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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 06/16/1999MINUTES CITY OF FORT COLLINS NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD SPCECIAL MEETING 281 N. COLLEGE June 16,1999 For Reference: Phil Murphy, NRAB Chair - 491-6303 Bill Bertschy, Council Liaison - 484-0181 Susie Gordon, Staff Liaison - 221-6265 Board Members Present Randy Fischer, Kelly Ohlson, Don Rodriguez Phil Murphy, Reagan Waskom, Nate Donovan, Bill Miller Board Members Absent Phil Friedman, Rick Harness Staff Present Natural Resources Dent: Terry Klahn, Susie Gordon, Jim Miller, Edith Felchle, Dave Josefson, Karen Manci, Tom Shoemaker Guests Sally Craig, Planning and Zoning Board Agenda Review Add Flood Plain Task Force Update, Randy Fischer Discussion of several small items, Kelly Ohlson Joint meeting of NRAB and Larimer County Environmental Advisory Board, Bill Miller Follow up on communiques to Council Ohlson: Horticulture Center Memo: Ensure that the memo makes it clear to Council we are willing to do our part, but we don't want to do more than our part. The memo could be interpreted to say that if four additional acres are needed we'll buy it. Ohlson: Cities for Climate Protection Memo: In the future we need to be more specific about things we want to influence, such as increased mileage for minivans and pick-ups, as well as emission standards. Need to make clear to Council we're not taking the "tough stand", we're taking a low-key approach. The memo seemed hard to understand and tepid. Murohv: Would love to have the opportunity to bring memos back so the entire board can have input, but sometimes timing is an issue. Maybe in the future, a couple people should review the memos. Natural Resources Advise_, Board June 16, 1999 Page 2 Fischer: The media coverage of CCP was pretty weak, and the 75 million dollar cost was very misleading. A lot of those items are for other issues, like VMT reductions. There's also a payback for some of those costs that was not mentioned in the paper. Ohlson: Agree with Fischer, it's difficult to determine how the City can clarify the misinformation. Gordon: The advisory committee was very concerned and thought it was misleading. There has been some discussion to submit a soapbox or a letter to the editor. Shoemaker: Typically, John's response is not to correct things like that. We will make sure in the next communication to Council it is made clear, although I thought it was clear this first time. We'll encourage the citizens committee to respond. Ohlson: Requested a copy of Lucinda's memo to Council. The mayor made a comment that he's not convinced global warming is real. Shoemaker: There's a short story in Time Magazine that says as the scientific community is more and more convinced about global warming, the public is less and less interested. Update on Ranger Program, Edith Felchle Edith Felchle stated that the new council members' introductions to the natural areas videos have been completed. They (council members) were excited and did a great job. Felchle stated she is very pleased at the public acceptance of the ranger program, and that it has exceeded her expectations. There are individuals out there who are not real pleased to abide by the law, but by and large the program is going very well. The rangers are very professional in situations where it's not easy to remain professional and they are very respectful toward the public they deal with. Discussion • Ohlson: Thank you for the summary included in the packet, it was what I was wanting. What was the weapons issue? Adolescent with a pellet gun. What was the false impersonation? A lady gave a correct phone number and an incorrect name. They were able to figure out who she was and track her down. She was very abusive to the ranger and a citation was issued. • Ohlson: Very supportive of the entire ranger program. Really like the soft approach and the coupons. Hope we continue the encouragement and positive reinforcement. Also agree with a "comfortable" ranger presence. My conclusion is that now it's time to step up the issuance of citations. I'm not saying to really crank it up for the next four months or so, but to start increasing them. It would be a gradual increase, we'll select different sites at different times. We have issued a press release. • Fischer: Why just one area at a time, and why just for one day? It's a random management tool. The theory is you get better compliance if the enforcement is random. That's an interesting psychology, it seems if you had no tolerance at all, and issued citations to everyone whose dog came by off -leash, that would solve the problem. Ifwe go really wide we'll see more resistance. We're always balancing the public acceptance of the program. • Fischer: How do you judge public acceptance? I would think the FIDOS folks are representative of dog owners, and their philosophy is to be proud that they can spot Natural Resources Afsory Board • June 16, 1999 Page 3 the rangers at a distance and put on a leash at the appropriate time. It has become a "cat and mouse" game. Plus, the talk was in terms of "nazi control freaks", it didn't seem like good public acceptance to me. We base public acceptance on a couple of things: 1) the fact that FIDOS hasn't stepped forward suggests that they must recognize it as their own opinion but maybe not the public's opinion and 2) the positive feedback we've had, people actually thanking the rangers for the work they're doing. • Waskom: Thanks for a really good memo, really appreciate the "good citizen coupons". What do you think the rate of non-compliance is? Probably not as good as one jogger's opinion of 50% fewer dogs off -leash, but actually, there are a lot of dogs on -leash, the coupons are mostly for dogs on -leash. • Waskom: How do you decide to issue a warning instead of a summons? There are a couple sites where a summons is always issued. Also, the person's attitude, and repeat contacts. The rangers are pretty good about recognizing previous contacts, they talk to each other and keep logs. • Waskom: Will there be a day when there is zero tolerance? I would hope we always have the ability to give a warning. There are times when the rangers recognize that a summons would not be appropriate. • Wasksom: Will two rangers give you all the presence you want? Will you need additional staff? A decision will have to be made about that. The next level might be seasonal employees, but that would be difficult because of the training required. In the next couple of years we may need some level of increase. • Rodriguez: Commend you on the "no -tolerance" issue, it should be really effective. I would suggest getting hard numbers regarding compliance in terms of observations and would offer some students to do it. They could get out and see what the percent of compliance is. It's a way to justify increased staffing if needed. I was involved with an undergraduate student who did a research project looking at the leave -no - trace applications in Boulder open space, and would suggest we start to look at an educational campaign. It was a regional pilot — now it's going national. • Donovan: The summary is great. We want the judges on our side, it needs to be clear the perceived technicality was a flaw in the regulation. There have been some neat contacts, the rangers have had various reasons to ask the attorneys questions, and had a chance encounter with a judge that resulted in a good dialogue. • Miller: How many incidents have there been where rangers had to call for police back-up? There have only been a handful of times when back-up was needed because someone was giving a ranger a hard time. The police have been wonderful. More typically, it's the vagrant problem. They are considered, and often are, dangerous. The police have told the rangers never to contact them without an officer. Are the rangers armed? No. • Ohlson: I'm not clear where we're moving. What is the "ultimate end"? If you're talking about compliance; 100% is the goal, but everyone knows we'll never reach that. There are various strategies to work toward that goal If you're asking about percent of tickets versus warnings, that starts to look like quotas. I wouldn't want you to have a number, just trying to get a feel. The rangers need to know, we have to give them some sort of framework; they do look to the people supervising them for Natural Resources Advise., Board June 16, 1999 Page 4 direction. The rangers get frustrated too, they want to be very careful and try to keep a pulse on the community. People will more and more often get tickets and repeat tickets cost twice as much. • Ohlson: There's a big gap between the community and people who use the natural areas. You have a lot of room to crank it up. You've got a lot of maneuvering room and support. Glad to hear that. We don't have hard numbers, but we do feel that a gradual increase is the way to go, instead of a sudden jump to high enforcement. • Ohlson: I'd like.a copy of the press release, we need to be in the loop. • Rodriguez: With regard to zero tolerance, it would be nice to inform the public this policy exists. • Miller: Agree, that diffuses some of the negative aspects. • Fischer: The fact that we don't have actual numbers on compliance needs to be remedied. It's too bad we don't have numbers. The rangers do observations; dogs - off -leash and dogs -on -leash. We're putting together a data base. • Fischer: I fully intend to go to Pineridge to take notes and document these things. If Don is offering these students' assistance we should take him up on it. I've noticed there seems to be a wide variation in compliance at different natural areas. Pineridge is probably the least, while Cathy Fromme Prairie is almost 100% compliant. We didn't open CFP until there was a management plan, that's a big difference. • Fischer: What about having the master naturalists volunteer one day every three or four months to sit at main entrances of various natural areas to disseminate information? • Rodriguez: That's Boulder's approach. • Fischer: When I'm in a natural area it's all I can do to contain myself and not confront people who are out of compliance. Have had unpleasant encounters. I'm glad you've backed offfrom encounters, that can be very dangerous. We've had people threatened Update on Natural Areas Trails Maintenance Issues, Jim Miller Jim Miller told the board that Pineridge Natural Area is designated as a sensitive natural area, which requires users to stay on the trails. With input from the public, stiff, and advisory boards there have been official trails designated, and other trails will be closed. It will be posted that you must stay on the trail. We would like to have that posted at major trail heads and access points, and have copies of the regulations available. We would also like to give the public some notice that trails will be closed, as well as provide interpretative information that will discuss some of the problems. We've talked about pamphlets showing which trails are official trails and which ones are closed. Our feeling is that it would be better to have signage that says "area closed for restoration" rather than "trail closed". The trails that have been designated as official trails do need to be upgraded in spots. Discussion • Rodriguez: How are you going to close the trails, are you going to phase it in? We're considering going in strong and closing them all. My experience is that if you close Natural Resources Afsory Board • June 16, 1999 Page 5 them and begin restoration within a week or two people can appreciate it. If they are closed and no restoration work is begun it may viewed as an arbitrary closure. My suggestion is don't close the trail until you can do the restoration. People will respect that. Have you looked into why there are social trails? Convenience, people getting to where they need or want to be. • Fischer: Some trails pre -date the natural areas program, and are well established. There used to be a car dealer who sent people up there to test their 4-wheel drive vehicles! • Miller: Don has a good idea, perhaps some signage announcing this is going to happen, prior to the trail closures, will make the idea more attractive. We do want to spend some time preparing the users for the closures. • Rodriguez: Another suggestion would be to print up a small generic sign about social trails. Maybe they should be posted at each social trail head. • Miller: Piggy -back on the forest service and have signs saying "restoration in progress due to resource damage". There are signs that say "restoration in progress" and have a graphic of a booted foot about to step on a flower. • Ohlson: The regulation brochure is kind of intimidating, it might be better to take ten or twelve key points and not try to post all of the rules. Edith Felchle is working on making the brochure more user friendly. • Ohlson: If there are clear signs, maybe it's time to adopt a zero tolerance policy. If a bicyclist is found off the trail maybe they need to get a ticket. If a hiker wanders off the trail for bird -watching that might be more of a gray area, and maybe a warning should be issued. I think we are doing that, but will check and make sure. • Fisher: I am impatient about getting this done. I go frequently to Pineridge and am very disturbed to see what people are doing. There are more trails than are actually shown on the map. I could show you numerous examples of new social trails in the formative stages. There are some fairly prominent trails starting to form at the foot of the hogback. I'm really impatient to see some action. • Ohlson: If we've waited this long already let's just stop the creation of new damage, and do what we can gradually for a few months. • Rodriguez: What you're proposing is very positive. Letting the public know what you're doing is a very positive message. • Ohlson: A lot of the spin is the implementation of the stewardship, protection and preservation of public investments for them and future generations. • Miller: As a board we may have to go to bat on this, there may be some public outcry. • Fischer: This may be a perfect opportunity to implement some kind of public education program. • Craig: Consider using the natural area videos. • Fischer: Another issue related to Pineridge is the Cottonwod Glen neighborhood park plan. It seems the construction of the park would be a good opportunity to start channeling people into the areas where we want them to go. We're working with Craig on that. • Ohlson: When you're working on it emphasize the compromises that have been made, there have been a lot of them. This plan is nothing like I wanted it to be. Natural Resources Adviso., Board June 16, 1999 Page 6 Fisher: Is blue flax a native plant? Yes, it's been a good year for it, you'll be seeing a lot of it. Natural Areas Acquisitions, Tom Shoemaker Tom Shoemaker said he is in the process of updating maps and preparing a written update to Council on recent acquisitions. Various colors on the map represent different types of land; natural areas and other open lands, state and federal land, and parcels under contract or in active. negotiations. Shoemaker also stated he would like to get reactions regarding specific areas visited on the field trip. Discussion • Ohlson: Very happy about changes for color -coding the maps. It's taken years to get this accomplished. The maps are important to show distinctions about different types of open lands. Can you get the rest of the organization to do this? Yes, they're trying to. Can we have maps? Yes, that's the plan. • Shoemaker: We've talked about the Rogers property. I was informed that LaFarge will execute their first right -of -refusal. They are willing to work with us on the whole piece of property. I consider this a setback, because of the work involved so far. Their decision has to do with pieces that are critical to their operations, and water augmentation liability. I understand why they're doing it. • Rodriguez: Do you think they'll work with you? Yes. • Shoemaker: Basically I decided today we should try to get the Oxbow site. My understanding is the landowner is not interested in selling to the natural areas program, but the signals point toward the community wanting it to be a natural area. • Ohlson: Of the areas we haven't gotten to, is it because of not enough staffing, money issues, or just too much on the plate? Even the Council direction is "don't miss anything because of money", and to go to them if you're going to miss out on something because of money issues. If you think about what was here five years ago, we have filled in the map alot. • Miller: If go back to 1990 a lot of these parcels hadn't even been identified. Most of the high priority stuff has been taken care of. Can you really get that much at Cooper Slough? We're going to try. Having Mark Sears on board will help. • Ohlson: My point is it's crunch time. We need to find resources or it will be too late. • Waskom: Do we have the Windsor property yet? Not yet, there is bad news -good news. The appraisal came in at what he paid for it. He paid 2 million and wanted 5 million. He may not sell. Through the process we learned of serious limitations on the property. There's no danger of development at this time. There's a 30 year mining lease and a lot of it is in the floodway. I'm convinced there won't be many other buyers. Lafarge is in no hurry to mine it. • Fischer: At the last flood plain task force meeting it was mentioned that due to the threat of possible restrictions on development along the river, people are motivated to do things they may not have done in the short term. Yes, I've heard that, the Oxbow is one of those places. • Waskom: Are people motivated to build or sell? Natural Resources Asory Board • June 16, 1999 Page 7 • Ohlson: It could be a combination of the two. • Fischer: At the new parking lot on CFP, there is still a for -sale sign on the north edge of the property next to the "light house". Is that property gone, or is it part of the natural area? I'll have to look and see where it's located. We chose not to buy that property. It has development fully approved. The area behind Horsetooth, is that private ownership? Yes, most of it has houses on it. • Ohlson: There are some pretty areas back there. It's awful, some of the stuff that's going on back there. We need to get someone on that. I'm meeting with the folks from CSU in the next week or two to start discussions. • Shoemaker: Apparently there's a significant donation to CSU in the offing for a Poudre River property. 77sat 's gotten CSU thinking there maybe other landowners dying to give them property. We have experienced at least one donation that was going to go to the University, but they wouldn't agree to keep it restricted • Ohlson: When Council adopts this corridor plan, are you guys going to jump in and get some of those lands? It's pennies now compared to what it will be in 8-10 years. Yes, that will be part of our plan, there are a number ofplaces where we don't have to wait for a policy direction. We need to be moving along the River. • Fischer: I'm curious about the community separators because of the Solid Waste Task Force (Latimer County) recommendations for the landfill. There are two points there. The geographic proximity is critical and the perception of some folks on the task force is it's an appropriate use of land as open space. After closure, landfills typically get restored to some sort of open land use. • Ohlson: I'm not crazy about that. There are a lot of trucks going in and out of landfills. Ae other issue is compatibility, don't want immediate neighbors. If it's on open land it's not as much of a problem. • Fischer: What are the priorities for community separators? How did the public view this type of land use? Staff has had numerous discussions, but I (Shoemaker) think that it is unlikely they would see that as an appropriate use. • Gordon: The purpose of the recommendation is to get it out on the table. It's a complex project to site anew landfill. Shoemaker: The first parcel I want to talk about is the 7-acre parcel John Proudy owns that is adjacent to Red Tail Grove. Initially I was feeling no, it's too pricey, and we still have the natural regulations in play, but there is potential trail access. Karen Manci and Janet Meisel Burns from Parks will go and look tomorrow. If it made sense for the trail connection and if Parks would pay 50% of the price, maybe it makes sense. Ohlson: The consensus was bigger chunks and less money. The trail connection doesn't really help. If we do this, we start to jack up the price on other land. The other thing is, Parks ought to pay more, they continue to spend more and more money. They just used Conservation Trust Fund monies for a truck. If it's for a trail connection they can buy it. Rodriguez: Is there an access problem? No. Natural Resources Advise , Board June 16, 1999 Page 8 • Olson: The board needs to realize, we want almost everything that comes to us, but we may be enabling a trail system that we may or may not want. We know there is an impact. We need to be careful we don't purchase stuff that later we need to come back and fight. We are still trying to provide places where people can watch wildlife that is somewhat adaptable. Those things will come at a higher price. • Rodriguez: It is a little island of habitat. • Waskom: I liked it, but thought it was too expensive. By cutting the price in half it looks a lot better. • Murphy: I respect what Kelly has said about this, but I think you should buy it. I know the economics, but have to look at it from hindsight also. • Miller: I would rather have a natural area with a bike path than a series of apartments. • Ohlson: Tom needs to play bad cop, get Parks to pay more than 50%. I love the spot too, used to say more pocket areas are needed. It's not the end of the world, we did go to sleep on the Harmony Road transit site, we didn't like it, but we didn't do enough. • Ohlson: I'd like to request a list of the last five years of the Conservation Trust Fund monies. What organization got it and how they spent it. • Fischer: I think it's too expensive. I don't like to spend more than $10,000 an acre. If it works as a trail connection have Parks look at obtaining easements and not spend our money. There's no reason we can't do a trail connection even if it's developed • Ohlson: My gut level says it's a lot of money, the price here is the problem, but if we buy it, we'll all look like geniuses ten years from now. Shoemaker took a straw poll of the board: three in favor, four opposed. • Craig: It's hard to see how the regulations will protect this site. I'm worried about the 80% buffer requirement. They would have to do it in a place that made sense. I'm not uncomfortable with that. How about storm drainage? I haven't looked at the development proposal. • Ohlson: I relate to the aesthetics of the pond, but I'm not saying I'm for it. I understand and agree it builds support for the tougher calls and the bigger things. Couldn't we accomplish that in a different way, by where we put the trail? • Craig: Have you seen a comprehensive plan on this property? • Ohlson: It has a nest and a water way, they're going to protect it. • Miller: If it's apartments, kids will be down there and trash the place. • Shoemaker: It's not an easy call. This landowner is motivated to find a way for it to be in public ownership. He wants to find a way to make it work. • Ohlson: I go back and forth by Red Fox Meadows about six times a day. I've never seen a dog on -leash. That's been my observation too. Shoemaker: The next parcel I would like feedback on is located on East Prospect, where the MBI Building is. It's not really significant from a wildlife point of view because it's Natural Resources Advisory Board • June 16, 1999 Page 9 developed, it's been mined and has a road next to it. The other perspective is its in the middle of the corridor. It's about $330.000 for six acres. • Craig: Will it appraise that high? What happened to the Moore property by the ELC? He's still interested in some type of exchange. CSU took the lead in working with the Moore family. • Shoemaker: I'm leaning toward purchasing this property. • Rodriguez: Is it a building we could use for maintenance facilities? Possibly, but we need a shop also. We would need to add to it to make it workable. We might be able to rent it to someone else. • Miller: Could it be used for master naturalist training, or interpretative areas? If we do what we hope to do to renovate the Nix property, that's where the master naturalist training will take place. • Fischer: Why do we need to help the owner out? He made a bad business decision and now he's paying for it. The City was looking at zoning it RC, it ended up being put in a transition zone. • Fischer: He had a reasonable expectation that property would be zoned industrial? • Murphy: What can be done? They can keep it as an office and expand by 25916. • Ohlson: $50,000 an acre is just nuts. • Rodriguez: Would you be setting a precedent? • Gordon: Can the building be moved? • Miller: It's not usually possible to move a building with a concrete roof. • Ohlson: The value of the building isn't $200,000. How do we know we can't get it for less? We might be able to. I don't like to do serious negotiating tf we're not really serious about the purchase. • Rodriguez: What's the appraised value? I know what he has in it. • Ohlson: If he's working with an appraiser you get a different value than one who's working for the City. It depends on the appraiser. We also have a land agent, he often challenges appraisals. What does the board think about this? • Waskom: No, but I wouldn't second guess Tom. • Fischer: I don't see it, we don't owe the guy anything, and $50,000 an acre is absurd. • Rodriguez: We need to do everything we can to make that contiguous open space. • Ohlson: It there any chance for partnering. Realistically, no. • Murphy: I agree with Don. • Miller: If we don't move on it, he could petition for some sort of zoning that will allow tall buildings. • Craig: There won't be support if he wants employment and puts in a two or three- story building. • Donovan: Agree with Phil and Don, buy it. • Ohlson: Ask for the best deal possible. Review Future Agenda Items July 7. 1999 meeting cancelled July 21, 1999 Flood Plain Task Force Report Natural Resources Adviso., Board June 16, 1999 Page 10 Downtown River Plan — Timothy Wilder Stormwater Design Criteria Land Use Code changes Mason Street Corridor project Natural Areas acquisitions Review Action Log See updated version in packet. Announcements • Gordon: Grand opening of Fossil Creek Bike Trail is Saturday. Has been moved to the Cathy Fromme Prairie parking lot on Shields due to rain and mud. • Gordon: Dan Sherman is leaving the Larimer County Recycling Center. We're sorry to see him go. He's been a huge resource. • Gordon: Would like to schedule a meeting of the Solid Waste Committee. • Gordon: There will be a clean air booth at the Holistic Fair this Saturday. They will be demonstrating electric and reel mowers. • Murphy: Walkable Communities event at Campus West on July 1. Need to call by June 28 if you're interested in attending. • Craig: Celestial Seasonings has a $50,000 grant available. The City might be able to get some of that money. It has something to do with a controversy over prairie dogs that were poisoned. Review Minutes Donovan: Page 6, 2/3 way down the page; typo. Miller: Page 6, P bullet down; wording didn't come out right, change to; all the lofty goals we want, with respect to increased recycling. Waskom: Page 7, 2"d bullet, typo. Ohlson: Page 6, top of page, change to; "Make sure we do access points well to minimize damage". Ohlson: Page 6, mid -page, change "bodies" to "staffing". The minutes were approved as amended. Flood Plain Task Force, Randy Fischer There was a Flood Plain Open House that was advertised in the paper, and cards were sent to landowners in the flood plain. I had no prior knowledge of the Open House, learned about it the night of the last task force meeting. Fischer stated the task force still does not have a good idea of where staff is coming from in terms of what they would like to see regarding changes. Natural Resources Allisory Board June 16, 1999 Page 11 Discussion Murphy: Do we have any idea what material might be available for the meeting on July 21 "? I would like to get it earlier than usual. The technical folks are working up draft recommendations starting today, they will he presented on July 8 to executive staff' Craig: Marsha Hilmes will be at the P&Z meeting as a facilitator in regards to answering technical questions. Fischer: Our focus has been option C. The group has jelled pretty closely. The momentum is toward fairly significant changes that would affect development in flood plains. Other Business Kelly Ohlson had a list of issues for the board to talk about in the future. The list is not all new items and is not all-inclusive. ❖ Really go after the baseball field issue, also need to look at minor-league baseball. ❖ Board and Commissions — backtracking by Council ❖ Communication Plan — have ideas to take to a higher level, use of newsletter, sheets of 100 ways to change your life, expand education and communication. Don Rodriguez suggested the possibility of a composite for 12 photos from John Fielder, possibly do something like a Sierra Club date book. Maybe have a photo contest and have the winners publicized in the date book. Tom Shoemaker said the Education Committee plus anyone else who would like to participate should review these ideas. ❖ Ohlson asked if we ever completed the Internal Environmental Audit. Shoemaker responded that it's gigantic, and that we can schedule a report on it if necessary. ❖ There was discussion about using $35,000 for landscaping, plus $10,000 to mount an airplane, at the intersection of Timberline and Mulberry. The Natural Resources Department should be able to get some enhancement monies. ❖ Would like staff to keep the board updated about Council agenda review. ❖ Mason Street Questionnaire, keep board plugged in if there's anything that would affect planning. Bill Miller: Need to get the representatives together to suggest times for a joint meeting between the NRAB and Larimer County Environmental Advisory Board. We may try to get involved with the Big Thompson Watershed Forum. The whole issue of water quality is becoming more important. Larimer County has strong concerns, it impacts more than just Fort Collins. We're probably looking at a half -day session on a weekend. Phil Murphy: The AQAB has an agenda item for their June 22 meeting dealing with a memo to P&Z and Council for a procedural change allowing the AQAB to express their view on AQ issues to the P&Z Board. Is this an issue this board would like to pursue? Natural Resources Advise j Board June 16, 1999 Page 12 Discussion • Donovan: Drop it. • Waksom: Would like to see it discussed. • Ohlson: All they have to do is change current City procedures to give boards a quasi- judicial stature. I would hate to preclude that option. It might only average one a year. Also believe in backing your allies' play, I'm not going to not support them. • Murphy: We should be able to voice our concerns on those kind of issues. I'm not against us saying there are concerns that need to be taken into account. • Ohlson: Otherwise we're "policy jockeys". • Rodriguez: The public would benefit from hearing from us. • Miller: Would we be duplicating the department's role at those hearings? • Murphy: That's a valid question, I'll try to go to the meeting. If come back with a draft would we be willing to be a co-signer? Randy Fischer: The mayor has said he's willing to look at other options for spending the Building Community Choices money. I sent email with about five suggestions. Several of my suggestions revolved around construction projects, such as a storm drainage detention basin at Taft and Prospect. I was thinking that there may be the possibility that items on the natural areas list could be done with some of this money if it's done in conjunction with a school, or maybe the ELC. Tom Shoemaker said the reason he hadn't asked about that was he didn't want to open up the possibility of folks saying the overage from Ordinance 29 is now fair game. Kelly Ohlson said he agrees with both of them. Adjournment The meeting adjourned at 10:20.