HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 12/07/2005MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
Regular Meeting
200 W. Mountain, Suite A
December 07, 2005
For Reference: Nate Donovan, NRAB Chair
- 472-1599
Ben Manvel, Council Liaison
- 217-1932
John Stokes, Staff Liaison
- 221-6263
Board Members Present
Linda Knowlton, Glen Colton, Clint Skutchan
Randy Fischer, Ryan Staychock, Rob Petterson, Nate Donovan Joann Thomas
Board Members Absent
Gerry Hart
Staff Present
Natural Resources Dent: John Stokes, Mark Sears, Liz Skelton
Utilities: Kevin McBride
Engineering: John Lang, Kyle Lambrecht, Patrick Rowe
Guests
Ann Hutchinson
The meeting was called to order at 6:04 p.m.
Minutes
With the following changes, the minutes of the Nov 02, 2005 meeting were unanimously
approved:
• Skutchan (Page 3, 1" Bullet, 2"a sentence, Legislative Policy Agenda): add
"where it is appropriate" to the end of the sentence.
• Skutchan (Page 7, 10`h Bullet, 5th sentence, NRAB Workplan): Replace "the
road" with "roads"
• Skutchan (Page 7, 10`h Bullet, 6th sentence, NRAB Workplan): Change "There
will be opportunities in the next couple of years" To "There will be
opportunities upcoming in the next couple of years".
Public Comment
There were no public comments at this meeting.
Stormwater Quality Update
Kevin McBride, Senior Stormwater Engineer from the Utilities Department,
presented an update to the board on the Stormwater Quality program.
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A video of the Oak Street runoff into the Udall Natural Area was played for the board.
Mr. McBride handed out a copy of his PowerPoint slides to the board.
• McBride: The Oak Street outfall drains about a square mile in Old Town. This
is just the size of storm that was intense enough to wash everything off, but not
enough water to get any dilution. So it is a worst -case scenario from a water
quality standpoint. Visually, you can see the color; of course it's made up of
road wear which is black and tire which is black. From storm to storm the
parameters really vary as far as their concentration, but there have been times
when there has been an E. coli count.
• Donovan: CSU has a committee and they only meet once a year. Is that part of
their stormwater runoff incidence?
• McBride: That's part of their permit. They are big enough that they need their
own discharge permit for campus. What I'll show you today are some of the
same things they have to do to meet their permit requirements, although
obviously it's a little bit different in that setting.
• Donovan: Will you go over how Udall is constructed to do the various levels of
treatments and whether what is coming out of the pipe has been pretreated to
some extent by the settling pond?
• McBride: I can talk about that briefly. What I want to do here is give you a
broad -level overview of what the Stormwater Quality program is. In the past,
there's been a lot of connection between the Stormwater Quality program and
the Natural Resources Department and that's why I'm here. Actually, the real
reason I'm here is you'll see that there are six parts to a stormwater drainage
permit. In the stormwater permit, the cities argue effectively against having any
kind of effluent limit because it is so costly and difficult to sample stormwater.
We're always asked about that, but imagine having a group that is ready to go
out and work on a moment's notice in any kind of weather, and you have the
Fire Department. The City just doesn't have the kind of resources to go out and
sample stormwater that way. This first slide is a picture that shows the
difference between what comes out of the Oak Street outfall in dry weather and
what happens when it rains. Obviously there is an extreme difference in those.
• Skutchan (re: WaterSHED Education program & contact hours with students in
Poudre School District): How do you go about interacting with the schools? Is
that through Eco-weeks?
• McBride: No, this is actually Eco-week here in the picture, and we do Eco-week
with over half the schools that do Eco-week. Part of the program actually
started by going to the schools, getting in with the principal and going to the
staff meetings and describing what we are doing. We didn't want access to talk
to them about some governmental topic; we wanted to help them do their
science education. We developed a rapport over the years with the teachers,
which is why our contact hours are so high. In many cities, they just print
brochures and throw them out there. They are a good captive audience for our
message and then the teachers are inviting us back because we are helping them
teach their science classes.
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• Fischer (re: Spring Creek at Drake Road picture): The nice stream your
showing, at the bottom part there was a beaver there who cleaned out that
channel. The way you have it now, as water flows through the channel the
vegetation creates roughness and you can only flow so much through. The
beaver had been cleaning up that roughness. I thought beaver ponds were great
water quality ponds. Why did you have to kill the beaver?
• McBride: Well, that was not the Stormwater Quality program. I actually was
not consulted in that decision. There were concerns about debris from the
beaver dam and what would happen to it when it washed downstream. The
beaver dam wasn't modeled in when they did flood modeling for this.
Seriously, you could actually do that. In fact, as Randy says, there was
additional work done to make sure the designated channel would work there.
One of the problems that we will actually face in trying to do restorations in
other parts of town is if we take a channel like that (before picture) and make it
like that (after picture), it'll be remodeled and we'll actually have to get flood
control mapping and that will be problematic. All those things could be
modeled and in an urban environment they make us do some of that now. As
Randy probably remembers, at one point we had actually envisioned that our
Stormwater Master Plans were going to be complete rehabilitation plans for the
creeks as well.
• Staychock: Who made the decision?
• McBride: I think it would probably was made from the maintenance people to
the higher levels of the organization.
• Staychock: Of Stormwater?
• McBride: Of Utilities.
• Stokes: Kevin, tell me if I'm wrong, but one of the issues with the beaver dam
was that they were worried about was debris piling up against bridge and
holding back water and then having a surge. It's tricky in these little urban
streams. One of the things we have to manage for is getting water downstream,
but that may sometimes conflict with having beavers or even vegetation like this
(after picture). There is a tension between moving water out and allowing
things to be heavily vegetated or having beavers live there. Randy's right that
beaver ponds are great water quality ponds, if you have a big place that's not so
impacted by humans. The ranchers I worked with when I worked at TNC, we
would really work hard to get these guys to leave the beaver ponds. They raise
the groundwater levels and put more water in wells, they clean up your streams,
and provide better vegetation and grazing for wildlife... they create incredible
centers of diversity.
• McBride: We haven't had a lot of luck with having them in an urban
environment though. I like the beavers, personally. I think if we can move to
these kinds of models — I ask you not to focus on one problem that went on —
but the whole stream corridor as it is and the things that we can do together to
make that happen. Beavers in urban environments create real flooding
problems.
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• Stokes: Kevin came in and we talked about this idea of having a wetland
mitigation bank that would be comprehensive in nature. In other words we
would look at all the streams corridors in the City and do mitigation projects
that were systemic. In other words, we wouldn't be looking at doing a one-off
small mitigation project here, or here, or here, as compensation for some project
elsewhere in the City, but we would try to look at the system comprehensively
and do restoration in a more holistic way. That would do a couple of things for
us; we would have a wetland bank, but we could also be doing a job that is
much more universally addressing stream health. Right now, a lot of what we
do is we take mitigation projects and do them piecemeal without thinking about
how they all integrate or don't integrate and how they contribute to the overall
health of a stream corridor. There is an enormous amount of complexity in
trying to create a wetland bank like that, but it's intriguing because instead of
doing things on a one-off basis we would think about the whole system.
• Skutchan: In the context of that, obviously this is an isolated incident. But you
are talking about doing more, and would that be considered as well into that
process? Basically, you put out a welcome mat to a beaver and it came in.
• Stokes: We have to factor in all kinds of things.
• Skutchan: But it wasn't modeled here, so I guess 1 want to know if it will be in
future projects?
• Stokes: We haven't thought that far ahead. That's a question we have to ask
ourselves. The Natural Resources Department's restoration work has really
cranked up over the last two years. Rick Bachand is our restoration ecologist
and he has made a master plan for restoration on all of our properties. It's very
impressive and we should have him come in to present. In our long-range plan,
we're planning to spend $500,000 a year on restoration over the next ten years.
It sounds like a lot of money, but some of the sites we have to restore are
enormously degraded. It's not a huge amount of money and it goes fast. I
wanted to share this with you because we are doing some really interesting stuff
on Poudre and also some upland restoration as well. That program is really
maturing and starting to take off and it's cutting edge work.
• Donovan: Not to focus on the beaver, but to use it as example, if things are
restored so that it creates more of a potential for obstructions like that, are you
saying that in the future things like beaver dams wouldn't be allowed to exist
after they're constructed because it's too expensive to map what the effect
would be and to calculate the potential impact of that? Is it just kind of a no
tolerance that we don't want to deal with it because one, we don't want the
event to occur, but two, it's too expensive to try to factor those in to the future?
• McBride: Let me answer that question by talking about rehabilitation vs.
restoration. My professional opinion is there were beavers in the streams before
our ancestors got here. A pure `restorationist' would say unless you have
beavers in here doing their thing, it's not really a restored system. So maybe the
right term is rehabilitated. Maybe if we can go to the point where if we had to
say yes to beavers, are they going to be problematic in an urban system, so
we're probably not going to get beaver, but there's many other species that can
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be supported in something like this, better so than the before picture and that's
realistically what we can do at this point. Some people didn't like the beaver
and how much they really cleaned it out. They cut down all the cottonwoods
and I know that Natural Areas used a lot of paint on the trees to try to prevent
the beavers from taking them all down, but the willows came back like
gangbusters. As much as I would like to see beavers, realistically that would be
shooting for the moon. We need a lot more open space in order to have them.
We have many examples: Rigden Farm, Sage Creek Harvest Park, Fossil Creek,
other different streams, of the work that we've done to restore these creeks to a
better functioning system. That will be a different project than the stormwater
permit. That's going to be a different thing. Public involvement is what we
need for all these things.
• Donovan: My last question is with respect to your stormwater control
ordinance, can you describe that at a fairly general level? Is it pretty basic in
terms of what you're required to do for your federal permit, like things that you
prohibit?
• McBride: The short answer for what we're required to do under the permit is all
on slide #5. We have to have a Public Education program, a Public
Involvement program, an Illicit Discharge program, and there are a lot of
components to each one of those. I tried to keep this fairly short and not bore
you with the details. However, the two most visible are the construction site
permit and a post -construction permit. Basically you have to have an ordinance
to require the design criteria that you have, plan review, construction review,
and enforcement. That's what we track with databases and the kind of
information we turn in to the State and Feds.
• Donovan: So it's not just limited to the illicit discharge portion? In other words
there is a lot more...
• McBride: No, it's very comprehensive and it's affecting all development in
town, in terms of preventing pollutant discharges to the maximum preventable.
Which frankly the State is trying to figure out...
• Donovan: What that means or what that requires...
• McBride: Exactly. We get pulled back and forth from "sample every storm" to
making sure the BMP is in place.
• Staychock: This is a general question. Does snow drainage have any effects on
stormwater quality?
• McBride: I had read a couple of papers that said that snowmelt, liter per liter, is
slightly more polluted than rainwater, simply because it hangs around the road
longer. What's polluting stormwater — I don't think illicit discharge is it —
maybe some unintended connections from old infrastructure, but I don't think
people are dumping a lot of stuff in inlets; it's basically urban life: automobiles,
and one new area that is building is architects like to use copper. Copper
happens to be the heavy metal that most frequently is elevated. It's in brake
linings; it's from copper roofs, etc. But that's why with green building, people
are just starting to do leach tests on roofing materials. So, we have a long way
to go before tracking where things are coming from.
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• Staychock: So you said that statistic was snow...
• McBride: Is somewhat more polluted, liter per liter, simply because it hangs
around longer. Now, I don't know if that really makes sense because what's on
the ground gets washed off anyways. But that leads to a lot of other post -
development design. Like, in the planning end you see more and more people
talking about LID, which is Low Impact Development and the EPA is really
pushing this topic. I wonder about it sometimes. They are pushing things
called rain gardens, which is really a poorly -drained hole in your yard. They
have other fancy names for it. If you put one in and landscape it nice, it looks
nice, but with West Nile Virus is that really something you want? The Center
for Disease control is opposed to those, yet the stormwater people from EPA are
talking these up in a big way.
• Skutchan: What do you see as the biggest challenges and what changes do you
see in the future?
• McBride: Our program has a great head start because the City of Fort Collins
has been after this for the better part of a decade. We had a policy that said that
we prevent pollution, treat what we couldn't prevent before it was discharged,
and to protect and restore habitats in the stream. Frankly, since the flood in
1997, a vast majority of the Utilities' resources has moved toward flood
prevention. I think that for the citizens who aren't going to sit through a
presentation like this, the stream corridors are the thing they would notice the
most as far as the Stormwater Quality program. That's a policy question for
you all to be figuring out.
• Skutchan: My question is, you're going through these processes and might be
attaining goals, but is there anything that you're trying to build on?
• McBride: It takes a lot of work just to maintain the six minimum measures. We
can talk about doing better and more, and the way to do that is through studying
what is going on, what other people are doing, what successes are happening,
and working with other government agencies and that type of thing. We are
trying to be innovative with things like the Udall area. Post -development
controls are only required in new development. Well, that would mean a lot of
development before Old Town was treated. So the City of Fort Collins, with the
help of Natural Resources, did something like Udall and now a square mile of
downtown is getting treated that normally wouldn't be. We're also looking at
doing that for the Mason Street outfall. And we're looking at doing another
regional treatment facility. That will treat more of the area and we won't be
putting out perfect water but it would certainly be better. And we'll allow
redevelopment of the central core of Fort Collins, which is a Council directive,
without having to go over stonmwater quality on -site, which is very problematic.
So if we can do things like that we can have win -win situations. I think that's
one of the bigger areas that we are getting out beyond regulations to treat areas
that are already developed.
• Donovan: So that Mason Street outfall project, what phase is that in?
• McBride: Conceptual design.
• Donovan: I think this board would like to be involved in that.
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December 07, 2005
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• Colton: Isn't there already some wetland areas that are already doing some of
that? Is some of that happening almost naturally?
• McBride: Yes. There is a small structure there — it's probably about 5% maybe
of the volume, if we were to take the same requirements that went into
development and were used for the Udall site — it is an infinitesimal, small
amount.
• Colton: So it won't handle a big storm?
• McBride: The whole design criteria is based upon a curve and the question is
money vs. tradeoff. But you're right; the rest of that old oxbow is providing
some natural treatment. In theory, what we'd like to do is not to have the
natural areas provide the treatment, but to have the treatment upstream in a
storm -sewer system so that by the time the water reaches the natural system it is
already treated. That's why when we talk about beavers and ponds and those
kinds of things filtering — those are all things from the habitat standpoint, but
once the pollution is out in the natural environment it is extremely hard to
control. We'd like to do that control before it gets there.
East Prospect Road Project
• Lang: This is the final design; there are no changes to the project. Our plan to
partner with Natural Resources right from the beginning turned out to be a great
process. Mark and his staff have been involved from the beginning and we
think we've gotten close to a win -win situation here. We've done our best to
not impact the natural areas, but to enhance them in ways that are beneficial to
both of us. We are still building the interim section, which is pretty much right
at the ballot language. We tried in this past budget process to get a little money
to build the four -lane section, but that was turned down. So we are building
exactly what the ballot language calls for. It will have two travel lanes, one in
each direction. We've installed medians with turn bays. There are only two
places to turn which are both natural areas so they will have dedicated turn bays.
We'll have an off -road trail sidewalk and we'll have the on -street bike. So
you've seen it before. We're going out to bid in mid -January and the process
we're trying to accomplish tonight is a recommendation for the right-of-way
and area disturbance or easements. Since Mark has been involved he will
actually do the presenting tonight.
• Donovan: Are we talking about temporary construction easements over the
natural area or permanent easements? Or both?
• Sears: We are talking about both. There is not a lot of need for additional right
of ways. The additional right-of-way is fairly minimal and that is shown by
solid red line. Wherever there is a solid red line, that's where the additional
right-of-way is being required. The thick black line is the temporary
construction easement. That basically also demarks the area of disturbance.
There are also a couple of places where they're going to be requiring drainage
easements. All that is summed up in the table that was in your package. The
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total comes to almost $91,000 compensation for the right-of-way and drainage
easements and temporary construction easements.
• Fischer: I'm curious why Natural Areas is responsible for the restoration of the
parts in between the red and black lines?
• Sears: They are going to do the initial seeding on all the disturbed areas, but
then everything outside of the right-of-way line, we will do the follow up work,
ongoing weed control, mowing, and whatever is necessary to keep the
vegetation reestablished.
• Fischer: Why?
• Sears: There again, this is a partnered thing; they are doing a lot of favors for us
and this is a way to return the favor. They are building the parking lot for us
and managing that, they are taking out some big stockpiles for us, so we're
agreeing to do the restoration management.
• Lang: Randy, it basically came down to expertise. We knew how to build a
parking lot and design it and all the project management, and once we seed, the
Natural Areas program knows best how to maintain and mow and weed and that
kind of thing so it made sense to do it that way.
• Sears: There is one additional item that I forgot to put in the agenda item
summary. Right at the bridge area there is an Anheuser-Busch forced sewer
main that comes from the Anheuser-Busch plant down to the sewage treatment
plant and when they build that bridge they are actually going to relocate that
line. The current easement is this teal line, and they are going to relocate to this
easement that is the black line. We will allow them to do that and won't charge
them for the easement because they are going to vacate the existing easement.
It's kind of a wash area -wise. They will be restoring this stretch of this stream
which right now is a channel, much like that before picture of Spring Creek that
you just saw. When it's done it will look like the after picture.
• Staychock: Is that where they transport their used seeds and stuff? Isn't that
what that trench is for? Doesn't that go down to Timberline — the sanitation
district?
• Lang: It goes to the wastewater treatment plant. I believe they suck fresh water
up and yeast -filled water down.
• Staychock: Yeast, that's right. When does construction start?
• Lang: If we have good bids, we hope to be out there by mid -March. We plan to
wrap it up and go out to bid mid -January, we will solicit bids for one month,
and then we partner with the contractor, check references and get a new
schedule and basically get to work two months after we went out to bid.
• Staychock: When will it be finished?
• Lang: We're shooting to be finished in the year 2006. It's a lot of work and a
short ways to get there. Asphalt pretty much runs out in October. We really
have an aggressive schedule to get all this work done.
• Staychock: Approximately how much money are we looking at?
• Lang: The Building Community Choices Project was a $5.8 million project.
Certain funds were used upfront for rehabilitating the road initially, for aerial
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mapping, endangered species searches, preliminary design, all the design
products, right-of-way, and we'll be down to a construction cost of between $3-
$4 million.
• Knowlton: I assume that there will continue to be efforts to get the six lanes out
there?
• Lang: To be very honest, I don't think there's very much effort to get six lanes.
That's been pretty much bagged.
• Knowlton: So the four lanes?
• Lang: Four lanes is still a goal. It can be done without further impacts to the
natural areas. We've designed it that way. We just don't have the money to do
it. Some development to the East is probably going to trigger that someday in
the future. Whether it's in two years or five years or eight years, I'm not sure; it
probably won't be much longer than that. But when the State decides they're
going to improve the Prospect interchange and when development improves the
section between Summit View and the frontage road, I think this section will be
looked at as a bottleneck.
• Knowlton: So if/when that happens there wouldn't be impact on the natural
areas outside those black lines on this map?
• Lang: There wouldn't be impact hardly beyond the red lines.
• Donovan: When you build within that right-of-way you're going to...
• Lang: That's our plan.
• Sears: They're going to do all the embankment work so when they come in and
widen they just need to lay down the asphalt.
• Lang: We would cut a foot of asphalt and add the parkway and sidewalk and
extra lanes. It's pretty much set up so it's a one -impact on businesses and
community and the natural areas.
• Staychock: I know that this bridge up here is ready for four lanes.
• Lang: Yes.
• Staychock: So is that bridge there going to be built for four lanes?
• Lang: Absolutely. It will actually be a slight -bit larger. The existing Poudre
bridge does have four lanes but it's tight in terms of having bike lanes or
sidewalks. We're widening the new bridge a little bit so we can have dedicated
lanes for all modes. Plus a trail.
• Donovan: You said new bridge... I just want to make sure...
• Lang: This is the new bridge...
• Donovan: You're not going to reconstruct this one as part of it — you wouldn't
need to?
• Lang: No, sir. We would have to someday take a look at how to get pedestrians
across. Pedestrians and bicyclists. It just wasn't built to have both, separately.
• Staychock: There's a big bridge on Mulberry you could take down and put over
there!
• Lang: Being a State bridge, and that being over 50 years old, it is so dangerous
for somebody to try to get across the Mulberry bridge. That is a pedestrian and
bicycle bridge, because it's just impossible for somebody to try to walk across
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December 07, 2005
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that bridge. There is no room, there is a concrete jersey barrier in the middle
and it's four lanes. The state actually paid for that through their CMAQ fund to
enhance pedestrian access there.
• Fischer: I recall that when we saw this before there was a plan to widen this
roadway and we recommended against that. What's the final decision on that?
Also, these look like shadows of utility poles?
• Lang: They are utility poles currently, they are currently going to be
underground, and so we've removed that. To be very honest, my gut says there
are not going to be lights here. If we get good bids, and have good construction
and very low contingency, that has been the requested first alternative. I
personally think that we will not be able to afford lights along this roadway.
From a safety -point we're going to probably have to have a couple along the
bridge, but just the bridge.
• Donovan: That reminds me; we also previously discussed this idea of a hedge or
bushes in a raised median and the issue that might have with attracting wildlife.
The lanes are going to be separated by a center median. Is there a plan to put
vegetation on center median?
• Lang: In the old configuration, there was a Prospect Road Streetscape plan that
called for hedged roads and more of a natural landscape instead of the urban
landscape. That is in the four -lane, ultimate scenario. Right now we are
building the medians, but they are not going to be raised medians, they are
going to be at -grade medians.
• Skutchan: Could you sketch that out, how it would work out from the level of
the road?
• Donovan: So, at -grade means like a curb?
• Lang: At -grade is a six inch curb and then there will be a dirt area. We are
going to try to put it in level so it settles ever -so -slightly in the center to absorb
moisture. The plan is to dry -land seed the medians. I've looked for more
money and I can't find it. I can't irrigate it; I can't put any more plantings in.
So, I'm not sure how that will play out when we actually build it. There are
very few medians in town that have dry -land seed and nothing else. I believe
that may be an issue later on. It will definitely not look like Taft -Hill -Drake -to -
Trilby: 44 trees, grass, plantings. This will be a natural -looking area and it's
meant to fit in to the natural environment here.
• Donovan: There are some opinions that that project is great, but in the middle of
the drought is when we got that done and we had to irrigate it and plant trees.
People were saying why are we doing that; why are we planting trees that will
probably die in five years?
• Lang: Luckily, it came out well.
• Donovan: Is it the temporary construction easement that goes back here? I
realize that's not City property, but how far back does it go and is that mainly a
staging area?
• Lang: It basically comes back until it has a place for the sewer to get out and the
channel to work its way through. We have an area of disturbance along this
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December 07, 2005
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drainage, which nothing really more than a ditch, but there are several large
piles of gravel along there. We wanted to get in there and make sure we had
that area in the area of disturbance so we can get a contractor to get it, pick it up
and get it out of there.
• Sears: That's where the stream restoration is going to take place.
• Lang: One of Mark's key goals upfront was he didn't want a straight ditch; he
wanted it to meander back and forth and to look like he could be proud of it.
• Sears: The thing that's nice is this is an unnatural area in our natural area. This
parking lot and mountain of dirt will go away and that whole area will be
restored to look much more natural.
• Donovan: Another question was the temporary construction easement on this
portion — it seems like its disturbing more area than on the western side, and I'm
wondering what the reason is for that? Does it have something to do with the...
• Lang: Trail?
• Donovan: ... trail coming along — oh, that's right.
• Lang: Yes. This will be used as a temporary staging area for us and quite
possibly the contractor. The asphalt will be picked up. The permanent trail
comes through, goes under, works its way back up towards road, parallels the
road around this pond, joins there to the parking lot, and continues on in this
green fashion. It was just easier to pick more land than less in terms of an area
of disturbance. Since it was all non -natural and any area we remove is one step
closer to getting it restored, it made sense.
• Donovan: As far as the Transportation Planning mind, the ultimate build -out — if
the right-of-way limit is right here and the trail tracks it right there, what is the
sense of if it goes to four lanes, how the trail will need to move or will it need to
move?
• Lang: The trail will not need to move. It is in its ultimate location. In areas
where we could move it farther away from the road, we did. Where it gets to a
driveway or the entrance to Riverbend Ponds, it's right up on front because that
is the safest place. We don't want people coming out of the bushes. Where we
had to impact waters of the United States through a 404 permit, the goal is to
mitigate the disturbance. So that's why in that particular area it is up close to
the road. As we get further down in the Running Deer area, it makes no sense
to have it jammed up next to the road because people will have a better
experience if they are a ways off. Since it was all Natural Area's land, it wasn't
like we had to buy it from an outside developer, to minimize costs we just called
it an area of disturbance, we'll build trail, Natural Areas will pay for it, and
everybody's happy.
• Skutchan: How large is parking lot area -wise?
• Sears: I think it's enough for 10 cars and a school bus — maybe a couple
handicapped spaces.
• Staychock: I thought the standard was 35 cars and 2 buses?
• Sears: We don't really have a standard size. We try to size it as best we can
anticipate.
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 12 of 18
• Lang: When we first met with CSU, who owns this property, we were trying to
deal with accesses. We couldn't have an access that was real close to a bridge
because that just isn't safe. Their biggest problem was they get school buses in
there and they can't turn them around and get them out. So this new parking lot
is an oval -shaped parking lot. We'll have several car slots and bus slots. Looks
like 14 spots, some are handicapped. So you were right on, Mark.
• Donovan: Will there be access to the Environmental Learning Center and
Running Deer Natural Area eventually?
• Sears: Yes, that will be available immediately.
• Lang: There are trails that currently head south out of here — it does circle
around to here.
• Staychock: My only main concern is that avian bird that's there. I don't know if
I saw him last year.
• Sears: The osprey?
• Staychock: Yes.
• Sears: We moved the nest back far enough so that it wouldn't be hampered by
construction. I don't believe they successfully nested last year. They started
nesting two years ago. They were trying to nest on top of some transformers so
we decided to build them a nest site.
• Donovan: So you successfully disturbed them?
• Sears: Well, what was happening was the male was nesting in one spot and the
female was across the street.
Linda Knowlton made the following motion:
I move that the NRAB, having reviewed the plans for the East Prospect Road
Improvements project, that we recommend to Council that the temporary construction
alignments, drainage alignments, and the right-of-way alignments needed across the
natural areas be granted to Transportation Services for the total compensation of
$90,833.20
• Sears: Linda, can I ask you to add in to that the Anheuser-Busch Forced main
utility easement?
• Knowlton: OK. So after right-of-way alignments, then add "Anheuser-Busch
Forced Main Utility Easement".
The motion was seconded by Randy Fischer
• Donovan: It seems that we want to be recommending easements instead of
alignments. Or is that intentional?
• Lang: It's intentional because the City can't grant itself easements, but we can
grant ourselves alignments.
• Donovan: So with that one addition, is there any discussion?
• Skutchan: I'd just like to say, throughout working on this, from where we
started to where we are now I think I've seen more of the ideas that we passed
along on this project integrated in and more adhered to than any other project.
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 13 of 18
I'm thankful for that. From where we started is a far cry from where we ended
up.
The motion passed unanimously.
Updates
• Stokes: I just wanted to announce that we were awarded a $216,000 grant from
Great Outdoors Colorado (GOCO) for the Southwick conservation easement
that is right on County Road 15, right as you approach Soapstone. You had
made a recommendation on that and we got that. We split that into two phases;
so we have the first phase's funding and we will go back in the spring for
another grant to tie up the second phase and we just have to match 25% of the
cost of the easement. We were potentially going to have to find a conservation
buyer for the underlying fee interest in the property, but the current landowner
has now indicated that he might be interested in staying there. We'd be
delighted if he wanted to stay there; it would make our lives a lot easier. We are
negotiating with him on that now.
• Sears: We also closed on another 25-acre conservation easement in the Tinmath
separator area. That brings us up to 300 acres.
Committee Updates
• Donovan: If Randy, Ryan and Rob could update us on the Solid Waste
Subcommittee meeting that would be much appreciated.
• Petterson: What's going on is the City is working on the five-year strategic plan
for trying to achieve the 50 % recycling goal that the Council set some years
ago. In order to do that, they've hired a consultant to help analyze different
strategies to achieve that goal. The consultant has modeled different programs
that can be used to help achieve parts of that goal and then put together the
information about those different possibilities. As part of a Public Outreach
meeting on December lst, the consultant and the City staff presented various
sample packages containing some of those different possibilities to achieve the
goal and got feedback from the public at that meeting. I believe those are now
available on the website through the Talking Trash website and the public has
been giving feedback through that channel also. So at our Solid Waste meeting
earlier this evening, we basically went through the different programs that the
consultant modeled and gave our suggestion for a package, basically, of those
possible programs for the consultant to be able to do a consolidated modeling
of. You take different point elements, different things you could do to increase
recycling, put together a package of them, and you get a total increase of
recycling, total cost and whatnot. We gave a slightly different take on which of
the different possible programs ought to be modeled together in a package like
that. We also discussed at some length strategies for presenting these materials
to the City Council when staff goes to City Council in February to get their
blessing, understanding, direction, and whatnot at the work meeting. Our plan
is to meet again in January to discuss this. At that time the City's consultant's
contract will have expired and she will have delivered the deliverables for
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 14 of 18
which she is responsible and City staff will be beginning to take those
deliverables and more concretely determine how they are going to present this
to City Council and we're going to be a part of that discussion and strategizing
and reviewing and whatnot.
• Stokes: I just found out today — it looks like the 6-month calendar was changed
and that date has been pushed to March.
• Petterson: That will give us more time. You're welcome to review the material
on the website and any of us can chat with you about it.
• Skutchan: Did you guys attend the meeting last Thursday?
• Fischer: There was a good turnout.
• Colton: Lots of questions, suggestions, and good ideas. My biggest concern
was that the financials were very unclear as to what the impact would be on city
ratepayers for their garbage vs. recycling cost. They showed a cost for
diversion but they didn't compare that to the cost of sending it to the landfill.
So they didn't really understand what the impact would be. I think the first
thing a lot of people will ask is, what is cost to me as a ratepayer going to be?
• Donovan: Some did ask that question. They asked, "if I divert everything, are
my costs going to go up?" It's the scenario that diverts the most and shows the
most cost to the consumer.
• Colton: My suggestions was when we do impact fees for the City you have
different rates based on commercial, vehicle miles traveled, residential — that
they model four or five different — you know for a 20,000 foot commercial, for a
typical residential home, for a 200,000 big box and they show what the net
impact is.
• Petterson: Randy brought that concern up and we did talk about the need to
show more concretely what it's going to look like for a real user of the system.
That's an important piece.
• Donovan: Since most of us weren't there, can you tell the board what the format
of the meeting was? Was there a period to mill around and look at the charts,
and she did presentation took questions and then what happened?
• Colton: More milling.
• Skutchan: What's the timeline on that? Where does it go from there?
• Petterson: The Steering Committee will meet again December 20`h and around
that time the deliverables are due from the consultant and then the City staff will
take that and work on their presentation for City Council which is now in March
and then City Council will presumably say whether they are supportive of
things and give some direction I guess.
• Skutchan: Will the board get a look at it before it goes to Council?
• Donovan: Yes, perhaps January 18th.
• Stoke: Yes, we'll be in here before we go to Council probably in February.
• Petterson: Yes, I would expect we'll have the Steering Committee look at it in
January and then we'll come to the board here at the next convenient meeting.
• Sears: The Trails committee will not have a formal meeting this month, but we
will be reviewing the trail line at Bobcat Ridge for phase 3 — the northern route.
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 15 of 18
Theoretically, we're supposed to go up Friday. We'll make a final decision by
about 2:OOPM tomorrow afternoon. It depends on how much snow is up there.
Some of the staff has already walked it and said that it looked good. Phase 1 is
all done and looks good. This is phase 3.
• Stokes: It's an extremely pleasant, super nice walking experience.
• Sears: I didn't have anything for the Natural Areas committee, so I'm proposing
to cancel that meeting. I don't have any agenda items.
Agenda Planning
• Donovan: Just a reminder that the December 21s` worksession is canceled. And
then, John and I have been talking about the first meeting in January — possibly
pushing that off to the third Wednesday, so January 18`h?
• Stokes: We don't have anything scheduled for the 4th right now. We do have
several items scheduled for the 18`h having to do with I-25 and also State
Highway 392. So, both of those CDOT teams will be in here making
presentations about the EIS on I-25 and the environmental assessment, or
whatever they are calling it, on the State highway 392. What I've also heard
from the City Clerk's Office is that Council will be making its appointments to
the new board and I'll know who is on the new board at least by the 20`' of this
month. I've gone ahead and scheduled them arbitrarily for January 11w to have
their first board meeting. Your meeting would be on the 18`h. I'm interested of
exploring the idea with you of having one meeting a month with this board
instead of two, and I would like to pose the same thing to the new land board
that they meet once and month and see how that goes. If we need more we can
always schedule more. I'd really like to have one of the boards meet the first
week on Wednesday, and have the other board meet on the third week on
Wednesday. If you're supportive of that, I'd like to know, do you have a
preference for the first or third week of the month? We don't have to decide
that now.
• Petterson: My preference is for the third week.
• Donovan: That's mine as well. I just want to make sure that we don't get
locked in to only having one meeting a month in case things come up.
• Stokes: Well, we wouldn't change the charter or the bylaws which say that we
can have two meetings a month. That's up to the board. It's up to you guys to
make that call.
• Skutchan: Randy, does having two meetings a month create an additional stress
for you as the committee chair? The rest of us just show up.
• Donovan: No.
• Stokes: And we would make every meeting a regular meeting so that you could
take action.
• Donovan: Does it make it easier for you to have the separation so that one is the
first and one is the third week instead of second and third week?
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 16 of 18
• Stokes: Yes, definitely. We're getting ready for Council meetings a lot too. So
we're trying to juggle getting ready for meetings. It's really helpful to have that
separation between the first and third week.
• Skutchan: What about for Terry?
• Stokes: She is going to be the person handling both meetings. Keep in mind
though, that for the most par[ NRAB has usually met twice a month. If we go
down to once a month and the land board meets once a month, she's not
increasing her workload. If we start meeting more than that we might have to
adopt a different approach.
• Staychock: Is there any word on the reappointments of both Joann and/or I?
• Stokes: I haven't heard a word.
• Knowlton: That will be handled on the 20th
• Donovan: By Friday morning or Thursday afternoon before the 20th the agenda
will be printed and we'll be able to see the names.
• Staychock: Do I have to lobby to stay on?
• Stokes: There were a handful of good applicants for this board. Maybe six?
There were twenty-seven for the Land board, which is a really big number and
is unusually high. Ben Manvel and Doug Hutchinson are the Council members
who are nominating applicants for the new board.
• Donovan: Do you know who is interviewing for this board?
• Stokes: I don't know who is interviewing, but I know who applied.
• Donovan: So those two are doing interviews for the new board, what about this
board?
• Stokes: I don't know who did the NRAB.
• Knowlton: Did we decide we're not meeting on the 4th, we're meeting on 18th?
• Donovan: On the 18th.
• Stokes: The 21" is canceled, the 41h has no agenda items and is kind of a bad
day, and the 18th is good to go.
• Skutchan: I wouldn't mind addressing some of the wildlife corridors in
concentrated areas where animals are located and interacting with humans (i.e.
foxes running through cul-de-sacs). It looks like there will be more expansion.
Can we get an update on that?
• Stokes: Yes, it might be fun to have Donna Dees come in and talk to you about
our wildlife management.
• Skutchan: I know there are some concerns with the trail over Mason. We've not
had an update in a while.
• Stokes: Donna knows a lot about where the critters are and their travel
corridors.
• Skutchan: The other thing is I went to that meeting with the newly formed
Citizens' Bike Advocate group and they might be somebody we could work
with on the Trails Committee. I was amazed, there were about 200 people there
the other night.
• Knowlton: Citizens' for what?
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 17 of 18
• Skutchan: I forget the full name. Rick Price came here and addressed us. It's
the Citizens' Initiative committee that helped push through the bike coordinator
position. They're continuing on with several ideas. They had some questions
the other night about trails and connections. They might be a good resource.
• Donovan: There were several things that Randy wanted the board to consider,
and some of the things we got done by this year and some of them are yet to be
done. One of them was the future role of the Natural Resources Department.
Do you have an idea on when we could talk about that?
• Stokes: Jan 18th, or February if the CDOT guys need a lot of time. I'll talk to
Mark Jackson to see how long those guys are going to take.
• Fischer: I was interested on getting an update from Doug Moore on the
implementation and enforcement of the buffer standards, and some examples of
recent projects.
• Knowlton: We talked about a meeting in January or February — because I really
do see an unclear line right now between this board and the new board. I can
think of issues that would be a question in my mind of is it theirs or ours? I
think we're going to have to sort things out.
• Stokes: It's going to be hard to draw a bright line. I think as things come up we
can talk about it.
• Knowlton: For example, what came up tonight with the alignments, which was
about natural areas, it was about road construction, so where would that fall?
• Stokes: In my mind, that would have fallen to the Land Conservation
Stewardship Board.
• Skutchan: Do you foresee areas where there will be overlap?
• Stokers: Yes. I'd be surprised if there aren't issues that overlap. I can't think of
one off the top of my head. We'd go to both boards. We'll learn along the way.
As issues come up that the board wants to talk about, we should talk about
whether that is an NRAB issue or Land board issue and figure it out.
• Staychock: Maybe we can schedule an hour into an agenda to have a discussion
about what the natural resource implications are in the City of Fort Collins. We
could think outside the box; things that we haven't done in the past. I see this as
a new opportunity to discuss some things; especially that relate to the
Sustainability Plan in Fort Collins, business, some economics...
• Colton: Are you reading my mind? That's what I was thinking. I was going to
suggest an offsite or something to get a couple hours or a half day to have a
good brainstorming session.
• Donovan: I would be about time to do that again as we transition.
• Stokes: That agenda item is better sooner than later. That would be a good one
to try to squeeze into the 18th and that will be helpful for the board and staff.
We can bring ideas to the table and help you bring issues to the table that you'd
like to know more about.
• Staychock: I think that's a great idea, especially with budget cuts. Maybe now
the board can offer a lot of direction and take a more proactive role.
Natural Resources Advisory Board
December 07, 2005
Page 18 of 18
• Stokes: Now that you don't have natural areas to consider, you have some more
time to consider some other interesting stuff.
• Skutchan: If we're going to address some interesting, intriguing topics, I'd
rather come here for 3-4 hours rather than 1 hour out of my night. I'd rather be
here longer and get some business done.
• Donovan: I mentioned when I started in 1998 and the board had just gone to two
meetings a month and part of that was driven by the fact that we were all here
from 1 1pm-12 for the one meeting.
• Stokes: It may be like that again.
• Skutchan: I had some 6-month agenda planning stuff. Does anyone know what
the ad -hoc health and safety committee is?
• Hutchinson: It's to keep Council more updated on police and fire services. It
will be a Council committee.
• Skutchan: January the 10`h — the water rates. I seem to recall that there were
several questions that we left up in the air after we last talked to them.
Obviously there will be more that's coming out of this worksession so we may
want to follow up on that. The same thing with the Northwest Subarea plan, we
just need a good update on that. I would suggest that we look into this: the
Convention and Visitors Bureau Services will be at a worksession January 24`h
and that's something outside the box that's on the economics side.
• Colton: They were going to have three meetings for public input this month. Do
you know when the next one is?
• Skutchan: There's one tomorrow at the Visitor's Bureau. And then, looking at
March 28"' — the Transit Master Plan update; is that something we could see
ahead of time? I think that was something we had asked about at the last
meeting.
Meeting adjourned 8:22 PM
Submitted by Liz Skelton
Administrative Secretary I
Approved by the Board on , 2005
Signed
amara Courtney
dministrative Secretary I
Extension: 6600
of /18 / Ou
Date