HomeMy WebLinkAboutGolf Board - Minutes - 11/16/2005City of Fort Collins
Cultural, Library, and Recreational Services
Golf Board
Minutes: Regular Meeting of November 16, 2005
Council Liaison to the Board: Councilmember Diggs Brown
Staff Support to the Board: Jerry P. Brown, Manager of Golf at 221-6350, and Dawn
Worth, Administrative Aide at 416-2265
Call Meeting to Order: Board Chairperson David Johnson called the meeting to order at
7:00 p.m. at the City Park Nine Clubhouse.
Agenda Review: "Potential Modifications to Prime Time/Non-Prime Time" was added
to the Agenda.
Items of Note:
• Lauren DeRosa called to inform us that she was unable to make the meeting and
Shane Houska called to inform us that he would be late. (Jay Kammerzell arrived
at 7:10 p.m.)
Approval of Minutes: Grant Sherwood asked that the Minutes be modified to show that
a comment regarding Manno's Grille on page 4 was made by David Thilmany and not
himself. On a motion by Grant Sherwood, seconded by David Thilmany, the Board
unanimously (6:0) approved the Minutes of the September 21, 2005 Regular Meeting
with the correction.
Citizen Participation: None
Review and Approval of the Golf Board 2006 Work Plan and Meeting Schedule
Jerry previously sent a draft 2006 Work Plan and Meeting Schedule for the Board to
review. He briefly discussed the items and dates. He said that the Board typically meets
at Collindale, however when Manno's is hosting an event we will meet at either City Park
Nine or SouthRidge. He informed the Board that Council will have a Periodic Review of
the Golf Board in the spring. He said that Council passed a Resolution several years back
where they review a few Boards every year and they will send the Board a survey to fill
out.
Jerry reminded the Board that next year the Review and Recommendation on the
Contents of the Collindale Golf Professional RFP Package and the Appointing of two
Board Members for that Committee will take place in July, and the Review and
Recommendation of the SouthRidge Restaurant RFP Package and Appointment of two
Board Members to that Committee will take place in August. He stated that the current
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November 16, 2005
Page 2
contractors will both complete their loth year in 2006, and by City Code we have to go
through the full RFP bid process. He is expecting quite a bit of interest and has already
received interest in the Golf Professional position. There was then a motion made by
Larry Buckendorf, seconded by Dan Preble, to approve the Golf Board's 2006 Work Plan
and Meeting Schedule as submitted. The motion was approved unanimously (7:0).
Consider Canceling the December 21, 2005 Meeting
On a motion made by Jay Kammerzell and seconded by Grant Sherwood, the Board
voted unanimously (7:0) to cancel the December 21, 2005 Regular Golf Board Meeting
due to the holiday season. (Shane Houska arrived at 7:20 p.m.)
Potential Modifications to Prime Time/Non-Prime Time
Jerry explained that he didn't have this item on the Agenda because the Agenda was put
together before he received David McCleave's report and he felt that tonight would be a
good night to start discussing this because there isn't much on the Agenda. Jerry stated
that we have the Structure of the Fees and Charges pretty well in place, but the other key
element is what we established as our Prime Time and Non -Prime Time. We put those in
place several years back and we've modified them, most recently last year we modified
the SouthRidge Non -Prime Time. He mentioned that we've been discussing this issue at
the staff level for several months. Things are different than in the past because of the
economy and more competition due to the increase of golf courses in the area.
Historically Prime Time has been on weekends and Fridays. Because of the increasing
competition we need to encourage more play at City Park Nine seven days a week.
City Park Nine Golf Professional David McCleave stated that he previously worked in
Greeley and the courses there were always busy on the weekends. When he came here he
expected it to be the same, but that hasn't been the case so we have been trying to come
up with ways to attract more players. He said that he would like to start a Men's
Association next year and maybe allow Annual Pass Play on the weekends or possibly
lower the fees at City Park Nine. He feels that we need to do something different since
it's not getting utilized as much as we would like. Larry Buckendorf feels that City Park
Nine should be totally Non -Prime Time because it's a different level of golf course. He
said the question we have to ask is can we generate more play and revenues by utilizing
100 percent Non -Prime Time rates, and his inclination is that we could. He feels it gives
us a marketing edge that we can advertise. Grant Sherwood asked if it would cause
confusion if we have different Non -Prime Times? Jerry said that initially it could cause
some confusion changing the times, but we already have three different sets of Prime and
Non -Prime Time at all three courses. Grant said that he knows we're doing that now, but
he was just wondering if it causes a problem every time we change it. Collindale Golf
Professional Jim Greer stated that when we first changed the times it was a little
confusing, but everyone quickly got use to it.
Jerry said that it's a business decision why we don't have more Non -Prime Time at
SouthRidge available because we'll still attract players there at the higher rates. If that
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November 16, 2005
Page 3
wasn't the case he would also consider doing something different there. He just feels that
City Park Nine needs a boost and he feels that there's nothing wrong with the course, it's
just a different environment and we need to finds ways of attracting more players.
SouthRidge Golf Professional Dale Smigelsky asked if we thought we'd sell more passes
if we opened up Annual Pass Play at City Park Nine? Jerry said that we probably will and
he feels that we'll probably sell more next year anyway with the addition of our new age
60-74 fee. He mentioned that David McCleave has already had inquiries about it and this
will give people a place to use that. David Johnson feels we need to look at each course
separately and we need to go to the Professionals for their opinions because they are the
ones that see it day-to-day. He said that these changes could be good for the golf business
as a whole. Jerry said he feels it's worth a try. Jim said that it looks like we're trying to
make an effort for the Annual Pass Card Holders. Dan Preble asked about making a
recommendation, and Jerry said that the Board could make one tonight if it desires. Jerry
explained that he discussed this with CLRS Director Marty Heffernan and they both
believe that the City Manager will allow them to make the decision since it isn't an actual
fee change. Jerry mentioned the change we made at SouthRidge has worked like we
wanted it to.
Jerry stated that he feels we could lose money at SouthRidge if we made any changes at
that course. He mentioned that we've only looked at one change for Collindale. Jerry said
that he had a conversation with Collindale Assistant Professional Pat Finnegan about
some ideas and they decided if anything is done it should be on Sunday. Pat said that
Sunday afternoons are slow. He said that he has tried to get a couple of groups going on
Sunday afternoons, but he hasn't had any luck so he feels that opening it up on Sunday's
would bring out some Annual Pass Card Holders. He mentioned that the Annual Pass
Card Holders also sometimes bring non pass players with them. David Johnson said that
in doing this we may attract more business folks looking at passes.
Jay Kammerzell suggested giving a coupon for pass holders that says you can come out
and play on a Sunday afternoon with your annual pass. Larry said that when splitting up
days like that we need to think about how it would effect other times of the day. Pat said
that on Sunday mornings it's not slow until around 11 or 12 then it just kind of drops off.
Larry said that if a player knows he can play at a certain time and pay less then why
would he play at any other time and in doing this are we going to take out a good amount
of players from late Sunday morning? Jerry said that in the staff meeting we felt that
12:00 may be too early. We thought that it might be better to do it between 1:00-2:00 and
we settled on 2:00 p.m. Pat explained that he understood Larry's concerns and not
everyone will be able to get those times so they'll have to play at a different time. Larry
asked what Jim's opinion was and Jim Greer said that he didn't feel that it would be a
problem.
Jerry mentioned that we also discussed modifying the overall Prime Time and Non -Prime
Time. Currently Prime Time is from April 1st to September 30th. He said that after Labor
Day play slows down. Jerry said that the Golf Professionals have the option under our
current policy to declare the course Non -Prime Time if the condition is not up to
standards and in April that can be the case and it has been in the past. He feels that we
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November 16, 2005
Page 4
should keep April 1st as the start of our Prime Time and we'll let the customers know if
we are going to be Prime Time or not based on the course condition. Our
recommendation at this point is to do a little by giving them two more weeks and start
Non -Prime Time September 16th instead of October 1st and see how it goes. Jerry then
said that his recommendation is that we expand Non -Prime Time from September 16th
through March 31 st; at City Park Nine the options are that we go full Non -Prime Time or
we start it on Sunday; at Collindale we leave it like it is or we start Non -Prime Time
sometime on Sunday afternoon; and do nothing differnt at SouthRidge. David Johnson
suggested that we make Sunday afternoon Non -Prime Time at Collindale. Jerry reminded
them that it was stated on the memo that it would start at 12:00, but we discussed 2:00
and David agreed that 2:00 p.m. would be a good time.
Larry sugessted that we accept option B for the overall which is to expand Non -Prime
Time from September 16th through March 31st; option E for City Park Nine which it to
eliminate all Prime Time and have only Non -Prime Time fees and charges; option B for
Collindale with the time to be determined by the staff; and do nothing at SouthRidge.
David Thilmany asked instead of keeping the Prime Time and Non -Prime Time at
SouthRidge and Collindale has it ever been entertained to just raise the Non -Prime Time
rate by $1.00 and make it a flat rate year round? Jerry said that we've discussed that. He
said at this point he would like to study that more and possibly look at it for next year.
Deron Grothe asked Dale and Jim what concerns them about pulling away 9-hole Green
Fee Players during Prime Time on their courses. Jim said that 18-hole play at City Park
Nine is basically non existent, but there has been a lot of Prime Time 9-hole play,
especially at SouthRidge. Dale mentioned that the majority of them are leagues. He said
that it's amazing that more people are turning towards 9-hole play because of the lack of
time they have. Jerry said that he believes that with the quality of our courses people will
want to play, and the restaurants add to that and we just can't offer that at City Park Nine.
Jim mentioned that we lost a few seniors because of Mountain Vista. Pat said it was
around 12-15, but because of the rate changes we're offering next year they'll probably
come back.
On a motion made by Larry Buckendorf, seconded by Jay Kammerzell, the Board
unanimously voted (8:0) to accept option B for the overall which is to expand Non -Prime
Time from September 16th through March 31st; option E for City Park Nine which
eliminates all Prime Time and have only Non -Prime Time fees and charges; option B for
Collindale which is beginning Non -Prime Time at 2:00 p.m. on Sunday; and not make
any changes at SouthRidge. Jerry said that he'll discuss the recommendations with Marty
Heffernan. Jerry then mentioned the Twilight time issue, and Dale suggested that we
change our Twilight time from November through February starting at 2:00 p.m. because
of the lack of daylight. There were no objections.
Other Business
• Jerry mentioned an article that he gave the Board on the new Timnath Harmony
Golf Club now under construction, allowing non -club members to use their
amenities. Larry Buckendorf said that he believes they are only offering
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November 16, 2005
Page 5
clubhouse amenities to the public and that the golf course will be private. Jerry
also mentioned that the article said the course will be home to CSU Men's and
Women's Golf Teams, so effectively they might do some practice with us, but
they may discontinue playing the City Courses.
Board Member and Staff Comments/Reports
Dan Preble asked if the City Park Nine Golf Course Superintendent has mentioned
retiring? Jerry stated that he wasn't sure when that was going to take place, and when and
if he does decide to retire we'll probably have an open recruitment.
Correspondence/Financial and Statistical Reports
Jerry said the revenue report that he gave the Board through October 31st showed that we
were at 92.73% and he checked this afternoon and we're at 95% so we're about $120,000
short of breaking even. He figures that we should end up around $50,000 short by the end
of the year and we're saving approximately that much on the expenditure side so we
should break even and be able to go into 2006 without making any cuts. He mentioned
that we'll probably buy $180,000 in equipment next year through lease purchase and it'll
be the first major equipment acquisitions we've bought in three years. He said that in
January he'll give the Board the report showing 2005 expenditures and revenues. He
believes with the change we've made to annual passes next year we should see an
increase in revenues.
Adjournment:
On a motion by Deron Grothe, seconded by Jay Kammerzell, the Board unanimously
voted (8:0) to adjourn at 8:03 p.m.
Meeting Attendance
Board Members
Larry Buckendorf
Shane Houska
Deron Grothe
David Johnson
Jay Kammerzell
Dan Preble
Grant Sherwood
David Thilmany
Respectfully submitted,
Dawn Worth
Administrative Aide
Staff Guests
Jerry P. Brown Pat Finnegan
Dawn Worth John Schuh
Jim Greer
Dave McCleave
Dale Smigelsky