HomeMy WebLinkAboutWater Board - Minutes - 06/27/1986MINUTES
Water Board
June 27, 1986
Members Present
Norm Evans, President, Henry Caulfield, Vice President, Neil Grigg, MaryLou
Smith, John Scott, Tom Moore, Tom Sanders, Dave Stewart, Jo Boyd (alt.)
Staff Present
Rich Shannon, Mike Smith, Dennis Bode, Webb Jones, Andy Pineda, Curt
Miller, Ben Alexander
Members Absent
Stan Ponce, Ray Herrmann (alt.)
President Norm Evans opened the meeting. The following items were
discussed:
Minutes
The minutes of May 16, 1986 were approved as distributed.
Introduction of New Member
Josephine Boyd was introduced as the new Water Board alternate. It was
also announced that Dave Stewart was appointed to a second four-year term;
Stan Ponce was appointed to complete the unexpired term of Bill Elliott;
Ray Herrmann now becomes the first alternate.
Out -of -City Service Agreement
Board members received in their packets, a letter and map relating to this
request. Webb Jones explained that a Mr. C. A. Musgrave is developing a
golf course -- Link-N-Greens, Inc, on East Lincoln Ave., west of Lemay,
immediately north of the City's Wastewater Treatment Plant No. 1. Mr.
Musgrave asked that the City allow him to connect his club house and
maintenance building to two sewers that currently cross the property.
There has been a delay in processing the application because the Planning
Department was considering requiring that the property be annexed. If they
were to annex, it would no longer be considered out -of -city service. They
have since decided that annexation is not currently possible, so they are
going through the out -of -city service process at this time. Mr. Jones
related that the Utility doesn't have a particular problem with granting
two taps on those lines. It can be seen on the map that the lines surround
and bisect the proposed golf course; thus staff would recommend approval.
Water Board Minute,
June 27, 1986
Page 2
Rich Shannon asked why annexation was not possible. Mr. Jones replied that
he understands they are not eligible for annexation since the property does
not have the required 1/6 contiguity with,existing City boundaries. Also,
the developer resisted annexation.
Henry Caulfield contends that there should be some way of forcing this
property into the City, since it is so close to downtown. Mr. Jones
explained that the out -of -City service agreement, of course, indicates that
before he takes service he agrees to participate in annexation if he
becomes eligible.
Tom Sanders asked who was resisting annexation. Mr. Jones said the
developer, Mr. Musgrave, who is leasing the property from the owner whose
identity Mr. Jones does not know. It was asked, "shouldn't we be dealing
with the owner?" Mr. Jones replied yes; it will be the owner who will sign
the agreement. Of course the taps go with the property.
Mr. Caulfield believes that this is a P & Z Board responsibility, not the
Water Board's. Tom Sanders moved to table Water Board action until the
facts are clearer with regard to the owner of the property and the
annexation issue. After further discussion, Dr. Sanders withdrew his
motion.
Henry Caulfield moved that the Water Board approve the request contingent
upon the owner not resisting annexation and that the City deal with the
owner on the agreement for taps, not just the leasee. Rich Shannon offered
an ammendment that staff be asked once again to find out for certain if
there is no way that annexation could take place. Tom Moore seconded the
motion. It carried unanimously.
Water Issues Committee Report
Norm Evans reminded the Board that a committee was appointed to help
interface for the Board with the staff, the Council and others concerned
with water supplies in the basin. Neil Grigg was appointed chairman with
Tom Moore and Dave Stewart as committee members.
Neil Grigg reported that the committee has been very active and, in fact,
has met six times since the last Water Board meeting. At those meetings
they have delt with two sets of issues: the first was the proposal of WSSC
to increase the number of shares of the Ditch Co. by 300 and to trade the
City 84 of those shares for an equivalent amount of water in the Southside
Ditches. The entire Board, with the exception of two members who were out
of town, met on this and gave their approval of the plan. The City Council
met on June 17 and approved it by emergency ordinance. The second issue
the committee deliberated was the possibility of making an offer to Greeley
for some of their high mountain reservoirs. Briefly, Greeley has asked
Thornton if they would like to make an offer on those 5 reservoirs.
Thornton came back with an offer of $6.2 million which includes $5.2
million in cash plus $1 million worth of water rights in the Thompson
system. The Water Board again met to discuss that on June 19. Neil Grigg
and the staff prepared a memo with recommendations to the City Council.
Water Board Minufes •
June 27, 1986
Page 3
Board members were sent copies of that memo. After considerable debate at
the special meeting, the Board reached a general consensus on the following
points:
1. From a strictly business point of view, the Water Board does not
advocate the full acquisition of all five reservoirs that Greeley desires
to sell. At the $6.2 million price, and an estimated net yield of 50% of
the capacity, the cost would be about $1500 per acre foot. In addition,
several of the reservoirs are in need of substantial repair work. With
repair costs and uncertain future costs for operation and maintenance, the
cost may be 2 to 3 times higher than the current prices developers are
paying to satisify their water right requirements. The Board believes this
cost is unattractive to Fort Collins as compared with other options.
2. The Water Board would not oppose a Council decision to make an offer to
Greeley based on an overall water planning strategy for this region.
3. If any offer is made, the Water Board would favor an offer on Barnes
Meadow Reservoir, and possibly Peterson Reservoir, perhaps working with the
Water Supply and Storage Company. Despite the relatively high price,
acquisition of these reservoirs may provide a window of opportunity that
may improve the City's working relationship with WSSC and could provide
additional flexibility in the future management of water for the City.
4. The Water Board advocates a planning/acquisition mode that will
preserve supplies in this region at reasonable costs. The City should work
aggresssively and cooperatively with its neighboring cities, irrigation
companies and water districts to establish a regional approach to water
supply planning and management.
On June 20, Neil Grigg, Mike Smith and Dennis Bode met with WSSC
representatives. Dr. Grigg related that there hasn't been an indication
that we should move ahead on this proposal at this point. It seems to
require more study. He has had a discussion about the proposal with Mr.
Farr of the Greeley Water Board as well as a conversation with a member of
the Loveland Water Board. It appears that what we "are working up to," is
the need to meet with these other water boards and talk about some regional
cooperation in planning rather than any specifics right now.
Dr. Grigg suggested a general area where the Water Board could take some
action and make some recommendations. There is a general need for the
Board to undertake planning -- to have a process that can be followed;
perhaps including some joint meetings with other water boards and other
appropriate people in the area. Mike Smith suggested that the Water Board
needs to work on a policy -- "Are we going to actively pursue water deals
or are we going to operate somewhere in between that and what we are doing
now?" He added that Council will probably be looking for recommendations
or direction from the Board on what the Board proposes to do.
Henry Caulfield reminded Mr. Smith that he was going to report on
Thornton's reaction to the increase in the WSSC shares. Mr. Smith
understands that Thornton was angry about the transaction, although they
Water Board Minutt
June 27, 1986
Page 4
indicated to the media that it was "okay." Mr. Smith thinks that they
intend to take some appropriate action. He also understands that they want
to meet with people from Northern Colorado to try to pursue some long range
joint plans. Norm Evans responded that this is the sensible direction for
all of us, and that is the direction in which the water leaders are moving.
Henry Caulfield commented that if it were just Thornton it would be one
thing, but what would happen is we would essentially be inviting the whole
Denver area as well.
Mr. Caulfield asked why Greeley is interested in selling their reservoirs.
Mike Smith answered that they want to concentrate on developing a supply
system on the Thompson River. They have three water treatment plants-- one
of them at Bellvue and two at Boyd Lake. They have a transmission line
problem between the Bellvue plant and Greeley. They have more treatment
capacity than they have transmission line. It would cost several million
dollars to fix the transmission line, so they feel they need to shift •some
of their emphasis to the Thompson system. They have too much water in the
Poudre system so they are contemplating disposing of some of that and
buying more in the Thompson system. The Thornton offer included $1 million
in water rights that are in the Greeley/Loveland system which Greeley
wants, plus $5.2 million which they could use to purchase more water in the
Thompson system.
Mr. Smith stated further that some of the reservoirs they are offering are
not in very good shape which means costly repairs. President Evans added
that Greeley has been trying to trade off some of these reservoirs to Fort
Collins for about 15 years. In 1977, the two Cities conducted an appraisal
of those reservoirs as well as the Rockwell site etc. The Greeley/Fort
Collins joint ownership of the Rockwell Ranch and then the Greeley sites
for the other reservoirs are all a lot of pieces in the forest. The Forest
Service "wanted to get us all together and trade us some land so it could
consolidate the Greeley/Fort Collins land into one piece and free that
fragmentation." In connection with the Forest Service proposition, we had
a very good appraisal made of the property values. At that time the 5
reservoirs were valued by the appraiser as roughly $4.4 million. The last
time Fort Collins made Greeley a somewhat informal offer was on the Barnes
Meadow Reservoir. Evidently they didn't think it was a good enough offer.
Neil Grigg pointed out that the Thornton offer, if you include the repairs,
makes it about a $10 million offer. Norm Evans emphasized that Greeley
would also find the irrigation water part of it enormously attractive.
Mr. Caulfield asked if this sale would upset the North Poudre exchanges.
Mr. Smith answered that it is hard to say. Dennis Bode clarified that
Greeley has released water from their reservoirs in the late summer and
fall and exchanged it with North Poudre for CBT water.
Mary Lou Smith was interested in having further information about Neil
Grigg's conversation with Mr. Farr from Greeley. Did Dr. Grigg pick up any
clues of Greeley's antagonism towards Fort Collins? Dr. Grigg was able to
detect somewhat of a barrier between the two cities. When he called Mr.
Farr, he said he hoped that Greeley would take the time to talk with Fort
Water Board Mines •
June 27, 1986
Page 5
Collins before they went ahead with the sale. Mr. Farr was very polite and
related that a few years ago, Fort Collins had a chance to look at the
reservoirs and didn't seem to be particularly interested. Their offer from
Thornton was very nice, he said, and was equivalent to a $10 million deal.
Mr. Farr talked about some of the things Mike Smith had pointed out about
the advantages of the sale. He also said that Thornton needed some water
and they wanted to work with them to get it. He didn't indicate any
willingness to work with Fort Collins rather than Thornton. However, when
they concluded their conservation, he conveyed a willingness for the Fort
Collins and Greeley Water Boards to get together. He didn't emphasize any
antagonism or separation, but one could sense the aftermath of the offer
which Fort Collins rejected in the late 1970's.
Tom Sanders suggested, after seeing the memo by Neil Grigg, that the Water
Board should have their own stationery so that there will be no doubt who
the communication is from. He also proposed that Mike Smith and Norm Evans
set up a meeting of the Fort Collins and Greeley Water Boards -- not staff,
just the boards. He thinks the boards should sit down and talk about the
issues facing them and find out first hand, not by innuendo.
His third point related to the Greeley Bellvue Treatment Plant. If they
are putting emphasis on the Big T system, this may be an opportunity for us
to get a physical plant at a reasonable cost that may only be operated in
the summer time, for example. He suggested that the staff look into the
feasibility of doing this.
Neil Grigg concurred with Tom Sander's suggestions. He referred to the
Regional Report which all Board members received a few weeks ago. In the
report, they make the point, that there is abundant treatment capacity
around. If we could get together and study it and evaluate it, we night
see some things we could accomplish that would be to everyone's benefit, he
advised. Norm Evans added that there is a regional group that has been
meeting regularly for about a year and a half. The group made a
recommendation to the Councils of the cities represented. Mike Smith
revealed that all the entities but Greeley have taken action on the
recommendation.
Henry Caulfield noted that when the Future of Water in Northern Colorado
meeting was held on May 20, Greeley was represented by its water manager
only, which could imply some problem. Dr. Evans added that for so many
years Greeley and Fort Collins have cooperated so well, it is a shame if
that level of cooperation were to break down.
Henry Caulfield asked to return to the subject of the control of stock in
the WSSC. Is there any way we can tell how much more ownership has to be in
"responsible" hands in order to be safe with majority control of WSSC? In
our perspective to help WSSC, it seems that we need to know something about
that question, he urged. Mr. Caulfield was prepared to make a proposal
that could help in that regard. Tom Moore related that Thornton does not
now own a majority of the shares. They have about 280 shares, Fort Collins
has 107 shares.
Water Board Minuts
June 27, 1986
Page 6
Mr. Caulfield went on to state his proposal. He said that Anheuser-Busch's
first installation is going to be 4280 acre feet of water. At one time
they were contemplating two more additions. "Let's say they were an equal
size of 4280 each which would be 8,400 acre feet of water for ultimate
expansion. If we could negotiate with A-B in terms of their own
contingency plans as well as own plans for their future expansion, we could
make a deal where we would acquire it and rent it like we do in our
ordinary rental procedures. Let's say we would pay the assessment costs.
Assuming they didn't go through with this expansion, they would give us
first right of refusal of purchase for those shares from them if they ever
walked away from those two expansions. That way we would avoid the Utility
getting into debt." Mr. Caulfield realizes that he does not know what the
current talk is with A-B on their future, and perhaps there are some
political ramifications in terms of even getting out front on such a
matter, he admitted.
Henry Caulfield contends that control of the entire WSSC system is far more
important than the Greeley reservoirs. Is seems to him that the A-B deal
is worth looking into. Mike Smith said staff could approach A-B about Mr.
Caulfield's proposal.
Mr. Caulfield commented that given the Thornton issue the NCWCD probably
wouldn't restrict the amount of CBT water the City could own ahead of our
demand. John Scott related that he had recently spoken with Larry Simpson
and he gave the impression he was going to look at the amount of surplus
again. Mr. Scott doesn't know whether that means future demand, 50 years
from now, or what. Mr. Caulfield countered that "they can't hold that
restriction and expect us to help in this fight." Mike Smith said the City
has also pursued this question with respect to the Great Western Sugar
Company; they had 2400 acre feet of water available after they declared
bankruptcy. Representatives from NCWCD told staff that they would probably
not oppose the City's acquiring that water because it was industrial use to
start with. Mr. Caulfield asked what is happening with that. Mr. Smith
responded that there is a legal firm in Boulder handling the disposition of
it. What happens is they take offers for it and the Court settles on
those. The City hasn't agreed to buy it; only to pursue it.
Marylou Smith asked who else is going after it. Mr. Smith said he doesn't
know. Ms. Smith also asked why this is particularly attractive. Mr. Smith
said first of all, there is not that much water on the market and second it
was used for industrial purposes, so the District may look favorably on
transferring it to Fort Collins, and third, the price may be fairly
reasonable.
Henry Caulfield added, "so Thornton wouldn't be a competitor." John Scott
pointed out, "if they went after the state law they could." Tom Moore
related that Monfort has purchased 300 shares of the Great Western water.
"Why don't we go after the remainder of it," Tom Sanders urged. Mike Smith
responded that the staff has been asked to look into it. The next action
would require a firm recommendation to buy it and take it to Council.
Water Board Mines •
June 27, 1986
Page 7
Neil Grigg advised that we need to look together as a region what our needs
are going to be for the future. If there is more than enough water, we can
feel comfortable about turning some over to Thornton; if there is not
enough, we need to know about it --then we can enter into joint ventures to
"nail down" the water we need. Until we start planning and begin thinking
about joint interests, we are not going to be able to answer that question
because we'll all be looking at individual interests. Our next step is
working with the ditch companies starting with WSSC, but with others too.
We need to look at service areas, where we want to go and how much water is
going to be needed. It will then be clear who ought to acquire water and
what our relationships might be.
Henry Caulfield said he has no problem with that but he reiterated that
keeping control of WSSC is the immediate urgent problem, until we are
assured by Ward Fischer or Harvey Johnson that there is no longer a need
for concern.
Henry Caulfield moved that the staff investigate within the City Council,
City staff, the Water Board sub -committee, as well as whatever liaison the
City has with A-B, whether there is a possibility to make a deal with them
regarding the water they contemplate using for further expansion. He also
stressed that the staff talk with Ward Fischer about the question of how
desirable it is that we move ahead on this for the purpose of helping to
keep the majority control in "responsible" hands. John Scott seconded Mr.
Caulfield's motion.
Tom Moore abstained due to his close ties with WSSC. The remainder of the
members voted in favor of the motion.
Henry Caulfield brought up the point that the Bylaws provide that the city
manager is an ex-officio member of the Water Board with a right to vote.
Traditionally, the city manager has not attended Water Board meetings.
Considering the current reorganization, Mr. Caulfield thinks staff should
learn how this will be handled in the future.
John Scott returned to the question of a meeting with the Greeley Water
Board. He asked Tom Sanders to put his proposal in the form of a motion.
Dr. Sanders moved that the staff and the Water Board President arrange a
meeting of the Water Boards of Greeley and Fort Collins on or before the
next Water Board meeting.
Neil Grigg considers it important to have an organized mechanism to
follow-up the regional effort including Loveland, the Districts and Windsor
too. Norm Evans mentioned that the Loveland Water Board chairman indicated
that she was anxious to have her Board meet with ours also. Dr. Sanders
thinks that, at this time, we need to concentrate on Greeley.
Norm Evans reminded the Board that we already have the regional
coordinating group that is well organized to fulfill the function to which
Dr. Grigg referred. Perhaps that could be the mechanism that is needed.
Neil Grigg asked if it is an active group. Mike Smith replied, "active but
waiting for Greeley to respond." Dr. Grigg suggested that at the joint
Water Board Minute
June 27, 1986
Page 8
meeting of the Boards could we formally ask Greeley to be a part of that
regional mechanism?
Henry Caulfield believes that we should confine the meeting to Greeley and
let others know that this will be a special bi-lateral meeting. After that
we will proceed to something more regional.
Neil Grigg thinks what needs to be added to the effort is the consideration
of the exchange of raw water and bringing the agricultural groups into the
picture. There are many questions here that need active play and
consideration, he stressed. Dr. Evans agreed with Dr. Grigg's point and
reiterated that the regional group could be at least a nucleus to begin
with.
MaryLou Smith said, "we can meet, but what we are waiting for is to see if
Greeley wants to participate." At this time it was pointed out that there
was not a second to Dr. Sander's motion. Neil Grigg provided a second.
Marylou Smith questioned what the agenda would be for such a meeting. She
doesn't think a strictly social get together would accomplish much. The
Board seemed to agree that a less formal gathering, perhaps with a dinner,
would be more effective to allow a genuine exchange of ideas, but that some
specific topics should be addressed. It was also suggested that the
meeting be held on neutral territory, such as in Windsor or Loveland. The
vote was taken and the motion passed unanimously.
Neil Grigg is convinced that the broader question is one we are going to
have to deal with. At the Marriott meeting, it was suggested that there
would be a follow-up meeting. We are going to have to declare that we are
not going to have another meeting or eventually plan for it. He asked if
staff has sent meeting notes to the participants. Mr. Smith replied that
staff is preparing to send a memo along with the notes which asks the
participants to review the possible solutions that emerged from the May 20
meeting, and comment on those; let staff know what kind of working group
they think might be able to best organize, study, or develop the
appropriate solution; should we hold another large meeting to discuss this
issue or attempt to establish a smaller working group; let staff know what
kind of involvement their organization desires. Mr. Smith added that
perhaps a meeting might be planned for July or August.
Dr. Grigg suggested that rather than that soon, perhaps fall would be
preferable. He stated further that what needs to be accomplished is the
strategy planning where we look at the total raw water needs for the area.
It is the perception in the Denver area that there is plenty of water up
here. If this isn't true, we must be prepared to say so, and to make the
move to protect what we have.
Dr. Evans related that there have been two Poudre Basin studies done.
Essentially, what they have done is assess the supplies and demands. He
wonders if we don't already have information that should provide most of
the information Dr. Grigg is proposing that we need. Tom Moore referred to
the newsletter the Board received which states that the latest study should
be available in August. Dennis Bode agreed that there is an abundance of
Water Board Mines •
June 27, 1986
Page 9
information available. Part of the problem is that demands can change and
there are external demands now, and since the agricultural demands are the
major part of it, a lot depends on what happens to the agricultural lands.
Is the water that is removed from ag. use going to municipalities and
perhaps a change in the market? The one South Platte Basin study concludes
that there is approximately 1.8 million acre feet per year available in the
basin as a whole. "If you get into the ag. water, yes, there is plenty of
water in the basin to serve the Denver area needs." It's much more complex
than that in terms of who gets the water, Mr. Bode stressed.
Due to that complexity, Neil Grigg said he is tempted to suggest that a
study is needed -- it doesn't appear that it would be the usual staff study
of the water facilities, but a broader study of the linkage between water
and economic development in Northern Colorado. It seems that this kind of
study would be appropriate for CSU. He would like to see the Water Board
request such a study, because without one, we're almost at a loss to really
know how far to go to protect our water, he concluded.
Dennis Bode pointed out that part of the Poudre Basin study is economic. A
separate consulting firm did the economic part. Neil Grigg commented that
he thinks we need something that is more locally directed.
Norm Evans said that Dr. Grigg's suggestion would be noted and kept on tap
until the results of the Poudre study are available. He went on to say
that there is no doubt that our first priority should be to protect the
waters that we now own, and that we have reasonable expectation of
acquiring, and that may involve cooperative actions with others both near
and far. It will eventually involve the coordinated management of the
whole South Platte River Basin. "The long range target is clear enough for
us and others in the South Platte Basin," he added.
Henry Caulfield clarified the direction of the Board. He said it seems
that the Board is proceeding in three proposed levels of discussion: first
is our meeting with Greeley; second, discussion at the professional level
that will be involved with the regional group of which Mike Smith and Norm
Evans are members; and the third level will be the large meeting as a
follow-up to the meeting on May 20.
MaryLou Smith shared some helpful information about public relations which
she learned at a recent AWWA conference. One of the points she stressed
was that if you anticipate a time when the public is going to be concerned
about what you are up to, one of the wisest preparations you can make is to
hold a series of briefings ahead of time. She proposed that staff think
about the possibility of holding some briefings at which the media would be
invited, giving the public, through the media, a general idea of what our
water supply situation is. She thinks the public is very confused about
this whole Thornton issue and whether we have enough water. The public has
received fragmented information over the past few years about the drought
study, the rate study, and the proposed metering program. "We don't seem
to present them this information in the form in which we would like them to
have it. For example give them the information about our water supply,
telling them, here are our problems and here are the ways we intend to work
Water Board Minute
June 27, 1986
Page 10
them out." She pointed out two documents that could form the basis of
those briefings; one is a memo put together March 20 on the City's Water
and Wastewater system in terms for the lay person. The other document
dated April 29, on Water Supply History would also be an excellent source
for a briefing. In conclusion, she emphasized that if you lay the ground
work before things "get in an uproar," you will be rewarded later when
problems arise.
Norm Evans concurred with Ms. Smith's ideas of informing the public. We
all recognize the great confusion that has occurred in recent months due to
the Thornton issue, he said. Ms. Smith also made the point that there are
a substantial number of newcomers to town and thus, the confusion becomes
even more pronounced when a major issue emerges. Rich Shannon commented,
"we could become more aggressive with the press if that is your desire."
Rich Shannon directed the Board to think further about the meeting with
Greeley. He thinks the subject was left with unclear expectations. Is it a
general meeting from which we leave saying yes, we are interested in
meeting regularly to talk about regional concerns? Or is it a meeting where
we expect to have a well orchestrated set of questions where the staffs
have agreed on the agenda in advance and you are actually trying to get
some business accomplished, or are you trying to agree to do business in
the future? As you think through that, is there an advantage to having a
sub -committee of each group meet rather than the full boards.?
Norm Evan's "gut feeling" may not match what Tom Sanders had in mind;
namely, that we would have an informal meeting. Maybe that is impractical,
he said; perhaps you can't do that under today's circumstances.
Henry Caulfield suggested a compromise. We could have a formal meeting,
then, the Boards could have dinner together which would provide informal
contact.
Neil Grigg proposed that behind our discussion are two goals for the
meeting with the two water boards. Our second goal would be to have them
agree to join the regional group. Leading up to that should be an
expression of interest on our part for working together with some specific
suggestions of things that might be candidates for that. What appears to
be indicated is a preliminary discussion of staffs of the two cities before
the boards meet, with a joint presentation by the staffs.
Tom Sanders objected to using the boards to get Greeley to join the
regional group. He just wanted to meet to hear what they are thinking, not
to prod them to do anything. Dave Stewart said the other problem is they
will be put on the defensive right away. We need to say we have a regional
problem. How are we going to work together to solve it?
Rich Shannon commented that there is nothing wrong with having a casual
conversation at dinner. You come back with some sense of what their
sentiment is, and maybe that is enough for the first meeting. He added, in
line with what Neil Grigg proposed, staff could give the Board a position
paper prior to the dinner on the types of items you might want to discuss.
Water Board Mies •
June 27, 1986
Page 11
MaryLou Smith asked Mr. Shannon if the City has a public information
person. He replied that there isn't one now, but the intent is to recruit a
public information officer soon.
Neil Grigg concluded that the ball is in the staff's and Norm Evans' hands
to get the Greeley meeting organized. There are several parallel
activities going on. He and his committee will continue to work with staff
in the development of those. He stressed that he doesn't think his
committee can go much further without a way to see the integrated picture.
For example, with the case of A-B; that would be a piece of it. Mike Smith
suggested that staff arrange for the committee to meet with North Poudre.
North Poudre is interested in working on some arrangements and developing
some relationships, he said.
Neil Grigg announced that Stan Ponce expressed an interest in being a part
of the committee since he works on water rights. Norm Evans thereby
appointed Stan Ponce as a member of the Water Issues Committee.
Mike Smith commented that his sense of the problem with Greeley is the city
council not the water board. Neil Grigg suggested after the informal
meeting which could be considered the first round, that a joint staff
presentation could be beneficial in identifying what the advantages are
going to be, and we could talk to their board about those. They, in turn,
can inform their council in Greeley of the advantages. If it turns out
there aren't any advantages, "we might as well forget about it now," he
contends. "We're not going to get very far talking about cooperation for
the sake of cooperation."
Staff Reports
Treated Water Production Summary
Dennis Bode reported that May water use was running about 30% above the
average projected use. We have also continued to have very high days in
June, he said. There were 8 or 9 days that have been around 40 MGD, so the
peak demands have been quite high because of the dry weather. That use has
been on days that have not been extremely hot and with a cloud cover, so it
is anticipated that if we get clear sunny days with high temperatures, the
peaks may reach 45-50 MGD.
Tom Sanders asked if the ET ratings are being printed in the newspaper.
The ET for a two and three day period is printed each day in the Coloradoan
in the weather section, and is announced several times each day on KCOL.
Henry Caulfield asked if much water has been leased this year. Mr. Bode
replied that they have leased all the WSSC water and leased to all those
who have made requests which haven't been many so far -- not too much North
Poudre water. Most of the demand has been for WSSC water. They have
leased some CBT water. Mr. Caulfield also asked why the Water Board has
not voted on changing the in -lieu -of rate for months. Mike Smith responded
that staff is somewhat concerned about where it is going to go. It is
currently at $1,000. He is not certain they would want to lower it. Mr.
Caulfield said, we must be collecting rights rather than money from the
Water Board Minute.
June 27, 1986
Page 12
developers; very little money is coming in. Dennis Bode confirmed that
little money is being collected. Mr. Smith said that something we may want
to consider at some point is if we want to take a more pro -active approach
in purchasing water and perhaps changing raw water requirements to obtain
more cash.
Mr. Caulfield suggested that the Board discuss openly and candidly whether
or not we should be buying water. Members do have some fundamental
differences related to buying water and the reasons for buying it. Mike
Smith thinks the sub -committee has the intention of coming up with some
strategies that the Water Board can look at for these changing times. The
City's policy now is to collect water from developers as they come in.
Perhaps we need to look at that, as a part of the whole picture.
Tom Sanders contends that we may need to go into debt to buy water in the
future.
Committee Reports
The bylaws committee requested that if members have suggestions for changes
in the bylaws, to please get them to Molly Nortier before the next meeting.
Other Business
Jim O'Brien said he is discouraged that the Board tabled the proposed plan
for phased metering until September. He doesn't see the emphasis of
getting a better handle on regional management and planning as precluding
our direction of going to City Council with our recommendation for the
metering plan.
Rich Shannon reiterated as Henry Caulfield pointed out that we are working
on three levels of an issue here. Somewhere in our documentation should be
a little more about the logic the Water Board has used as we are going from
step to step. He suggested a staff memo that follows these three issues as
questions:
1. Determine the extent to which WSSC believes the City can be helpful.
Do they want us helping them? Are we telling them how we can help them or
are we waiting for them to say "here is another piece?" Are we the lead or
the support role there? Henry Caulfield said it depends on what our
information is from them. Neil Grigg added that he thinks we are just
developing a relationship with them. We do need to answer that question,
he agreed.
2. Are we moving into an aggressive water acquisition mode? Lay out the
pros and cons. Determine what the negatives are and what might be
beneficial. We shouldn't assume that everyone wants us to be in an
aggressive acquisition mode.
3. If we are in an aggressive mode, why do we think that does or doesn't
fit in with the regional cooperation study we have discussed? From there
come some specifics. What does that mean for WSSC?
Water Board Mines •
June 27, 1986
Page 13
Neil Grigg believes that question 2 was answered in point 4 of the memo to
the City Council that: "The Water Board advocates a planning/acquisition
mode that will preserve supplies in this region at reasonable costs. The
City should work aggressively while cooperating with its neighboring
cities, irrigation companies and water districts to establish a regional
approach to water supply planning and management."
Norm Evans agreed with Mr. Shannon's points about what the Water Board
should focus on.
Jim O'Brien wanted to debate the aggressive acquisition mode. He is
disturbed that the focus is switching entirely because of the Thornton
situation. Suddenly we adopted the acquisition mode whereas before, we came
out with a drought study that showed we don't need a lot of water for the
near future, and furthermore, we were coming up with a water metering
program that was going to delay treatment plant expansion etc. He is in
favor of maintaining the Board's long term foresight in planning for water
needs in the future, but he objects to seeing the focus changing.
Henry Caulfield believes that the Board needs to discuss and debate this
issue but not at 5:10 shortly before adjournment. There are real
differences on the Board that need to be explored. That requires some
time.
Rich Shannon said he is reluctant to research various ways of acquiring
water unless there is concurrence by the Board. Neil Grigg observed that
if you took a poll as to whether the Board was interested enough to do the
research, there would be a lot of support, but when you "got down to the
specific actions," these would vary, he said.
John Scott contends that the City should not be in the posture of acquiring
all of Northern Colorado's water.
Rich Shannon restated, "Is it the Board's interest to discuss the question
at the next meeting of whether we should be or not be in an aggressive
acquisition posture; with various options being addressed under that and
how these integrate or depart from the regional study?"
Jim O'Brien agreed that it should be put on the agenda, but along with that
we need to review our demand status, he urged.
Jo Boyd offered a possible solution to avoid an argumentative meeting on
this issue. She believes that Dr. Grigg's summary contains a statement that
will cut the argument very short."The Water Board advocates a planning
acquisition mode that will preserve supplies in this region at reasonable
cost." Reasonable costs is the key phrase. If everyone concurred with
that instead of floating bonds for "umpteen" million dollars, the whole
point of being aggressive is "shot down" because costs,' as people have
stated today, are getting to the point where they may no longer be
considered reasonable very shortly. "Thus, we can say we are aggressive,
but if we don't have the money, we have wasted a lot of people's time." Dr.
Sanders argued that in the past the Board hasn't been buying the water
Water Board MinutE
June 27, 1986
Page 14
"even at reasonable cost." He went on to say that the idea is growth or no
growth and whether or not you want to control the water in Northern
Colorado, and whether you want to control you own destiny in Northern
Colorado -- It's not just reasonable costs!
"Then you have a great basis for a long debate," Ms. Boyd countered,
because you said Northern Colorado and then you said your own destiny.
They are both quite different; controlling the entire northern part of the
state may be a politician's ambition. Dr. Sanders interjected,
"Controlling Fort Collins is what I want."
Norm Evans concluded that Rich Shannon has put our focus on some direction
that we should be pursuing. Although we may not have the agenda for the
next meeting completely crystalized, we at least have a focus.
Neil Grigg commented, "that may be the agenda for a retreat." Others
agreed.
MaryLou Smith asked if we still plan to have Ward Fischer attend one of our
meetings to get his perspective and insights on some of these issues. Dave
Stewart suggested that the Board do that as part of a retreat -- it should
be an all day session, he stressed. The Board seemed to agree that a
retreat would be a good idea.
Since there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 5:22 p.m.
Water Board Secretary
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