application/interview process. It was further noted that Board members receive no financial subsidy and do not receive free golf rounds. In addition, Mindy clarified that there are term limits for Board membership of two four-year terms, and a person could be appointed to complete an unexpired term. We try to listen to the needs of all golfers, and also listen to the needs of our courses. After weighing this information and extensive discussions, we make recommendations to the Golf Division, City Manager, and City Council that we feel will insure good, available golf to our public. This brings us to the topic of fees and charges. Every year we come to this point. As the Golf Board we must deal with situation as it currently is set up. The Board has to look at what our financial situation is, and not what we want it to be. The Golf Fund has to be 100% self-supporting, and we do not pay for other recreation or projects in Fort Collins. We are different from private business in that if something breaks, since we are connected to the City, we can't just run to the bank for a loan. When the pump went out at Collindale Golf Course, we asked City Council for assistance. At that time we received funds from the General Fund for the "community value of golf." However, we were also told this would be "for a while". For the last several years the Golf Fund has been receiving an additional $43,000-$48,000 for the community value of golf. The budget process begins with the Manager of Golf developing a budget to meet the projected expenses. This budget is brought to the Golf Board. The Board compares the budget presented to the average amount of play and makes recommendations on fees needed to meet the budgeted expenses. There were some years where fees were not increased. During the last couple of years we tried to develop increases based on percentages. We have heard comments that this worked, so why do we need to change it? As it turned out the pump at Collindale needed replacement and we couldn't wait. Past capital outlay was reviewed and it was determined that items with a 3 to 10 year life expectancy usually cost less than $50,000. The capital items that have a 10 to 25 year life expectancy range in cost from $100,000 to $1,000,000 or more, and we had not dealt with these big ticket items for quite a while. Some of the main issues that need to be addressed are our courses are older and the base systems need replacement. These costs can run from $100,000 on up. A few of the needed projects cost over $1,000,000. The history of SouthRidge was reviewed when the City was left with the financial responsibility. Options discussed included selling the course and closing up operations, but it was decided that the Sales and Use Tax Fund and Golf Fund would share the responsibility and have a 50150 split between the golfers and the City. When the SouthRidge debt is paid in a couple of years we will have an additional $150,000, but some items cannot wait for a couple of years to be funded. In the year 2003, the Golf Fund will have those additional funds available and we will reassess fees prior to that time. Golf Board Minutes September 16, 1998 Page 4 Before any fee increases were recommended, the Board started looking within the existing structure and decided to first make sure our own house was in order. Then all the special usage groups (men's associations, ladies associations, schools, etc.) were contacted, and we asked them to tell us how many tournaments and events they planned to have at the City's golf courses. Quite a bit was clarified through this process. The Board next reviewed the capital outlay needs and requests. We are not a country club, and virtually all the capital items listed are things needed to just run the courses well for our golfers. These needs are for the day to day operation of the courses, such as mowers, pumps, irrigation systems, etc. The Board then looked at the basic fee structure including juniors, seniors, and regular golfers. It was decided to have juniors stay in the formula. Senior golfers and all other special needs people were added and we went back to the budget and reviewed what could be done with Annual Pass fees and daily Green Fees. After a lot of debate, a figure could not be agreed to on the number of rounds each annual pass person plays, so it was decided to offer a variety of discounts and let the golfers review the structure and decide what best fits their specific needs. It was further felt that some of the tension could be alleviated if rate increases were alternated each year. Also after public input, it was decided to review rates for out-of-town golfers, safety issues of two holes at SouthRidge (obtaining the land starting the process), and the irrigation system at Collindale, as we can't wait until it breaks. Mindy personally does not want her fees raised, but the Golf Fund needs to raise more money to meet the needs. Some basic public concerns and reports have been received by the Golf Board. Based on the structure we have been given, the Board believes we came up with the best solution. One particular group still had some concerns and a meeting was held last year. An outcome of this meeting was a study being made on the fees and charges for area golf, and it was found that Fort Collins was in the low end of the spectrum. We are sorry that fee increases have not been raised more gradually over a period of years, but we are at the point now where we cannot wait until things are changed. The Board must deal with the fact that we are an Enterprise Fund and are required to cover expenses. On May 26, the Golf Board met with City Council and made a presentation showing the value of our courses, the community value of golf, the financial structure of the Golf Division and our needs. The meeting was then opened up for discussion and a question and answer period. Council asked, "why golfers are not paying the full SouthRidge debt?" Mayor Azari has stood by us for many years and we were told that for now Council has let that subject go. Another suggestion made was to bring in an outside management company and let them rum our courses. If this avenue is chosen, the courses would be run fully like a business and they would ram it to make a profit. A third item brought up for discussion was the community value of golf money the Golf Fund receives. During this Study Session, it was learned that Council members are not saying golf is not worthy. City Council was stating that they don't have the money to give to golf as there are more serious issues that need to be addressed. City Council views things on a problematic scale; streets, police, library, etc., and golf is not viewed as a problem issue. When it finally gets down to golf, Council just does not have the money. After the meeting Mindy asked about other recreational programs receiving funding. It was responded that those programs are also planned for review. At this time City Council is staying with the agreement made on the SouthRidge debt. However, at the end of 2002 they want the Golf Fund to be a full Enterprise Fund (sooner if possible). Discounts should only be given out on a true need basis, and we should develop a fee policy that takes future needs into account. Many letters and phone Golf Board Minutes • • September 16, 1998 Page 5 calls have been received from golfers regarding this issue, and after extensive research, we believe what is being presented is the best for the total golfing community. Mindy concluded that we can return to City Council and request additional money, but we need to pool our energies, quit attacking each other, and work as a whole. As a Board we need support and ideas on how to get Council to support us and our needs. Dan MacArthur introduced himself and added that he is here to keep things moving along. He asked that we try to keep away from any personal attacks. The basic rules are that comments and ideas are not personal, try to keep comments brief, and let everybody finish their thoughts. Dan added that Jackie Rael from Cultural, Library, and Recreational Services/Administration will scribe and Golf Board Secretary Alyce Nierman will take the Board minutes, also recording citizen comments. All the comments made tonight will be sent to the City Manager, and he will be making the final decision on fees. Gordon Gartner read a letter he wrote to City Council. He has attended some Golf Board meetings and he was given the understanding that the Golf Fund was to be fully self-sufficient, and he asks himself "Why?" The Board has gone before City Council and tried to persuade them, and he thinks Mindy Markley did a remarkably good job in communicating this to Council. However, he still believes the attitude is "God Has Spoken". City Council should be educated to the idea that the Golf Fund does not have to be self-supporting. Dale Wolaver realizes the bind the Golf Board is in, and the Enterprise Fund status was probably set up at a time when golf was a more elitist sport. However, there is not quite a diverse group of users, but he expects there is the misconception that golfers are still an elitist group. He still questioned the issue of maintenance needs at our golf courses as they appear to be in relatively good shape. There is a strong conviction, but no credible evidence, that the courses are not well maintained. One additional comment made was his feeling that the proposed fee structure will deprive some people the ability to play as much as they have. Harvey Riley asked why his previous comments were not recorded on the easel? He also asked when the fees and charges would go to City Council for final adoption? Jerry noted that a couple of years ago Council voted to change the way fees and charges are approved. It was decided the City Manager would have final responsibility in approval of fees and charges. Mindy added that the Board makes recommendations based on information and requirements affecting us. A report on these recommendations is then submitted to the City Manager for approval. Mr. Riley feels the Golf Board should notify golfers what is going on. Mindy stated that all City Boards and Commissions are appointed to represent the different areas and constituencies. They are given the responsibility to make recommendations on policies and fees for their respective areas and make their recommendations to Management and/or City Council. Marcia Odell asked when the next City Council meeting is scheduled. Jerry replied that the next meeting of City Council is scheduled for October 6 at 6:00 p.m. and all Council meetings are open to the public. She then commended the Golf Board for their efforts and dealing with the requirements set for them. However, she added that golfers' hands are not tied and we have to present our ideas directly to Council. Jerry Stahmer asked if there are other Enterprise Funds in the City structure? Mindy replied that the other Enterprise Funds are Utilities. Jerry Stahmer further commented that at a recent meeting regarding a request for a zoning change, first the City Golf Board Minutes September 16, 1998 Page 6 representative gave an elaborate presentation, then 52 citizens/neighbors presented their views on this requested change. After this input, Council did not even bring the issue up for vote, and proceeded with their own recommendations. He doesn't hold much hope that Council will accept recommendations made by a Board. Gilbert Fechner would like to be sure that a bond issue is seriously considered for capital expenditure needs. Henry Fry commented that several years ago every Board and Commission of the City was asked to make a presentation to Council on why additional money was needed. At that time three Golf Board members made a presentation. It was made clear at that time other projects had been ranked higher in need and that Golf is not a high priority. Mindy noted that the May 26 meeting with City Council was taped and copies of these tapes can be checked out for viewing. John Siglowski commented that the irrigation system at SouthRidge is only 14 years old. Further, there are places on the course at Collindale where it is so wet a person can't play decently. Why would replacement of the irrigation at SouthRidge be placed higher than the system at Collindale? Henry noted that when the irrigation systems were installed, Collindale basically had a Cadillac and SouthRidge received a Ford. Roger Vanderslice then asked for an explanation why the "No Per Play Fee" pass was eliminated? Mindy stated that there was a lot of discussion on that topic, and it was felt this was a convenience issue for a lot of people. However, the Board deals with issues that affect all golfers, and we were unable to come up with a figure that both the Board and the community was comfortable with. So a plan was developed where everybody would pay a fee each time they came to the course to play. Roger Vanderslice commented that with the Per Play Fees he probably will not be able to play as much and believes the elimination of that pass type was a wrong move. Mindy added that it truly came down to the fact the Board was unable to come up with a plan that was acceptable to all. Henry noted that with the initiation of Per Play Fees for all passes, the base cost of the Annual Pass goes down. Claire Nelms stated that in bad weather years the Golf Fund can still make interest on the money received in January for pass sales. Ms. Nelms also asked if the age could be changed for the super senior as 80 seems out of line. Jerry stated that a couple of years ago, the designation of "senior" was eliminated from Annual Passes and changed to a restricted rate that was for passes used only during Non -Prime times. He noted that most Annual Passes are renewed in March and by that time expenses exceed the interest that could be earned on pass revenue. Golf Fund revenue never exceeds expenses until May or June. Mike Sanders noted that at today's rates, approximately $600 could be generated in interest. James Snyder asked if the fees proposed on the available literature would be the recommendation of the Golf Board? Mindy responded that this topic would be discussed by the Golf Board after the public input session and a recommendation will be voted on at that time. Mr. Snyder then asked if different rates for golfers from out of town had been considered and if anyone knew how many golfers that would affect. He further commented that a $5.00 surcharge should be initiated for Non -Resident golfers. Mike stated that the Golf Board is taking into consideration setting a Non -Resident Fee. Based on numbers from 1979 through 1986, when an annual average of under 2,000 rounds were played by non residents, Jerry estimated an additional $10,000 could be raised by establishing a Non -Resident Green Fee. It was noted that sometimes the pro shop staff is busy. Henry commented that the delays at the counter was one major factor why the Non - Resident rate was discontinued; it was more hassle than it was worth. Jerry added that at the same time there were several new courses and we were not filling up our time slots. Henry Golf Board Minutes • • September 16, 1998 Page 7 commented that in recent years we have been marketing in an effort to bring out of town golfers to Fort Collins to play. Then during this past year we have been hearing many comments that we need to charge non-resident golfers an extra fee. Currently there are no Non -Resident Fees charged in Fort Collins, Loveland or Greeley. Mindy added that Fort Collins is the largest municipality in Northern Colorado and we have to consider people who live in LaPorte, Wellington, Bellvue, etc, and we need to discuss ways to deal with residents of those communities. There was a general feeling expressed from the citizens present that it appears the City is trying to eliminate passes altogether. Henry commented that when this project started 4 to 5 months ago, the question was raised on whether or not to eliminate Annual Passes. It was determined at that time that no one wanted to eliminate Annual Passes. However, we do want the Annual Pass user to pay a more equitable share of the costs. Also Council made it clear to the Golf Board that the Annual Pass was clearly giving discount rates during prime time hours, and they stated their belief that this is not a smart operational practice. Doug Wyffels agreed with the statement made by Henry, but was wondering if there is a way to accommodate people who come after twilight and play six or less holes. Jerry informed everyone present that Monday through Thursday at Collindale and City Park Nine is Non -Prime Time all day long, and checking in at 6:00 p.m. those days would cost $2.00 when using a pass. It was then asked if the same policies on Prime Time and Non -Prime hours could also be instituted at SouthRidge? Jerry noted that currently no pass use is allowed at SouthRidge during Prime Time hours. The $200,000 annual payment toward the SouthRidge debt comes mainly from a higher fee charged golfers who use SouthRidge. This is accomplished by limiting the time frame for Non -Prime pass use. This makes golf available mostly for seniors who have time off. It was asked if early morning hours could be added to that time allotment? Mindy stated that the Board has discussed this many times and voted not to increase the hours when passes are available for use at SouthRidge. Dale Wolaver asked if the Golf Board recognized that certain citizens are being deprived rounds of golf under the proposed fee structure? Mindy responded that as a golfer, she may not like the structure, but still wants to be able to play golf on good courses. Gordon Gartner commented that he is not certain he would go along with a special out of town fee as it smacks of a protective tariff. He added that he has not come across Non -Resident fees at other courses in the area. They may have higher fees, but also have extremely good specials. Mr. Gartner further commented that Fort Collins could be facing an area of diminished return where golfers will more than likely play at other courses in the area rather than purchase the higher fee pass. Mr. Gartner stands fully behind the philosophy that the City tax structure, in large part, should subsidize Golf Fund capital expenditures. He complimented Mindy for her well organized presentation, and feels it diffused a lot of heat. Bill Rutledge commented that he was surprised when information came to him that EPIC was built in the 80's and a special interest group got things going at that time. Because of another group's activities, Lincoln Center was built. These facilities are both great assets to the community. Bill complimented Mr. Gartner on the points he brought up in his letter. The decision made 20+ years ago is not in concrete, but it takes a voice of the people and media to persuade and influence changes. Byrd Curtis asked when the City Manager will make his decision on golf fees? Jerry stated a decision on the fees will probably be made within the next Golf Board Minutes September 16, 1998 Page 8 month. Jerry Stahmer asked when citizens may ask City Council about the Enterprise Fund status of Golf? Jer y stated that City Council meets the first and third Tuesday of every month at 6:00 p.m. and citizens may pose questions to City Council during the Citizen input segment of the agenda. Council may not be able to answer the question that evening, but they will get answers and respond to the citizen raising the question. Mindy thanked everyone for coming tonight to voice their concerns. It was stated that the Board will make more of an effort to come to you, but we would like to request the same from our citizens. Mindy stated that at this time the Golf Board would take a break before going on the next agenda items. Everyone was invited to remain for the upcoming discussions and agenda items. The Golf Board meeting broke at 9:10 p.m. GOLF BOARD FINAL RECOMMENDATION ON 1999 GOLF FEES AND CHARGES The Board meeting reconvened at 9:25 p.m. Jerry P. Brown began this area of discussion by clarifying who is responsible for various steps in the decision process. As it is set up now, the City Manager has the final approval of fees and charges. Historically City Council would get a resolution and they would then approve fees and charges, but two years ago Council voted to relinquish that and gave fee approval to the City Manager. City Council will not become involved in fee decisions unless requested to do so by the City Manager. The City Council would be involved in policy approval, such as the classification of Golf as an Enterprise Fund. Frank Blanco asked if City Council could override the City Manager's decision? It was also asked how people can reach and voice their opinions to John Fischbach? Jerry stated that comments made during the meetings we are holding is an excellent way to get views and feelings to Mr. Fischbach as copies of all minutes and comments are forwarded to him for his review. If Council feels he has made a wrong decision, they will contact him. Jerry then stated that at the June Golf Board meeting, after recapping all input that was available, the Board voted to approve the fees and charges as recommended. A brief review of the previous decision establishing only two pass distinctions, Restricted and Unrestricted, and charging Per Play Fees for all pass users. It was then stated that at this point the Board can vote to reaffirm their previous recommendation or they can make changes and vote to recommend different fees and charges. Henry Fry moved that the Golf Board recommend that the 1999 Golf Fees and Charges be approved as stated with the exception that a Non -Resident Fee of $2.00 for 9-hole and $4.00 for 18-hole rounds during Prime Time hours be instituted and take effect on January 1, 1999. Included in the motion is that a Non -Resident be classified as stated in the memo from Jerry P. Brown. Mike Sanders seconded motion Byrd Curtis referenced the surcharge instituted last year, and now this year we are raising those fees again. The question was asked if this would result in an extra $140,000? Jerry stated that in 1998 we did add a $1.00 charge for everybody, and it is felt that additional money is needed and the recommended fees will bring in more money. The net result is we would be raising $280,000 for Capital. Byrd commented that there is now a motion to adopt the fee recommendation, and he heard no one in the meeting say "let's go ahead." Jerry acknowledged that Byrd is right. These citizens did not tell us to go ahead. He has heard two issues brought up: 1) we need to establish Non -Resident Fees; 2) taxpayers should also be supporting Golf. City Council appoints n.,wn., A 7.e:...d.c 0 • September 16, 1998 Page 9 the Golf Board to make recommendations on golf issues, and fees and charges are one issue addressed each year. The Board can always decide not to raise the fees, but the needs will still be present. Byrd agreed that Mindy did diffuse some antagonism, but he feels we are still not addressing concerns raised by the citizens. Mindy noted that citizen concerns were heard, but we need to address the financial needs of the Golf Division. The hope is that we have people angled in the right direction. The needed money is not going to come from somebody else. Byrd shared the feeling that it was hoped the $140,000 collected from the Surcharge this year would be enough. Frank added that the impression a lot of people get is that everything is already packed up. Citizens come in and share with us their feelings, but feel their time is wasted in coming to US. Bill Rutledge agrees that we have to have a balanced budget, however, he hopes that we can include a minority report from the Board stating that philosophically we are considered the same as a Utility fund, but he believes that we should be viewed as a recreational program. He strongly feels this view needs to get to the City Manager that we are not in sync with him. Further, these feelings need to be in writing and the statement needs to be signed. Mike Sanders agrees that we need to send that message, but is concerned it may have a negative impact. One of our strongest supporters (Ann Azari) is not running for re-election, and Mike is not aware of any other City Council member who even plays golf. If we become too negative, we could rock the boat where we don't even get what we are receiving at this time. Bill observed that there are enough golfers out there that should go forward and put themselves on the line and state they feel we are going in the wrong direction. Mindy asked how this would be presented to the City Manager? Jerry stated that Mr. Fischbach will receive a memo and a copy of the minutes from this meeting and last month's meeting. Jerry added that members would have to represent themselves as individuals or a separate group as he won't participate. Mike agrees with Byrd and Bill that we need to let Council know we are tied, and to the best of our knowledge, we are the only group buying a capital asset and then turning it over to the City. Jerry asked if the Board felt they could state these feelings to Council when we made our presentation to them in May? Bill responded that he felt he could comment on the community value of golf but did not feel he had the prerogative to stand up and challenge the Enterprise Fund status of Golf. He felt that our mandate was to establish Board credibility with City Council, but never felt we could challenge Golf Fund status. Golf should not be considered the same as a Utility. When the Board went to the Study Session with Council, we did not bring that issue up. Bill feels it would be easier to draft a cover letter talking about policy. This could be written as a minority group, or as majority, but it should also be stated that we basically have a disagreement with how Golf is viewed in the community. Mindy stated that a couple of key things were accomplished. The first part of the job was to show City Council that the Golf Board is a responsible group. The second part was to get the community to understand that the Board is not the enemy, and we are required to follow certain procedures and criteria. Mindy added that we have to deal with the fact what we are not like everyone else in the structure of Fort Collins government. It is the understanding of staff that all municipal courses north of Denver are enterprise funds, and to Jerry's knowledge, no course is receiving any subsidy for golf. Golf is being treated similarly in all municipalities. Bill then pointed out that when Fort Collins endorsed the use of soft spikes, no one else was following that Golf Board Minutes September 16, 1998 Page 10 policy. So the argument that everybody else does this does not hold water. If we believe this is not equitable, we need to state that a change is needed. It is their prerogative to say NO, but then they are putting themselves on line. Mindy suggested that the Board fine tune the fees and charges and make our recommendation to the City Manager, then we can address the issue of a letter to City Council on the Golf Fund status. Jerry stated for clarification on the Non -Resident issue that staff does not support a Non -Resident Fee. However, at the last Board meeting Jerry was asked to prepare an option for the Board to choose or not at this time. Henry asked that his motion be amended to include that the Non - Resident Fee would be collected for a trial period of one year to see if the collection of the fee would cause more problems than value. Mike Sanders seconded the amended motion. Bill asked why the Non -Resident Fee is only being charged during Prime Time? Mindy commented that there is no problem filling Prime Time hours on the weekends, but we currently do not fill the Non -Prime tee times. Mindy also understands from the staff that they are not comfortable charging an additional fee for Non -Residents. Collindale Golf Professional Jim Greer voiced his concern that our courses are not at capacity at this time and by establishing a Non -Resident Fee, we would only be discouraging golfers from coming to Fort Collins courses. Jerry gave a brief overview of previous Non -Resident fees, and reasons why this practice was discontinued. Henry commented that if everyone had to stand in line while we checked ID's, there would be a large cry to eliminate Non -Resident Fees. Bill asked why we would be requiring golfers to present an ID? When he has played at courses in Denver, he has not been asked to present an ID card. The question was asked when checking in, and then they took the word of the golfer. Bill suggested that we don't put the burden on the back of the golf pro to check ID's. Mike reminded that comments made at the last meeting is that citizens believe a Non -Resident Fee increase will decrease other fees. Mindy noted that a lot of requests made by citizens we are unable to do, and this is one we can do that shows we are trying to be responsive to their needs. Jerry added that $2.00 and $4.00 is a reasonable rate to charge out -of- town golfers. In addition, when Non -Resident Fees were collected, we probably did not check ID's that closely. Bill commented that we are trying this in good faith, and collecting the fee and statistics for one year is not demanding too much. Board discussion centered on the difference of posting the different fees for residents and non-residents. It was felt by golf pro staff present that collecting the different fees would not be a big burden unless golfers were requested to present ID's. Bill commented that he is only suggesting that ID cards not be requested when asking about residency. Jerry noted that Aurora and Denver have a common tee card that identifies whether a golfer is local or a non-resident. Mike asked how the pro shop should handle a situation if they absolutely know they are being lied to. The pro shop would be instructed to accept the word of the golfer, and report this to the Manager of Golf. Jerry asked about the memo that was presented on Non -Resident Fees as it stated that ID's would be required. There was a friendly amendment to the motion to change the reference in the memo regarding ID requirements. The entire motion and amendments were then approved by Board vote of (6:2). The two Board members in opposition were Byrd Curtis and Frank Blanco. Board discussion at this time was turned to composing and sending a letter to City Council regarding the Enterprise Fund issue and Golf. Bill shared his belief that a letter stating these Golf Board Minutes • September 16, 1998 Page 11 views would carry more impact if it is submitted along with the fee package. The letter should state that philosophically there is disagreement with the current method of operation. Mindy asked Bill to draft a letter that can be presented to City Council and bring back to the Golf Board for input. Henry asked if it was felt the comments made tonight are reflective of the golfing community. Bill commented that statements made tonight are just the tip of the iceberg and most golfers agree with the sentiments expressed. Bill added that he would draft a statement and bring it to the Board for input and adjustments before it is signed and sent. Frank commented that the biggest complaint he receives is on what is perceived as mickey mouse charges of $1.00 and $2.00. Jerry noted that the Golf Board agenda for the October 21 meeting will include an item for discussion of the Enterprise Fund Status of the Golf Fund. PUBLIC INPUT ON PROPOSED COLLINDALE SNACK BAR CONCESSIONAIRE AGREEMENT EXTENSION Two letters were received prior to tonight's meeting and Jerry shared these letters with the Board. In addition, two more letters and an e-mail were received. One unsigned complaint regarding the cleanliness of the facility was also received. When the contract was originally signed, it was a partnership, and after the separation the ex -partner has had many negative comments to make about Mr. Wilcox's operation. Mindy asked for any comments from the Board. Henry Fry stated that he has talked with Bill Rutledge and it was agreed that we still needed to obtain public comments and return to the Board at the October meeting with a recommendation. Kevin Wilcox has agreed to work with the time limits presented. Further, he is more than willing to meet and address any concerns that are brought to the attention of the review committee. Jerry noted that he is in support of what was stated by Kevin. Jerry finalized the discussion stating that a vote would be taken at the October Golf Board meeting on whether or not to extend the agreement currently in effect with Kevin Wilcox. If the extension is not agreed to, we would begin the RFP process. Bill and Henry both felt there was a need to meet with Kevin and come back to the Board with their recommendations. Jerry noted that he will place this item on the October 21 agenda of the Golf Board. ELECTION OF OFFICERS FOR 1998/1999 Mike Sanders nominated Mindy Markley for the office of Chairperson of the Golf Board and moved that she be reelected to this office for the 1998/1999 term. Byrd Curtis seconded the nomination and motion. The motion passed with a unanimous vote (8:0). After the vote, Mike publicly stated that he feels Mindy has done an excellent job as the Golf Board Chairperson. It was added that she represents the spirit of the Golf Board. Mindy Markley nominated Mike Sanders as Vice -Chairperson of the Golf Board and moved that he be re-elected to this office for the 1998/1999 term. The nomination and motion was seconded by Henry Fry and was passed by unanimous vote (8:0). Mindy Markley nominated Tom White for the office of Board Secretary and moved that he be elected to this office for the 1998/1999 term. Bill Rutledge seconded the motion. The motion received unanimous approval (8:0). Golf Board Minutes September 16, 1998 Page 12 CORRESPONDENCE/FINANCIAL AND STATISTICAL REPORTS • Jerry reported that the Golf Fund is 4.8% ahead of average at this time. • Jerry reported that City Council approved First Reading on the ditch realignment at City Park Nine. The Second Reading of this project will be at the Council session on October 6. ADJOURNMENT A motion to adjourn the Golf Board meeting was made by Mike Hall and seconded by Bill Rutledge. The motion was approved (8:0) and the Golf Board meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Alyce Nierman, Administrative Aide MEETING ATTENDANCE Board Members Staff Mindy Markley Jerry P. Brown Alyce D. Nierman Frank Blanco Paul Brauer Jackie Rael Byrd Curtis Derek Cordova Dale Smigelsky Tom DeGrand Randy Bonneville Sarah Watts Henry Fry Doug Evans Kevin Wilcox Mike Hall Pat Fry Bill Rutledge Jim Greer Mike Sanders Dan MacArthur Citizens Clara M. Alley Gary Miles James Snyder Don Dietz Claire Nelms Jerry Stahmer Margaret Edmunds Marcia Odell Jim VanDeVelde Gil Fechner Charles Ogren Julie VanDeVelde Vivian Fitch Harvey R. Riley Roger Vanderslice Gordon Gartner John Schuh Dale Wolaver Jean Haggard John Siglowski Peggy Wolaver John H. Hess Doug Wyffels