HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 10/07/1992CITY
NATURAL RE
MINUTES •
OF FORT COLLINS
OURCES ADVISORY BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
281 N. COLLEGE AVE. - CONFERENCE ROOM
OCTOBER 7, 1992
For Reference: Will Smith, NRAB Chair - 221-0425
Cathy Fromme, Council liaison - 223-9360
Tom Shoemaker, Staff liaison - 221-6263
Board Members Present
Will Smith, Hal Swope, Deni LaRue, Steve Erthal, Bill Miller, Phil
Friedman, Tim Johnson, Craig McGee
Board Members Absent (excused)
Terri Knudsen
Staff Present
Tom Shoemaker, Edith Felchle, Rick Ensdorff, Warren Jones, Fire Marshall,
Poudre Fire Authority
Guests Present
Lester Litton and Earl Wilkinson, Northeast Area Transportation Study
minutes
It was moved, seconded, and unanimously approved that the Minutes of
the August 19, 1992 NRAB special meeting be accepted as written with the
amendment of adding discussion regarding two stroke engines and their
effect on air quality. Bothwell was asked to review the tape and revise
the section of minutes in which Woodruff described the Los Angeles' area
campaign to control lawn mowers and chainsaws, which have much greater air
pollution per gallon of fuel used than cars.
It was moved, seconded, and unanimously approved that the Minutes of
the September 12, 1992 NRAB meeting be accepted with the following
amendments: (1) Erthal stated that he had mentioned that one of his
biggest complaints regarding the powerline issue was that the City should
bury the lines when they do future improvements on properties, as opposed
to putting in new powerlines. (2) Page 2, paragraph 5 should read, "Miller
stated that it saves money for right now, and also the line across the
reservoir is aesthetically less desirable at this time because it puts the
line behind people. (3) Page 4, paragraph 3, sentence 3, "interesting"
should be interested.
Old Business
Moratorium on Shake Shingles
Warren Jones was present to discuss Poudre Fire Authority's (PFA)
point of view on cedar shake shingles.
Jones stated that there have been many fires over the last 200 years
and the single largest contributing cause has been the combustible roofing
material. Approximately ten years ago, PFA made an effort to try and get
combustible roofing out of the building code and the wood shake shingle and
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cedar industry opposed i They tried again in 1985 .nd still did not get
very far.
Jones said that PFA would support any efforts to lessen the risk;
however, based on his own personal experience it is a "tough one to crack."
He stated that PFA works within a strategic planning process which runs
every seven years, and at the present they are at the beginning of this
process. In this process they try to identify major new code issues:
There are several ways that the shingle issue could be approached: 1)
prohibition of wood roofing materials; (2) fire ordinances that allow a set
percentage; 3) prohibit wood roofing requirements in covenants so people
can choose to put them on their houses, but are not required to. Jones
said that the discussion will need to be presented to the PFA Board.
Erthal showed an example of an alternative shingle. It is more
costly, but the installation is cheaper and there is a lot less waste.
There is also a life span of 50 years whereas a wood shake shingle only has
a 10 year life. There are also some insurance companies that give reduced
rates for noncombustible wood roofs. Erthal also had brochures of other
alternative shingles.
Erthal stated that in his research he was not successful in getting
cooperation from the Forestry Department at Colorado State University or
the Forest Service in Montana. He did do some independent research and
found out that most of the wood is coming from Oregon, Washington, and
northern California. Cedar trees are very slow -growing and do not readily
return to an area after it is logged. They use old growth trees because
they are less prone to rotting.
LaRue commented that she agreed with Jones that a nice place to start
is to remove the covenant restrictions that people have to have wood
shakes. Erthal stated that he made the same comment at the September
meeting. He added that what drove this topic is that there are
subdivisions in Fort Collins with covenants in Fort Collins that require
cedar shake shingles and nothing else can be used. He stated that the
Board said it wanted to take a proactive stance and this is one place to do
it. If an all-out ban on cedar shakes is not possible he feels that there
could be compromises. Erthal would like to push for an all out ban.
Seattle has already taken a proactive stand for both the fire reasons and
the ecological reasons.
Miller said he would be in favor of going for the building codes to
ban the use of natural wood products on a roof at not only new
construction, but also to stipulate that the existing shake roofs have to
be replaced.
Johnson stated that he thought some good issues were raised and to
move forward on this, it would be good to pick out a few of the cities that
have completely banned the wood shakes and get their resolutions. It would
also be good to get some more information on the old growth forests that
are being affected. He would like to have this issue worked into the
Board's 1993 workplan.
Smith asked about the process for making this happen as an item for
Staff to work on.
Miller asked if the Board had enough of a "handle" on the issue to go
ahead and get some more information from the other cities and then they
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could present a lette to Council, Planning and/ athe PFA Board,
f recommending a code change. Jones stated, that an all-out ban requires an
amendment to the Building Code for new construction. An all-out ban plus a
retroactive requirement to replace a roof with noncombustible materials
would require a special ordinance, in addition to a Building Code change.
Shoemaker stated that in terms of looking at the workload and
established priorities, the Board and Staff are very busy and cannot accept
anymore work items.
Jones stated that everytime they have done their strategic planning
there has been a component that was related to the shingles in relationship
to the codes and standards for fire prevention. He said that if the Board
was willing to give it some time they could see what transpires through the
strategic planning process.
Miller asked if it would be of any value to present the issue to
Council, but not be insistent, that an action be taken within the next year
or so. The Board would then come back in a year or so with a broader agenda
on it. Shoemaker stated that the 1993 workplan would be the place to
revaluate it in terms of other things and start thinking about what actions
the Board would like to take.
Erthal stated that there are some Homeowner's Associations, even
though they know the alternatives, that will not remove the covenants. He
would like to see something presented to Council to raise the issue to put
pressures on the covenants and architectural review boards.
LaRue asked that if they start with the covenants could it be directed
to the Planning Department and skip the Board's part for the time being.
Shoemaker stated that it does not have to be the Natural Resources Division
that implements it, but communication needs to be done with Council.
Council needs to say, "We are going to do this." He stated that the
Planning Department has a full schedule also.
Johnson stated that possibly the Board would not have to lean so much
on Staff and could gather the critical information and then make their
recommendation.
Smith stated that there are alternatives that can be done that would
be minimal work for staff. The Board can develop a lot of the issue
itself. He recommended looking at a time frame, drafting a letter,
bringing the issue to Council as to what the alternatives are, and
potentially asking for consideration of this in detail in the LDGS or
within PFA planning.
Shoemaker stated that this process would take a significant amount of
public involvement. It is not the Board's role to do the whole process.
So, the Board might talk about an "issue paper" that raises the issues and
explores some alternatives. Jones stated that he would be glad to submit a
cover letter on such a paper and present it to the PFA Board.
Miller asked if there would be some kind of environmental affair in
the spring? Shoemaker answered that there will be several things going on
during Earth Week, the Environmental Fair is in the fall, and there is the
Environment Issues, Impacts and Innovations Series throughout the year.
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Smith asked Erthal he was happy with what thr--Board had come up
with. Erthal responded no, that he would like to see more action, because
the timber industry is not being stopped if the Board does not move ahead;
but, he understands the restrictions of time involved. Erthal would like
to see a letter presented to Council to at least get them interested in the
issue.
Smith asked Erthal, with the help of other Boardmembers, to identify
components that would be included in drafting a letter that would be
presented to Council.
Jones reported that the Hazardous Materials Management Plan that the
Board considered two years ago was adopted by Council last year, and is
working. Every week a class is available for different industries. The
format that is being used locally has a chance of being adopted statewide.
He stated that Ron Gonzales, Hazardous Materials Specialist, could come to
a meeting to update the Board on what people have done in the past, and
what they have done to change, since the plan was adopted.
New Business
Rick Ensdorff, Director, Transportation Division, presented NEATS. He
stated that Council asked for the NRAB's recommendation. The study will be
presented to Council December 15, so he would like to receive all
recommendations and comments by December 1.
A citizen committee was formed of a variety of people to conduct the
study, including business people, neighbors, and citizens at large. They
looked at population projections for the area and additional trips that
would be generated in the future. Ensdorff stated that it was an eight -
month process, that included a lot of citizen involvement, and three open
houses.
Ensdorff stated that the emphasis was not just a one-dimensional
approach to transportation planning, but to look at transportation and all
its components. He stated that there is a proposed bikeway system that
includes a couple of things that are different, but is consistent with what
is done in the rest of the City. New collectors and arterials will have
bike lanes. When the opportunity arises they will also work with
development to put bikeways in drainage areas or greenbelts and to connect
them. In addition, the committee felt strongly about using ditches and
canals for bikeways. There has been concern though with liability in using
these, but other Cities have overcome that concern; these areas can provide
unique bikeways and connections.
In the bikeway, sidewalk/pedestrian, and transit plans there are no
major differences from existing City policies. If the City builds a street
they put a sidewalk on it. If it is an arterial street, it is a larger
sidewalk and separated from the roadway, and if it is a collector street
then it is separated and is 5 feet wide.
The committee also worked on a street plan. Ensdorff presented the
Board with a diagram of the street plan. The diagram showed major street
facilities, and minor arterials which basically are collector streets or a
combination. The intent was not to just build the streets, but build them
as development occurs.
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Smith asked if a* the segments within that *ea are now within the
UGA. Ensdorff replied that there is a small section just outside the UGA,
and there are various combinations of City and County jurisdiction.
Ensdorff stated that the County has been involved with the process.
The Commissioners have been briefed twice and they are most concerned with
the bypass.
Johnson said that he liked seeing the bike map because he has ridden
many times on his bike in that area and has had his hair "stand on end" a
few times; so he really likes what is projected for the future.
Johnson asked in regard to the street map, has any thought been given
to extending County Road Nine down to Prospect. If County Road Nine is
carried north/south as opposed to Timberline, it would not have to cross
over some natural areas, whereas with Timberline you would have to.
Ensdorff replied that Timberline was the focus of the committee based on
the fact that it is a "City Choices 95" project that the City is moving
ahead with the connection coming from Prospect to make the alignment. The
committee does have some direction to Council to make sure that there is
enough funding to get it completed.
Ensdorff stated that the connection to Timberline is very important.
The north/south connection of Timberline, has been planned for quite awhile
to be a major facility to take traffic on the east side of town and take
some pressure off of College Avenue.
Erthal asked what thought has been given to reducing congestion on
College Avenue. Ensdorff stated that the study deals with North College
and one of the top issues is an access control plan; where the curbcuts and
the traffic signals are going to be. So in that particular area there are
steps to try and better control and manage traffic. The bigger issue of
providing alternatives that do not require everybody to use College Avenue
comes into play with Timberline as an alternative and improvements on
Lemay.
The whole study included bike, automobile, and transit elements. The
transit plan basically identified what the City has already scheduled to do
with an additional recommendation to work with the County, as Council has
also suggested.
The biggest issue was construction of a by-pass. The committee looked
at a lot of alternatives, and although they decided against building an
interstate type of expressway, they didn't come to consensus on the need
for a by-pass. A variety of alignments were examined for their impact on
truck traffic, existing development, and the environment, and then
whittled down to two options. A nine -member majority of the group voted
for alternative three, and a minority of four members voted for alternative
one.
Alternative one is estimated to cost $10.4 million. It would improve
the existing route along Riverside by widening the intersections at
Mulberry and at College ($7 million) and also realign Lemay Street ($3
million). It assumes that improvements will give 10 more years of service
to the present alignment; a key component of the recommendation is to start
the planning now to construct a bypass north of Douglas Road within the
next 10 years.
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Miller asked if the." pass was built north of DL.glas Road how would
it connect with Highway 287. Ensdorff replied that it was not determined.
The committee looked at that and it is a difficult area; there are a lot of
lakes, and large residential lots that fill in a lot of the area.
The realignment of Lemay is included in both recommendations. It
would move Lemay 1,000 feet to the east, to avoid impacting the
neighborhoods of Alta Vista and Buckingham, and construct an overpass over
the railroad tracks.
Ensdorff stated that if truck traffic were somehow to be reduced,
improvements to the transportation system would not be needed as soon;
trucks require more signal time to get through intersections, reducing
street capacity. They found that 1,000 trucks a day use the route; 80% of
them are moving through while 20% have business in town.
Alternative three is estimated to cost $14.6 million. It assumes
there are not enough trucks and traffic to justify building a by-pass; what
is needed is just a downtown by-pass accomplished by realigning Lemay and
allowing only limited access onto it. The proposal has not pinned down the
west terminus on north College yet, but it would be in the area south of
Conifer Street.
Alternative three has a 20 year life span for re-routing Highway 14
traffic. Ensdorff commented that the majority maintains that we should do
a better job of looking ahead and recommends working with the County to
retain land along Douglas Road now for a future by-pass. He showed an
artist's rendering of alternative three with noise abatement structures and
landscaped medians.
Smith asked if East Vine would become the bypass for most of the truck
traffic. Ensdorff stated that it would stay on Mulberry, Vine is not
considered an alternative. Vine is an arterial so it would be improved and
have connections. Ensdorff added that in analyzing the traffic on
Mulberry, Mulberry can handle the future traffic with some minor changes.
Johnson asked what are the sources for funding. Ensdorff explained
there is very little money to cover either of the options and it will take
a lot of effort by the City and County to obtain funding from the State.
The majority vote thinks that alternative three can be completed in about
seven years, and the minority thinks that alternative one would take about
ten years to complete.
Ensdorff stated that there might be some overlap between the designs.
He added that the costs of purchasing right-of-way for alternative one
makes costs climb. Without the additional land, however, expanding the
intersections is impossible.
Johnson stated that the NRAB's Transportation Committee should gather
comments and draft a letter for the Board's review at the November 4
meeting.
Smith recommended going around the table to hear Boardmember's
comments.
Swope recommended that the alternative chosen be called something
other than alternative three because it is a little confusing.
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McGee stated thdWe likes the proposed by -As and what is in the
ti master plan; bringing the policy plan into reality.
LaRue stated that she liked the future recommendations on the bike
lanes. She also likes alternative three.
Erthal stated that he liked the overall plan. He would like to see
more attention to Lemay to get at what is happening north of town. He
feels you can not separate north and south of town when you have a
population base north Fort Collins traveling south to go shopping and doing
errands. He likes alternative three for the bypass and the cost.
Miller agreed with Erthal regarding alternative three. He is also in
favor of pursuing the utilization of existing canal right of ways.
Friedman liked alternative three also. He agreed with Miller as far
as using existing canal right-of-ways or other right-of-ways for bike paths
that would serve to get bicycles off of a "sharing situation" with cars.
As far as the plan goes, that area of town has been neglected and this is
an excellent plan.
Johnson stated that building in the northeast area, various kinds of
growth, is the "driver" for the plan. Keeping that in mind, as the area is
developed the Board should maybe ask Council to have the development of the
area pay for much of the infrastructure that is going into the area. It
would be a model area to begin to put that in practice.
Friedman agreed with Johnson that if you put something there growth
will follow.
Smith stated that he agreed with the Board and that the integration
with this in terms of how development occurs, how the natural areas will be
affected is very important.
Old Business (oont'd)
Review of Solar Orientation Ordinance
In their mailout the Board received a copy of the Solar Orientation
Ordinance along with a letter from Jan Meisel, Planning Department.
Smith stated that he questions what good the Solar Orientation
Ordinance has done at this point in time. There are some mitigating
effects. Many of the PUD's or developments that have taken place were on
the books and the ordinance came a little late. But, where the Planning
and Zoning Board had the opportunity to reduce those effects by requiring
secondary measures, they did not do so, and in effect even with the
ordinance we were below the previous city average. Smith said he was a
little concerned, he hopes that the low compliance is more due to the fact
that these things were well under way and very difficult to change and that
we will do much better. If we do not do much better we should start to
look at the secondary requirements. The other thing is that a great "hue
and cry" was made when the ordinance was adopted regarding the cost, and
that the effective cost of implementing the ordinance is downplayed in the
whole discussion.
Smith asked what the Board's thoughts were.
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Erthal asked which y ,these projects came to Pl._ ning after the
ordinance took effect. There is no way to rate the ordinance until you see
what has come before Planning and Zoning after the ordinance.
LaRue stated that she is interested in knowing if there is a developer
that always meets the requirements and one who always does not. If there
is someone who always falls below City's expectations, then that person
might need further education.
Swope stated that the key to strengthing the ordinance is to tighten
the restrictions for granting variances.
Johnson stated that the Board should submit a letter expressing
disappointment in the results so far and interest in following the next
audit to see if there are some changes.
Friedman stated that when the ordinance was first presented to Council
for adoption there was some discussion of what the final percentage would
be. The original percentage of 75% got knocked to 55% and then the final
was 65%. It is not known how many of these projects actually were planned
after the ordinance went into effect. But, this report gives pause because
75% was desired and a compromise was reached at 65%. Through the variance
procedure results are down to 52%, which is not much more than what was
occurring automatically without the ordinance being in effect. He stated
that it seems there was much to do about nothing and this did not
accomplish anything.
Smith stated that he will draft a letter. He will ask Joe Frank or
Jan Meisel from Planning Department what their comments are.
Water Treatment Plant /1
Smith stated that the Board did an extremely good job and he has heard
good responses from a lot of people. So now the Board needs to figure out
the next plan of action.
Miller stated that there is a lot of interest, most people are
wondering how the process is going to happen from here on, and
unfortunately the Board is not in a position to tell them, at present.
Miller stated that more concerns came up at the September 16 meeting
in that a representative from Greeley raised the concern that their intake
structure is just downstream from the Fort Collins facility and any
construction work that takes place in the river could cause a sedimentation
problem.
Johnson stated that there is a slide show that LaRue put together from
the tours. Miller and Johnson put together a poster display that shows
some of the area for the public to view.
Shoemaker stated that overall his perception is that the Board is on
the right track. He said Mike Smith, Water and Wastewater, is pleased with
the process.
Johnson stated that he gave a presentation to the Optimist Club in
September and they are also interested in getting the information out to
the public.
Smith said Frank Lancaster, Director of Larimer County Natural
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Resources, wrote a leer apologizing for not be* able to attend the
meeting since he was out of town.
Smith stated that a collation of the commentary that was generated
during the tours, meeting, and subsequent discussion, needs to be put
together for interested parties.
Smith stated that the Board should present the collation to Council
and state what the Board believes can be done.
Johnson agreed, and said that Council has been positive in the past
and after they receive the Board comments, efforts should be made to open
it up to the public, possibly in the early spring.
Smith recommended having a worksession October 21 to work on the
report and to work on the Board's workplan for 1993.
Committee Reports
Smith stated that committees need to be thinking of their workplans
for 1993 and be ready to work on them at the worksession. Staff will
provide copies of the committee's workplans from 1992.
Shoemaker will also get a rough idea of items from "key" departments
that intend to come to the Board in 1993.
Johnson distributed a letter to the Board regarding a recommendation
from the Parks and Recreation Board (P&R Board) supporting the Citizen
Initiated Ordinance on the Proposed Quarter -cent Sales and Use Tax for
Natural Areas. The P&R Board passed it 9:0. The Board asked that Council
authorize the name "The Fort Collins Parks and Recreation Board" be used as
supporting this ordinance. If Council is not inclined to take a position
of advocacy with regard to this ballot issue, the Board, in alternative,
asked that Council permit the Board to do so.
Johnson asked Boardmembers if the NRAB would like to take the same
action.
Shoemaker stated that there will be a resolution on Council's October
20, agenda regarding Council's support of the ordinance.
Smith stated that in terms of actions the Board can take, the
alternatives are: 1) request that Council support the sales tax initiative
for natural areas, and 2) instead of asking for the right of advocacy, just
state the Board's support for P&R Board in their action.
Shoemaker stated that what the P&R Board is doing is asking Council if
it is within their charter.
Erthal moved and Friedman seconded that the NRAB recommend to Council
to support the quarter -cent sales and use tax for natural areas. The
motion was unanimously approved.
Erthal moved and Miller seconded that the NRAB ask Council to allow
the Board to take an advocacy position on the ballot initiative similar to
P&R Board.
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Shoemaker restated . it the way the NRAB and
that Council should take a position and speak for
it Boards and Commissions. He said that Council
that; historically they have not taken a position
on October 6 did not take a position. So what P&
The motion was passed unanimously.
Shoemaker will draft the letter to Council.
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Miller stated that he attended the Boards and Commissions Chair
meeting on October 2. Diane Jones presented the Cost of Development
study; Miller asked Shoemaker to include the information presented in a
Board mailing. Shoemaker stated that the current emphasis is on the actual
cost of developments as they come in, or an initial base -line study, and
beyond that there are questions about impacts of development. It is
described as three phases.
Staff will provide the Board with the new information that is
available.
Miller stated that the Cost of Development Study needs to progress in
the new Council's term.
Miller stated that the Poudre River Landscape Opportunity Study had an
open house August 19 where the public could review the data bases, maps,
etc. and offer comments. They are anticipating a final public report will
be out soon. The report will include comments from the open house as well
as the July 9 workshop, interview results, and a background brief
addressing historic data and existing conditions within the study area. He
asked Shoemaker to provide copies for the Board.
LaRue stated that she, Friedman, Knudsen, and Bothwell attended the
Boards and Commissions workshop sponsored by City Attorney's office on
September 30.
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m.
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