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HomeMy WebLinkAboutWater Board - Minutes - 04/26/1988L L, A WATER BOARD MINUTES August 26, 1988 Members Present Henry Caulfield, Interim President, Neil Grigg, Ray Herrmann, Terry Podmore, Dave Stewart, Tim Dow, Tom Moore, Marylou Smith, Chester Watson (alt.) Mark Casey (alt.) Staff Rich Shannon, Mike Smith, Dennis Bode, Jim Hibbard, Ben Alexander, Molly Nortier, Paul Eckman, Assistant City Attorney Guests Larry Simpson, Secretary/Manager, Northern Colorado Water Conservancy District (NCWCD) Dan MacArthur, Triangle Review Newspaper Members Absent Tom Sanders, Jim Kuiken Interim President Henry Caulfield opened the meeting. The following items were discussed: Minutes The minutes of June 17, 1988 and July 15, 1988 were approved as distributed. Out of City Service Reauest Jim Hibbard, Distribution and Collection Manager, reported that this is an out -of -city service request for both sewer and water for Phases II, III and IV of the Saddleback Subdivision (see attachment). Mr. Hibbard said that staff has no particular problems with the request. It is within the Urban Growth Area, but not currently eligible for annexation. Some water lines that will serve the area presently cross the site. Neil Grigg asked for a review of the City's policy for these requests. Mr. Hibbard explained that these requests are brought to the Water Board, according to City ordinance, for approval. Primarily, the Board's charge is to look at the engineering feasibility, water related issues. Once approval is granted from the Water Board, the request is sent to the Planning & Zon- ing Board for consideration of land use issues. By ordinance, any property that is outside the City limits requesting water or sewer or both, must be approved by both Boards. Mr. Caulfield added that the party or parties must also sign an agreement that they will not oppose annexation when they become eligible. Tim Dow moved that the Water Board recommend approval of the out -of -City water and sewer request on the condition that the applicants agree to annex- ation when they become eligible. After Tom Moore's second, the motion passed unanimously. Water Board Minutee August 26, 1988 Page 2 Jim Hibbard referred to a map of the area in question. He reviewed the background of this agreement by saying that over a year ago, the City started some discussions with the West Fort Collins Water District. The aim of those discussions was to untangle the City's and the District's service areas. The service areas of the District and the City overlap northwest of the City. There are District customers as far as Overland Trail and Vine, and City customers as far out as Bellvue. This overlap causes confusion among customers, duplicates efforts between the City and the District and there is inefficient use of distribution systems of both entities. In summary, the District will transfer 82 customers to the City and the City will transfer 64 customers to the District. Considering the facilities to be exchanged, along with the customers, the benefit to each party is equal. Therefore, there are no cash considerations. Moreover, the City of Fort Collins treats all water that West Fort Collins provides to their customers (They own the raw water). This cooperative effort is another indication that the City and the special service neighbors are getting along better than they were about 20 years ago. What the City has proposed to West Fort Collins is that the City give them some of the City's customers and the distribution facilities that are cur- rently used to serve them as far out and including the town of Bellvue and the Blackstock areas. In exchange, West Fort Collins would give us some of their customers in as far as Vine Dr., Overland Trail, Michaud Lane, around Claymore Lake and the facilities they are using to serve those customers. The final negotiated contract was included in the Water Board packets. Mr. Hibbard concluded that the participants think this arrangement will solidify both the District and the City in terms of reliability and quality of service in these areas. In addition, it will lead to more efficient water service to the area irrespective of imaginary boundary lines, and provide better service to the customers. Mr. Hibbard reported that the District Board approved the agreement at their last meeting. With the Water Board's approval, it will then go to the City Council. He then asked for questions and comments. Neil Grigg asked what the total number of customers is in West Fort Collins. "Approximately 750," Mr. Hibbard replied. "That's a net loss of 18," Dr. Grigg remarked, "which isn't too bad." Dave Stewart asked when the lines were constructed for both parties. "At various intervals," Mr. Hibbard responded. "Some of the lines in the Bell- vue area which the City is going to give them, are new. We accomplished that by working with the citizens of Bellvue and getting a local government state grant to replace some of their lines," he explained. The District lines vary from 10-20 years old with a variety of materials. Mr. Hibbard emphasized that there is a reasonable quality of material and parity for what both sides are exchanging. Water Board Mites • August 26, 1988 Page 3 Tim Dow wanted to know if any of these lines are the ones that are near the flooding problem off north Taft Hill. "No," Mr. Hibbard replied. What's their source of treated water? "We sell them their treated water." Mr. Caulfield added that they own their water rights. All we do is process their water. Mr. Hibbard explained that on an annual basis, the City deter- mines how much water they use and then the District transfers that amount of water rights. Chester Watson asked if the individuals involved have been contacted. Mr. Hibbard said the City hasn't done any major contacting yet because of not wanting to involve them until "we were reasonably sure it was going to fly." The District is considering, at this time, an increase in their rates. "If they increase their rates, we will have rough parity in the rate schedules too." Therefore, most of the customers won't see much difference; within a few dollars annually in their rates. "We will attempt to do the necessary public relations and get consent from the customers to be transferred." On the chance that there will be a few who will be opposed for one reason or another, the contract has a provision whereby the facilities will be exchanged, but not the customers. The customer not granting his consent to be exchanged will remain a customer of the City, but will be served through the other Utility on a contractual basis. "We have done that with some of the south districts on a limited basis," he pointed out. He added that the City hopes we won't have dozens of customers in that category. Dr. Watson asked if there might be any customers who think their property values may change according to who furnishes their water to them. "As Long as it's a publicly treated supply --not a well-- I don't think there will be a problem," Mr. Hibbard replied, "especially since the City provides the treatment in either case." MaryLou Smith asked if there will be portions of pipeline that will be aban- doned, because in some cases, both systems have installed pipeline in the same streets. "There are some pipelines scheduled for abandonment, but not a whole lot," he said. "One of the major benefits from a pipeline point of view, will be the looping through of existing lines, which will help reliab- ility," Mr. Hibbard assured the Board. Ms. Smith's second question related to how long it has taken to negotiate this. She recalls getting information on this more than 18 months ago. Mr. Caulfield added that the Board had approved the idea in principal at least that long ago. Mr. Hibbard stated that the negotiations haven't been difficult, just slow. "It hasn't been an extremely high priority for their staff or ours," he said. Also, one of the key factors that they were waiting for was the replacement of the private Bellvue system with state money. That was just completed this summer. Terry Podmore inquired about possible problems with the changeover. "There are some facilities to be built such as new meter pits, and some connec- tions to be made, but they are not of any magnitude that would cause any concern," Mr. Hibbard replied. "They are all fairly standard day to day operating kinds of things," he concluded. Water Board Minutes , August 26, 1988 Page 4 Marylou Smith moved that the Water Board accept staff's recommendation and recommend to the City Council to proceed with the agreement. Dave Stewart provided a second. Henry Caulfield pointed out that West Fort Collins is metered. Will the people becoming our customers have a choice to be metered or unmetered? Mr. Hibbard replied," no, they would still be outside the City limits and all our customers outside the City are metered." Mr. Caulfield also pointed out that since he has been a member of the Water Board --some 15 years --in many of those meetings the Board had requests from various people in that general vicinity to tie into the trunk line. "We gave special approvals up as far as Treatment Plant No. 1." Will this clear up this problem, he asked. "Yes, that clears up many years of those kinds of requests," Mr. Hibbard assured the Board. "We have, however, by virtue of some right-of-way agree- ments, some commitments to serve water to a few people along the Poudre Canyon pipeline route." Our intention is to negotiate that service with West Fort Collins at the time they request that service, and meet our com- mitment to them through the District, Mr. Hibbard explained. They are not getting water now but they have the right to it, he added. The question was called. The motion passed unanimously. Update: Northern Colorado Water Conservancy District - Larry Simpson Larry Simpson began by congratulating the Board on their last vote. This kind of cooperation is something the Northern District has been advocating and encouraging in all the City/water district interfaces for a lot of years, he said. "We are encouraging a more regional outlook on water treatment," he stressed. Henry Caulfield announced that he and new Water Board member Mark Casey took advantage of the District's east slope tour recently and he thanked the Dis- trict and Larry Simpson for the opportunity. Larry Simpson reviewed some of the things in which the District is currently involved: 1) Horsetooth Reservoir Modifications He explained that this is an attempt to regain the 10,000 acre feet of sto- rage we lost when the U.S. put a hold on the reservoir due to the new storm criteria. The project is not going as well as it might, he contends. Since the Bureau of Reclamation chose to administer this contract, there is the typical "federal agency vs. the contractor type of a relationship." Hopefully it won't be delayed for any long period. The District has a construction manager up there who is watching what's going on. "The pro- ject is getting done, but at a much slower rate than we would like to see, he stressed. We may see delays into next year of the 2 north dams. Mr. Simpson may still consider going to Washington to try to get the Bureau to relinquish that contract. He did emphasize that however slow the process, we will eventually get "that 10,000 AF of water back for storage." Water Board Mites • August 26, 1988 Page 5 2) He went on to explain that the District is doing major design and dis- covery work regarding what they inherited on the west slope system, particu- larly as it relates to modernization requirements and rehabilitation requirements. They have found that they are going to be required to re -wind all the motors at Granby at a cost of $500,000 each. This will be done in stages so it doesn't impact the District's ability to deliver water. In addition, substantial modernization and automation needs to be done to the system to bring it up to the state of the art. In the end, they would like those facilities to operate as reliably in the next 50 years as they have in the past. 3) The District took over operation and maintenance about 90 days ago, of the canal systems that come from Flatiron Reservoir to Horsetooth Reservoir. "They are maintained by the Bureau and they are, frankly, one step away from disaster, he asserted. The District will be replacing 100 sections of the canal this year and it is likely they will be doing likewise for the next 3 to 4 years. Unfortunately, the canal system has not been maintained for 40 years, which will make this a major effort. Again, the District is trying to make certain that there will not be a major outage of that system during a busy delivery period. 4) The pressure tunnel from the Flatiron power plant into Carter lake has basically failed, with a 10 cubic foot per second leak in it. The lining is eroding from behind the tunnel. The District is trying to get Carter Lake up to 100% of capacity so they can shut off the system for winter in order that the tunnel can be lined with steel and can be completely rebuilt during that time period. Mr. Simpson continues to try to convince those in charge that the District should perform those repairs instead of the Bureau. He explained that since the Western Area Power Authority (WAPA) was separated from the Bureau, they have not had funding and haven't been able to get funding through the appropriations system to do an adequate job of mainte- nance. In all fairness to the local Bureau, they simply have not had the funding to maintain the project. On the other hand, the District is now in a position where they can do it for less money; they can contract in a far more flexible manner. Dr. Grigg asked what budget will be used to re -wind the motors. "Basically cash," Mr. Simpson replied. "Half of the cost of that is paid by the Bureau through power revenues. When WAPA took over their part of the Bureau, they took over the marketing side of it. They took out what they needed through a revolving fund and the rest went to the treasury. The U.S. then appropriated what money was supposed to come back. The net result is that the true cost of energy at those plants has not been paid. The U.S. has been skimming the projects and letting the maintenance 'go to pot' and they've been spending the money. In the process, they haven't been paying adequate 0&M. The U.S., through the power revenues, is supposed to pay half the cost of all the maintenance of the Big T project; the water users the other half. "It's tight," he admitted. They are trying to schedule it over the next 12 years to be able to take care of all these improvements. There is about $25 mil- lion in maintenance that must be done by 1999-2002 to bring this project up to the level it should be. "We're trying to budget our anticipated revenue over that period and still not raise rates in the process." The District is working on Congress at this point to try to use their revolving fund by Water Board Minute:: August 26, 1988 Page 6 issuing the power revenue funds to pay their half. 5) From other standpoints, the South Platte Basin Management plan is con- tinuing to move forward. The District is working with the Research Institute and others trying to get the Sampson Model up to where it can be used to evaluate various types of structural and non-structural alternatives to meet the needs of the South Platte Basin, primarily below Greeley, but also as it relates to the area up in this region. Bringing all the studies together, the Poudre Basin, St. Vrain, the South Platte Basin, into a regional water resources plan, is something that is being looked at. The Governor is putting a lot of pressure on the Water and Power Authority, the Water Conservation Board and others to bring all those things together into a regional master plan for water resources for management and use here in Northern Colorado as well as the rest of the state. "We are trying to make sure we have a lot of input into that," Mr. Simpson stressed. "It's just in the talking stages at this point." Fort Collins and the cities in this area, are going to have significant input. "I'm trying to convince the State that they can't come in and plan from the top down; it's going to have to be a plan that evolves from the bottom up," he contends. "We will try to keep you apprised on this. I see something beginning to move on it within the next six months." he added. Mr. Caulfield pointed out that Mr. Simpson referred to the Sampson Model which was invented at CSU by Dr. Morrel Seytoux. Neil Grigg, the new head of the Water Resources Research Institute is in charge of seeing to it that this model gets applied and used on behalf of the University. Mr. Simpson related that the District just spent $15,000 to make the model more usable and practical. Mr. Simpson continued by saying that the District wants to make certain we have a regional plan. The Governor and others have stated that Colorado does not have water planning. On the contrary, there has been a lot of planning going on in our area. "This system didn't evolve without plans," he concluded. 6) Another problem occurred recently when the Governor made appointments to the Water Quality Control Commission and for some reason, left Northern Colorado out of the picture for the first time in the Commission's history. Mr. Simpson and others voiced some objections to the Governor after those appointments were made and the Governor subsequently withdrew them. Mr. Simpson talked with Governor Romer this afternoon and he agreed to pick someone from Northern Colorado who has the concerns and is sensitive to the water quality needs of the area. There are at least two people being con- sidered from this are; one is Connie King from Kodak and Bob Danielson, a Soil Physicist from Colorado State. Either of those would be acceptable, he said. Henry Caulfield related that for the last 5 years, Linda Burger from the Water Utility staff, has been a respected member of the Commission, but chose not to apply for re -appointment when her term ended. Water Board Motes August 26, 1988 Page 7 7) The final area Mr. Simpson reviewed was the situation with Windy Gap water. Essentially what has developed is that some cities with Windy Gap water want to sell it. Boulder for example, has decided they aren't going to grow any more so they don't need their Windy Gap water. Longmont has gotten themselves into a bind. They had their Windy Gap water financially planned but a few months ago they bought Union Reservoir. As a result, they are going to have to raise their water rates by 45%. They feel they must sell 4,000 AF of water. Greeley is strictly in the talking stages about selling water. The last time they talked about selling water, their citi- zens revolted. All three cities have been approached by the City of West- minster which lies south of the Boulder/Weld County line. The District Board's current policy is that they will entertain the purchase of Windy Gap water by anybody within Boulder, Weld or Morgan Counties. Those are areas that are represented on the Board. They serve the majority of the area and probably eventually will serve every part of those counties. Unfortunately these cities have been approached by Westminster which wants 12-16,000 AF of water. They want representation on the Board of Directors, as well. They have a whole list of contingencies. It would require a change in the sta- tute to allow them to have representation on the sub -district board. This is of concern. Mr. Simpson doesn't believe it's a political reality nor would the District board be interested in seeing them on the parent District Board. Mr. Caulfield called attention to the fact that Mr. Simpson has not made much of a distinction between sale and lease. Mr. Simpson clarified that he is speaking of permanent sale. A lease would be a totally different area. The District is presently negotiating with the City of Denver which is the provider for the metro area. Denver will consider seriously the long term (25 years) lease of Windy Gap water on a take or pay basis for an amount that would be attractive to everyone, and would help to substantially reduce the cost of Windy Gap. This is, however, only if they have a guaran- tee of a permanent supply. They are a very responsible organization and will not issue a tap based on a leased supply of water. They want a perma- nent supply guaranteed 25 years from now, i.e Two Forks, Estabrook, or a combination. When they are comfortably assured they have that permanent supply, to meet those tap needs, then they are willing to negotiate a long term lease of Windy Gap water to satisfy their interim needs. They have agreed to that proposition verbally at this point. They also have a similar type agreement with the West Slope. There is about a 50% probability that they will reach the position of attaining a comfortable enough position to consider a long term lease, and if they reach that point, Mr. Simpson believes there is an 80% probability that we will get the lease negotiated. Mr. Caulfield asked how much water would be involved in the lease. "We feel we could lease 30,000 AF of water," Mr. Simpson responded. All the participants involved built Windy Gap with the full understanding that it was to meet a need that would begin to occur in 1995 and probably not max out until 2005-2010. Actually, because of the Anheuser-Busch arrangement, Windy Gap water is being used far earlier than was anticipated. "This year we will deliver more than the 5,000 AF and we are looking at 5,000-6,000 a year we are already beginning to use. If we try to anticipate what we are going to need in the future, we could probably release at least that 30,000 for 25 years, and meet it. If we ran short, we could always meet it Water Board Minutes August 26, 1988 Page 8 through other temporary adjustments. Mr. Simpson explained that the District has put up $10.2 million for the Colorado River Water Conservation District to build a reservoir over there. After they build the reservoir, they will lease the water at $250 per AF to Denver; 15,000 AF for 30-40 years. That agreement is pretty well along at this point. If Denver can get the guarantee that they have a permanent sup- ply, they will be willing to work with both the River and Northern Colorado Districts on the lease proposition. Mr. Caulfield asked where the District Board stands on sale of Windy Gap water to Denver. The predominant consensus of the Board is that they don't want to see that water leave the Northern Colorado area, Mr. Simpson assured the Board. Mr. Caulfield explained that Windy Gap water is far more expensive than the current price of water. Therefore, the District is under considerable pres- sure primarily from Boulder, Longmont, and to a lesser degree Greeley, for economic reasons. Larry Simpson went on to say that when the Windy Gap project was decided on, the price of an acre foot of CBT water was around $3,000. At that time Windy Gap was anticipated to be about $2,000 an AF. By building Windy Gap they did what they had hoped to do and that was drive the price of CBT down. That coupled with the farm economy, however, caused the price to drop much further than anybody realized. Now it is working it's way back up. It went down as far as $660 but the latest transaction Mr. Simpson heard of was $950 a unit which translates into $1100-1200 AF. There is a lot of pressure in the water market at this time. Several cities had anticipated paying for tap fees based on a growth spurt that didn't continue. What other potential customers are there? Broomfield for instance, has expressed a burning need for 12,000 AF of water. They want Windy Gap water very badly. They are trying to put together the financing to do it. Louisville is seriously considering it and trying to find a way to work it into their system. They need 4,000 AF. Lafayette and Fort Lupton are both seriously considering it. At one point Fort Lupton paid money for an option for Estes Park's water. They had a change of leadership which changed their focus. "We are going to see some tremendous impacts on our southern areas if and when the airport gets built," Mr. Simpson predicted. Mr. Caulfield had a question about a segment of the District minutes of July 8, 1988, p. 2: "With regard to the Fort Collins (instream flow) applica- tion, Mr. Westbrook explained that the District Board had set an upper limit of 50,876 acre-feet of combined water for the City of Fort Collins, and at present they have acquired a total of 45,200 acre-feet of combined water." Mr. Caulfield stated that the City of Fort Collins is very much concerned about acquiring water in advance of need. The excerpt from the minutes which Mr. Caulfield cited raises a policy question for the City regarding the purchase of water. "Is the District Board going to become a stumbling block to our acquiring water in advance?" Mr. Simpson responded that he would hope that the District would not become a stumbling block. The policy Water Board M1ttes August 26, 1988 Page 9 right now, in an attempt to prevent undue speculation on water, etc., and also to meet some of the criticisms from the West Slope as far as beneficial use of water, is that the Board and the staff perform a detailed analysis of any agricultural user. This analysis includes what his present water supply is, what his base water supply is, the kinds of crops he raises, the kind of soil; in other words, how much water it takes to farm "that farm." The Dis- trict won't allow someone to buy more water than that farm justifies. As this relates to municipalities and water districts, the Board has used the criteria for 30+ years of taking the present demand times a factor of 2; basically, 100% over what the present demand is, looking at all the current water supplies. This criteria "obviously is not set in concrete," he said. Basically, the way that has been used and administered is: if a city or a rural domestic district gets close to that, and this happens quite frequently, "then we ask that they come in with any planning they have for the future to justify why they in fact need more water than the criteria establishes." Historically, the Board has never turned down a reasonable request. "If Fort Collins does reach that point and has a plan for what they want to do in the way of additional water, and why they need it," then the City needs to present their factual information to the Board. "The crux is that the Board wants to be certain that anybody that applies for a trans- fer of water has a need for it." Marylou Smith asked if they would consider drought protection as a need. "As a matter fact 100% reserve constitutes both the advanced purchase for growth and drought protection," Mr. Simpson replied. He added that since the criteria were set 30 years ago, there are many reasons why they might need to be changed. The Board has not felt the need to make changes because, up to this time, no reasonable request has been denied. "As you may know," Henry Caulfield began, "we are looking 30 years in advance here. When the City is ready and we go to the Board with our plan, will you be a stumbling block?" Mr. Simpson's answer was that they are not there to be a stumbling block but to provide water to their constituents. "However, we do have an obligation to protect those water rights and show a beneficial need for the allocation of them." The general understanding of the Board is if a municipality acquires more water than they need, for what- ever reason, in those years when they have more water then they are actually using, they will lease it back to the ag. community at a "reasonable" rate. Mr. Caulfield stated that Fort Collins leases excess water to the ag. commu- nity at market value or the assessment rate. Henry Caulfield pointed out the House Joint Resolution No. 1001 included in the packets calling for a study by the Colorado Water Conservation Board in response to the drought situation. Mr. Caulfield presumed that the District had a part in this. Mr. Simpson responded by saying that "actually they were trying to discourage them from taking a too precipitous action." The District would have preferred to wait until the legislature meets again and would be able to deal with it on a broader base. "It's a real opportunity to do things, but I'm concerned that somebody's going to try to accomplish something just to show they have done something and not really know what they're dealing with." Water Board Minutes August 26, 1988 Page 10 Mike Smith said that the Water and Wastewater Utility has a staff person there as an observer to keep the Utility informed of any actions. Mr. Simpson pointed out that, frankly, Rep. Paulson is concerned about trying to eliminate diligence requirements on paper water rights, for whatever rea- sons. The District is very concerned about that. "We don't need paper water rights that have been on the river for many years impeding good man- agement potential on the river," he asserted. He added that, "Those things are white elephants." It is like the Narrows decree. If that thing contin- ued without the stipulations of subordination that were worked out two years ago, it would preclude any development up stream in the Northern Colorado area. Has the Narrows been killed? "No," Mr. Simpson replied. "Basically, through this diligence process we challenged the diligence of the Narrows decree because they really hadn't done anything." The end result was, in a series of subordinations, they subordinated to all projects that might have the potential of being built prior to the Narrows, if it is ever built. As result, its impact on Northern Colorado, particularly the Poudre River Basin, Thompson and St. Vrain, is eliminated. Mr. Simpson updated the group on the Thornton situation. That litigation is proceeding. The District filed a discovery request with Thornton who has just retained new legal counsel. Therefore, this new attorney had to wait a year to be able to evaluate everything before he could release anything for discovery. The District filed an objection to that in court and the judge overruled. Thornton notified the District a few days ago that they have 50,000 documents in a large room in Thornton and "we can come look at them if we wish." Some staff from the District is now going through those documents. Henry Caulfield confirmed that whatever settlement occurs must involve the City of Fort Collins. The District is acting as the lead agency to cut down the cost to everyone. Mike Smith asked for any additional comments from the Board regarding the Windy Gap water issue, since the Board is eventually going to have to make some decisions about this. Mr. Simpson brought up another condition which Westminster has asked for and he forgot to mention earlier. Under the pre- sent Board policy, if an entity within Boulder or Weld County buys Windy Gap water, and if for some unforeseen reason, whether it be a physical outage or drought, that water is not available under present allotments, they have the right to go out on the open market for that year and rent CBT water from the farming community for delivery to replace the Windy Gap water. That's something the Board felt was just good management as long as the water users were within the Boulder/Weld County area. Westminster wants that same guar- antee. "I frankly don't believe that today's Board or any future Board would ever give that option to Westminster," Mr. Simpson believes. "That may kill the deal right there, because I don't think our Board is going to allow CBT water to cross that boundary under any circumstances," he added. Water Board Minutes August 26, 1988 Page 11 Mr. Caulfield related that Larry Simpson had made a "real pitch" during the Easter Slope tour about what a good project the Grey Mountain Dam would be for this area. Mr. Caulfield went on to say that this water presumably would not be subject to the boundaries of the NCWCD. It's Poudre River water. Mr. Simpson responded that if the District and the northern Colorado water users did develop the project, any use of that would be limited by the boundaries of NCWCD. Mr. Caulfield pointed out that it is conceivcable that the Denver water providers could say, "we might be able to make a deal to build Grey Mountain Reservoir with Glade and make a deal with the farmers to add a year or two to their drought insurance. They might even suggest something for Fort Collins in a slight way, and basically say that they would pick up the check. He asserted that this Board needs to know that it is not beyond the Denver providers coming to Larry Simpson someday and presenting him with a proposition regarding collaborating on the project. "Is that conceiveable?" "It's probably conceivable," Mr. Simpson replied, but our District does not need to build a dam to justyfy our existence; we have more than we need right now," he stressed. "If they added a couple of years of drought proof- ing to the farmer, Mr. Caulfield conjectured, "that would give you some real encouragement." Mr. Simpson believes that it would have to be of enough benefit to Northern Colorado, including municipal, industrial and agricul- ture, to make it worthwhile for Northern Colorado to ever do that." He added that the bigger concern he has is that the Constitution of Colorado says water is there for appropriation by anybody who needs it. That's the way we got water from the Western Slope against their objections," he pointed out. There are 66,000 AF, on the average, over the last 30 years, that is lost out of the Poudre River system. Out of the last 6-7 years that average has been like 250,000 AF a year. That is equivalent to the entire yield of the Two Forks project. "You've filed for the water rights," Mr. Caulfield inter- jected. "We have the water rights," Mr. Simpson confirmed, "but over filing can be done very easily. That doesn't guarantee us anything." His concern is that at some point, it's inconceivable that the State of Colorado will continue to allow that water to go into Nebraska untouched. "At some point we may find ourselves in a very vicious battle with the metro providers try- ing to prevent them from building a dam out from under us," Mr. Simpson contends. That's more of a concern than their coming to us in a cooperative manner like Westminster has done. "If we think Thornton was a problem, we had better all be guarding against somebody making a raid on either the Poudre or the St. Vrain," he claims. Both of those rivers have more excess water combined or individually than out of the South Platte River," he added. Rich Shannon directed some questions to the Board: "Presuming that Westmin- ster does pursue their interest and tries to bring the question to a head, I would suspect that within the next 1 or 2 months your staff will come to you and say we would like your opinion. Someone on the Water Board will say, what does it matter what our opinion is because we don't own Windy Gap?" We are, however, a 50% owner in PRPA who has a lot of Windy Gap water. Your representatives on the PRPA are going to want to know your opin- ion. In that context if Westminster pushes it, there will be a position Water Board Minutes August 26, 1988 Page 12 paper coming through in a month or two along the line of what Larry Simpson has presented asking you to vote on some of these issues." Larry Simpson added that the Board of Directors is going to want to hear from all of their constituencies within Northern Colorado. He encouraged all those involved to let them know what their thoughts are in this region. Rich Shannon asked if the District Board can envision a time frame. If West- minster comes to the Board and says, "Here is what we would like. Will you have enough time to put together the position and send it out to a variety of users asking for comments?" Mr. Simpson believes he will. "I haven't been involved in any of the negotiations," he said. "I'm not certain where they are for sure," he added. His understanding is that Westminster is close to submitting a formal proposal to Boulder, Longmont and Greeley. At the time they do that the cities are going to have to evaluate and debate their position. It's going to take many months to evolve. "Frankly, it can't be formally considered until I take it to the Board." He emphasized that it is one of the most difficult things the District has faced in a long time. Mr. Shannon commented that while we aren't particularly happy with what Westminster is proposing, at least we were very appreciative of their pro- cess and approach which is very different from Thronton's. They came to the Water Board a few months ago with their proposal. Chairman Caulfield thanked Larry Simpson for coming. The Board members always appreciate the update and the opportunity to ask questions, he said. Committee Reports Mr. Caulfield explained to the new members that soon they will have the opportunity to participate in the Water Board standing committee of their interest. Staff Reports Treated Water Production Summary Dennis Bode reported that the water use in July was slightly above average. So far in August it appears to be 3-4% above average. Mr. Caulfield pointed out that we came close to the projected 28,000 AF for this year. In 1987 it was 25,800 AF. It's up substantially from 1987. Mike Smith explained that a lot of that can be attributed to Anheuser-Busch. "They are in full pro- duction now," he said. Mr. Bode explained that we are about 6% above pro- jections so that 6% would be due to weather, but most of that difference between the 25,000 and 28,000 is due to A-B. He added that the projection included A-B. Neil Grigg suggested that it would be helpful to see at a glance on the report the comparison with the previous year. Mr. Bode said they would give that some thought, but normally there is only 2 or 3% difference. Mr. Caulfield related that the Northern District has a way of presenting the figures which we might look into. Water Board Motes • August 26, 1988 Page 13 Other Business Paul Eckman announced that yesterday Excalibur was to have filed their notice of appeal. No such notice was filed. This was to appeal the decision rendered by Judge Kourlis in Steamboat Springs. The motion they filed with the court in Steamboat was two parts; the motion to either alter or amend judgement or grant a new trial. The judge denied the motion but the express denial was the one to alter or amend judgement. "We think the intent of the Court was to deny the entire motion." he said. Do they have a new attorney? Albright has been discharged from her duties, Mr. Eckman replied. They haven't hired anyone else. The only attorney of record at this point is Rich Nathan. Tim Dow asked about the advance purchase of water rights and if the City has an interest in purchasing Windy Gap water. He also wanted to know what is happening with Halligan Reservoir. Mr. Caulfield explained that an ad hoc committee called the Water Supply Policy Committee was formed a few months ago composed of three City Council members and three Water Board members. The Committee has met since February to explore the advance purchase of water rights for about 30 years into the future and to discuss and recom- mend who should pay for it. The Committee will have its final meeting on September 1. A report will be coming from that group to the Water Board and City Council. Mike Smith reported that staff is proceeding with a feasibility study which began a few weeks ago on Halligan Reservoir. Dennis Bode is the project manager. The study is expected to be completed by the end of November. At that time they will be looking at the issues of cost, and any flaws that might make the project infeasible. Woodward -Clyde is doing the study. They have sub -contracted some of the work to Montgomery Engineers. As to Windy Gap water, once the decision is reached to purchase additional water, that is one option that we would be looking at again. It's still expensive, but there may be leasing possibilities. Neil Grigg congratulated the staff on the fine publication, "How the Waste Was Won," a history written about the Wastewater Division in honor of its centennial. Each Board member received a copy. Mr. Smith announced that staff will be providing tours and open houses of the Wastewater systems for the Water Board as well as the public. Since there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 5:00 p.m. Water Boa d Secretary