HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 09/04/2002MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
REGULAR MEETING
281 N. COLLEGE
September 4, 2002
For Reference: Randy Fischer, NRAB Chair -
226-5383
Ray Martinez, Council Liaison -
416-2154
Michelle Pawar, Staff Liaison -
221-6263
Board Members Present
Reagan Waskom, Steve Ryder, Nate Donovan, Linda Knowlton, Phil Murphy, Randy
Fischer, Don Rodriguez, Kelly Ohlson
Board Members Absent
Arvind Panjabi
Staff Present
Natural Resources Dent: Michelle Pawar, Terry Klahn
Utilities: Mike Smith
Guests
Jerry Kaltenhauser, Ctizen
Agenda Review
Randy Fischer asked for an update on the 10-Year Celebration
Water Conservation Rates, Mike Smith
Smith gave a presentation detailing the proposed rate increase.
• Murphy: It doesn't seem to me that this increase will drastically change how people
do things.
• Smith: I don't think we'll see a big change in the 501h percentile, but when you get to
the 75`h percentile people will see a 22% increase.
• Murphy: It seems that on a monthly basis the increase is not that big of a shock.
• Smith: When we raise the rates by 5% we sure get a lot of calls. If we don't see the
response we want we'll keep raising the curve.
• Donovan: How often can you do that?
• Smith: Once a year.
• Ryder: One thing that might make it more effective is that most of the watering
happens in the four months of summer. People will see the vast majority of the price
increase in the summer.
Natural Resources A(0ory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 2 of 8
• Fischer: How was the decision made to make it revenue neutral? If you make the
decision that it can't generate more revenue, doesn't that hamstring efforts to
conserve? To get true conservation rates might need to be quite a bit higher.
• Smith: One of the criticisms we had early on were concerns about going out and
making money off the public. We've been very sensitive.
• Fischer: How did you decide on 10%?
• Smith: That's based on this summer. It's a guess for next summer. When we know
something more in March or April we can tweak the margin.
• Murphy: Are you saying that come spring, you can change these rates. If you get
approval right now you won't be stuck with these rates for the whole year. If indeed
the snowpack isn't what we expect the rates could go higher.
• Smith: Yes, we'd probably tweak them higher.
• Fischer: In water rich years will we revert back, or is this permanent?
• Smith: It's staff's perspective that we're making a permanent change.
• Ohlson: I think this is a move in the right direction, I support the concept. I don't
remember a Council direction for revenue neutral. That should be a Council decision
instead of staff. There shouldn't be a worry about making a million dollars. It's an
enterprise fund, it can't go into the general fund.
• Smith: The more money we make the more money in the general fund.
• Ohlson: But it can't be funneled to police, or the deficits. On the other hand, Council
could give direction that we need additional staff to educate and improve things like
soil preparation, types of sod, and xeriscaping. Money can be generated for system
change. When it says a 10% reduction in water use, is that system wide, or just
residential?
• Smith: System wide.
• Ohlson: There wont be a reduction at A-B. If they chose to expand we have to
provide them water. So, basically residential is bearing most of the brunt.
• Smith: We've shifted the rates for commercial users, but couldn't do block pricing.
• Ohlson: It's more timid than I thought. I'm a little disappointed in that, but that might
go back to the revenue neutral directive.
• Waskom: Has anyone done a study looking at the middle class people and what it
takes to change their habits?
• Smith: The economists have done studies. The studies show there is some elasticity,
it varies from area to area. There are a lot of other impacts, including the types of
communities and income levels.
• Knowlton: My concern is the revenue neutral requirement, and that a 10% reduction
is way below what other communities are doing. My friends seem to be way ahead of
Council and the City. They're asking why only 10%? We've got this low number
we're talking about, and at the same time we're talking about more water storage.
• Smith: We chose 10% because that was our target this summer. We felt if we got that
by the rate increase that was a good start. Our goal is to reduce total water use by
15% for the whole city. Probably where that will happen is in the homes. Business
will not reduce that much, they depend on it for their businesses.
Natural Resources Aftory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 3 of 8
• Knowlton: You could structure it so that businesses would cut their water use if you
charged them enough.
• Smith: That's not an easy decision. You have to look at the impact on the
community. At what point are you going to cause a hardship on business? Or, when
you have people who give up their yards, and it turns to leaves and rock. Somewhere
in between there is an answer.
• Knowlton: In this area we're not leading, and we like to think of ourselves as leaders.
• Ohlson: What does A-B pay?
• Smith: I don't know, I can get it. Their usage is very constant, they don't peak.
• Waskom: What is their usage per day?
• Smith: Approximately 3.8 million gallons a day.
• Fischer: I still don't get the step charge.
• Ohlson: It's so far out, this would be the time to readjust it. It's meaningless except
for abuse.
• Smith: For some commercial accounts irrigation was included. That's why they were
so high, we wanted to catch that somehow.
• Ohlson: You need to make it clear to Council that the conservation step charge, isn't
really one. I'm so excited over the concept that I can be patient for a year or two over
the details.
• Smith: We've looked at the same thing on electricity for air conditioning uses.
• Ohlson: Is A-B exempt from all of these changes?
• Smith: We can change their rate. They'll experience a rate increase to encourage a
10% reduction. I don't recall their rate offhand, it may have a fixed fee.
• Ohlson: One could wonder why we didn't think of this ten years ago. But, as soon as
people did, staff responded quickly. It's a positive change.
• Smith: The Water Board had one concern. They're concerned that the community
has had a history of people doing what they want. They're concerned about
government forcing people to change their habits without it being a conscious choice.
They supported the 10% increase, but they had a discussion about the issue of long
term goals.
• Ohlson: This is fair, its market driven. I don't hesitate to say we ought to all,
including myself, be using less water, especially on exterior turf.
• Ryder: What does the 10% reduction buy, as far as postponing the need for new
storage?
• Smith: We did run figures on how that would impact the future. I don't recall them
off the top of my head, but it does have an impact.
• Smith: We have a long way to go in getting through to people, and getting them to
understand the real issue at hand.
• Ohlson: If you didn't have the no income restriction you cold hire more people for
education.
• Donovan: The key is to create incentives for those that don't get it. I realize it's hard
to take drastic steps. It may be 4 years or so down the road before we get it right.
• Ohlson: We need to be on this. When we get wet years, Council wont have the
incentive to do the tweaking that needs to be done.
Natural Resources Aory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 4 of 8
E. Mulberry Corridor, Pete Wray & Russ Leg
Fischer said this is follow-up to our last meeting, where the board had quite a few
comments. Craig Foreman apologized for the scheduling conflicts. He said he did meet
with Steve Ryder and went through the board comments.
• Fischer: Steve, did the memo address your comments?
• Ryder: We able to discuss most of my concerns between the three of us. A lot of it
gets into what they're trying to accomplish with the plan. The main question I had
talked about Principal Env-1.
• Ohlson: The flood plain regulations really don't do anything in this City. The
floodway regs do,
• Fischer: Kelly's right, Council did back off at the last minute on some critical things.
You can still take things out of the flood plain using fill. Residential development is
prohibited in the flood plain, but commercial is still allowed.
• Wray: We've added an action item to bring our different regulations in sync.
• Ryder: It would be a desirable opportunity to do something with the backyards along
Mulberry.
• Wray: We're in the process of developing new development standards, that will be
supplemental regulations. We'll be back with the development standards when
they're ready. It wouldn't hurt to add that comment, if you support the plan, that
you're supportive of following through with the specific set back requirements.
• Donovan: On page 4 of the memo where you've added the words "sensitive wildlife
habitat", it looks like the 582 acres includes public and private land, which I guess
could be a vacant lot that's privately owned.
• Wray: That includes open grassland and wetlands to ditch corridors and tree and
shrub habitat. Some is private and some is public.
• Donovan: That's important to identify. It gives the impression that it was protected,
or targeted for protection.
• Legg: That was a comment Steve made, we're going to put additional information
with the table.
• Donovan: So, those targeted for protection would include public and private land?
• Wray: Most of the buffers through the Cooper Slough are private.
• Ohlson: It makes me nervous that the source is the City of Fort Collins Natural Areas
Inventory. That was done in 1991, or 1992.
• Wray: Doug said that's in the process of being updated
• Pawar: It won't be completed before this is adopted.
• Legg: We're adopting a 20 year plan. We're assuming it's going to be modified. The
place to make sure it's modified is in the regulations.
• Ohlson: I don't want to wait for a ten year renewal, when in 10 months it will be
obsolete. It could be neutral in acreage.
• Donovan: On page 5 of the memo it says the buffer is measured to the boundary of
the development lots. Is there any setback requirement on the back side of lots?
0 Legg: Yes.
Natural Resources Afsory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 5 of 8
• Ohlson: On page two, talking about being water conscious, that's a bit weak for me.
James Smith, who is representing Donaldson and Company said he'd like to offer a visit
to the slough for the board. He said they are environmentally conscious had have offered
various alternatives to the proposed plan. He said a report had been completed and he
would get it forwarded to the board.
Linda Knowlton made the following motion:
Move that the NRAB support the proposed E. Mulberry Corridor Plan, and that we coordinate
wording of the plan, City Structure Plan, and the Master Street Plan.
The motion was seconded by Phil Murphy and unanimously approved.
Randy Fischer will craft a memo to Council.
Linda Knowlton made the following motion:
Move that we support the proposed water rate increase, block rate structure, and that we
coordinate the wording of a memo to that effect via email.
The motion was seconded by Reagan Waskom and unanimously approved.
Randy Fischer said he'd be interested in taking Mr. Smith up on his offer to visit Cooper
Slough.
Smoking Update, Michelle Pawar
Pawar said we've been getting tremendous input and feedback from citizens. We plan to
present the data in a way that will ensure a distinction between the statistically valid
survey and the other citizen input. So far from the folks who were surveyed they
supported a more restrictive ordinance for smoking in restaurants. They would not
necessarily support prohibiting smoking in bars, and that designated smoking areas would
be ok. Those are the critical outcomes of the process. We've definitely done outreach.
We go back to Council on September 24.
• Ohlson: The bowling alley and bingo parlors are very important. Children, and
others, bowl.
• Ohlson: On the second page it says the data predicts that "most residents would
oppose" it should say "a majority of residents would oppose".
• Ohlson: I would hope this includes outdoor dining at restaurants
• Knowlton: At restaurants any outdoor patio areas should be included.
• Donovan: I definitely support a ban outside of public buildings. There needs to be a
designated smoking area. A good example is the main library branch.
• Knowlton: What percent of establishments are taverns?
• Ohlson: Whose budget did this come out of?
Natural Resources Atsory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 6 of 8
• Pawar: NRD, CPES, and the City Manager's office. It was a shared expense. We as a
department will put together a recommendation.
• Fischer: Government has to do what's right, not just what's popular. I would endorse
the draft ordinance that was attached. The thing I think is missing in the survey
results about it being ok to have designated smoking areas in bars is the employees
that work there. Those people are unprotected. Some say a person can chose to work
there they want, but economically they may not have the choice to quit a job. While
it's true that patrons can vote with their feet, but we're expecting someone to work in
a place that is hazardous.
• Ohlson: I've never seen a smoker in a car put their butt in their ash trays.
• Hamrick: There are littering laws.
• Donovan: I would like to see the full copy of the survey:
• Murphy: At some point we have to take a look. We need to see the recommendation,
and maybe put our recommendation behind it. It amazes me that people who smoke
have rights. I hope this City comes out in a strong way. Maybe there will be people
who quit smoking. I cant believe the number of kids who are smoking.
• Pawar: Council has not asked for recommendation.
• Knowlton: Let's recommend to Council that they change the ordinance now, sooner
rather than later. I don't see any strong will from Council to do anything.
• Ohlson: I hope that Council makes a decision. They're elected as leaders.
• Knowlton: The mayor has already said it looks like this should be on the ballot.
• Pawar: We will bring what we plan to present at the study session to the NRAB
September 18 meeting.
Comments on Memos
• Fischer: We need to get the budget memo in soon. Things are happening behind the
scenes that could render this moot if we don't take action quickly.
• Fischer: I had asked Michelle to follow up on what happened to the NRD budget in
the 2002/2003 budget. Pawar said that it was confusing. She had met with the Budget
folks and some moneys were re -distributed in the budget process.
• Donovan: I appreciate your way of articulating memos, but it seems that we
superlatives a lot and create a sense that's there's an emergency. It may dilute the
effectiveness of our recommendations.
• Fischer: Would you prefer to leave out the adjectives?
• Donovan: I think so. I'd be willing to help with the language.
• Fischer: Have you heard any reaction about whether or not this budget request will
see the light of day?
• Pawar: I haven't heard anything specific about our request, but it's been made clear
that we have a directive to look for areas where we can implement cost saving
measures.
New Business
Natural Resources Afsory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 7 of 8
• Ohslon: I've asked for feedback about the numbers of acres. I have concerns that the
City and the County double count. When they both give their acreage totals they
count joint acres.
• Ohlson: The County is moving to commercialize their open lands. They are going to
get commercial sponsorship for picnic areas. I'm appalled and disgusted, and hope
the City doesn't move in that direction.
• Ohlson: To the City's credit they're sponsoring a Green Building event. I would
hope they work toward systemic change.
• Ohlson: I really hope that the 10-Year Anniversary celebration has a little more
presence and intensity than was at New West Fest.
• Pawar: Should it be called anniversary or birthday? Several members seemed to
agree it should be anniversary.
• Ohlson: The Solid Waste Committee needs to take up a discussion to recommend to
Council to move away from using the percentage of diversion rate as the deciding
factor in recycling achievement. Per capita, recycling in the City is declining.
• Ohlson: I would like to meet with staff to discuss frameworks and to get a handle on
management plans, and signage.
• Rodriguez: At a natural areas meeting there was a discussion around the idea of
monitoring natural areas. We began thinking about a monitoring program that
includes standards and indicators
• Ohlson: Linda and I have been out and noticed kiosks that have nothing in them, at
Arapaho Bend. You'd think we could get some of them out. There are many that are
blank.
• Fischer: This is nothing new. It's an old issue. In 1997 they built a kiosk and there's
never been anything in it. There's one badly faded map of the trails in the one on the
east side of Pineridge. The one by Dixon is not only empty, but it's falling apart. It's
been five years, and nothing's ever been done with it. It's not just that, but the
signage too. Why did it take seven or eight years to get the social trails closed? It
makes you wonder what people are doing with their time.
Future Agenda Items:
Sept. 18: Halligan Reservoir, Brian Janonis
Sustainability
October 2: Energy Policy, Mike Smith
I-25 Plan Open Lands Update, Joe Frank
November 6: Fossil Creek Reservoir Open Space Management Plan, Meegan
Flanniken
Add Rural Transportation Authority to the November 6, 2002 agenda.
Approval of Minutes:
July 17, 2002: With the following changes the minutes of the July 17, 2002
meeting were unanimously approved.
0 Correct the attendance: Steve Ryder was not present.
Natural Resources Atsory Board •
September 4, 2002
Page 8 of 8
• Page 5, bottom: Change "put their best foot forward" to "Don't put
their best..."
• Page 2, 5`h bullet: change to " back of the protection of the slough"
• Page 6, 2"d sentence: change to "the NRD is walking around with
shackles on"
August 7.2002: The minutes of the August 7, 2002 meeting were unanimously
approved.
August 21, 2002:The minutes of the August 21, 2002 meeting were unanimously
approved.
Committee Reports
No reports.
Announcements
Randy Fischer will be out of the country for a month.
Kelly Ohlson would like an update on the air quality monitor.
Adjourn