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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 03/04/1992((0)) • MINUTES • CITY OF FORT COLLINS NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD 281 N. COLLEGE AVE. - CONFERENCE ROOM MARCH 4, 1202 For Reference: Will Smith, NRAB Chair - 223-0425 Cathy Fromme, Council liaison - 223-9360 Tom Shoemaker, Staff liaison - 221-6600 Board Members Present Tim Johnson, Will Smith, Hal Swope, Chuck Davis (left at 9:45 p.m.), Bill Miller, Phil Friedman, Steve Erthal, Deni LaRue Board Members Absent (excused) Christine Ferguson Staff Present Tom Shoemaker, Julie Bothwell, Edith Felchle, Paul Eckman, (City Attorney's Office) Rob Wilkinson, Jan Meisel and Joe Frank (Planning Department) Guests Present Marian Block, Nancy Moir (Both from the League of Women Voters) Introduction of Guests There were brief introductions of members and guests. There was one change to the Minutes of the February 11, 1992 NRAB meeting: The date of the meeting should be February 11. Minutes were unanimously approved; LaRue and Erthal abstained because they were not at the meeting. The following changes were made to the Minutes of the January 15, 1992 NRAB meeting: Friedman's absence was excused. Page 2, last paragraph, sentence 6 should read, "The Stormwater Utility is proposing a policy so that the State and permittees will know what the City is going to require under the general permit." Minutes were unanimously approved with Friedman abstaining. The following changes were made to the Minutes of the February 5, 1992 NRAB: page 5, paragraph 4, line 6 should read, "As part of the retreat the Board wants to hear from some Councilmembers about how they are perceived and how they can be more effective, and let Councilmembers decide how that will happen." Minutes were unanimously approved with LaRue abstaining. Old Business Ethics Review Board Opinion Smith said that at the February 5 NRAB meeting, some Boardmembers, who participate in other citizen groups, asked where they should draw the line of personal interest and participation in certain discussions of the NRAB. Paul Eckman of the City Attorney's Office was present to discuss this issue. Eckman stated that the law is fairly clear that it is not an ethical problem for members to appear in front of their board as long as they are not appearing i. an official capacity. The.Athics Opinion stated that it was acceptable to appear on behalf of yourself as an individual, but not as a representative for some other organization. Eckman said another ethics opinion stated that a Boardmember could represent and participate in decisions pertaining to an organization of which the Boardmember was a member, if the Boardmember was a member of that organization in "the line of duty." For example, sometimes Mayor Kirkpatrick, as member of the Platte River Power Authority Board, can still vote on Platte River Power Authority issues that are before the Council. The three deciding factors were: 1. The nature of the organization and whether it serves a bonafide public purpose. 2. If the reason for the Boardmember's involvement was to benefit the Boardmember, that would be a negative factor. 3. Whether the organization is competing with other organizations for City support; If not, the Boardmember was not serving for personal gain, and if the organization serves a bonafide public purpose, there is no conflict at all. Smith asked if, for example, as a member of Choice City Cycle Coalition (C4), because of his personal interest in bicycle advocacy he would have a conflict of interest when there is Board discussion of issues related to transportation. Eckman answered that this does not seem a "line of duty" kind of membership. Even though he has a public interest, Smith was not appointed to C4 by the City. Although in this ethics opinion the ethics review board believes that the same line of reasoning holds true even when no formal Council appointment has occurred but the activities of an individual Boardmember can legitimately be viewed as furthering the public interest. He added that if Smith could prevail in the argument that his membership in C4 furthers the public interest, is for bonafide public purpose, is not for his particular personal benefit, and is not competing with other organizations for City support, then maybe Smith does not have an interest to worry about. So Smith could participate with NRAB and vote on such issues. Johnson said all members should identify any possible conflict of interest upfront. Eckman said Boardmembers could go to the Council Ethics Committee, through the Board's Council liaison, and ask for an opinion on a specific possible conflict. If the Ethics Committee advice is followed, the Board then has a good argument that its actions were taken in good faith. Erthal asked if a Boardmember could identify himself as a Board member speaking as a Boardmember, then identify himself as an individual speaking on an opinion, and then identify himself as a representative of a group. Eckman explained that the Charter defines a personal interest as, "any interest other than a financial interest, any interest arising from blood or marriage relationships, from close business, political or personal associations or concerns, which would in the judgement of a reasonably prudent person tend to impair independence of judgement or action in a performance of your official discretionary duties." So if a reasonable person would think, "that guy is not going to be fair minded on this because of one of those reasons, then there would be a personal interest; or there might be a financial interest if the Boardmember will gain money out of it. So then the Charter says, "any officer or employee who has, or whose relative has a financial interest or personal interest in any decision of the public body of which he/she is a member or to which he/she makes recommendations, shall upon discovery thereof disclose such interest in the official records of the City. That person shall refrain from voting 2 on, attempting to inffence, or otherwise particsting in such decision in any manner as an officer or employee." , Miller noted that he serves on two other organizations that are wildlife -related. He asked if the Board gets involved with an issue and decides to take a stance, and he falls on one side of the issue with respect to wildlife values of the land, and he has strong opinions which he would make known to the Board, does he have to issue a disclaimer that he is not a boardmember speaking, but a member of a citizen organization that has these particular interests. Eckman answered yes, the Ethics opinion that came out in September states, "appearances to other Boards in a representative capacity should be permitted." Eckman stated that if the Board had any other questions it should refer back to the Charter first and the Ethics Opinions second, because the Charter is the law, and the Ethics is an opinion. Felchle suggested that when a member sees an item on the agenda which there may be a question about possible conflict of interest, that person might want to call the City Attorney before the meeting and discuss the issue. Eckman reiterated the option of getting an Ethics Committee opinion. Prospect Streetscape Jan Meisel of the Planning Department was present to discuss the Prospect Streetscape project. Smith asked if Meisel was looking for a recommendation or simply providing information. Meisel said she wanted to bring the Board up to speed and would like comments or concerns that the Board may have. She explained that they have completed the first two steps of the work program: (1) inventory and analysis and (2) design development for design concepts. She has presented the program to the Storm Drainage Board, and Parks and Recreation Board, had two public open houses, and met with approximately 90% of the residents and/or property owners along the corridor. From the summary of comments received from citizens, staff, and boards, staff will go back into design development and come up with one preferred concept. She will bring that concept to the NRAB at the May 6 meeting. At that point the final alternative, the set of design guidelines and standards, will be reviewed and taken to the Planning and Zoning Board and then ultimately to Council for approval. The last step that is not completed is implementation. Meisel said that the purpose of the project, the mission statement, was to establish design guidelines and standards for the future streetscape development, to include recommendations for open space along the trail network. The reason they are proceeding with the program is that this area is an important entry way to the city and a primary gateway to CSU. With the Environmental Learning Center moving up closer to Prospect Road, it is important that a unified approach be provided along the streetscape to encourage viewing natural resources within this area as an integrated resource. Meisel said that the existing gravel operations are phasing out. This project was identified as a most important priority project in the 1990 Land Development Guidance System Audit, and Council also identified this project as high priority in their 1991 work program. 3 Meisel said they ha.._ a draft of the standards .Ad guidelines, which was included in the mailout packet, which addresses set -backs, landscaping, fencing, and lighting. She said they will not do signage. They will be looking at parking lots in terms of setbacks, trails, sidewalks, service areas, maintenance, and architectural design. The last step to be completed in the next six to eight weeks will be the implementation strategies. Meisel said that most of the corridor has potential to be mined. So the question is how to handle that and whether the guidelines and standards address those issues. Meisel said they looked at habitats in the Corridor with the help of the Natural Areas Plan and other resources. The most important thing that came out it is that they do need to look at wildlife and the crossings that occur. They looked at ownership and land use. East side is rural/ agricultural area. As you come into the Poudre Floodway, it is mostly in open space, either owned by CSU or by the City, and/or it is in gravel operations, and some of those are reclaimed. To the west is the more urban area: the existing business parks of Seven Lakes, Prospect Park East, and the orthopedic center. The zoning in the area is about 50% City and 50% County. A lot of the floodway is in the county and is zoned agriculture. If it comes into the city, it will stay in agriculture or low development impacts because of the floodway. East of I-25 there is a large commercial area that is in the county and until it becomes surrounded it will probably stay in the county. When the dominant transportation corridor, Prospect Road, is improved, it will be widened to a four -lane arterial. In addition to the four moving lanes, it will have two six -foot -wide on -road bike lanes. Meisel said that these are the standards that they are using for their design, and until the City Transportation Master Plan has been revised or updated those are the standards that will be used. Meisel presented the various design concepts. She said Concept A applies to the developed Urban Area or Highway Corridor Area. She said all the areas would have a 50 to 80 foot setback. They have a formal row of street trees, informal planting to the back where the berms occur, and a meandering sidewalk. The building setback at the present is 50 feet and they would maintain that so no building or parking would be allowed within 50 feet of the right-of-way. Meisel said Concepts B and C apply to the riverway. There are two separate concepts developed out of two different historical themes. Concept B is "pre -irrigation." It would include shrub masses which would carry it across the road to make a more natural setting with the road cutting through the shrubs instead of the shrubs paralleling the road. Concept B would use native "thicket -forming" shrubs. Meisel said they would preserve the open meadows and wetlands and would be able to preserve the views and enhance them in some ways. Trees would be planted in a random pattern. She explained two different alternatives for the trail concepts and two different road alternatives. Planning has also looked at a different roadway designs in this area because it is more natural and native in 4 character. Meisel sa* it is possible this area4kll not have curb and gutter. Of the two trail concepts, the first would be to use one trail, but have it set back a minimum of 20`feet and have the trail 10 feet wide. Because of the split floodway there will be another bridge diversion. In order for the two bridges to meet, the road will have to be raised. Meisel said they would like to make sure there is more of a separation and perhaps even lower the trail. The split trail concept would pull the sidewalk closer to the road and would be paved. The next trail lower down would be unpaved, but a maintained surface. It would be more useable for mountain bikes and/or horses. The difference between Concept B and C is that C uses a riparian forest or a cottonwood -willow theme and which is dominated by the tree canopy itself. There would be tree massing that would probably be parallel to the river with a heavier emphasis close to the river itself, and then two or three smaller crossings. This would have a detached walk and could serve as either a split walk or as one walk or trail together. The next two concepts, D and E, apply from Summitview east to County Road Five. Concept D is a Suburban Style. The concept includes both shrub and tree massing on either side of the walk along with berms. There is no dominant street tree. The walk would be detached and eight feet wide. Meisel stated that they would like to have it as wide as possible because of the mixed uses of commuters and bicyclists. Concept E is a Windrow Style. Windrow plantings and tree masses would be utilized in this concept. It would use two rows of trees, different species and different sizes, to reduce wind problems and allow for screening and open visibility where needed. Meisel stated that part of the mission statement was also to design concepts for the I-25 gateway. The windrow theme was chosen to illustrate how it would work in two different concepts. One concept would take the windrow and stretch it out so it would parallel Prospect Road and the frontage road areas. There are two different themes relative to approaching an entry way or gateway as you get to the top. This theme takes the more standard approach that as you slow down in a car you can usually relate to your environment more, so typically when you approach an interchange you start with the shrub community and then move up to trees, that. The other concept would take the windrow along the edges, but spread out more along the frontage roads. As you approach the top and come to the overpass, there would be small trees, shrubs, and low growing plantings. This would allow an open view. Swope said that he cannot understand why the design uses standard city lighting. Lights are not needed every hundred feet, just at certain times. The row of light towers will detract from the beautiful view. Meisel said that, within the riverway, lighting will be limited. Lighting will probably only be needed for security e.g., crossing under the bridge, and entrance to sites. Metal halite light is a better source, more expensiveupfront, but cheaper in the long run. She will make that recommendation. Erthal said he would like to see the Poudre River Area evaluated as a wildlife habitat and compared to some of the other areas that the City is concerned with spending money on; he would like to see how it would be evaluated on a priority basis. He is concerned about creating a wildlife sanctuary between trails on an increasingly busy street. He does not think 5 a meandering trail systems really serves the function,-,& purpose of bike trails. He is not confident that they will be successful at combining mountain bikes with horse traffic. He basically feels this is an effort just to promote aesthetics rather than real preservation value. He is concerned about buffers that stop after 50 ft. Meisel said they recommend that adjacent property owners extend the same streetscape theme so they create the same thing throughout the valley. The City will follow this recommendations CSU probably will also. There are some questions about maintenance, and wildlife is a big concern. They are trying to work with Natural Resources and Stormdrainage when they do the bridge improvements. It may be possible to encourage a pathway for the wildlife. She looked through some research on snow fences. They may attract wildlife, but they do not deter it from crossing. Animals are going to cross whether the snow fence is there or not. Smith wanted to know how many signals would be added between County Road 5 and Timberline. He does not believe that the AASHTO standards allow, or recommend, an attached bike path when speeds exceed 40 or 55 mph. He does not see anything that moderates speeds as the roadway is widened. Meisel said signals are not an element of this project. It will become part of the City's Master Transportation Study. Signals will not impact the design or the concept directly. She said they are using the City's standard which allows for bikeways. Speed is one of the main concerns of the residents in the community, but will not impact the design standard itself. Friedman asked what attempt is being made, relative to the floodway aspect of concepts B & C as compared to A, D, & E, to integrate what happens in the floodway area with as opposed to what happens in the A area and the D area north and south. A & B are potentially developable, but the floodway area has no potential for development in the future. Meisel answered that if any of those parcels came through for development, they would come through the Land Development Guidance System. Most of that is agriculture; ultimately some of that will be mined. Friedman asked if there has been any consideration of the fact that there is a different type of control in place for that corridor or floodway area as opposed to the urban area and more rural area because they will be treated differently in the long run. Meisel said that some of that will fall into the stormdrainage master plan, and part of it falls in the Natural Areas Plan. Shoemaker said the direction the City would like to go is for public open space and natural vegetation north and south of the corridor. To a large extent that already occurs in this area. Several departments feel that, from both a habitat perspective and a recreation perspective, trying to block up the "out parcels" that are not in public ownership is real critical. LaRue stated that she appreciates the sense of ergonomics and the comfort of the traveler along these byways. She is concerned that the area might be too manicured. She feels it puts too much emphasis on the gateways into the City. What is inside is more important to her; the air quality and the animals getting across the road. On section E she does not 21 mind the idea of thedrow, because it is pret�consistent in the community, but she wou d like to see it functions She asked what kind of ground cover would be planted. Meisel answered that both D & E recommend a drought tolerant grass, probably moderately irrigated. LaRue asked Meisel to define river scouring. Meisel answered that when the river floods, it usually takes away all the top soil and all the top vegetation; it scours the surface. That is predominately what happened before we started divert water for irrigation. Johnson suggested that another thought for the secondary trails might be multiple trails instead of having the idea that "one shoe fits all." They could keep the width of the meandering trails narrow the paved part, and then think about a second track for walkers, runners, etc. Separate the wheeled traffic, the faster moving traffic, as opposed to the foot traffic. Meisel said there is discussion right now in Transportation as to what is the best mode. AASHTO standards would pretty much determine what should be separated. There is a conflict when pedestrians move 2-5 miles per hour and bikes move 25-30. This concept would really strive to have two modes except in the river way, where they could accommodate three, and that is why they are moving to a wider standard. Right now a typical standard sidewalk on an arterial is between 5 and 7 ft. There is a real conflict right now if you put recreational bikers and/or bladers with pedestrians. Johnson said he looks for the transportation plan to define other alternative commuter modes. LaRue said she is concerned about wildlife - making sure that buffers and whatever needs to be done is done. She also likes the split trail alternative. Erthal reiterated his concern about aesthetics. It appears this is just for the purpose of creating a gateway for CSU. CSU should draw people on their own with education. He is also concerned about the sand and gravel areas, about doing it nicely and then having development come in later. Friedman agreed with Erthal concerning aesthetics. He likes the concept of the site view as opposed to the riparian. Miller stated that with the river valley he tends to go more toward the B concept except there are some advantages of having some tree lines. Assuming that the area ultimately becomes accessible as far as being vegetated, the tree lines would provide a funneling effect for the larger wildlife and if a culvert is put in that would probably become an ideal place for them to cross. He likes a mixed concept for trees. To preserve a view, logic says put the trees on the eastside. But, it may not fit in aesthetically. On the other hand, trees could be put down there along the river. All in all he likes it. Davis said he agrees with the split paths and with what Miller said about maintaining some commitment to preservation. Swope restated his concern with the light standards. He stated that, 7 to enhance the open feel g, where there is setback`-Ath the buildings and. parking lots for commercial developments, maybe they could be required to have some of the parking between the setback and the building to get away from having the buildings sit on the setback line. Smith said that he is also concerned with the lighting and about the minimal discussion in terms of signage with buildings. He feels it should be better thought out and better explained in terms of what will be allowed. He thinks there is too much reliance on planting trees; it is somewhat artificial. The NRAB took a two minute break at this time. Key Business Year of the River Smith said that the Land Use Committee met and discussed many issues with the Year of the River. Miller drafted a letter, Smith went around the table for comments and questions regarding the letter. Swope said his comments are already reflected in the letter. Davis asked if the proposed "clearing house" that Howard Alden spoke of has have any potential relevance for this. Johnson answered that potentially it does. Shoemaker said the City and CSU have agreed to do some joint planning for the ELC area to develop a master plan to implement CSU's plans for the ELC and the City's plans for open space. Jeff Lakey from CSU is coordinating the effort. Staff from Natural Resources, Planning, Stormwater, and Parks are cooperating. Friedman said that he thought some kind of educational effort was missing to inform people about the benefits of the Poudre River, what makes it unique. He would like to see some type of river history display. Erthal agreed with Friedman. LaRue said that she was not clear on whether it included consideration of downtown riverways. Miller said that it was not specifically mentioned. Miller stated that Mayor Kirkpatrick had two paragraphs in her State of the City address, declaring The Year of the River. These addressed the idea of the National Heritage Area. ELC and Prospect Corridor Streetscape Plan are only a few of the existing activities that involve the river. The Year of the River can touch all age groups. It is an inclusive theme which values the natural environment and recognizes the human interaction with part of the natural system. He said that the downtown area has been mentioned and if LaRue thinks it needs to be in the letter then he will add it. LaRue said that she was thinking of the Gustav Swanson Nature Area. Miller said that the Poudre River Trust is also trying to make sure that some of the areas down in the Old Town area are cleaned up. LaRue suggested something along the line of supporting organizations that are underway with cleaning up the river and the downtown area. Smith agreed with Friedman regarding education about the Poudre River. 8 He suggested so4 eformatting of the lette with some focus and explanation about why he Board is writing the le ter, and adding a closing paragraph. He said that he feels this is an opportunity to look at in terms of City and Civic cooperative efforts, e.g., Gustav Swanson Nature Area. Smith also stated that there are some portions of the river that are often forgot then e.g., west of College over to Shields. This is a good opportunity to look at the river as a corridor. Johnson suggested combining paragraphs one and two to be more forceful. He would like to keep a separate focus on developing the ELC into a world class environmental learning center. He suggested development of a safe access to the old Water Treatment Plant for the purposes of creating Fort Collins first mountain park, an extended world class learning center, and providing interpretation for the National Water Heritage Area. He would like to expand the Year of the River to The Decade of the River. Johnson also agreed with Friedman's comments on more education about the river. Friedman said that he thought The Decade of the River was good, but suggested that The Year of the River usher forth the decade of the River. Friedman moved and Erthal seconded that the Board review the revised draft of the letter at the April 1, meeting and approve it with a person(s) designated to make the revision before then. LaRue stated that Miller, as the Chair of the Land Use Committee, should work with Johnson to revise the letter. The motion was opposed unanimously. Friedman moved and Johnson seconded that the letter be revised and corrected and sent on to Council with the Board's explicit approval. The motion was passed unanimously. The Land Use Committee will revise the letter. NRAB Attendance Policy Smith said that he wants to develop a draft attendance policy and would like Boardmembers' comments. He will bring it back to the Board at the April 1 meeting for a vote. Smith explained that the concern at the present time is when a member misses a substantial number of meetings it can lead to problems in subsequent meetings because that person had not been present for the continuous flow. He said that as Chair it sometimes becomes difficult to reprimand members, in terms of saying that a member is not attending enough meetings. So he would like to have a policy. Smith stated that he has reviewed the attendance policy with Council Liaison Fromme. Smith recommended that excused or unexcused absences not exceed 25% of the regularly schedule meetings. If there is going to be a problem where a member misses three scheduled meetings in a row, that should be brought to the Board's attention beforehand. Johnson stated that at times there is a threat that there may not be a quorum for a meeting so he is in favor of an attendance policy being set. He suggested that if a member has two unexcused absences in a year he/she be asked to step aside. He likes the idea of 25% relative to excused absences. 0 LaRue stated that tl :e should be no reason for_1n unexcused absence; all a member needs to do is notify staff. When members were appointed to the Board they accepted the position on the Board with the understanding that it would be one meeting a month. She has nothing against one meeting a month, but feels that if a 25% policy is adopted based on two meetings a month, the policy should be phased in so that any new person coming aboard understands that. She agrees with three in a row. Erthal stated that he likes the 25% rule. He also thinks members with two unexcused absences should step aside. He thinks the 25% rule should only be applied to the regularly scheduled first Wednesday meeting. Friedman agrees it should only be applied to the regularly scheduled first Wednesday meeting. He asked what is counted as excused. He also wondered if absent members should meet with someone to catch up on what was discussed at the meeting. Felchle stated that may be similar to a committee meeting and need to be posted. Miller stated that he liked the idea of only being allowed two unexcused absences and 25% total of first Wednesday meetings. Davis asked about during the summer when members are gone on vacation. LaRue stated that she was once told by a Councilmember that if a lot of members are going to be on vacation in a given month that the meeting can be canceled. Swope said that he agreed with 25% of the regularly scheduled meetings. Smith said that he will present a proposal at the April 1 meeting for Board discussion and approval. Felchle clarified that the attendance policy right now allows three unexcused absences in a year. Smith stated that Shoemaker suggested an additional informational meeting be held in addition to the regularly scheduled meetings. Smith will look into that. Shoemaker followed up by saying that it was a suggestion of how to approach things. Staff will research the procedures. Committee Reports - (Sahedulod) Land Use Committee - Fort Collins High School Shoemaker stated that he included a memo to Boardmembers in the packet because he knew that the subject was on the agenda for the meeting. The memo was written to try and clarify for Council and others what the review process was for consideration of the new high school. Shoemaker said he mailed it for background information purposes. Smith said he expected an answer from Council relative to the letter, NRAB previously sent to Council on this topic. That answer has not been received yet. Shoemaker said that at a Council worksession the Board's letter was discussed. That prompted the Planning Department to put together the memo that Shoemaker sent. It talks about the complexity issues of the high school and prompted a number of efforts to make sure that the City and the School District were working together on issues 10 related to the High Stool. • Shoemaker said the high school and related developments are just coming in to the formal process. The comments of the Board have been conveyed in that. Shoemaker referred to a recent article in the paper about plans for alternative transportation. Partly as a result of the Board's and staff's concerns about transportation/air quality issues, the City has stated that this is a critical issue with the school development. Poudre R-1 has agreed to work with the City on an alternative transportation program at this school and other schools within the district. Shoemaker said that he needed direction from the Board on how it would like to be informed. Johnson said that he would like to be informed as it proceeds forward, especially with the alternative transportation program. Smith said that he agrees with Johnson. He is still confused about the interaction between PR-1 and the City. It sounds like it is very good and cooperative relative to discussion. The outcome is yet to be seen. PR-1 is responsible for the school. The City does not get to review and provide input until it goes through the Planning and Zoning review process. Shoemaker stated that the process is that the school comes through the planning and zoning review process as an advisory review. The School Board can override the Planning and Zoning Board recommendation. NRAB is advisory to Council and not to P&Z. So in order to keep the Board informed, Shoemaker said that staff needs to make special efforts. Education Committee -- NRAB Retreat Friedman said that the Retreat will be held at the Holiday Inn - University Park from 8:30 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Suzanne Jarboe -Simpson of Employee Development will facilitate the retreat. LaRue, Friedman, Miller, and Felchle will be meeting with her to "set the stage." After lunch there will be a field trip to the old Water Treatment Plant, The Parks and Recreation Board has been invited to go on the field trip. Transportation will be provided. Smith said that Councilmembers Fromme and Azari will be attending. Smith read a letter from the Parks and Recreation Board basically stating that they did not expect the facility to come under their purview, partly because they only provide advice relative to parks within the city limits. announcements Johnson announced that Friends of the Poudre did a cleanup on the river February 29. Johnson announced that CSU had an interesting seminar February 28 talking about Zero Energy Building -- commercial buildings that use 1/4 the energy of conventional buildings. He stated he would like the Board to recommend that when the City builds some of their large buildings they try hard to incorporate some of these designs. Swope asked if the Commissioners were "second guessing" the IPC. Shoemaker answered that the Commissioners have been proceeding cautiously and have not made a final commitment. Waste Management called a meeting in response to concerns about how much business they are going to be taking to 11 the landfill. The questi n is, will they use the IPC', and how will their new facility in Windsor affect the IPC. Shoemaker said basically the meeting focused on those issues and Waste Management said that they would use the IPC. Other trash haulers stated that they were not sure if they would use the IPC so the Commissioners decided that another meeting needed to be held. So there is a concern that trash haulers are not going to use it. Smith asked for member's alternative transportation challenge sheet. Adiournment The meeting adjourned at 10:10 p.m. Juli4 Bothwell, Board Secretary 12