HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 09/21/2005City of Fort Collins
Cultural, Library, and Recreational Services
Golf Board
Minutes: Regular Meeting of September 21, 2005
Council Liaison to the Board: Councilmember Diggs Brown
Staff Support to the Board: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf at 221-6350, and Dawn
Worth, Administrative Aide at 416-2265
Call Meeting to Order: Board Chairperson David Johnson called the meeting to order at
7:30 p.m. at the City Park Nine Clubhouse.
Agenda Review: There were no changes to the agenda as printed.
Items of Note:
• Larry Buckendorf and Deron Grothe called to inform us that they will be unable
to make the meeting.
• Jerry informed the Board that the Annual Boards and Commissions Event will
take place on November 9, 2005.
Approval of Minutes: On a motion by Grant Sherwood, seconded by Jay Kammerzell,
the Board unanimously (7:0) approved the Minutes of the August 17, 2005 Regular
Meeting.
Citizen Participation: None
Golf "Marketing" Ideas
Jerry reviewed the Minutes that were taken at the Golf Board "Marketing" Brainstorming
Committee Meeting that took place on September 15, 2005. Jerry brought up the
discussion of partnering with other entities. Jerry feels that we really haven't benefited
much from partnering in the past and the main reason we currently have something set up
with Poudre School District is because the Parks and Recreation department has had a
reciprocal agreement with them for usage of facilities. He also mentioned the suggestion
of asking the schools to tee off at an earlier time. Grant Sherwood asked if CSU was
utilizing the courses? Jerry stated that City Park Nine Golf Professional David McCleave
teaches CSU classes. Jerry informed the Board that we are offering a coupon to CSU
students from September thru December for play at Collindale and City Park Nine and
that seems to be working well. Jerry then mentioned the discussion of changing the colors
of the tee markers. Dan Preble stated that he knows people who associate the tee markers
as men's and women's based on the color. Lauren DeRosa suggested that we try to reach
out to the CSU employees in addition to the students. Jerry asked SouthRidge Golf
Professional Dale Smigelsky how many events CSU departments have had in the last few
years? Dale said that they have about five a year, but they do come out and play. Lauren
said that she has noticed that in spring and early summer the courses are full of teachers
and maybe if there was a shorter tenn league they would participate. Dave Johnson said
that we could go to them and suggest that they put together a spring league. Dale asked
Collindale Golf Professional Jim Greer if CSU had a league at Collindale and Jim said
they didn't. Jerry stated that once we started to loose play we began to focus more on
leagues because they are a guaranteed source of revenue. Jerry asked the Board's opinion
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September 21, 2005
Page 2
on whether or not we should increase our leagues at Collindale since it would be a
guaranteed revenue source. However, if we do increase leagues there wouldn't be room
for 18-hole play on league days. Dale stated that when he has someone that he can't fit in
he refers them to Collindale. Jerry stated that Collindale is open now but he wonders if
we should close it down for the sake of revenue. Jay Kammerzell said that a lot of
teachers do play, however when school is back in session it's too dark by the time they
get off. Dale suggested in that case we could shot gun them.
Board Liaison Diggs Brown suggested a punch card for September and October only and
feels people who purchase them will work hard to use the card up. David Johnson
mentioned that he heard of a golf course, along with their clubhouse, that is doing a 9-
hole league on Monday nights with Fantasy Football afterwards. After the eight week
league is over they still meet for football to keep the customers coming. Jim Greer said
he'd talk to Scott Manning, owner of Manno's Grille at Collindale, about that. Lauren
mentioned that Dale isn't comfortable with offering coupons, but maybe if they can get
those people to come in with coupons then they will return. She said that in her business
the market is also over -saturated and they are trying to come up with ways to keep people
coming in. She has started offering discounts and her revenue has increased because the
customers were coming in for the discounts, but they were buying other items in addition.
In her opinion discounting may mean taking a step backwards but ultimately in the end it
might generate more revenue. She then expressed her concern of not being able to place
an order at Collindale at the turn due to the lack of the service. She reminded the Board
that there was once some discussion of putting a phone in on the 9th hole and maybe that
would be helpful. She feels that if we encourage people and make the whole process
easier that might increase revenues because the product is there, it's just getting it to the
consumer. In Dale's opinion the players are already getting a good product for the money
and in his experience the ones using the coupons are the ones who already play. Lauren
said that there's always a way to tweak what ydu're doing to make the entire day more
enjoyable to the consumer so that they want to spend their whole day in Fort Collins.
Dale stated that when everything else is in line, such as the fees and the condition of the
course, it's ultimately the Golf Professionals job to bring in as many people and to
provide the best service because they are the direct contact between the City and the
players. He feels there are ways that we can improve, however he doesn't feel that
coupons are the way to go.
Lauren was wondering why golfers are choosing to play other courses especially with the
price of gas being so high. Jerry explained that up until three months ago things were
heading in that direction then in July and August the numbers rose and it appears that
September's numbers may be higher. It could possibly be because of the increases in gas
prices. CLRS Director Marty Heffernan said that the people he plays with would rather
drive further for the convenience. They are more concerned with being able to get on the
course than worrying about driving. Jerry asked Mountain Vista Greens owner Deryle
O'Dell how his business was doing? Deryle stated that with the loan they took out they
had to do a three year projection and so far there has only been one month when they
were unable to meet projections. Jerry asked how his Annual Passes sales have been and
Deryle said that he offers a Senior Annual Pass and it's doing great. Grant mentioned an
advertisement he saw for Deryle's course. Deryle said it was $9.00 for 9-holes and a
bucket of balls which is normally $19.00. He agrees that people think golf is over after
Labor Day so he's doing what he can to get players in. Jerry said that in the Denver
Metro areas there's a lot more competition and they really have to set themselves apart so
they do offer a lot of coupons. He stated that in Fort Collins we're a little more isolated
than they are. He feels that the golf industry has over -built and they are continuing to do
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September 21, 2005
Page 3
so and now we are competing with other courses in the area for golfers, but we're not in
the exact situation Denver is in.
Lauren mentioned that she heard female golfers are on the rise. Jerry said that since 2001
female golfers are the only group that has increased. Jerry stated that if we are going to
push leagues at Collindale then we are going to potentially eliminate 18-hole rounds.
Shane Houska asked what percent of rounds played are 18-holes versus 9-holes? Jerry
said 65% are.9-hole rounds and that most 18-hole rounds are played on the weekends.
Jerry brought up the situation that Lauren discussed with the lack of employees at
Manno's. Jim Greer asked Dale if they have any similar issues and Dale said that
SouthRidge Concessionaire Rob Dahl has sandwiches pre -made. Jim said that he feels
that the product is there, but the help isn't and he also mentioned that in Estes Park you
can't order at the turn. David Johnson said that many people carry cell phones and they
could use them to call in an order if we post the number. He also said that he would like
to discuss the things we could do quickly, like expand City Park Nine Passes. Jerry said
that David McCleave was thinking about expanding the passes at City Park Nine because
it could work well at that course, and Jerry feels we especially need to increase our
revenue at that particular course. Jim Greer stated that at the marketing meeting David
McCleave said he can't believe how slow the course is on the weekends. Dale said that
he believes SouthRidge is doing a lot more 9-hole rounds than they used to on the
weekends. Jerry stated that he feels people are playing a lot more 9-hole rounds because
of their time.
Dale said they've lost a lot of tournaments when the corporations stopped sponsoring
groups. Jerry feels that's why leagues are important to us. Dale informed the Board that
when he sends out tournament packets for next year he is going to include ideas to help
the tournament coordinators increase participation because a lot of them haven't run
tournaments before. Jay Kammer. said he feels having a brochure out to CSU and the
Convention and Visitor's Bureau would be beneficial. Grant feels our participation at the
Golf Expo would be a good idea. He believes that seniors go to the Expo to get
information to plan their summer golf trips. Jim Greer said that he goes down every year
and would be willing to partnership with Jerry to put something together. Marty feels that
there's curiosity from the Denver Metro area that Fort Collins is an interesting place so
we just have to figure out how to get them here, however we need to grow our base in the
Fort Collins community first and then extend. Jerry was also thinking of implementing a
stay and play coupon with the hotels.
Grant brought up the Greeley consultant plan and Jerry said that they recommended a
$4.00 decrease and that Greeley should focus on local golfers and not the outside golfers.
Jerry asked City Park Nine Assistant Golf Professional Menan Bergman to explain the
Greeley courses because he was previously employed there. Menan said they have two
different golf courses that they could market differently, like we've discussed doing here.
He explained that we could market SouthRidge as a course for leagues, Collindale as a
Championship Course, and at City Park Nine we can market CSU and pass play. Jerry
said there are some things that we'll have to go through the process on, but we can start
implementing others. Diggs mentioned that Council is heading in the direction of making
Fort Collins as a more tourist location so we should keep that in mind when we're
thinking of marketing ideas. He suggested that if we put together a brochure for the Golf
Expo to consider marketing the whole city. David Thilmany stated that he feels when the
Centerra Shopping Center comes in it's going to take away from the City's revenue.
Marty stated that there is some discussion of the Foothills Mall making renovations to
compete with Centerra. Diggs feels that the down town area is unique enough that it will
survive the shopping center.
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September 21, 2005
Page 4
Other Business
• Jay asked if Jerry had heard back yet in regards to implementing a joint website.
Jerry said that he had spoken with the IT Department and they are currently
working on Budget issues and they will respond as soon as possible.
Board Member and Staff Comments/Reports
Grant mentioned that the Greeley report said that the club house is inappropriate for the
market at Highland Hills, and David Thilmany said he has heard similar comments about
Manno's. He said that golfers just want to grab something fast and Manno's is to formal
and not all that inviting as a clubhouse. Grant also mentioned that the report stated when
giving new players discounts you're alienating your regular customers. Jerry said that we
had a few complaints about not giving the golfers who play regularly a discount when we
implemented the CSU discounts and Jerry said he reminded them that we do offer Annual
Passes and Punch Play Cards. We have discounts for them they're just in a different
form.
Adjournment:
On a motion by Shane Houska, seconded by Jay Kammerzell, the Board unanimously
voted (7:0) to adjourn at 8:50 p.m.
Meeting Attendance
Board Members
Lauren DeRosa
Shane Houska
David Johnson
Jay Kammerzell
Dan Preble
Grant Sherwood
David Thihmany
Respectfully submitted,
Dawn Worth
Administrative Aide
Staff
Jerry P. Brown
Dawn Worth
Jim Greer
Marty Heffernan
Dale Smigelsky
Guests
Menan Bergman
Diggs Brown
Pat Finnegan
Deryle O'Dell