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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 06/02/1999MINUTES CITY OF FORT COLLINS NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD REGULAR MEETING 281 N. COLLEGE June 2,1999 For Reference: Phil Murphy, NRAB Chair - 491-6303 Bill Bertschy, Council Liaison - 484-0181 Susie Gordon, Staff Liaison - 221-6265 Board Members Present Phil Friedman, Randy Fischer, Kelly Ohlson, Phil Murphy, Rick Harness, Reagan Waskom, Nate Donovan, Bill Miller Board Members Absent Don Rodriguez Staff Present Natural Resources Dent: Terry Mahn, Susie Gordon, Lucinda Smith, Aaron Fodge, Tom Shoemaker Utilities: Ben Alexander Park PlanninW Craig Forman Guests Sally Craig, Planning and Zoning Board Tom Shoemaker introduced Mark Sears, who has accepted the position of Natural Areas Program Manager in the Natural Resources Department. Shoemaker stated that Sears will be involved in acquisitions as well as the day to day management of the Natural Areas Program. Sears has been with the City of Fort Collins as an engineer for nineteen years. He is a super problem -solver and possesses exceptional public involvement skills. Sears stated he is looking forward to working closely with the board and getting to know everyone. He added that he has had a lifelong interest in this field and feels this position matches his personal values and passions. Agenda Review • Bill Miller: Add discussion of joint meeting between NRAB and Larimer County Environmental Advisory Board. • Bill Miller: Add discussion of impacts of domestic pets on wildlife (Announcements) Natural Resources Advise, Board June 2, 1999 Page 2 Committee reports Natural Areas: Tom Shoemaker said the May 26 meeting was informal. The recent NRAB field trip was discussed and specific questions regarding acquisitions were answered. The hiring process for the program manager was also reviewed. Trails: Discussion at the May 26 meeting was focused on options for connecting the Ridge subdivision to the Fossil Creek Trail through Cathy Fromme Prairie. The best alternative from a resource and cost standpoint is a direct connection. The difficulty is that it would be necessary to cross private property, which may not be possible. Discussion: • Donovan: Are we past the point of no connection? No, that's still an option. • Miller: The best option is the logical connection, shortest and least expensive. • Friedman: Why is the Ridge in favor of the particular connection they want? It stems from the fact that after considerable discussion with staff they do want a trail connection. Also, they recognize the difficulties of obtaining easements from the property owners on whose land it would cross. Those property owners were the ones most opposed to a trail connection. There is already public access at the other connection, negotiations would be easier. • Fischer: Maybe the proper public involvement expertise would make that happen. The direct connection is the only one that makes any sense; it's cost effective and more centrally located in the sub -division. • Miller: I am a former co-worker of Jonathon Hodges, would be happy to assist if it might help in the negotiations. There's also a third landowner who maybe willing to help. The committee will schedule another meeting in the near future to discuss action log items. Bill Miller requested that Phil Friedman be invited when the committee discusses the issue of wildlife sanctuary designation. Follow up on communiques to Council No report. Review Minutes The minutes were unanimously approved as written. Effects of Development on Drinking Water Supplies, Ben Alexander Ben Alexander said he feels the City needs to do a lot to protect our water supplies. The first evidence that it's necessary to protect the water supply was discovered in 1989, when the City found that water quality in Horsetooth Reservoir was deteriorating. Monitoring at Horsetooth suggested the problem was coming from upstream of the reservoir inlet. It could be from the vicinity of the Big Thompson River, Lake Estes, or from as far upstream as the headwaters of the Colorado River. It was necessary to put together a program to get everyone to focus on the problem. It would be inappropriate Natural Resources Allisory Board • June 2, 1999 Page 3 and too big of a job for the City to deal with by itself. Other cities, counties and federal agencies have land use management practices that must be modified if we are to protect our water supplies. The video that will be shown was designed to build grass roots support for a new program to bring together the stakeholders, including the Big Thompson Watershed Forum. Discussion • Randy Fischer: This brings joy to my heart, it's really a "watershed issue". It incorporates everything we as a board are trying to accomplish to make the quality of life better in this community. Wish people were more aware, certainly something we as community should be aware of. Don't know of too many communities that allow motor boats on their water supply, it's very unique. The water quality can be improved if we get our act together. It's hard to document and hard to see, but it's not hard to win people's favor. A community nearby, Broomfre14 had to replace their water supply because of plutonium contamination of their reservoir. • Miller: This looks like an opportunity for ajoint meeting between this board and the Latimer County EAB. They've had this same subject on their "action log" for well over four years. At'/. of a million dollars a year to do the monitoring it behooves us to take the message to a broader audience. • Ohlson: I think citizen awareness of this issue is zero, water quality is taken for granted. What is the purpose of the video? It doesn't show what we can do to help with this. We may have missed the boat as far assaying what should be done. Ohlson: Are we looking at better monitoring that will lead to action? This organization is great at studies and reports, but we fall down when it gets to the action. We need some action. We must have data first When we went to neighboring communities and said we were concerned with the quality of water, their first reaction was that it was unique to Fort Collins, that the water is treated to such a high level that we bring the problem on ourselves. When Utilities Director Mike Smith and I discussed the fact that we were encountering water qualityproblems that originated upstream of Horsetooth and needed data from further up in the watershed, Mike said we would have to garner the support of other affected communities. I have been working for 4-5 years to gain support and to that end have helped organize and develop the Big Thompson Watershed Forum. Ohlson: Is there anything you would like to see us do, other than be as supportive politically and verbally as we can? We can't do it alone, even if we have the resources. We have to cross land use boundaries. The only way we can get control is in the political world we have to nurture relationships with the stakeholders. It's working, the City support is great, now we need the rest of northeast Colorado to be involved A meeting with the Larimer County FAB would be good A lot of the area where we can measure changes is under County control. Several members of the watershed forum are concerned about sanitary waste from Estes Park and increases in the number of septic systems in Larimer County. Need to raise awareness of general things, such as the septic system regulations may not be adequate. Natural Resources Advise,., Board June 2, 1999 Page 4 P Ohlson: Why doesn't the City send representatives to show up at meetings, for instance at County land use discussions, to voice concerns? I don't know. I haven't been authorized to represent the City. 1 have personally submitted written comments. P Harness: What is the monitoring showing? We're trying to get more fundingfor monitoring. Most phosphate is below the detection level. You can't see the trends when operating below the detection level. We're trying to get the detection limit down, so those trends can be monitored We have Dr. Goldman, known as the man who saved Lake .Tahoe, on an on going contract. We gather data and send it to him, and they report back to us. There will be a report to compare Horsetooth and Carter Lake. Dr. Goldman says it's not enough to say Horsetooth is phosphate limited, we have a lot of data to gather. We need to get other people to participate, and to look at the reports. We can't impose something on Estes Park or Lorimer County, but we're hoping to get them involved in collecting the data. • Ohlson: This is a no-brainer for the elected officials, you'll have the support of Council. I look forward to the opportunity to go to as marry policy boards as possible. It's easy to "make the case" and get support. But, there are also agencies that are afraid, people are concerned about additional regulations. Would prefer to do voluntary control and go as far as we can. People start digging in their heels and resisting additional regulations and tighter standards. It's also apolitical turf issue. Grand County has been one of the most helpful and far-sighted stakeholders so far. • Shoemaker: Latimer County has just released the final draft of the Land Use Code. It struck me that we need to get you, and Utilities, to submit comments. There's a pretty well established pipeline for providing the City's comments. There are also three different open lands conservation partnerships that I'm involved in, it might be that we could offer some in -roads, and our efforts would be strengthened if we added water quality to our list of mutual concerns. • Alexander: There has been a lot of focus on the Big Thompson, but there are also activities on the Poudre River. We do a lot of monitoring on the Poudre, but haven't noticed any water quality degradation yet. As a result of 1996 Amendments to Safe Drinking Water Act we're working with George Webber, from Colorado University. He's got a grant from the EPA to do a national pilot study, will do delineation and assessment. Concerns regarding the Poudre would include a catastrophic burn, timber management strategies, traffic issues including highway spills and vehicles in the river. Because of increased recreation, more and more sanitary waste is being hauled. • Miller: What is the actual source of manganese in Fort Collins' drinking water? The basic cause of the manganese is excessive algae growth. There's an important need to understand the whole system and manage for a common sense of objectives. • Miller: At last night's meeting of the Larimer County EAB it was recommended that we have a joint meeting between the NRAB and Larimer County EAB. Two people were identified as liaisons, Scott Ellis and John Barthelow. Maybe it would be good to have presentations from people such as Ben. • Murphy: We need to talk about how we want to deal with this. • Ohlson: Would it be helpful to have a memo from this board to Council, encouraging them to continue their efforts? Yes, we need to convince all of the policy makers. Natural Resources Aftsory Board • June 2, 1999 Page 5 Cities for Climate Protection, Lucinda Smith Lucinda Smith presented a brief overview of the Draft Fort Collins Local Action Plan to Reduce Greenhouse Gases that had previously been distributed to the board. She requested a recommendation or comments regarding the plan. Some of the issues she would appreciate feedback on include: • Does the Board support some or all of the actions outlined in this plan, • Are there any measures you wish to highlight as very important, • Are there any measures you feel are inappropriate for Council to consider, and • What type of greenhouse gas reduction target do you feel City Council should adopt? Discussion • Harness: On page 11, figure 2 it says that electricity is responsible for approximately 42% of green house gases. It really has nothing to do with electricity, but how the electricity is generated. • Harness: I'm talking about Rawhide being the largest contributor of CO2? Have they looked at making that a more efficient process? There's an intention that new capacity at Rawhide would be fueled by natural gas. • Ohlson: They announced that this week. • Ohlson: Why is 1990 data being used? We're following the protocol prescribed by the CCP campaign, to provide a common base for comparison. • Friedman: The chart on the backside of the I' page of the executive summary needs to be changed to something that can be more easily understood. • Friedman: Why was the vegetation, tree planting program eliminated? I would like to see some mention of its potential. Global warming is a global problem, if we do a greenhouse gas reduction project anywhere in the world we're helping to solve the problem. • Friedman: Why is the idea of the City buying electricity from a wind generator for its own internal consumption controversial? • Ohlsom Why is that the only measure that shows pros and cons? Either provide pros and cons for all measures, or else don't include them. It's the only one we identified with a policy mandate conflict. • Fisher: Is the landfill being monitored for methane? I've worked on a lot of landfills in Colorado, and there are some landfills where there is no methane at all. Methane estimates are based on the volume and waste characterization. It's as accurate as it can be without actual sampling. • Ohlsom Which individuals or groups were on the citizen committee? There was participation from a variety of people; four City board members, Chamber of Commerce Legislative Affairs Committee, Sierra Club, and several others providing technical expertise. Up until the last meeting we still tried to get larger businesses involved. There was only one group that represented my values. It seemed weighted to protect the status quo. • It's one thing to adopt a target and it's another to have the resources to provide it. There are concerns about the City adopting a plan with a visionary goal that doesn't Natural Resources Adviso., Board June 2, 1999 Page 6 have resources. We're at a disadvantage because of our 2010 forecast. Other cities had forecasts they fudged on. We tried to use reasonable numbers. • Ohlson: If I was a council member I would like a "menu". I agree that it is better to start with honest numbers and then have something that's really do -able. • Harness: Page 17, one of the ways to reduce VMT is to increase parking charges. You'll be encouraging people to circle around and look for a parking space. • Ohlson: It's to encourage people to not take their cars. The parking problem downtown is caused by the employees of establishments. We need to get people to find alternative ways to get there. • Murphy: I agree that it promotes people driving around and looking for a place to park. • Ohlson: People have to start seeing the cost of driving downtown. We subsidize the single occupant vehicle. • Fischer: That logic works in downtown Denver. You can pay up to $12.00 a day to park. Many companies subsidize that, but if people had to pay out of their own pocket they would ride the bus instead. • Friedman: An unintended consequence of increasing parking fees could be to drive people to the malls. There's got to be a level playing field when we're addressing parking. • Ohlson: People will still have free parking, and there will still be some share of 25 and 50 cent spaces. • Murphy: I support all of the things on here. It'd be great if they happened, but I'm not sure they will. It would be nice to have another table that says these are the things Fort Collins can really do, and another chart with the costs. We're still putting together the costs, they were requested for the Council study session. • Friedman: The document is really good in terms of laying out the problem. • Ohlson: It needs to be made clear to Council that this is a realistic approach with honest numbers. It'd be nice if the warm fuzzy stuff was up front, before they get into the numbers. • Shoemaker: There have been a lot ofgood comments. We're being asked, if we can't get all the way and it's clear we can't, is it worth doing this? This will cause pain in terms of large amounts of investment. • Ohlson: What will cost the "big" bucks? FTE's and wind turbines. • Murphy. Without the numbers it's hard to respond to that. My impression is the board is in favor. Would need dollar numbers to make rational choice. There can be big payoffs for little investment and sometimes there is little payoff for large investments. • Ohlson: I think we should move forward. We might as well be in there pushing to get the air we breathe in better shape, we might as well be in there slugging it out with 20 more cops a year and Art In Public Places. • Friedman: If we all take the position that global warming is a reality it would be disingenuous of us to say, "Well, we can't do what we set out to do, so we won't do anything". We must do our part to the best of our ability. We're trying to be honest about what we can achieve. Natural Resources Atsory Board • June 2, 1999 Page 7 • Donovan: We shouldn't give up on tighter fuel efficiency standards. The board agreed to send a memo to Council in support of the Cities for Climate Protection Plan. Updates on Parks Projects, Craig Foreman In 1984 or 1985 the irrigation diversion dam at the old power plant on N. College Ave. needed to be repaired. They put in the first stages of a boat chute and a fish ladder. The plan was to add two more structures downstream. In 1991, when Thornton made its water "grab", the City went to Court and asked for recreation rights. Part of the settlement was that we would finish construction of the boat chutes. The judge said if you do that, you would be showing intent. To keep the water rights we have to complete this improvement by December 31, 2000. (Foreman showed photographs from a similar project that was done on the Platte River in Denver.) Discussion • Shoemaker: How do boats get through the rocks? If there's enough water they can make it, if not, they would have to portage. • Donovan: How long would boats be able to get through? Spring should be OK, summer will be more trouble. We're not saying you'll be able to run the Poudre every day. • Ohlson: It looks like water world, it doesn't look natural. Let's try to make it look more natural than that. • Murphy: Thinking about the safety issue. The City could be sued. The reality is stream flows are high and dangerous. There will have to be signs warning that it's unsafe when there's high water. • Miller: In reality, they prefer the high water. • Friedman: Denver P&R created a recreational boat chute and artificial rapids, how do they deal with liability? We'll check on that. • Friedman: What is the feeling that Thornton is likely to sue based on? Historically they have. So, if the City shows intent we'll probably be OK? Yes. • Miller: Didn't the state say there is value to recreational water? Yes, in a precedent setting case. • Fischer: What's the funding? Colorado Trust Fund • Ohlson: Thought there was a standing policy that those funds were earmarked for trails. We put in for a supplemental request from the general fund but don't know if we'll get it. _ • Ohlson: Would like to know if that is still the adopted policy of Council. If it limits expenses to trails and open spaces, they'll have to justify it somehow. • Fischer: It seems odd that we would spend Conservation Trust Fund monies. Going on, Foreman discussed the list of summer projects that is posted on the internet. • Ohlson: Could NRD print it out yearly or seasonally and distribute? Yes. • Ohlson: Are we still in the habit of naming parks after the people who we buy land from? No. Natural Resources Advisc,., Board June 2, 1999 Page 8 • Muruhv: Have there been any opportunities to move trails? Yes, near Wood Street there was a limited opportunity but the owner does not appear to be willing. Also a stretch of trail near a trailer court off Wood Street -we're going to ask permission, doubt if we'll get much more from him. • Ohlson: Are you going to give it a shot? Yes. • Ohlson: Is the philosophy that when opportunities arise you're going to look at them? Yes, it's the right thing to do. I want to leave a legacy that we put together the best trail system possible. • Harness: Is the trail that was washed out near the ELC going to be adjusted in any way? That's an interesting one. We're talking about where it needs to be, we'll go through a process to determine what everyone wants to do. • Ohlson: So, the bottom line is, there may be opportunities. Maybe. • Ohlson: What Parks projects have relevance to the concerns of this board? Gateway Mountain Park, Cottonwood Glen neighborhood park, Fossil Creek community park. We'll start design on that this summer. It's the first community park since 1984. We're trying to figure out timing. May get a consultant started in June/July. It will take six months or more to design. Will bring the boards in then, and again at the end. It will go through a complete public process. • Ohlson: Have heard there might be a dog park. Would that be in the programmed or non -programmed part of the park? In my mind a dog park is not a programmed activity. I appreciate your honesty, but I disagree. • Ohlson: Most people would consider tennis and basketball as programmed. Is your thinking that they are not programmed? Yes. • Ohlson: Suggest that in the future we need to rethink the phraseology, this is the first I've ever thought of tennis or basketball as non -programmed activities. • Fisher: What about the $600,000 grant for the softball ground? This involves Building Community Choices money. We've been discussing it for two months. Putting one field at Preston, one at Rocky Mountain High School and one at Poudre High School. The old rodeo grounds at CSU must be cleaned up. It makes sense that two fields could go up there, might see if can, fit four. Yhey'll be lighted. • Ohlson: It's absurd to put lighted fields up against the foothills. • Ohlson: Why is all of the money the City is giving to schools going to ball fields? There's a liaison committee made up of two council members and two school board people. • Ohlson: I would like to ask each NRAB member if they like lighted ball fields. For the record, I note that everyone responded "no". • Fischer: It's a gift to the school that will benefit Parks and Rec. • Miller: The Dixon area around the dam is a vital riparian habitat used for migrating species. • Fischer: Southwest Community Park is designed to ultimately have four lighted ball fields up against Pineridge Natural Area. Welcome to Fort Collins of the year 2000. I think lighted ball fields is a pivotal issue for this board. It's not going to be pretty, I don't think anyone can expect this board to go along with that. Natural Resources Advisory Board • June 2, 1999 Page 9 • Craie: Your council liaison is also the P&R liaison. Maybe it would be appropriate to ask him to one of your meetings to discuss this. • Friedman: The people from the school board were very frustrated. There's been no demonstrated need for lighted ball fields by school kids. The amount of lighted fields needed by the school district is really very small. • Miller. Maybe you should look at lighting the other three fields and leave the one in the foothills unlighted. • Murphy: It's a good point to remember, that this is not a "done deal" by any stretch — just a recommendation. There is time for us to take a pro -active approach and get our comments out. • Ohlson: I hope we do a motion tonight for a memo to Council. Phil Friedman made the following motion: The Natural Resources Advisory Board would like to advise Council of its strong objection to the utilization of Building Community Choices monies, to construct lighted ball fields adjacent to natural areas, or near the foothills, and to suggest that the Council revisit the suitable use of this money that does not a)spend all the money in one area and on one project and b) does not build lighted ball fields in inappropriate areas. The motion passed unanimously. Review Solid Waste Reduction Projects (Interim Plan) Memo, Susie Gordon The board reviewed the draft version of the memo and made suggestions for changes and additions. Review Future Agenda Items June 16, 1999 Review Action Log See update in packet. Announcements Natural Areas Acquisitions Trails Update Ranger Program Update • Ohlson: What is the staff involvement in sewer line placement? • Ohlson: What is the status of the City selling the parcel of land with the prairie dogs? Bill Bertchy mentioned he was using this as an example of City policy on residential land. • Ohlson: Need help gathering signatures for the Open Lands sales tax extension initiative. • Ohlson: In the Parks & Recreation Board minutes there was a statement that if the Horticulture Center won't be located at Lee Martinez Park, we need to have something that will enhance the Lee Martinez/North College area. Natural Resources Advise., Board June 2, 1999 Page 10 • Miller: Memo from Cheryl Olson to Doug Ryan concerning the effect of domestic animals on wildlife with the suggestion that it sounded like a job for the Larimer County EAB. There was a recommendation for the animal task force to have a representative attend an EAB meeting. Phil Friedman added the number two item identified as a threat to the Prebles meadow jumping mouse was domestic animal predation. - • Fischer: The trail in the Maxwell Natural Area, in less than a year, has spots where it is so badly braided that it is twenty feet wide in some places. Also, a lot of unauthorized trails are being created by mountain bikes. I am about ready to suggest outlawing mountain bikes in natural areas. They do not stay on the trail, they're a major disaster. • Ohlson: What is the management plan for Coyote Ridge? • Fischer: The picture in the paper of the guy stranded on the jeep made my day. The problem was he didn't get a ticket. Adjournment The meeting was adjourned at 10:25.