HomeMy WebLinkAboutWater Board - Minutes - 09/18/198711111L4d#9
Water Board
September 18, 1987
Members
Norm Evans, President, John Scott, Marylou Smith, Tom Moore, Dave Stewart,
Tom Sanders, Jim Kuiken (alt.)
Staff
Rich Shannon, Mike Smith, Dennis Bode, Andy Pineda, Ben Alexander, Curt
Miller, Paul Eckman, Assistant City Attorney
Guests
Ron Hellbusch, Director Public Works/Utilities, Westminster, Colorado
Darell Zimbleman, Assistant Manager, Northern Colorado Water Conservancy
District
John Bigham, Agency Coordinator, NCWCD
Gary Kimsey, Representative from Preserve Our Poudre
Members Absent
Henry Caulfield, Vice President, Neil Grigg, Jo Boyd, Ray Herrmann, Chester
Watson (alt.)
President Evans opened the meeting. The following items were discussed:
Minutes
The discussion of the minutes was moved to the end of the agenda.
Update. Northern Colorado Water Conservancy District
President Evans welcomed Darell Zimbleman and John Bigham from the NCWCD.
Mr. Zimbleman announced that the District is celebrating its 50th anniver-
sary. He brought commemorative anniversary publications for Water Board and
staff members.
He also announced that on Wednesday, Sept. 16 the Bureau and District are
beginning negotiations for the District to take over the remainder of the CBT
project. That announcement was made to the employees of both agencies. As a
result, the District staff will probably increase by about 50 people to pri-
marily operate those power plants from the east portal down to and including
flatiron. "We see this as just a logical transition process that was started
a couple of years ago when the west slope facilities were transferred to us,"
he explained. This is consistent with other Bureau projects that are trans-
ferred to local operators. Dr. Evans interjected a comment that "they
haven't done that very much. I don't know how many, but there are not very
many projects that have been transferred. I know that the Bureau has felt a
responsibility for 0&M theoretically until the contracting district is capa-
ble of doing it themselves, but they don't turn very many over, so I think
this is a real credit to the Northern District!"
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 2
Mr. Zimbleman went on to say that the negotiations are just beginning. Larry
Simpson has written letters to all the preferred power customers including
Fort Collins and PRPA, stating that it is the District's intention to operate
the power part of the project and to do it economically and efficiently. "In
no way will what we are doing affect the preferred customer." All the power
will go to WAPA and it is part of the post 89 contract allotment. In the
long run, hopefully, delivery will be improved because the District can
coordinate directly with WAPA on the scheduling of the power.
Mike Smith asked if the Bureau employees will become District employees. Mr.
Zimbleman replied yes, there is a group of employees, particularly the power
plant operators, the Loveland Control Center Operators, some plant mechanics,
some electricians, some of the water schedulers, and some of the electrical
engineers who are working on plant modernization and rehabilitation. "It is
the District's hope that we can convince those people to work for us. The
remainder of the Bureau employees we will offer jobs to the degree that they
fit with our needs." It is not in the District's or the Bureau's interest
for us to hire people we don't have need for. One of the reasons we are try-
ing to consolidate is to reduce some duplication.
Mr. Zimbleman said that Representative Norton called him about working out a
plan for the City's instream flow requests. He asked how far the effort has
gone. Mr. Zimbleman will make an effort next week to determine the progress
on that. "When there is something worth talking about, we will meet with
you," he said. Dr. Evans asked if a plan is being developed. Mr. Zimbleman
responded that it would be more concerned with ideas that we can explore.
Other agricultural diverters downstream would also like to be involved, he
added.
Dr. Evans referred to the minutes of the last District meeting which con-
tained an item concerning A-B transfers of water. What's the situation?
Mr. Zimbleman said the District Board approved the transfer and the applica-
tion for transfer was from A-B to Fort Collins. It was approved with the un-
derstanding that it was consistent with the other agreement reached earlier
among PRPA the City and Anheuser-Busch. Mike Smith announced that the City
of Fort Collins now has all of the A— B water. They turned over 1111 units of
CBT water, 490 shares of North Poudre stock, and 5 shares of Water Supply and
Storage Co. That meets all of their raw water requirements.
Rich Shannon noticed while going through the District budget, that there was
about $276,000 identified for the Poudre Project. Mr. Zimbleman said this
was designated primarily for environmental work to satisfy the requirements
of the FERC license and some hydrologic modeling, so as we go forward, we
will know what the benefits and uses of that project are. "You mentioned
that is for the FERC permit," Mr. Shannon stated. "Is that still going under
the assumption that we are in the pump storage arena?" Mr. Zimbleman said
it is more how the Poudre Project is configured and what all the elements
are, but the environmental impact in terms of terrestrial biology, aquatic
biology, archeology really doesn't make much difference whether there is a
pump storage component or not. The area of impact is virtually identical.
- ." •
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 3
"As a matter of fact, our contract with the Power Authority, and they are
claiming part of those environmental studies, precludes us working much at
all with the pump storage part of it."
Dr. Evans congratulated the District on their 50th anniversary. "We applaud
that along with everyone else." He noted, as an historic fact, that ini-
tially Fort Collins said they didn't need CBT water because they had the
water from the Poudre River. Events have proved that to be incorrect and we
are delighted to have the District and CBT water available, he added.
Westminster Water Acquisition Plans
Chairman Evans introduced Ron Hellbusch, the Director of Public
Works/Utilities for the City of Westminster. Mr. Hellbusch thanked the Water
Board for allowing him the time to make a presentation. He and Mike Smith
met in August and at that time, he advised Mr. Smith that it was Westmin-
ster's desire to share their ideas for water acquisition with the communities
north of Denver. While their plan is quite conceptual at this point, it is
their intent to be very open with Fort Collins and others. Westminster
representatives have met a number of times with Larry Simpson and Darell
Zimbleman of the NCWCD on their overall needs and about some ideas they have
formulated. Today he will share what they have in mind and what stage they
are in regarding this effort. At this point Mr. Hellbusch distributed copies
of an outline/memo titled, "City of Westminster's Concept for Developing
Supplemental Water Supply From Windy Gap Project." (A copy is attached.)
Mr. Hellbusch began by saying that Westminster is approaching 70,000 in pop-
ulation. Since the 1960's they have had their own independent water supply
when the City formed an agreement with the Farmers Reservoir & Irrigation Co.
for enlargement of Standley Lake. This provided the City with storage.
Water rights were acquired through the years in the system as well as outside
the system. The primary supply in addition to the Farmer's stock in Standley
is Farmer's Highline Canal Church Ditch. They do have a treated water con-
tract with Thornton which came about as an exchange for other water rights
purchased by the City of Westminster. They are also part of the Metro -Denver
Providers Program and have an No interest and look to that source to provide
about 6,000 acre feet. They are in the Williams Fork agreement which would
yield about 1,000 a.f. based on current estimates. There are other options
they are pursuing: increasing storage capacity of Standley Lake is one, and
they continue to buy water rights in that area. But, as they grow, they know
they are going to need additional supplies. Westminster is somewhat unique
in that the area inside the current city boundaries is essentially only about
half developed. If they don't annex any more land at anytime in the future,
they could nearly double the population just by in -fill. "It puts an obliga-
tion on our part to make sure that Utility facilities are there and certainly
water rights," Mr. Hellbusch stressed.
One idea that Westminster came up with which was discussed with Mr. Simpson
and Mr. Zimbleman and others at the District and of course Boulder and Long-
mont, was the possibility of acquiring, in some fashion, first use or second
use of water in the Windy Gap Project. "I want to say from the outset that
the discussions with Boulder and Longmont, although they have been going on
for sometime, are somewhat conceptual in nature." Basically what is involved
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 4
at this point is a lot of study, consideration and evaluations. He assured
the Board that there are no commitments whatsoever by those two cities, but
they didn't have any objections to discussing it, and updating Fort Collins
and others. "Our purpose is to be open about it so you know actually and
factually when you hear and read about Westminster's view north, that it is,
we think honorable and hopefully has some mutual benefits."
Westminster is talking with Longmont and Boulder regarding exchange use of
their Windy Gap or direct use. Boulder and Longmont have some considerations
they are working through --charter constraints perhaps on the sale of water; a
vote of the people; council actions, that kind of thing. Westminster has
done some initial studies jointly with those two cities, and the studies have
been shared with the Northern District. There needs to be an integration of
the northern water supply water rights as well as the junior rights attached
to Windy Gap, but that is possible from an operational point of view --"not
only what we might get involved with, but you and everyone else here. We
think that has merit," he added. Westminster needs a minimum amount of water
to make the deal cost effective, and that is why they have targeted about
8,000 acre feet of water. What they envision doing is taking the water from
Carter Lake as one approach and that means a rather long and costly pipeline.
It also involves treatment facilities on the very north edge of Westminster.
As you come into Denver from the north on I-25, Westminster has extended
their city limits to about 152nd Ave.
The concept discussed above is before Boulder and Longmont at this point.
No conclusions have been reached. The parties involved hope to meet in
another 30 days or so, and begin to wade through each of these issues. They
hope to put together some kind of firmer program by next year. The water
supply Westminster has now, they are comfortable with until about 1992-1995,
but it takes quite a long time to get a program implemented.
The items in the Windy Gap Acquisition Concept follow:
* Westminster would purchase 4,000 AF (40 units) Windy Gap Project water each
from Boulder and Longmont.
* Either City could substitute the 4,000 AF in Windy Gap units for municipal
return flows.
* If return flows are substituted, Boulder and Longmont would have to perfect
exchanges with agricultural users of Colorado Big Thompson (CBT) water.
* Westminster would pay agreed amount for the water supply itself and share
in sub -district assessments, pumping, and associated costs.
* Westminster would utilize and take the Windy Gap raw water from storage in
Carter Lake through the Carter Lake outlet works by pipeline to
Westminster's water treatment plant. Westminster could joint venture
construction of portions of the pipeline with Boulder and/or Longmont.
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 5
* Westminster would require that agreement has been reached by the Northern
District, the United States and all participants that the Windy Gap and CBT
projects would be operated as a unified system to assure firmness of yield.
* Westminster must secure a minimum supply of at least 8,000 AF (80 units
Windy Gap) before committing to the project.
* Westminster would anticipate annexation to the Northern District as well as
the municipal sub -district under fair and equitable taxation and financial
considerations. Westminster would agree to not purchase CBT units for an
agreed period of years.
* Westminster would be open to acquiring Windy Gap units from other
participants, or consider cooperative joint projects that could benefit
both parties.
* Fair and equitable representation of Westminster on the Northern and
municipal sub -district boards is important to Westminster.
Mr. Hellbusch said he would answer questions on the concept in a somewhat
general way because they haven't gone too for beyond the conceptual stage.
Norm Evans brought up Mr. Hellbusch's comment about the integration of the
Windy Gap and the District operation. That is a subject that has come up
a number of times. "What is your impression of what that means?" Mr. Hell-
busch replied that they are certain it must have come up in the District
before. "Our concerns would be more specific than some other concerns. If
we were to utilize just Windy Gap water, obviously the yield is very ques-
tionable in dry years and would not give us what we would need as a reliable
source of water," he continued. The very early conclusions are that by
integrating Windy Gap and District operations, they would have greater
reliance on the water supply that would be acquired from Boulder and Long-
mont, since that source would be supplied by Northern District water rights
as well as Windy Gap. He added that "this would not be a supplemental, con-
tingent supply. Whatever we would receive in this quantity, must be some-
thing we could depend on."
Jim Kuiken said he was interested in the opening paragraph of background
information where the 6,000 AF in Two Forks is mentioned. If Two Forks is
delayed, how will that affect this program; will it speed it up? Mr. Hell-
busch responded: "Like most of the subscribers there, we have a concern about
timing. We take the position that we need to move ahead with something more
diligently in a shorter time frame, than the Denver Program." The emphasis
is on the Windy Gap project at this point.
John Scott commented that "it takes courage being from a suburb of Denver, to
come before the Fort Collins Water Board. If your only intention is getting
Windy Gap water by contract perhaps, why are you seeking a change to the
Northern District boundary and not just the municipal boundary?" Mr. Hell-
busch replied that their real objective is to have some policy making role,
influence or representation through the Northern Board. There may be other
ways of doing that, but this is just the simplest thing to put down. "We know
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 6
that there can be some resistance to that by the Northern District itself."
There are substantial dollars involved and significant reliance on the supply
for growth, he stressed. "Because of that, we would like to have at least a
minimal role in the policies and regulations."
Mr. Scott asked if they would see the contract being just for Windy Gap water
or just water from the Northern District. Mr. Hellbusch replied that they
see the contract being with the two cities "and we haven't cleared that
hurdle yet." Darell Zimbleman explained that the difficulty is that the Dis-
trict water can not be used directly or indirectly outside the District
boundaries. Directly is fairly easy to understand. He illustrated the indi-
rect use with the following example: There was proposed development on North
St. Vrain. The only way they could get water to that project was to take
water out of the North St. Vrain from which there was not any water avail-
able. What they had proposed to do was buy CBT water and take water upstream
of Lyons out of priority, and replace that with CBT water. There are some
problems associated with that. The obvious solution is change the District
boundaries. Then the problem is which boundaries do you change --District or
sub -district? If you only change sub -district boundaries, you run into
requirements in the Conservancy District Act that says the sub -district board
must be the same board as the District. "Everything Ron Hellbusch says is
true. There are some hurdles that have to be dealt with." On the other
hand, when Estes Park was trying to sell their Windy Gap water, the District
Board agreed to entertain the possibility of extending the sub -district
boundaries to the south. The District Board has never made indications of
that.
Mr. Hellbusch said it was their impression that there would be a willingness
to extend the municipal sub -district. There is another concept that was
brought up in discussions with the District and that is a new Northern Metro
District which would be a way to connect with the District. "If you would
put yourselves in our place, you can see why we would want some kind of direct
role in policy matters, he emphasized. "I didn't mention Estes Park, but
they were the first community we talked to after talking with the Northern
staff, because of their desire to sell their Windy Gap water these past
couple of years. We were still negotiating. The only reason we didn't put
together a deal with them was it represented a small portion of what we need
to make it cost effective." Westminster needs about 8,000 AF to make the
dollars feasible. In the meantime MDC made a proposal to Estes Park. Mr.
Zimbleman added that the advantage MDC has is that they are in Boulder
County. He also said that he congratulates Westminster for being open and
straight -forward in contrast to Thornton. "For the record, Mr. Hellbusch
assured the Board, "we don't have a tie or interest in or any arrangements
with Thornton on their Northern Project. We have to admit that they came to
us early on. We do a lot of things with Thornton and we make no judgement on
their program."
Tom Sanders asked why Westminster didn't agree to buy in on Thornton's plan.
Mr. Hellbusch replied that they felt it was an extremely complicated project
that probably would not deliver wet water in the time frame that they needed
it. "It it very imaginative, etc., but Thornton doesn't need their next
increment of water as soon as we do." He emphasized Westminster's position
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 7
by saying, "you should understand that we have never stopped acquiring water
in the neighborhood."
Rich Shannon asked the length of the pipeline they are talking about. Mr.
Hellbusch brought a map which indicated where the pipeline would be. He said
the pipeline would probably be about 30 miles long. Dave Stewart asked
if that was easier than using the canal system and pumping from Boulder. "We
do need storage in terms of the overall concept," he replied. We don't see
trying to get this water in Standley Lake, for example. Storage is an inte-
gral part of whatever we put together so we look at Carter as the best in an
existing facility." Also being able to take it at anytime, winter or summer,
is an advantage.
Mr. Stewart commented: "Since there are rumblings that Superior and Louis-
ville in that area are expanding also, and really don't have the water; are
they looking at this as a possibility for them?" "We have not talked to
them, nor has Boulder and Longmont, but as we talked with Larry Simpson and
Darell Zimbleman, they indicated that some of those cities are in need of
supplies, so there is a possibility of a joint venture on a pipeline, etc.,
but we have not talked," he stressed.
"You will share the cost with Boulder and Longmont presumably," Mr. Shannon
asked. Mr. Hellbusch said Westminster has stated if they have a need for
that kind of a joint facility they would consider it jointly. Mr. Zimbleman
said that Longmont is close to needing some winter water deliverance that the
District can't meet because "we don't operate that canal in the winter. If
something like this doesn't come along, we are going to have to work with
Longmont to figure something out." Mr. Hellbusch added that both communities
have talked about sharing in the pipeline. "We are open to that."
Dr. Sanders asked what size pipeline they envision. Mr. Hellbusch said it
depends on if they go alone or with others.
Mike Smith was confused about the integrated operation with CBT/Windy Gap.
It appears if you enhance Windy Gap, somehow you are going to detract from
CBT, he said. He asked Mr. Zimbleman or Mr. Bigham to explain how you do one
without the other. Mr. Zimbleman said he thinks what Mr. Hellbusch was ref-
erring to were the studies that Boulder and Longmont commissioned by WBLA.
"We have talked about that with the Windy Gap Project." Basically that study
says you must have an integrated operation (or unified operation) of CBT and
Windy Gap. He believes "that is what we've talked about all along." Windy
Gap was never meant to be operated by itself. It was always intended to be
operated in conjunction with CBT. It needs some CBT facilities, for example,
for carryover storage. "We have not yet nailed down all the issues that
relates to," he admitted. "Conceptually, it is nothing we haven't talked
about in terms of Windy Gap all along," he reiterated. About two months ago,
following the issuance of the WBLA report, both Boards passed a resolution
saying, as a concept, they agree that the project was intended to be operated
as an integrated unit. Mr. Smith said he still doesn't understand why if you
enhance something you are not going to detract from the other. Mr. Zimbleman
replied, very basically CBT was designed for a 310,000 AF project. The yield
has been 70% of that; 30% of the project is left unused because the hydrology
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 8
is such that the yield, on an average, has not been 310,000 AF with CBT.
Windy Gap was designed to use that unused capacity in the CBT system. "It
was designed initially to do that?" Mr. Smith asked. "Yes, that's why they
got the 310,000 units of CBT." Mr. Smith said he was always told by the Dis-
trict staff, if it comes down to a drought condition, CBT had first priority
in the system." "You are asking me a different question," Mr. Zimbleman
replied. Undoubtedly CBT and its water users have priority --that's clearly
spelled out in the carriage contract. If it is in a drought situation, as you
suggest, that is when CBT has storage capacity available. You pump 0 some
years and 90,000 others so you can get an average of 48,000. That is also
why we need to look at a Poudre project to enhance the overall management of
both projects, he added. Incidentally, that is why there was a Jasper Reser-
voir proposed in connection with Windy Gap.
Norm Evans commented if Windy Gap and the Fraser River depended upon itself
over the long haul, and you could use the storage to deliver 48 on the aver-
age annually, and some years 90, then the operation would be simply Windy Gap
standing on its own with the storage capacity space in Granby, etc. However,
that doesn't quite match what Mr. Hellbusch has suggested that it increases
the reliability if they were integrated.
Mr. Zimbleman said the Windy Gap Committee spent some time last month talking
about what an integrated operation really means. It means different things
to different people. Until we know better what demands are with Windy Gap
water, we really can't answer some of the day to day operational problems.
He commented that one of the advantages of the District taking over the
entire CBT project ideally, is that it will help them to do a better job of
integrating.
Dr. Evans stated for the record that Windy Gap was a part of the Six Cities
group of which he was a member, long before a sub -district was ever thought
of. They had negotiated with the Bureau for space and conveyance totally
secondary to CBT and unrelated to CBT other than common use of facilities for
which the Windy Gap project would pay. We even tried to get them to give us
some of the power production but they wouldn't talk about that. Before the
whole think matured into a sub -district, and there was any relation to the
CBT, there was a Windy Gap project that envisioned using facilities of the
CBT, but not being a part of it. "I mention that as part of the historic
past," Dr. Evans concluded.
Tom Moore commented that in an agreement both sides need to benefit.
"Obviously if I was a Denver suburb, I would love to tap into CBT--there is a
tremendous benefit." What benefits are you bringing to Northern Colorado?
Mr. Hellbusch replied that Boulder and Longmont see some benefits. They see
perhaps excess water for their overall needs. We haven't thought in terms of
the large scope of the benefits to the whole Northern District.
Mr. Moore asked what Westminster is prepared to offer in terms of price. Mr.
Hellbusch said that there has been a large investment made into those facili-
ties by the people of Northern Colorado, and Westminster intends to pay what
is equitable and fair.
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 9
Rich Shannon asked Darell Zimbleman how the decision is made to expand the
sub -district boundary. Mr. Zimbleman said each Board has the discretion to
do that. Mr. Shannon clarified that each Board is the same people. Is a
citizen referendum possible in this instance? Mr. Shannon explained further.
"If the Board decided to expand the parent District and the citizens of the
District said they didn't like that, can they force an election on that
issue?" Mr. Zimbleman replied "not on that issue, as far as I know." He
added that he believes it has to be approved by the presiding judge as well.
On the other hand, in the past, the Board has not done things that their con-
stituents have objected to.
Mr. Hellbusch admitted that there are some key questions being raised that
there aren't answers for now. That is why so much work must be done, and why
we have not drawn conclusions. He joked that he is not uncomfortable appear-
ing "up north" alone. "There are nice people up here." The only thing he
asks is not to make judgements "on what you feel very strongly about and that
you see as negative from your perspective at this point." We know there must
be some kind of mutual benefit or at least lack of harm to the parties
involved. "I wouldn't be here today if we weren't aware of that," he
assured.
Dr. Evans said, "we very much appreciate that and understand." You know
where the pitfalls are and what our natural inclinations would be." We
appreciate your coming and giving us this information and having a chance to
meet directly and personally with you. That's always a plus."
Staff Reports
Treated Water Production Summary
Dennis Bode referred to the graph distributed with the packets. During
August we had a peak day of 51.6 mgd., he related. The average was about 37
mgd. The use was approximately 9% above average. For the year, we are about
11% above what we projected as average use. Much of that has been the result
of a drier and hotter than average July and August, he explained. In July we
had a new max day of 54.9 mgd.; that compared with 49 mgd. the year before.
Jim Kuiken asked if the quality of the water suffered during that period.
Ben Alexander responded that it did not. John Scott asked how much was
brought across from the Michigan Ditch this year. Mr. Alexander said right
at 2,000 AF. "Isn't that a little low," Dr. Sanders asked. Mr. Alexander
replied that since the City has had the Michigan Ditch, we haven't brought
over more than 3500 AF. We were shut down for a time because there wasn't
any place for the water. Mr. Smith explained that it was a pretty dry year
up there. In a wet year, with the system the way it is designed now, we can
probably bring over 3500-4000 AF at least.
MaryLou Smith referred to an article from "Pipelines," the Water & Wastewater
Utility newsletter. She was impressed by the image of all the extra work by
the employees who had to deliver that much water during those very stressful
days. "Most of us don't think of people working with water like employees in
a factory who work under pressure and deadline. Of course those people were
having to work extra hard to produce more than was typical, and I have a
greater appreciation for what those people did," she stressed. In order to
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 10
recognize their efforts, Ms. Smith moved that a resolution of appreciation be
given to those employees for their extra effort under stressful conditions.
After Dave Stewart's second the motion was passed unanimously and with enthu-
siasm. President Evans added, "Ben Alexander, we mean it from the heart and
we thank you!"
Water Board/Staff Workshop
Molly Nortier sent notices to members which stated that the meeting will be
on October 14, and will begin at 1:00 p.m. It will be held at the University
Park Holiday Inn in the Montana State Room. There will be a break for din-
ner at 6:00, with a wrap-up following. Dr. Carl Neu will be the facilitator.
Marylou Smith believes this workshop will be an appropriate time for addres-
sing the bylaws. She will have a draft of the bylaws for members and staff
prior to the meeting. The bylaws, she stressed, are a guideline by which the
Board operates.
Tom Sanders believes that the relationship between Board and staff needs to
be addressed again.
Rich Shannon wanted to follow up on what the agenda should be so "we don't
all come with different expectations." Typically these types of meetings can
cover a variety of things, but certainly roles in terms of staff/Board rela-
tionships; sometimes the role of the chair and the review and/or creation of
goals for the Board, are also a part of that. "Is that a complete list? Dr.
Evans agreed with that kind of an agenda.
Should we be instructing Dr. Neu to take us from scratch on the goals, Mr.
Shannon asked. Dr. Evans would not have any objection on a short section for
goal development. Last time we had a strong session on setting objectives.
Our policy statement is a result of that, he said. Dave Stewart hopes that
we can do something that is more productive in terms of what we are trying to
do.
Mr. Shannon acknowledged that we do have policies. What are the tangibles to
accomplish in the next 12-24 months that are in support of those polices? We
just completed the Water Supply Policy. We have policies about how we deal
with development. How are we going to get there? MaryLou Smith wants to
look at the policies and goals we most recently came up with and see if we
still agree with these. There are some policies, she believes, that the
Board has approved but are not included in our policy statement. Mr. Shannon
tried to define how the members want to use the workshop time. Part of the
meeting will be a review and a chance to clarify existing policies, rather
than trying to create policy, he proposed. The second part of the meeting
would address what the Board wants to accomplish in the next 12-14 months?
Is that a fair statement? There was general agreement to this approach. The
secretary will send out the Water Board policy statement prior to the work-
shop.
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 11
EPA Excellence Award
Mike Smith announced that the EPA notified the Utility that the City will
receive an excellence award for operation and maintenance of Wastewater
Treatment Plant No 2. Water Board members are invited to attend the Council
work session on Tuesday, September 22 at 6:00 when the regional EPA Adminis-
trator for Region 8 will present the award to the City. Also on that day
employees of the Wastewater Treatment Division will be honored at a luncheon
and award ceremony at the University Park Holiday Inn. "We are going to try
to get a lot of mileage out of this," Rich Shannon stressed. You may have
read something in the newspapers about the City's values statement, etc.,
which is really trying to emphasize the importance of basic services in the
community. An award like this could go unnoticed unless we try to give it
some extra notoriety, he concluded. The Water Board extended their congratu-
lations. Dr. Evans encouraged Board members to attend the award ceremony on
Tuesday.
Minutes
Jim Kuiken referred to pages 4 and 5 where three changes were made. Norm
Evans also had changes in his statement on pages 11 and 12. Ray Herrmann sent
in two additions to his statement on p. 11 since he was unable to attend
today's meeting. All of these revisions will be corrected in the original
minutes and will be sent out to the City Council, Water Board and others as
revised. Tom Sanders referred to point 4 of his written comments. He
thought he had stated the per capita consumption of 187 gpcd for Fort Collins
in his oral remarks at the meeting. He also thought he had mentioned the
national average might be 20 gallons less than that. He wanted to make the
point that it isn't worth it to spend all that money to save 20 gallons per
day. Dennis Bode explained that the City's water use is higher than the 187
figure. On the average, it is more like 210-215 gpcd and that is just for
treated water. That does not include raw water that is used for parks, golf
courses, etc., he added. That figure may have been confused with the figure
for a water district which was used in a comparison chart several years ago,
Dave Stewart pointed out. Molly Nortier clarified that she included in the
minutes only the remarks that were made in addition to the written statements
submitted by Board members. In Dr. Sander's case, the figures were included
in his written statement, and the additional statement about spending all
that money to save 20 gallons of water a day, was part of his oral remarks.
How much raw water do we use per year, Mary Lou Smith asked. It is difficult
to measure it exactly, but we believe it is roughly 10% of treated water use,
Dennis Bode replied. This year when we are using about 25,000 AF of treated
water, Mr. Bode would guess that we are using about 2500 AF of raw water on
parks, etc. He stressed that this figure isn't average since this has been a
dry year.
Dennis Bode went on with the discussion of the minutes. He said in terms of
just the mechanics of the minutes, there are many small changes here. What
are your expectations as far as changing the minutes? Our normal practice is
to note those changes in the current minutes. Norm Evans asked, in this
case, that we make those changes in the text and rerun the minutes. We
wouldn't do that often, but this is a special case. Mr. Bode explained that
the minutes were sent out ahead of this meeting because we always correct
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 12
them the following time. Dr. Evans doesn't think that is a very good prac-
tice. It hardly makes it worthwhile to make corrections, he contends.
After further discussion, it was decided that the minutes of August 21, 1987,
which contained the statements of the Water Board members on the metering
issue, will be sent to the City Council revised, which means all of the
changes and additions will be made in the original text. As a general prac-
tice, however, unless other unusual circumstances arise, corrections of the
minutes will be included in the next meeting's minutes as has been the prac-
tice. Tom Moore moved the approval of the minutes as corrected. Following a
second from Jim Kuiken, the vote to accept the motion was unanimous.
Chairman Evans stated that there was a motion from the last meeting to con-
sider the full text of discussion on the metering issue at the July meeting.
The expanded text was sent to members for their perusal.
Dr. Evans believes it should be added to the minutes. However, because of
the clear statements from last month's meeting, he is open to a decision
either way. MaryLou Smith believes, given the well organized clear state-
ments from the August meeting, that the expanded text be kept by Water Board
members only and not be distributed in the usual manner. It will be confus-
ing to all those who receive them why they are getting them, she explained.
Tom Moore moved that the longer version be added to the July minutes. Tom
Sanders seconded the motion. Dr. Sanders feels strongly that this version
should be included because that discussion precipitated the more reasonable
approach for last month's meeting. A vote approved the motion 6 to 1. Mary -
Lou Smith cast the negative vote.
Other Business
Tom Moore was disturbed that Westminster has been able to go as far as
they have with their proposal. He was surprised that the District staff
allowed it to proceed this far. He firmly believes there should be a reso-
lution of some sort stating that the Water Board feels strongly about the CBT
boundaries. To even consider a change and negotiate to this point is not in
the best interests of Northern Colorado, he asserted. "I look to CBT as
being a last line of defense here and the only political entity that can pro-
tect the water." For Westminster to ever become a member of CBT is not
acceptable. Dave Stewart asked, if they became a member of the sub -district,
do you have a problem with that? Tom Moore admitted that the sub -district is
a different thing. Cities are already trying to bail out of their financial
problems by selling water to other places. That's something that has already
happened. In essence, Ron Hellbusch is saying that they want to become a
member of the full District because they don't want the junior water rights.
Mr. Moore contends that their intent is to come in under the Windy Gap sub-
district, become a full member and buy CBT water.
Dave Stewart commented that he believes the only way you could actually get
them to do that would be if they want to either enhance the system so that
the impact to the system is unnoticeable, which would be a very difficult
thing to do. "If they were able to do that, then I would say expanding that
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 13
boundary would not be a bad thing; but if they aren't able to develop that
water without impacting the existing system as it is today, then I would
agree with you."
Mr. Moore agreed if they could bring enough to the system, it would be a good
deal. The only way they can bring enough to make this a good deal to CBT is
to build the Poudre Project which is a greater impact on this area than any-
thing else. Frankly Mr. Moore believes that Boulder and Longmont selling
that water "is crazy." He would have hoped that the District would have
"looked out for us better than that." "I want the City Council to look at it
very closely," he stressed, "and if they feel the same way, I hope they will
send a very strong notice to the District Board.
Tom Sanders thinks the Board should be a little more discrete, but he agrees
with Mr. Moore in that he is worried about the physical connection in terms
of the diameter of that pipeline. If it could be made a 12" diameter to meet
their needs, he would feel more comfortable.
Mr. Moore added,"it is the political connection, no matter how small the
pipe." When that connection is made, "we're out." There are more congress
members, etc. in the metro area. The pressure will come!
Why don't we buy options on this water, Dr. Sanders suggested, "and we become
the water broker for this area." Mr. Moore responded that financially that
isn't a very good deal.
Jim Kuiken said, "why don't we sell it to them treated and turn it into
gold." Mr. Kuiken added. "We had how many meetings with the District and
the full impact of this was not made clear to us until Westminster came."
Mr. Moore said he heard that Westminster was hoping to become a part of this
and the District staff denied that.
Norm Evans commented that it is quite true that CBT runs with the idea that
there will be some dry years and that the storage capacity is carryover for
dry years for the CBT system. That is why the quota system is used. If there
is another Windy Gap plan to come in and stabilize the Windy Gap supply and
make that more reliable, it might be at the expense of some storage capacity
for dry years carryover. That would have to be carefully analyzed. That's
one of the hazards that Mr. Moore is talking about.
Dr. Sanders reiterated: "What you are saying is that there are several ways
to stop it. We can buy and control water or we make it politically tougher
to get water from us than from the Two Forks Project. They must be thinking
it is easier to come up here to get water." Mr. Moore added, "and we aren't
even making it hard for them."
"I don't think we are saying come on in and turn on the tap," Mary Lou Smith
stressed. "I think that we are being very polite and listening, but I think
it is very obvious that we aren't happy about it." She also thinks Darell
Zimbleman was just being polite.
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 14
Tom Moore contends that it is time not to be polite.
Ms. Smith said, "I want to be polite because I want to encourage their coming
directly to us instead of coming under the table. If those who come above-
board are just slapped in the face, that will encourage others to go under
the table."
Mike Smith provided further information about the situation. Their legal coun-
sel is John Carlson. We had talked with him many times. In our conversa-
tions with Mr. Carlson, we talked about our displeasure with what happened
with Thornton. John Carlson has probably advised Westminster to make an
effort to talk to us.
John Scott thinks it is time we speak up and say we don't like them coming up
here. Maybe a good way to do it is by having the Council prepare some kind
of resolution that says they are opposed to any changes in the Northern
Colorado District parent boundaries. "Financially we can't stop Boulder or
Longmont from selling them water. If it was so good, we would be out there
buying it instead of Westminster. If you stop the change of the District
boundaries, but not the sub -district, then you stop CBT from leaving the
area. They can't mix the waters. They can operate them integrated, but there
are storage rights they can't violate."
Dave Stewart thinks that undoubtedly we are going to see Windy Gap going to
Metro -Denver. "I can't see how you can stop it. Estes Park is a good
example. They can't afford the assessment. They are paying for water they
don't even get!"
Dr. Sanders said his philosophy is if we have to compete with them eventu-
ally, why don't we do it now? Mike Smith said the District won't allow us to
buy any more than a certain percentage of what we use of CBT water. "Then
why don't we help out Estes Park," Dr. Sanders asked. Mr. Moore replied that
Windy Gap water is just too expensive.
Jim Kuiken said he is just as irate about the situation as Tom Moore is. He
thinks we must stop looking towards the City Council to take a vote and
that's as far as it goes. If you look at history of water in the west, the
people in the Arkansas Valley were not pleased and their City Councils voted
against it but it didn't do a bit of good. Look at California as another
good example. "We must have a plan and talk about it --perhaps a water
authority, maybe buying water, but, he stressed, we must have a plan and we
must do something. We can't expect votes of the City Council to change
things. The votes, the people, the money, the influence, etc. are all in the
metro area and the water is here."
We do have the CBT which is a tremendous legal entity, Tom Moore insists, but
we must let them know what we want. He moved that this issue be presented to
the City Council and tell them that a resolution would be appropriate. Jim
Kuiken commented that he thinks the expertise of the City Council in this
area would generate a "knee jerk" reaction. "We would be far better off to
come up with a recommendation and sending that to the Council," he contends.
John Scott believes it is worth being on record through the Council that they
0
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 15
oppose any changes in the District boundaries because we don't want to lose
any of the CBT water out of the District.
Norm Evans believes that we can combine both tactics; along with a Council
resolution, we need to get ourselves positioned with some kind of strategy
that we could begin working on. Dr. Sanders agrees. The Thornton situation
disturbed the Council and they began buying water as a result. Now we have
two fronts coming at us and it is time for a strategy plan and action.
"Let's start controlling our own destiny-- and not just by working through
the courts," he insisted.
Norm Evans suggested a committee to begin working on this strategy. We could
use the existing committee that worked on the water policies. We could
appoint a new committee or be a committee of the whole during our October 14
workshop.
Dave Stewart asked Attorney Paul Eckman if the boundary issue can go to a
vote of the people of the District. Darell Zimbleman said it couldn't.
Could you find out about that? Mr. Eckman said he would research that sta-
tute and let the Board know.
Tom Moore said he can't believe that the NCWCD Board would vote on something
like this if they didn't think it was the will of the people. Jim Kuiken
contends that the staff of the District isn't being fully up front with that
Board.
Rich Shannon asked if at the October 14 workshop, this would fall under goals
and is something the Board wants to accomplish within the next 12 to 24
months. Is this item too big to take into our goal -setting or is it just the
thing you want to take into your goal setting retreat? Dr. Sanders said it
is a good example of what we want as a goal. We can list objectives and
decide how to accomplish them. Jim Kuiken stressed that the Board doesn't
have a more important goal. Mr. Shannon said as we look at blocks of time
for the workshop, we might try to structure the Bylaws and policies as possi-
bly a half hour each, and perhaps a couple of hours for these major goals.
This appeared to be acceptable to the Board.
Rich Shannon claims that what is happening in other parts of the country, as
Jim Kuiken pointed out, is true and inevitable. The question is not how to
stop them but how do we get a plum out of this. So it is getting on the
table what it is we think they have to bring to the table before we are
friendly. We can't buy all the water; we can't even buy enough to make a
difference.
Dr. Evans agreed that the point Mr. Shannon makes is good. He would say our
tactic should be to develop the defensive strategy which might be somewhat
offensive, but in the sense of taking initiatives etc. Mr. Shannon's idea is
important in addition. We can agree to provide a block of time on the 14th to
come up with some strategies.
Marylou Smith says that addresses the issue of looking at our long range
strategy and action about dealing with it, but she thinks Tom Moore's idea
Water Board Minutes
September 18, 1987
Page 16
that we ask Council to take a stand on the District boundaries may be a good
one.
Chairman Evans proposed that the Board do both.
Ms. Smith proposed a statement to the Council as follows: The City of West-
minster recently presented to the Water Board its preliminary plans which are
explained in the attached memorandum. The Water Board expressed to Westmin-
ster their appreciation of their forthright approach in apprising us of their
plans. However, the Water Board is opposed to any extension of the District
boundaries. We recommend that City Council go on record as opposing such an
extension, or something like that, she added. Also the City Council should
express to the District that the City of Fort Collins opposes such an exten-
sion.
Tom Moore agreed strongly with that approach and with Ms. Smith's language.
Dr. Sanders asked what we gain from it.
Dave Stewart replied that you put the District staff on notice that we aren't
going to sit by and watch the District boundaries change. Norm Evans said,
"I think we all agree that the fact the District staff has proceeded this
far, is a little shocking." "Of course they are being pushed by their mem-
bers from Boulder and Longmont," Tom Moore reminded the Board.
Tom Moore agreed to use MaryLou Smith's proposal as his motion. Marylou
Smith seconded the motion. Rich Shannon asked, "is the motion dealing with
the parent District boundaries? Dave Stewart contends that we are fooling
ourselves if we don't think the sub -district is going to change boundaries.
Be realistic, he said. "I don't think we are opposed to people who have Windy
Gap water getting it off their books because they can't afford it." He defi-
nitely believes that parent District boundaries should not change, however.
Tom Moore agreed to add parent District boundaries to his motion. We can
expand it as we feel it is necessary, he said. The second agreed to the
change.
MaryLou Smith believes that perhaps we should talk about forming a larger
group that would have the capital to buy that water and make certain it
doesn't leave the District. That we can discuss in strategy sessions.
A vote was taken on the motion. Jim Kuiken voted no and Tom Sanders
abstained. The motion passed 5 to 1 with 1 abstention.
Tom Sanders said he would like to stress in the letter to the Council that
we do appreciate Mr. Hellbusch coming up and being straightforward and hon-
est. He was assured that it would be included.
Mr. Kuiken doesn't think the Board has "their act together yet," and he
believes this communication will pass more confusion on to the Council at
this point. Therefore, he felt compelled to vote no.
Water Board Minutes• •
September 18, 1987
Page 17
Rich Shannon announced that on October 13, the Water Board will have another
opportunity to participate in a water metering discussion work session with
the City Council. It should begin at about 6:00.
It was suggested that since the Board will be meeting Tuesday with the Coun-
cil, Wednesday at the workshop and also have a regular Board meeting on Fri-
day, that perhaps the Board meeting should be cancelled. Mike Smith said
there might be some water acquisition opportunity decisions to discuss. The
Board concluded, therefore, that a decision would be made about holding the
meeting at the time of the workshop on Wednesday.
Since there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 5:02 p.m.
Water Board Secretary
,Mt51 MINS I
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CITY OF WESTMINSTER'S CONCEPT FOR
DEVELOPING SUPPLEMENTAL WATER SUPPLY
FROM WINDY GAP PROJECT
Department of Public Works
The City of Westminster has a population of approximately
65,000, with an additional 10,0000 persons provided water service
outside of the City limits. Westminster encompasses over 26
square miles of which approximately 50 percent Is developed.
Present water use is 15,000 AF per year. Projected water demand
at bulld-out of the existing City limits Is approximately 38,000
AF. The firm annual yield of Westminster's existing water supply
system Is 21.000 AF of which approximately 70 percent derives
from Clear Creek. The other 30 percent comes from a perpetual
treated water contract with the City of Thornton and a raw water
delivery contract with the Denver Water Board. Westminster
existing water supply Is anticipated to last until the
mid-199O's. An additional 17,000 AF must be acquired to provide
adequate water supply to meet future demands within the existing
City limits. The City presently has an 8 percent Interest in the
Metro Water Provider's share of the Denver Metropolitan Water
Development Agreement. This 8 percent share of the Two Forks
Project would yield approximately 6,000 AF.
WINDY GAP AGO I I S I T I ON rnigc5pT .
* Westminster would purchase 4,000 AF (40 units) Windy Gap
Project water each from Boulder and Longmont.
* Either City could substitute the 4,000 AF in Windy Gap units
for municipal return flows.
* If return flows are substituted, Boulder and Longmont would
have to perfect exchanges with agricultural users of Colorado
Big Thompson (CST) water.
* Westminster would pay agreed amount for the water supply Itself
and share In sub -district assessments, pumping, and associated
costs.
3031 West Seventy Sixth Avenue 0 80030 • (303) 429-1546
Page 2
* Westminster would utilize and take the Windy Gap raw water from
storage In Carter Lake through the Carter Lake outlet works by
pipeline to Westminster's water treatment plant. Westminster
could Joint venture construction of portions of the pipeline
with Boulder and/or Longmont.
* Westminster would require that agreement has been reached by
the Northern District, the United States and all participants
that the Windy Gap and CBT projects would be operated as a
unified system to assure firmness of yield.
* Westminster must secure a minimum supply of at least 8,000 AF
(80 units Windy Gap) before committing to the project.
* Westminster would anticipate annexation to the Northern
District as well as the municipal sub -district under fair and
equitable taxation and financial considerations. Westminster
would agree to not purchase CBT units for an agreed period of
years.
* Westminster would be open to acquiring Windy Gap units from
other participants, or consider cooperative joint projects that
could benefit both parties.
* Fair and equitable representation of Westminster on the
Northern and municipal sub -district boards Is Important to
Westminster.
&4CW&4,Wk,
Ron Helibusch,
Director of Public Works/Utilities
9/9/87