HomeMy WebLinkAboutWater Board - Minutes - 05/16/1986MINUTES
Water Board
May 16, 1986
Members Present
Norman Evans, President, Neil Grigg, Tom Moore, Dave Stewart, John Scott,
Marylou Smith, Tom Sanders, Stan Ponce (alt.)
Staff Present
Bill Carnahan, Mike Smith, Dennis Bode, Webb Jones, Andy Pineda, Curt Miller,
Ben Alexander, Paul Eckman, Assistant City Attorney
Members Absent
Jim O'Brien, Henry Caulfield, Ray Herrmann (alt.)
President Norm Evans opened the meeting. The following items were discussed:
Minutes
The minutes for April 18, 1986 were approved.
Update on Water Demand Management Program
Mike Smith reported that since the last meeting, staff incorporated some
changes in the report relative to Water Board suggestions. The rewrite which
MaryLou Smith suggested, has not yet been done. Dennis Bode added that staff
included a one sheet summary at the beginning of the report. In the
comprehensive report, staff made some changes that were suggested last time.
The questions and answers sheet is basically the same. A public document may
be prepared when there is some indication from Council if they intend to go
along with the staff/Water Board recommendations. Mike Smith thinks the Water
Board and staff need to develop a strategy and direction at today's meeting.
Neil Grigg proposed that with the Thornton matter in the forefront, and with
the task of how we respond to their plan, it might be well to table this
effort until we can get things into perspective; not to say that metering is
not a good management option. The Board is on record as affirming that. Dr.
Grigg agreed to make that a motion. MaryLou Smith seconded his motion.
Mike Smith raised the prospect of metering new houses, one aspect of the
program which would not entail much cost. Dave Stewart thinks that is a good
point. He would also like to see a time associated with the motion. Neil
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May 16, 1986
Grigg agreed to include in his motion, an automatic September review of the
management plan, and received the approval of the second. Dr. Grigg would
not consider the motion to preclude taking off the table the metering of new
homes as another management step. Tom Moore pointed out that we would still
continue to install yokes in all new construction. Once that is installed,
he said, it isn't that costly to put in a meter at a later date. Dave
Stewart commented that the difference is that the builder absorbs that rather
than the City.
Tom Sanders agreed with Mr. Moore that the yoking program for new homes
should continue. However, he contends that everything else pertaining to the
metering program should be placed on moritorium until the September review.
Because of the Thornton issue, "the whole game plan has changed." We must be
realistic on the allocation of resources. He questions trying to save
resources at this point. We need to detemine where we will get the most for
our money, he stressed. If resources are limited, the need for metering is
obvious, but at this point, that is not the case, he added. If and when
there is a physical connection with Thornton, i.e. the pipeline, what are we
going to have to pay for water? When we buy all the water we can at
reasonable prices and there is no other source of water, and we have a better
handle on what Thornton is going to do, then metering is the logical
alternative, he concluded.
John Scott doesn't want to see the program get tabled and thus give the
impression that we are going to buy water instead of metering. He doesn't
think that installing meters would be saving water for Thornton. That is not
the purpose of it. Dr. Sanders interjected, "but that's what happens; that
water is available to be bought!" Mr. Scott countered, "they're not going to
get the water from Fort Collins --they're going to get it from irrigation
companies or whatever."
Dave Stewart argued that all the studies which were done on metering, show
that it is time dependent. The longer we wait, the less effect it is going
to have. Dr. Sanders believes it is the same thing as buying water at $1,000
an acre-foot now rather than waiting until the price goes up. "Once that
physical connection is made, water is going to go up to $5,000 an acre-foot
at least," he predicted.
The question was called. The motion carried unanimously.
Committee on Water Issues
Chairman Neil Grigg reported that his committee, composed of Dave Stewart,
Tom Moore and himself, has met and they have had a number of discussions with
different parties. There are several things that are underway; one is the
regional meeting on May 20 at the Marriott on "The Future of Water in Northern
Colorado." Each Water Board member should have received an invitation. This
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May 16, 1986
meeting will be our attempt to enter into a broader discussion on a regional
basis, what we might do as a region to respond to the Thornton proposal. He
reported also that the Fort Collins staff has met with the Thornton staff to
try to determine exactly what Thornton plans to do. He said that he and Bill
Carnahan participated in the Thornton "Water Day" that took place recently.
They interacted with them and heard their report. Dr. Grigg talked with the
Mayor and City Manager of Thornton. Water Supply and Storage Co. met with the
Thornton City Council as was reported in the newspapers. Dr. Grigg contacted
Harvey Johnson to talk with him about that, and Mr. Johnson met with the
sub -committee prior to today's meeting to discuss some of the things that were
happening. Our committee will continue to study this issue, he said, but
until the May 20th meeting is over and we determine more of the facts, we are
not ready to make a definite recommendation.
John Scott asked if the open invitation from WSSC to buy up shares of water,
generated a lot of offers. Tom Moore responded that very few had actually
been offered. "That shows how thoroughly Thornton purchased anything that was
distressed," he emphasized. There is really no water on the market; not even
North Poudre, Eaton Ditch or CBT. Just about everything that hasn't already
been optioned somewhere has been pulled off the market while people wait and
see what it might go up to next, he concluded.
John Scott said he wonders if it should be the City's policy to buy up future
water rights and perform the function of a broker. He doesn't think this
should be the City's role. It would be acceptable if we would join in some
regional water supply, he added.
Neil Grigg said there are many options left which the committee will be
thinking about. He would like to see us keep an open mind about what we
should do because it isn't clear yet who is going to step forward to do what.
Many different arrangements need to be explored. Dr. Grigg asked Bill
Carnahan to explain the agenda of the May 20th meeting.
Mr. Carnahan prefaced his remarks by saying that since he has been with the
City, he doesn't remember anytime this diverse a group has assembled to talk
about anything, let alone an emotional subject like water. He went on to say
that the posture the staff has taken is that the City of Fort Collins
currently, does not have an official position relating to Thornton. We are
trying to seek facts and identify options on behalf of the City and the Water
Board. First we are trying to identify in detail what is the Thornton plan,
realizing their plan is still fairly conceptual. We met with their staff, as
Dr. Grigg reported, so we would not be relying on heresay or newspaper
accounts. Now we think we "have a handle on" what they are saying they plan
to do.
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At the first part of the meeting, the Thornton plans, as they have explained
them to us, will be presented. We want to make sure we are all hearing the
same thing. The second part of the meeting will be to discuss the concerns
that various entities have with that plan. Perhaps then we can all begin to
see the other:person's viewpoint. More importantly, we are looking beyond
Thornton. There may be a strategy developed relating to Thornton that may be
somewhat different from one developed beyond Thornton -- the next group that
comes along with a similar intention. The afternoon session of the meeting
will be to discuss stratagies, options, ideas -- a brainstorming session to
get those ideas on the table. This is not to infer that a strategy or plan
will be agreed upon at that meeting, but to emerge with ideas that a sub-
group of those entities could explore further and have a subsequent meeting
to say "here is what the flesh looks like on this -outline." The City, at
that point, would be in a posture to provide staff support to explore some of
those options. Perhaps some of the other entities would also volunteer.
Probably what will emerge is a broad -based coalition -- whether it will be a
regional authority or something else will probably be determined. It is very
important for us not to be segregated one on one, vis-a-vis Thornton meeting
with one group at a time. As we look at the long term strategy we don't want
to develop a posture of different entities developing a game plan that might,
in fact, be working against one another and perhaps bidding the price of
water up because everyone is trying to preserve it for the benefit of one
another. We need to make certain that that doesn't happen.
Mr. Carnahan stressed that staff hopes that the meeting will be a mechanism
where there is a good exchange of ideas, and that the participants will
identify the major issues and decide where we go from there. He added that
KUNC radio in Greeley is hoping to broadcast the meeting live and that cable
vision is contemplating taping the entire meeting. Thus, those who aren't
there will be able to hear it live or perhaps see -it later on tape. The
invited participants are cities and towns in Northern Colorado, water users,
industrial users, developers, environmental groups; nearly everyone we could
think of who might be interested in water. Thornton has not been invited,
but they are welcome to come and listen. We do not intend to provide them a
forum to sell their program again, Mr. Carnahan assured the Board.
Dave Stewart asked if setting up a regional water authority has any anti-
trust implications. Paul Eckman said he couldn't think of any off hand but
will give it some more thought. Norm Evans said that there are enabling
state statutes that provide for it. There is no question an authority could
be organized. Mr. Stewart said by setting up an authority you are going to
hold down prices which might lead to price-fixing and not having the water on
the open market. That would be the reason we would set it up, to hold down
prices, he added. Could that be a problem, he asked? Paul Eckman doesn't
see that we would be fixing prices. We would merely be attempting to purchase
water as a group. Bill Carnahan explained that forming an authority
would not necessarily be to hold down prices. Its function would be to
maintain the water in the basin -- not necessarily for price control: ---
Stan Ponce added, "nor would it have to be sold to the highest bidder." He
sees it more as an allocation process.
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Tom Sanders asked what Greeley's response to this plan is. Mike Smith
responded that the people he has talked with present both sides of the issue.
People there are just as emotional about it as people here, from both
perspectives.
Norm Evans related that he had some discussions with Mr. Farr from Greeley,
who is realistic about water issues. His view is that this occurrence was
inevitable. Dr. Evans also commented on the South Platte Coalition of which
Mr. Farr has been a strong supporter. The Coalition began with the major
water users of the South Platte Basin which means the 4 conservancy districts
and the major irrigation companies. Their clear csut objective is to get more
water users working together for management on a basin -wide basis. They have
seen that nobody can gain by the tactic of each small holder of water trying
to protect itself against all comers because that is just endless litigation.
"We can do that and all go broke." Some cooperative basin -wide management
offers some kinds of solutions and compromises that can benefit everyone for
less cost than litigation. The Coalition has moved cautiously to bring the
cities of the basin into their fold, thinking that the Coalition needed to
get their feet on the ground to know how and where they were going before
they opened actively to the cities. They invited Fort Collins as the first
City to join -- Greeley was next, then Longmont. Dr. Evans said that they
had some visits with the Denver Water Board and with the Metropolitan Water
Suppliers -- the suppliers consist of 44 of the major water supplying
organiations in the metro area. At the last meeting Bob McWhinney who is the
water supplier's executive officer, came to say that 41 of the 44 suppliers
were ready to join in the Coalition to finance a basin -wide general management
plan study. That really opens the door to South Platte basin -wide management
thinking and planning. Personally, Dr. Evans thinks it offers some
tremendous opportunities to deal with issues like the Thornton case. For
example, could it be that Thornton's ownership of 35,000 acre-feet in the
Poudre Basin, could be integrated in a basin -wide sense where that water or
that which is deliverable, could be delivered without taking any out of the
Poudre Basin by exchanges on a large scale basin -wide arrangement. That's the
kind of question that a basin -wide management plan would deal with. He
anticipated that we may hear from the Coalition representative somewhat along
those lines.
Tom Sanders commented that one way to gage the extent of the Thornton project
is to monitor the size of the pipe they intend to install. He contends that
the pipe will turn out to be far larger than is projected at this time. Neil
Grigg interjected that the pipeline isn't expected to be built for 7-10
years. "We should still monitor their plans for any changes," asserted Dr.
Sanders.
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May 16, 1986
John Scott suggested that a way of delaying the pipe would be to convince
Thornton of a good way to arrange exchanges perhaps with Greeley's water out
of the Poudre --South Platte Basin water. It would be a good way to solve
Thornton's problem, "if this is all they want," he added. Dr. Evans said he
neglected to mention that at the South Platte Coalition meeting at Longmont,
Thornton was represented. It was suggested to them that they consider holding
up on their plan if the Metro Providers joined the Coalition to finance a
basin -wide study and see how things would go. The Thornton representatives
there, at that time, said that sounded like a good thing to do. They
couldn't commit the City to do it but they did express interest in it.
Recognition of Water Board Members -
Tom Sanders reviewed his reasons for pursuing a plan for recognizing five
long-term Water Board members. The five members Dr. Sanders listed for
recognition are: Ward Fischer, Harvey Johnson, Norman Evans, Henry Caulfield
and Everett Richardson. Dr. Sanders related that there appears to be support
from the City Council for this idea as well as from other City officials. He
emphasized the contribution these people have made with regard to the City's
water policies and water resources. He considers their contribution to be
unique among all other boards and commissions. He stressed that if we do come
up with some form of recognition, he is convinced that "we need to make a big
deal out of it in the form of media coverage -- a real celebration!"
The Water Board discussed several ideas for recognizing these individuals.
Tom Sanders urged the Board to recommend what needs to be done and with
expediency . Neil Grigg said -we have two ways to go; we could brainstorm and
try to come up with something or we could have a small group who would meet
with a couple of Council members to explore some options, and come up with a
rec ommendation. The Water Board suggested several options; he thinks there
may be others we have not thought of.
Neil Grigg moved that the Water Board agrees in principle with recognizing
these five gentlemen and appointed Tom Sanders as chairman of a committee to
develop a proposal to go to Council. Tom Moore seconded the motion. Mary Lou
Smith and Stan Ponce volunteered to serve on the committee. The motion
carried unanimously.
Possibility of a Board and Commission Refresher Workshop
Dr. Evans explained that more than three years ago a workshop was held for
City board and commission members. He considered it to be a very valuable
experience and thinks that the new Board members who weren't there to
participate and even those who had, would benefit from a refresher course. He
continued by saying that the workshop was a fruitful one for both Board and
staff in pointing towards better coordination, better harmony, better
understanding of each other's roles and functions; also pointing out where the
Water Board could take a more low key involvement in technical intrusions into
staff functions. He asked for the Board's reaction to such a workshop.
Tom Moore moved that arrangements be made for a refresher workshop,
specifically for Water Board and staff. Dave Stewart seconded the motion.
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Mike Smith announced that Bill Carnahan is leaving and two new Water Board
members will be appointed in July. It might be better to wait until there is
a replacement for Mr. Carnahan and after the new members are appointed, he
said. Tom Moore modified his motion to reflect this.
MaryLou Smith wished a clarification of the purposes of the session; is one
that we use that meeting to determine whether we need to update our long
range planning, and the other the relationship between the staff and Board,
she asked. Dr. Evans verified that those two would be included on the
agenda. He read five items from the workshop report: Roles and relationships;
conflict handling styles; Board/staff performance; Performance targets and
priorities for the next 12 months; items for improving Board/staff team work.
A vote was taken on the motion and it passed unanimously.
Staff Reports
The monthly treated water production summary was distributed to Board members
in their packets. There were no comments. The staff brought an artist's
rendition of the water treatment plant expansion. Mike Smith announced that
the City has applied for a preliminary hydro permit. Bill Carnahan added
that today staff received forms to fill out relative to that application.
The contract was awarded about two weeks ago to J. A. Jones for the expansion.
Mike Smith also announced that Water Board members should have received two
recently completed brochures; one on the Industrial Pretreatment Program and
a summary report on the Anheuser-Busch Wastewater Treatment Project. Water
Board members offered some complimentary remarks on the Utilities Annual
Report handed out at the last meeting.
Neil Grigg asked Bill Carnahan to report to the Board what he will be doing
in his new position at Riverside, California.
Mr. Carnahan explained what he would be doing, and also provided background
information about the Riverside area, its power and water situation etc.,
along with some personal comments about leaving his position here. He praised
the staffs of both the Light and Power and Water and Wastewater Utilities.
Both staffs have very dedicated, innovative people who have "made my job fun,"
he stressed. He hopes he will be moving into the same kind of a situation in
Riverside. "It was a real pleasure to work with the Water Board the past two
years. I considered it to be a valuable learning experience," he said. Mr.
Carnahan's last day here will be June 6. He will assume the position of
Utilities Director for Riverside, California on June 9th. Neil Grigg related
that Bill Carnahan, among all his other responsibilities, is the incoming
president of the American Public Power Association, representing some 2,000
locally owned power authorities in the country.
Neil Grigg moved that the Water Board recognize Bill Carnahan's professional
service and express the Board's sense of loss at no longer being able to work
with Mr. Carnahan. John Scott provided a second. President Evans declared
that_. the Board would cast a unanimous ballot for Dr. Grigg's resolution.
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May 16, 1986
Committee Reports
MaryLou Smith announced that the ByLaws, as the Committee is proposing they
be approved, will be in next month's packet. Following any comments, there
will, it is hoped, be a vote to approve them. The revised ByLaws will then
be in effect.
Other Business
Norm Evans prepared a list of ideas as a "thought list" titled, "Priority
Activities Suggested for Fort Collins Water Board and Water Utilities Staff."
He said he doesn't represent them as complete, but suggestions as to where we
should be going with regard to our water supplies to ensure that those we have
now are in a solid position. "We ought to be looking ahead to the supplies we
have had in mind as possibilities for a long time," he urged.
It seems that now we are forced to take a hard look at those options as
alternatives, he added. He tried to include those he knew about on the sheet
he prepared. He related that Dennis Bode had prepared a report for the Board
in 1980 that contains a good many of the alternatives which were considered
as potential alternatives at that time. Rat represents a good guideline for
us, and you may want to obtain a copy if you don't have one, he suggested.
John Scott called Nancy Gray of the Northern Colorado Water Conservancy
District Board a few weeks ago and asked her some questions about the Poudre
study the District is doing. He wanted to know why they were doing a
duplicate study that the Colorado Water and Power Authority, a state agency,
is doing. Ms. Gray said they are looking at two different things; the
District has options on a specific site that they want to analyze before the
Authority looks at the overall basin. Mr. Scott also wanted to find out who
is paying for the study thinking the City might be assessed for future costs
of the study. She assured him that the Company doing the study is paying for
it. A Fort Collins firm named ERDA was bought by a California wind energy
business called Zond; they are fronting the capital for the study. Their
interest is, if ERDA is selected to be involved in the project, the company
will be able to recoup their expenses. The City won't be responsible for any
of the cost of the study. Mr. Scott also asked her if the District is getting
into the power business. The District is just looking at the power aspects to
pay for the project, she explained.
Tom Sanders asked what is the status of the question of raising the height of
the dams at Horsetooth? Dennis Bode replied, as he recalls, they are still
debating about it but it seems the Conservancy District and the Bureau are
trying to work out a cost sharing arrangement on it.
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Water Board Minutes
May 16, 1986
Dr. Sanders contends that we should be pursuing this more -- "Isn't that a
loss of 10,000 acre-feet, he asked. Norm Evans said that Larry Simpson of
the District is handling that and Dr. Evans doesn't think it is necessary for
us to get into it. Moreover, Mr. Simpson is under a great deal of incentive
to take care of it because of the amount of water involved. The Federal
government is adament about not picking up the bill and he is trying to
initiate some kind of compromise.
Tom Sanders also wanted to know if staff is planning another visit to Joe
Wright Reservoir and the Michigan Ditch this year. Ben Alexander responded
that they would arrange it sometime in July or August in order to anticipate
better weather than we had last year, when we scheduled the tour in Septem
ber.
Since there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 4:45 p.m.
Water Bo rd Secretary
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