HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 09/02/1992MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
281 N. COLLEGE AVE. - CONFERENCE ROOM
SEPTEMBER 2, 1992
For Reference: Will Smith, NRAB Chair - 223-0425
Cathy Fromme, Council liaison - 223-9360
Tom Shoemaker, Staff liaison - 221-6263
Board Members Present
Bill Miller, Phil Friedman, Terri Knudsen, Deni LaRue, Will Smith, Steve
Erthal, Tim Johnson
Board Members Absent (excused)
Craig McGee, Hal Swope
Staff Present
Julie Bothwell, Edith Felchle, Randy Balok and Craig Foreman (Park
Planning)
Guests Present
Jim Slagle (Public Service), Michelle Eccellente and Rex Burns (citizens)
Minutes
It was moved, seconded, and unanimously approved that the Minutes of
the August 5, 1992 NRAB meeting be accepted as written.
New Business
Power Line Modification in Pineridge Open Space
Craig Foreman and Randy Balok were present to discuss modifying the
power lines in Pineridge Open Space.
Balok stated that the City purchased Pineridge in 1976. There are
other easements, but this one, in its current location bisects the property
and crosses the reservoir. Public Service requested that the bisecting
power line be abandoned and put in a new line to the edge of the property
against the hillside.
Foreman stated that Council asked for some dialogue and some Board
discussion on the system. The "kicker" is that Public Service would charge
$13,000 to underground the line, and if the City does not want to pay that,
the existing line will stay in place.
Foreman said in the near future the County will be working on some
roads and they will need to readjust the lines and Public Service would be
willing to work together then.
Foreman presented a slide show of the existing power line and where
the new lines would be.
Jim Slagle of Public Service was also present. He presented a handout
that showed the proposed type of construction; 40 ft. poles set 6 ft. in
the ground so there would be a 34 ft. pole above the ground. An insulator
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would be at the top, and. nen one insulator off on t_.e side. He said
aesthetically these are a lot less offensive than the cross -arm structure
Smith stated that the new line is above ground and what is being
talked about is underground. Foreman said that undergrounding the line
would cost the City $13,000, so right now it will be an overhead line with
the vertical poles every 200 feet.
Foreman said that the Parks and Recreation Board comments were as
follows: (1) Staff asked if it makes sense to remove the section across
Dixon Reservoir, and they responded, "yes" (2) The Board asked if overhead
lines should be allowed at all in open space. Staff recommended not
spending the $13,000 to underground the line.
LaRue asked if it was possible that the whole area would be redone and
the lines removed completely. Slagle answered that it is quite possible in
the future. He talked with Mike Bryant, Larimer County, because one of the
options that Slagle was looking at was extending the line down to County
Road 42. The only problem is that the road is not scheduled to be improved
for 2-5 years. They are talking about some big road cuts of 20 ft. and 10-
15 ft. of fill, so any work that would be done would have to be redone
after the road was improved. Slagle did look at other options, but for the
present this seems to be the most feasible route on an overhead basis; it
also is the least costly and the cheapest to deal with in the future.
LaRue asked if the City was to appropriate $13,000, would it come out
of an open space fund. Foreman answered that it would come out of the
conservation trust open space line item.
Miller stated that it saves money for right now, and also the line
across the reservoir is aesthetically more desirable at this time because
it puts the line behind people.
Erthal disagreed. He asked if it was going to be protected open space
in the future and asked where it fits into the overall plan of open space.
Slagle stated that it is City open space now and will remain City open
space. Erthal stated that it is worth the cost of burying the line.
Erthal asked what the cost of reclamation was. Slagle stated that he
did not have any figures for that. Erthal felt that if they came to the
Board with the $13,000 for burying the line, they should be able to come
with the cost of reclaiming the 8 ft. scar. Slagle said the portion they
looked at for the undergrounding was along the road and then along the old
access road. The cost of reclamation of that portion is not much because
there is not that much left.
Erthal stated that it appears to him that they will be adding another
50% worth of visible power line compared to what was there before. He
asked what the space between the new poles was vs. the old poles, and the
height of the new poles vs. the old poles. Slagle stated that the distance
across the City property is approximately 1200-1400 ft. and the distance
along the County Road right of way and across the City is about 2500 ft.
So in that area they are adding pole line, but the overall distance is
close to a mile. Slagle stated the old poles were built on either a 35 ft.
pole with an 8 or 10 inch cross arm on it, the double -pole structures on
either side of the lake are on 40 ft. poles. He is proposing the new poles
be 40 ft. poles, because the conductors are stacked and it takes a taller
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pole, but at the same *me the stack configurations less visible than a
cross arm. The standard space between poles is 200 ft.
Foreman stated that with Rex Burn's development in the Foothills zone,
Burns would have to deed some open space property to the City and do the
low density "cluster housing." So when we look at the total area that
people think of as open space, most extend it to the ridge, this area will
become City land in the future.
Felchle commented that Shoemaker stated from Staff's standpoint, Staff
considers underground to have more negative environmental impact.
Slagle stated that Rex Burns is committed to either doing this or
finding an alternative route. Slagle said they do not have the money in
their budget for an alternative route, so the line would remain overhead.
Smith asked what happens to the easement if the new line of poles goes
in. Foreman answered that the road would be vacated. Slagle stated that
the only easement that is in there is a prescriptive rights easement; that
line has been there more than IS years so they have the right to have it
there and access and maintain it.
Erthal asked if Foreman was asking for approval. Foreman stated that
they are asking for two things. 1) A recommendation on getting rid of the
line across Dixon Reservoir, 2) A recommendation on spending the $13,000
for undergrounding.
Erthal recommended to table the item until staff lets the Board know
why they think it is more environmentally sound to go with this option as
opposed to undergrounding it.
Johnson moved and LaRue seconded that the Board accept the
recommendations of Staff.
Friedman asked if it was conceivable that if the green line was
undergrounded that it would only be a temporary fix. Slagle said if the
line is overhead, they would revisit the whole issue when the road
improvement is made. Larimer County has indicated that when they make
these improvements they may ask for the line to be relocated or
undergrounded. He said if it does go in as overhead it is not a dead
issue, but it may not be that way forever because, at the same time they
have a budget and if it is not economically feasible for them to relocate
they won't. If it is undergrounded and it is decided to relocate or
rework the entire distribution system they will leave it in place.
Johnson stated that he made the motion for three reasons; 1)
effectively removing the lines from about 2/3 of the open space, 2) it
allows a future relocation, and if it is not done now, it may be impossible
to relocate the line, and 3) it allows the option of changing in the
future.
LaRue said if in ten years nothing was done, would the City be
interested, from the open space point of view, in relooking at it and
seeing what undergrounding would cost. Foreman said it could get back in
the budget a little easier at that point.
The motion was passed 6-1. Erthal opposed because to him it makes a
lot more sense for staff to come to the Board with concrete costs for
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burying the cable, along kith reclamation costs. It —Roes not•make sense to
him to add linear footage of new poles vs. old poles.
Old Business
Water Treatment Plant 11
Smith gave an update on the schedule of Water Treatment Plant 1
project. The first tour was August 29 and there were approximately 15
people present. There will be a meeting with Boardmembers, Mike Smith, and
Suzanne Jarboe -Simpson on September 9, to review details for the September
16, meeting. The meeting will be at 5:30 p.m. in the Natural Resources
Division's conference room. The second tour will be September 12.
LaRue said evaluation forms were handed out at the tour and she
received seven of them back. Miller will do the evaluations for the
September 12 tour. A few people wrote on the evaluations that they do want
something more formal, and would like to know more information.
Smith said that Mayor Kirkpatrick apologized for not coming to the
tour, but there was some misunderstanding of the meeting. Smith also said
that Mayor Pro Tem Azari said that she looks forward to working with the
Board. She will be out of town September 16, and will not be able to
attend the meeting, but hopes there are many interesting participants.
Final plans were discussed and made.
Comments on Natural Areas Action Plan (NAPP)
The Land Use Committee drafted a letter regarding the NAPP. Johnson
stated that the main idea regarding the NAPP is that everyone is positive
toward it. In the last paragraph of the letter there were a few comments
about funding. The potential sources in addition to those noted in the
NAPP are: 1) 0.25% city wide sales tax for five years, (November
initiative), 2) lottery money from GO COLORADO, (state wide initiative),
and 3) open space fee on new development implemented like the parkland fee.
LaRue stated in the second paragraph, last sentence, it should read,
"The natural areas should be managed for public benefit within the scope of
natural areas preservation."
In the fourth paragraph, the first sentence is not clear. Johnson
said the purpose of the sentence was to be that the public natural areas
and the private land holdings are going to be next to each other. He will
rewrite it.
Smith stated the reason funding is important is because a majority of
the properties that have been identified for possible natural areas within
the city are under private management. So he suggested putting something
in the letter relative to that.
Smith said relative to Legislative action one of the biggest
impediments to some of this is water auqamentation considerations; without
any legislative action then the city has to be scrambling for water
auqamentation, and that is missing in the plan. Building a NAPP should be
supported by some of the legislative actions and not be impeded by things
occurring. He feels that there is a legislative aspect that is being
overlooked in Section Six of the NAPP.
Erthal moved and Johnson seconded that the letter be approved with the
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f corrections stated. •
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Erthal would like for the Board to take a real proactive stance on
pushing for increasing funds.
Knudsen asked if City-wide sales tax was public common knowledge.
Johnson said that it was at present; Council voted on it September 1 to
officially put it on the ballot.
The motion was passed unanimously.
Old Business
Natural Areas Funding
Johnson said that for 1993 there is approximately $185,000 recommended
in the budget for natural areas funding, the last two years Council has put
in $200,000 each year. A few years ago the Board recommended to Council
establishment of a 1.5 million dollar fund for natural areas funding. He
feels that while they have some potential with regard to the letter 1993 is
the year they cannot let slip, and recommend that Council do much better
than the $185,000 the City Manager is recommending.
Felchle clarified that the City Manager is recommending $200,000.
Johnson suggests that the Board should ask for $500,000. If Shoemaker
begins to make progress with the Seven Springs area everything in the pot
could disappear.
Smith asked if it would be possible to update the letter that was
presented to Council last year, detailing some of the properties with
figures and recommending a level of funding, then sending it forward for
this year.
Johnson moved and Knudsen seconded that the Board update the 1992
letter and set the level at $500,000 for funding.
Erthal moved to amend the amount to $750,000. The amendment was
accepted.
The motion was unanimously approved.
Smith will rewrite the letter with the corrections of the NAPP and
include the proposal for funding of natural areas.
Moratorium on Shake Shingles
Erthal stated that what spawned this was there are a few architectural
review boards in Fort Collins in certain subdivisions that require the use
of Cedar Shake Shingles. There are alternatives available, he feels that
it is appropriate to prohibit these shingles. These shingles are also a
fire hazard.
The use of cedar shake shingle does more than cut down cedar trees; it
encourages the use of the shingles over and over and the average life of
the shingles is 10 years. Basically what the review boards are saying is,
"We are basing it on esthetics, but not functional use." Erthal stated
that there are several alternatives, and they are at a reasonable cost.
There are even some insurance agencies that will give lower premiums
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because of non -cedar shak. shingles. Erthal presents some examples of
alternative shingles.
Johnson asked where the cedar was coming from for the shingles.
Erthal stated that the information is not available to him.
Smith asked how Erthal sees the process flowing through the system;
what information does Erthal have on the ordinances that he would like to
show as models. Erthal would like to see a moratorium and could model
after several counties around the country that have put a ban on the
shingles.
Johnson asked if some counties in California have done this, would it
be possible to identify them and write a letter asking them for their
reasons for the ban.
LaRue said that it seems like the Board could, as a part of their
charge, recommend to Council to adopt it for the City as a City policy and
then recommend it to residents and builders. Erthal stated that would be a
good first step. He would like to see City staff involved in identifying
some of the ordinances and identifying where some of the materials come
from.
Felchle stated that Shoemaker's preference would be for the Board not
to make a decision at this meeting. He would like to be part of the
discussion.
Smith said that there are good reasons to pursue it, but there also
seems to be a lot of ground work that has to be done. it is just unclear
who would have the time to follow up on the existing ground work.
Johnson stated that there are times when the Board initiates things on
their own, and he suggested that Erthal find out the counties and have them
send the ordinances and the reasons why, then come back to the Board with
the reasons why those counties have adopted the ordinances. That would put
the Board on a much firmer ground for making a recommendation in the
future.
Erthal asked staff to spend some time on it. Johnson recommended that
Erthal help out by giving a "jump start."
Knudsen stated the Minneapolis building industry is pushing the
concrete shingles as one of their alternatives.
Erthal moved and Friedman seconded that the Board ask Staff to provide
limited research and revisit it at the October 7 meeting.
Smith stated, for clarification the Board can make recommendations to
Council, Staff would hear the recommendation, but the Board cannot direct
staff.
Felchle agreed stating that the Board can make the motion, but it does
not mean it necessarily will happen.
Smith asked if it necessarily has to be the Natural Resources
Division, if one of the potential benefits is reduction in fire hazard is
it possible to ask Council to have Poudre Fire Authority (PFA) look at it
as an issue. Erthal stated that PFA does have a lot of information
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available on it. • 0
Erthal stated that PFA had tried to put a ban on cedar shake shingles
a few years ago and was unsuccessful because there was not a pleasing
alternative.
Smith suggested the Board table the motion and Warren Jones be asked
to come to the October 7 meeting, and direct more specific questions as to
some of the things that may help out.
Erthal withdrew the motion with Friedman seconding.
Update on Environmental Fair
Felchle stated that the Environmental Fair is September 19, at Library
Park. One of the unique things about the fair is that it is government
sponsored, but it is cooperative in that exhibitors include government,
non-profit and business. This year there are also some financial sponsors.
There are currently 47 exhibits, but she expects more to come in.
This year with "Balance of Choices", the NRD booth will address the
"choices" aspect from the standpoint of 1) identifying the fact that the
selection committee does not screen exhibitors; 2) having a general kind
of handout with "thought -starter" kinds of questions to get people into the
habit of asking various kinds of questions relative to their actions,
decisions, and purchases in real life relative to the environmental
impacts. Part of that will address evaluating environmental product
claims.
Felchle stated that the one need she did have was that the Natural
Resources booth, in addition to the choices aspect, will have two other
tables: a recycling table and the wheel of environment, which means the
booth needs to have two people staffing it at all times. She asked if some
Boardmembers could volunteer for a couple of hours. Smith said he could
possibly help out.
Committee Reports (UnscheduleM
Smith stated that members should have, or will be, receiving a letter
from Rick Ensdorff regarding a review of the Northeast Area Transportation
Study on September 10.
Ensdorff has also been asked to be on the agenda for the October 7
meeting.
Smith stated that it was that time of the year again for end of the
year committee reports and what is planned for the following year. He
would like for the committee chairs to put together a draft of what was
done in the last year.
Announcements
Felchle announced that the Urban Wildlife Exhibit, which has been
touring Colorado, is at the Fort Collins Museum. It is from July to the
end of November. The Museum is inviting the Natural Resources staff over
for a special viewing September 9, at 2:30 p.m. and the Board is welcome to
attend also.
Smith strongly recommended that the Board participate in the Boards
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and Commissions Workshop. It is scheduled for Septet ar 30, early evening.
Agendas, along with the time that it will start will be mailed at a later
date.
Friedman handed out some copies of articles from "AMICUS" magazine
that he thought the Board would be interested in reading.
Smith stated that there were copies of the fall issue of
"Environmental News." He also had copies of the C-41s September/October
newsletter.
Miller stated that in the August 30 issue of Fort Collins Time there
was an article on the parking situation at Fort Collins High School.
Smith announced that C-4 has information on cost of maintenance, and
cost of building, per parking space at CSU and the number of spaces. There
is consideration of writing a soap box article illustrating those costs.
Adiournseat
The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
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