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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTransportation Board - Minutes - 12/16/1998E Draft minutes to be approved by the Transportation Board at their January 20, 1999 meeting. REGULAR MEETING MINUTES of the TRANSPORTATION BOARD December 16,1998 5:30 P.M. BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: ABSENT: Alan Beatty Mark Egeland Sara Frazier Dan Gould Steve Hanna Bruce Henderson Tim Johnson, Chair (416-0821) Ray Moe Chris Ricord Brent Thordarson Heather Trantham IN ATTENDANCE: Gary Diede Susanne Edminster Wendy Meyer Ron Phillips Staff Liaison: Randy Hensley, 416-2058 Chair Johnson called the meeting to order at 5:50 p.m. I. APPROVAL OF MINUTES There was a motion and a second to approve the November 18, 1998 Transportation Board meeting minutes as presented The motion carried by a unanimous vote. PUBLIC HEARING ON THE NORTHEAST TRUCK ROUTE STUDY a. Staff Presentation - Daggett/Moe John Daggett and Ray Moe presented to the Transportation Board the history of the study and the process that was followed that resulted in the four alternative routes being proposed. Transportation Reartl Regular 11881111 Illl9tes 8ece.ber18.1998 Paso Both the Citizens Advisory Committee and the Technical Advisory Committee reviewed the study and ranked the four alternatives as follows: • Modified Vine • Vine • Mulberry/Timberline/Vine • Mulberry/Lemay/Vine b. Public Comment 1. Ron Alexander (NE resident) - against all four proposals; in favor of true bypass. 2. John Malescky (SW resident) - in favor of current bypass; against all four proposals. 3. Don Horak (NE resident) - in favor of alternative two; build least expensive. 4. George Thornton (NE resident) - against all four proposals. 5. Bev Wyson (NE resident) - against all four proposals; in favor of true bypass. 6. Marilyn Roberts (NW resident) - protect historic district. 7. Helen Aragon (NE resident) - against Vine route. 8. Paul Wedocock (NW resident) - make right decision, not popular one. 9. Ed Supora - Alternative one more advisable. 10. Delores Williams (NE resident) - in favor of true bypass. 11. Jim Hess - concerned landowner; route severely damages his land. 12. Morey Albertson - questions unit costs and dismissal of Owl Canyon route. 13. Patricia Music - concerned about Plummer Schoolhouse. 14. Jack Luther (NE resident) - concerned about cost figures; gross vehicle weight issue; supports existing bypass on I25. 15. James Mondragon (Andersonville/Alta Vista representative) - against all four alternatives; concerned about impact on community. 16. John Kefalas (NW resident) - against all four proposals; consider other solutions - incentives for truck haulers; gross vehicle weight (change legislation). 17. Lou Stitzel - concerned about affordable housing that would be taken and not replaced. 18. Judy Sorbidum - concerned about air pollution effects on Poudre River Corridor; supports bypass further north. 19. JoAnn Rogers (NE resident) - Council for True Bypass rejects all four proposals - has 1100+ signatures on petitions. rn.sperindeo Burr 8eplsr Muting Mloeus buEber 18.180i rue 3 20. Margaret Guzman (Alta Vista resident) - against all four proposals; concerned that bypass is more important than community. 21. Dick Dunn - identical solutions rejected in 1992 Choices 95 selection process. 22. Swede Anderson - Council for True Bypass has 1500 signatures against all four proposals and supports building bypass further north; questions costs, pollution, noise mitigation measures. 23. Steve Berkowski - against all four proposals. 24. Marc Engemoen (Larimer County Public Works Director) - questioned CDOT position on proposals; Highway 14 redesignation, maintenance issues, and interchange/frontage road usage by trucks issues. 25. Lane Austerberry - against all four proposals. 26. David Lauer (Water Board member) - consider neighborhoods decision will impact; they are invaluable. 27. Lonnie Alexander - questioned city's desire to have bypass within city limits. BREAK - 8:00 p.m. to 8:10 p.m. C. Board discussion/Q&A period Johnson- How are costs found for Own Canyon alternative? Daggett - Denver firm gave "best guess." Other factors were considered that made Owl Canyon fatally flawed. Johnson - What about state and federal funds used to share in cost? Daggett - Funding requests are part of regional competitive process. Projects are scored and ranked and priority list is established. Johnson- What about incentives to keep trucks on 125? Daggett - Automated weigh stations are coming online and Wyoming and Colorado Dept. of Highways are talking about working together to create more incentives. More aggressive enforcement also an option. Tax-free gas station idea was rejected. Trantham - Regarding existing neighborhoods, how would flood plain be changed if road was built? Daggett - Currently working with Stormwater Department to manage water in Dry Creek area. Andersonville and Alta Vista effected by Poudre River flood plain and this wouldn't solve those problems. Trantham - What geotechnical studies have been done? Daggett - Studies are in process. Larimer County is taking the lead. iraosperwdeo Beard 89911ar Needoe moms 8ecember18.1998 rasa Egeland - Unclear on underpasses and when would Vine Drive be built per Master Street Plan? Daggett- Vine Drive will be built as development occurs per street oversizing. Moe - Regarding underpasses, Timberline/Vine is same in all alternatives. Needed to accommodate additional traffic. Can't widen road at grade without grade separation. Minimizes impact; provides continuity. Thordarson - What percentage of 400 through trucks are subject to 85,000 lb. limit? Daggett - We assume that all trucks are 80,000 lb. Thordarson - Is there any effort to make weight limits the same? Moe - No. Weight limits established for decades. Department of Revenue not considering that. Thordarson - Regarding distances in right-of-way. What was right-of-way used in Alta Vista - where is middle? Moe - Alta Vista distance was to right-of-way so there would be additional buffer. Thordarson - Regarding noise vs. speed - what would be recommended speed? Moe - possibly 40-45 mph. Thordarson - How many decibels would go down with a corresponding reduction in speed? Moe - Experts say possibly 3 - 5 decibels. Most of the noise is tire noise, hence mitigation. Gould - If there is a change in designation of the highway, could trucks still use old highway? Daggett - Yes. Anywhere from 100 to 200 would stay on Mulberry. Possibly 1,000 would be diverted. Gould - Would specific laws apply? Daggett - If trucks don't have specific destination, laws would apply, but would require enforcement. Ricord - Regarding using frontage road and maintenance. Daggett - Discussed phasing. Ricord - If Timberline selected, end goal would be to connect it to I25 through East Vine. Daggett - If selected, yes. Regarding frontage road, CDOT says frontage road used in the past. Ricord - Regarding damage to buildings due to truck traffic - is it velocity or volume of trucks going past? iraoseortaUse Beard Boeolor Needoe Nloates BecemBer19.1998 rNei Daggett - It's speed and weight. Issue for Jefferson and Riverside is that road is connected to gutter, which is connected to sidewalk, which is connected to building. Ricord - Seems like City has agenda to have folks align themselves with one of the Vine alternatives. Daggett - There has been no discussion at the staff and consultant levels in that vein. Frazier - Concerned about accessibility with regard to underpasses/overpasses. Moe - Future refinement of plan will be made with accessibility as a key factor. Frazier - Wondered about unit costs for Owl Canyon. Daggett - Provided Coalition with basic information on how numbers were calculated. Beatty - Has there been discussion with truckers association - lobbying to encourage truckers to use other options? Moe - We will continue to pursue those discussions. Gould - East Vine Drive region - what is present potential for residential development in light of drainage issues? Daggett - Some development under review currently. Alta Vista cannot rebuild due to flood plan. If Dry Creek drainage problem solved, may be able to develop. Gould - If changes or improvements made to Dry Creek and Poudre River area, could there be development there? Daggett - Some solutions being considered are channeling water, and possibly drying up area so development can occur. It would be very expensive. Ricord - Regarding Building Community Choices, how many pieces were in that package? Daggett - Eight projects. Ricord - NE truck route study was only one of eight. Daggett - Yes, but funds not split into eighths. Ricord - Did the cost of Owl Canyon proposal include environmental mitigation costs? Daggett - $5 million was allocated for environmental mitigation. Ricord - More trucks are using Vine Drive now. Any idea why? Daggett - Educated guess would be that trucks want to avoid downtown and are avoiding the scales. Traaelemtlea Beard Regular Meedul Ninon December 1B.1DBB reoe e Ricord - Regarding Alternative 4, Master Street Plan provides for Vine Drive to be a four lane arterial. Correct? Daggett - It would stay four lanes until 2020, but would expand in the future. Ricord - Initial cost reflects four lanes. Daggett - Yes. Henderson - Have studies been done to show if noise mitigation successful? Moe - Yes. Science of noise mitigation has improved greatly over last decade and standards are set to meet those improvements. Henderson - Has wildlife impacts been considered by Natural Resources Board? Daggett - Natural Resources Advisory Board considered it and had no issues with any of the four alternatives. Henderson. - Regarding automation of Fort Collins port - any estimate on the difference in traffic patterns and impacts? Daggett - Only anecdotal - for the most part, larger firms will incorporate transponders into their equipment. Independent truckers will not, typically. Truckers not using I25 are the independents. Hanna - Regarding 85,000 lb. issue - if bypass was built w/state/federal fund to address regional truck issue, to be effective, it would have to continue past I25 to some other destination. Correct? Daggett - Really 3 options - phasing ... divert 85,000 lb. trucks so that they connect with Highway 14 and continue east. Two miles of improved road to handle 85,000 lb. trucks. Interim phase could act as 85,000 lb. phase as long as road was viable - assuming City would maintain stretches of road that were abandoned by the State. Or improve quality of frontage road. Hanna - If Owl Canyon was an option, how would trucks get back to Highway 14. Daggett - Owl Canyon option would have to have road improved. Hanna - It could serve 85,000 lb. trucks. Daggett - Lots of road would have to be built. Hanna - Seems like that's what community wants. Has due diligence been served - has State/Federal authorities been contacted and have they definitely said they will not do that? Moe - Mr. Daggett described adding 10 -15 miles of new road. Still more issues. The State will not add any more miles onto its system. Hanna - How can this be documented? Moe - It's the State's policy. It has not added miles to the system in decades. 1-1 Treoaorades Bard Bgoar Wedso Biloeas Bomber 16,1998 rea 1 Hanna - Opposition to Vine - is it true that if trucks weren't involved, the community would be accepting of the expansion of Vine? Daggett - There are a number of factors to consider. Fear of not knowing what's going to happen is one. Vine corridor might become Mulberry corridor. Talking about 3,000 average daily trips moving to Vine from Mulberry corridor. Development in this area will happen. City needs to manage the change. Hanna - Regarding current route, the City's desire is to grow downtown area and move the trucks. Are there factual reasons why trucks can't continue to go down Riverside? Daggett - City staff is charged with creating a pedestrian environment, removing vibration, solving railroad issues. Hanna - The thrust behind all this is future vision of downtown. Daggett - Yes, and preservation of historic district. The Board discussed process. Decided to continue with question and answer and try to formulate a recommendation. Johnson- Regarding use of frontage road with Vine alternative. Costs with Alternative 3 include Vine interchange. That interchange wouldn't be needn't at this time. Daggett - Correct. Johnson- Concerning neighborhoods - how many houses would be lost if Master Street Plan was built versus Alternatives 1 and 3? Daggett - If Master Street Plan were built, 15 homes would be taken. Fifteen as a result of the Vine alternative - the same number. Modified Vine is 7. and Mulberry/Timberline/Vine alternative is 5. Mulberry/Lemay alternative is 0. Johnson- Master Street Plan and Vine are most destructive in terms of home taken. Egeland - People are asking for Owl Canyon alternative. Although still debating the cost whether $90 - 120 million is accurate, the cost to build a facility to get trucks back down to State/Federal highway system is not a cost built into that 90-120 figure. Daggett.- Correct. The cost of doubling the length of road - an estimated 12 miles (Colorado Lien idea would add 14-15 miles) is not included. Egeland - It would be at least 12 miles longer to get them to State highway system. People would just come down through Fort Collins. Tnes9eradon 9serd 9eeoler Meedee Mleates 9seesber16.1998 Pees e Daggett - Regional trucks could take bypass, but assumes their destination is north. Egeland - People are saying either Vine alternative would be two bypasses. Two-thirds of truck traffic would continue to use current route. Bypass north would be marginally used. According to Master Street Plan, 15 homes could be impacted. Development is held in check due to flood plain issues with Dry Creek - when that's fixed (5-10 yrs due to financing), it would open that area for more development. Daggett - The real difficulty is grade separation for development. The cost would be approximately $16-17 million for each. Egeland - Regarding air quality - numbers really reflect car traffic, not truck traffic. What do you think will happen with air quality? Daggett - Air quality is related to congestion. Designed as urban arterial, it will have a higher rate of air pollution than if we build enhanced roadways as suggested. Egeland - Regarding physical constraints - what are opportunities to widen existing route in old town area? Daggett - Would have to take historic buildings. But would still have issue of rail road tracks, plus bridges, expensive design problems. Phillips - With regard to Mark's first question regarding Owl Canyon, there are several fatal flaws with Owl Canyon. Wasn't discarded lightly. Examined with great detail. Truckers run on a mileage scale. Shorter to go through Fort Collins for mileage reasons. Hard to get truckers to go the long way. Vine Drive is in the Master Street Plan as a four -lane arterial. City is trying to find an acceptable alternative that doesn't damage the neighborhood and avoid the railroad tracks, etc. Thordarson - What is minimum speed that can be applied to Vine alternative and still be accepted by CDOT? Moe - Would be 40 mph. Look at the competition - route you have now is less than that. Thordarson - Do you have a strong feeling that this would ever need to be six - lanes? Moe - There can be 36,000 vehicles on a 4-lane roadway at maximum. Right now, looking at Vine, with build out, estimate 22,000 - 25,000 vehicles. Don't see a need 6-lane road. El Trass9srtaden Bard 9sealar Msstlad NoMs 8sssalhsr181998 pass Thordarson - If committed to City Plan, should 4-lanes be adequate - using alternative modes, etc.? If Master Street Plan goes through, Vine all the way to Interstate, not part of interstate system, would truckers use that anyway? Daggett - Trucks use Vine today, and it's not a nice way to go. Ricord - Would like to see figures that adequately address the issues of the cost of a complete Owl Canyon alternative, add to the $90-120 million estimate to bring alignment down to Highway 14 - and that becomes the cost of Owl Canyon alternative. Need that number to be able to complete discussion. Frazier - Thanks for Ron's clarification. What is staff s recommendation and why? Moe - Looking at all alternatives - considering impacts, Vine alternative has significantly more impacts. Considering costs, modified Vine has higher cost, but less impacts. Those are conclusions we saw from CAC and TAC. TAC recommended Alternative 1. It felt that in addition to the fact that it is $12 -13 million less, the offset of impacts to Alta Vista and Andersonville neighborhoods are more powerful. Lemay alternative still has problem with Lemay/Harmony intersection - tie in at Vine and impacts on neighborhood. Lemay going N, W - didn't fair as well. Basing decision just on cost - Vine alternative is best. Basing decision on mitigation impacts - Modified Vine. Beatty - How many trucks are at 85,000 lb. going through Fort Collins? Daggett - Between 1/3 of estimate. Beatty - Trucks between 80,000-85,000 lbs? Daggett - Some of the long -haul trucks are over 80,000 and majority of regional haulers are over 80,000 - representing about 1/3. Beatty - 400+ trucks are 80,000+ lbs. Henderson - Looking at Master St Plan for Vine, and comparing it to Alternative 1, how many stoplights would be on that alternative? Daggett - Master Street Plan hasn't been fully designed all the way across. Alternative 1 would have the possibility of seven lights. Henderson - In terms of traffic flow, is there much difference between Master Street Plan and Alternative 1? Daggett - Yes, standard is for urban arterial, would have access point every 660 feet. Henderson - On handout with homes displaced, the Master Street Plan would come first, and this would be in addition. Trannertetleo 9eerd 9e9eler Nee1119 Mleetee 9eoesier19.1999 hoe le Daggett - No, if you built Master Street Plan, this is how many homes would be taken. Build Vine, 15 homes would be taken. Even if you build Alternative 1, still building Vine Drive. Hanna - If Vine is declared as truck route, would Riverside be assigned a nontruck route? Would trucks be ticketed? Daggett - Short answer, yes. Mulberry would be assigned as bus route. Then trucks who have deliveries in city could still take it. Estimate 200 trucks. d. Board action Johnson - There needs to be a sense of direction for Council. Board has been looking at costs for past two years. Cost of street capital, maintenance, operations, etc. We are finding that next 8 years has a projected $90 million in needs. Identified street oversizing funds and 1/4 cent sales tax funds totaling $43 million of the $90 million for 8 years. There is $5 1/2 million a year for next 8 years for all street capital. All monies received from State vehicle and registration taxes goes to maintenance - nothing is available for street capital. Very limited amount of money available for dealing with Owl Canyon alternative. Funding isn't there. Owl Canyon fails financially and environmentally. Board should not consider northern bypass option. Ricord - I move that Board removes the Owl Canyon option for further discussion. A second on the motion was made by Gould. Board Discussion: Hanna - Owl Canyon is clearly outside resources of City. If we try to get a definitive answer from State that they will not fund that option, then City should take care of its own problems. Gould - Bypass vs. what really needs to be done for growth management relative to traffic - two separate issues. Should always try to work toward displacing long -haul trucks in all areas. Immediate problems with traffic that have negative impacts on existing neighborhoods. Board should reflect sentiment that supports displacing truck traffic to I25 and using all incentives possible. Separate issue is how to deal with traffic patterns that are presently a major problem and in coming years. iaospnstbo curd bsolor Mootlq Moms 18costortli.1988 NN11 Opportunity of these planning efforts can yield as many positive features as possible - all modes of transportation and connections of neighborhoods should be put on the table. Get full benefits of City Plan. Look for combination of benefits. Thordarson - Projects like Owl Canyon hasn't risen to the top of regional planning efforts. This is probably the only way it would get funding. Egeland - Agree with those comments. Opportunity to have a discussion now to work on other issues. Citizen groups could add these issues to their agenda when talking with legislators. Still doesn't fix problem that is generated today and in the future by people living in Fort Collins. Johnson- Call the question: delete Owl Canyon from further consideration as a recommendation to City Council? All in favor - 9 All opposed -1 Motion carries. Johnson- What we recommend needs to serve 95% of all residents, needs to serve all modes. Look at four alternatives and issues of neighborhoods, the Master Street Plan, do -nothing -option - takes the most residences. Need clarification on Alternative 1 and a solution for dealing with the last mile to connect vehicles to Highway 14 be identified. Other comments? Beatty - On Vine Street, with City Plan, does that show an interchange with 125? Daggett - It does. Beatty - Does it show underpasses and overpasses? Daggett - It shows grade separations at Timberline and Lemay as part of City Plan. Ricord - Have concerns about Alternative 4 - Vine straight through - with impacts to existing and proposed neighborhoods. Alta Vista and Andersonville neighborhoods. This is one that is most problematic with respect to City Plan. City Plan seeks to connect community and disallows separators. Alternative 4 has Vine as a community separator. This alternative is least worthy of Board's consideration. Trampertatleo Beard Regular 11001181 Rlioates Recemberle.199e Pam12 Gould - My comments are the reverse. Modified Vine Alternative and also Alternative 3 have the most possibility in making gains in relieving Alta Vista and Andersonville of hostile traffic conditions presently existing at Lemay and Vine. They would make it beneficial to start enhancing walking and pedestrian conditions in moving between neighborhoods. That area could be ideal to focus on adding medium level residential and mixed -use commercial development as it is close to downtown. Within Alternatives I and 3 are the beginnings of doing more proactive planning on how neighborhoods could be more cohesive - advantageous location relative to City center and other transportation corridors - Mason Street, etc. Opportunities there are worth looking at. As members of community, that present route, Mulberry/Jefferson/N. College, impacts are large to neighborhoods. Downtown area is an economic value - moving around as a pedestrian is difficult and is hindering further development. Worth thinking about if present situation there are acceptable. Thordarson - In looking at all alternatives, and doing nothing, if Master Street Plan occurs, the truck route by default will be Vine. Any of the alternatives besides Vine route, might not go to use intended. I'm looking more favorably at Alternative I - Modified Vine. Take opportunity now to make this corridor something that's integrated with neighborhoods there now and future neighborhoods. It could be nice amenity to community. Henderson - Alternative I - Modified Vine - best chance of influencing truckers to use as it as it seems like the most straight through shot and least impact to neighborhoods. Problem is that interchange w/I25 would need to be done to make it attractive, therefore, Alternatives 2 or 3 might be better. Johnson - Several things to consider - negative features of Vine by itself. Would like to entertain a motion to remove that alternative. Ricord - Motion to strike Alternative 4 from further consideration by the Board. A second on the motion was made by Henderson. No discussion. All in favor - 10 All opposed - 0 Motion carries unanimously. Treeseertadia Burr Ieeeler eleetiie eleelee Ieamber16 lose Paola Johnson- Suggestion for Alternatives 1, 2,3 - with regard to Alternatives 1 & 3, I suggest that if they go forward for further study, they go forward with the proviso that the Master Street Plan for Vine be deleted from the point where Vine departs from its original alignment, would not be built out to four lanes and would be a two lane culdesac and a quiet street, as would Lemay, for neighborhoods. Would like to see that linked to Alternatives I and 3, with removal of the 4-lane requirement for Vine from the Master Street Plan. Egeland - Clarify that we would recommend to Council that consideration, not making any decision. Johnson- Yes, our function is advisory. Thordarson - Motion that we recommend to Council that Alternatives 1 and 3 proceed forward for further consideration with the attached suggestion that Vine Drive be removed from the Master Street Plan as a four -lane arterial where the alignment departs from the present Vine Drive. A second on the motion was made by Egeland. Discussion: Ricord - Can we amend that motion and include Alternative 2 as it is? Thordarson - I'm okay with that in terms in removing Vine from Master Street Plan. Alternative 2 is somewhat different in terms of moving on for further consideration. That should be a separate motion Ricord - I'll make that motion next. Johnson- Motion is to forward for further study Alternatives 1 and 3 with Vine as a four -lane arterial being removed from the Master Street Plan at the point where Vine departs with its current alignment. Discussion: Gould - Seems like a sensible motion. Alternatives 1 and 3 have special impacts and the same effects on the neighborhoods - has unifying effect. Whereas, Alternative 2 doesn't have that same effect of unifying the neighborhoods. Alternatives 1 & 3 have special neighborhood unifying effect. Removing that part from Master Street Plan seems applicable. Treat Alternative 2 separate. Tnsspertatles 981ri 9e9eler Meetle9 911estes 9eceetbsr19.1999 h1e14 Call the question: All those in favor -10 All opposed - 0 Motion carries unanimously. Ricord - Motion that alternative 2 be carried to Council for further consideration as it is represented on staff memorandum. A second on the motion was made by Henderson. Discussion: Beatty - I oppose this motion. We've complained for several years that we do not have arterial east/west highways in the City. Still have that complaint. Traffic is not moving well going east/west. Vine has opportunity to make that connection, at least in northern corridor. I think it should remain as a potential arterial for the future. If we start saying we will chop it to a two-lane culdesac, that defeats the rationale of trying to get traffic moving out of the City on an east/west corridor. Egeland - Sounds more like Alternative 1 rather than Alternative 2. Modified Vine shows possibility of having East Vine as a culdesac. Alternative 2 incorporates Lemay and there is a connection that goes straight through on Vine. Connection isn't there for old Lemay, but with the understanding that alternative 2, it would be a two-lane street, not a four -lane street. Beatty - Under City Plan, Vine goes to four lanes, potentially six lanes, straight into College. Is that correct? Daggett - Under City Plan, the current Master Street Plan, Vine Drive is a four -lane major urban arterial straight through from I25 to College Avenue. Regarding Alternative 2 - Vine Drive is four lanes to the intersection of Vine and Lemay, then two lanes from there west to College Avenue. Beatty - Under City Plan, Vine would be four lanes from Lemay to College Avenue. Daggett - Yes. Beatty - I'm opposed to dropping Vine to two lanes. Moe - A point of clarification - under City Plan, we only have one facility. Under this Alternative, we're providing a second facility. Beatty - Is Vine going to be two lanes or four lanes to College under Alternative 2? • 11 Tresspertedes Bard 80901sr Meetle9 Minutes December It1998 ro"15 Moe - It will be 2 lanes between College and Lemay, but there would be a four lane section on the segment that parallels Vine to the north. Beatty - So that really is in opposition to City Plan. City Plan provides for four lanes to College. So, in effect, it eliminates a piece of City Plan. Daggett - To clarify, Mr. Beatty is objecting to the downgrading of Vine Drive from Lemay to College to two lanes. Beatty - Yes, I am. Ricord - Mr. Daggett, could you clarify the difference between Alternatives 1, 2 & 3, from a point on College Avenue and Vine to Lemay and Vine. Daggett - Alternatives 1 & 3 downgrade the section of Vine between N. College and Lemay and actually make a culdesac on that street and create a two-lane residential road, as well as old northbound Lemay alignment would be a two-lane residential road that is culdesaced on the north. In Alternative 2, Vine Drive actually goes through the intersection as four lanes east of Lemay and two lanes west of Lemay to College. Ricord - So, objections to Alternative 2 also apply to Alternatives 1 & 3 then? Daggett - There is even more of a cutoff in Alternatives 1 & 3 in the sense that there is no road that goes through at all. Ricord - So the connectivity issue on the existing Vine alignment would be nonexistent in Alternatives 1 & 3. Johnson- Other discussion on motion to send Alternative 2 to Council? Henderson - The reason I like sending Alternative 2 is that it has no impact in removing houses, and Alternative 2 may become reality anyway. Truckers may find that going to Mulberry to Lemay is just as good as going down Mulberry to Timberline. Egeland - The reason I don't like Alternative 2 is that there were many issues brought up with the intersection at a meeting held last night. Thordarson - Concerned with Alternative 2 as you still have the alternative of going through neighborhoods west of Lemay. Through traffic will find this route desirable. Gould - Should separate Alternatives 1 & 3 from 2. Alternative 2 has significant disadvantages, in terms of promotion of unification of the neighborhoods. From neighborhood impacts, Alternative 2 is less desirable than 1 & 3. Rather see its disadvantages be acknowledged somehow in terms of neighborhood impacts. Transportation Beard 1e9olor Moodo9 Mlnotn Becomber1B.1998 Penn Is Hanna - Opposed to Alternative 2 because of growth in northeast. Those people will want to get to College and how are they going to get there? Alternative 3 is really City's best long-term option. Thordarson - Alternative 2 looks like something that is directed to moving trucks through Fort Collins - doesn't seem to fit with how we want northeast part of town to build out. Alternatives 1 and 3 fit better with how we want people to move through town. Johnson - Call the question. All in favor - 2 All opposed - 7 Motion fails. Johnson- Regarding Alternative 1, how do trucks get to Highway 14? Is there a motion to have staff bring that information forward? Gould - Seems premature to look into detail - there are significant tradeoffs - cost of interchange, increased complexity of route regarding this alternative. I think we should wait, then prioritize. Not prepared to make a recommendation. Johnson- I will be looking for that information in the fixture - how it connects. Ricord- Regarding Alternative 1, concerned connectivity. Agreed with similarities between Alternatives 1 & 3. Have problem with Alternative and how to make the connection. I would consider sending it forward with proviso of two lane change and mention of connectivity problem also. Gould - Alternative 1 doesn't actually physically go through existing neighborhood, but in future it will. Needs to be considered and designed right - could be negative. Limited access for car traffic. Bicycle and pedestrian connections should be emphasized. Johnson- Concerned that it serve all modes, not just trucks. It is necessary to keep track of these issues as it proceeds forward. Ricord - In lieu of failure of Alternative 2 - would Board consider a no - build scenario along with Alternatives 1 and 3? Egeland - When we do or do not like something - I think Council wants to see what we've seen. These are our thoughts about these particular issues. Even though no -build option is not up here, it's still possible. Ricord - But that possibility is something the Board clearly recognizes. Tramorutlss Board Bseslsr Nsstlp Wastes Bsosstsr18.1888 rassn Johnson- No -build scenario is part of Master Street Plan. Do we want to forward that as a motion. Gould - Do you want to recommend a no -build scenario? Ricord - Recommend it for City Council consideration. Gould - I assume they already have that under consideration. We should discuss what is the impact of a no -build scenario. Community - wide effect of downtown, eastside neighborhoods. Shouldn't accept that scenario to get ride of those negatives. Ricord - Give funding deficits - just leave option on table. Not making a motion. Egeland - As a Board, we should make a recommendation that there be a no - build scenario. Thordarson - No -build is a fallback on Master Street Plan and will have very significant impact on neighborhoods. Thordarson - Motion to forward a no -build scenario to City Council for further consideration. A second on the motion was made by Gould. No discussion. All in favor - 9 All opposed - 1 Motion carries. Gould - Should we identify, given that we are highlighting Alternatives 1 and 3 as having advantageous, special attention for neighborhoods on either side, that roadway not serve as physical barrier to pedestrian and bicycles trying to move through community. I make a motion that with regard to Alternatives 1 & 3, special attention be paid to when there are neighborhoods on either side of the road, special opportunities be examined to connect those neighborhoods. A second on the motion was made by Trantham. No discussion. All in favor -10 All opposed - 0 Motion carries unanimously. Transeertaden Bard Beeller Meedoe Mlooles 90esN8er18.1998 reM18 Johnson- Board appreciates everyone who is here. Beginning of the meeting has public comment period. Public is welcome to come again and raise issues for discussion. The Board meets the third Wednesday every month in the CIC room of City Hall at 5:30 p.m. l o f-ifIrb e u V. BOARD MEMBER REPORTS Hanna - article in Denver Post on "School Pool" and regional council of government. Matches up parents and students to car pool to school. There are 50 schools and 50 families in Denver participating. City should consider something like that in Fort Collins. Article will be included in next month's packet. Frazier - attended four out of five transportation meetings. Will report at next meeting. VI. STAFF REPORTS • Hensley -- A transportation finance subcommittee meeting will be scheduled the first week in January. Transit initiative will be focus and what is developing. Slide program has been developed. Update on activities of citizens group, a few minor things regarding the presentations. Edminster -- Board will be receiving an invitation to the groundbreaking ceremony for the new Civic Center Parking Structure, held as part of First Night Celebration on December 31 at 3:00 p.m. at the LaPorte/America lot. CAC Truck Route meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, January 6. NEXT AGENDA: • Bike route on east side of town. • Revisit Truck Route Study decision and discussion. • Transit initiative update. None. There being no other business, the meeting adjourned at 11:30 p.m. 04/l Wendy M er 6d Administrative Assistant