HomeMy WebLinkAboutWater Board - Minutes - 10/18/1974SPECIAL MEETING
October 18, 1974 - 3:30 P.M.
Present: Ward Fischer
Everett Richardson
Henry Caulfield
Raymond Anderson
Norman Evans
Harvey Johnson
W. G. Wilkinson
Robert Brunton
Absent: Karl Carson
Bernard Cain, Jr.
James Waltz
Staff members present: Liquin, Hays and Lewis.
Also: City Attorney March.
Minutes of Special Meeting of
September 23, 1974 approved
Chairman Fischer inquired if there were correctbns to the minutes; hearing
none, he declared the minutes approved as published.
Purchases of North Poudre Water
taken under advisement
Chairman Fischer stated one item would be moved up on the agenda, that being
the purchase of one share of North Poudre Waters, as in addition there were
people in the audience wishing to discuss the same subject.
Mr. Bill Frantz from Tiley-Frantz Realty stated he has a property for
sale which involves some water, the buyer feels that it is more water than
he needs and he requested that he inquire if the City is interested in
buying 35 shares of North Poudre water. His buyer would like to lease
back for a ten year period, 20 shares of it. He had discussed the matter
with the City Clerk and she had advised him that the City had not purchased
water recently, therefore, this was the purpose of his attendance, before
they submitted any formal proposal he would like to have some idea if
the City is interested and if so, what time elements are required before
some firm action could be determined.
Chairman Fischer inquired if the client had a price in mind. Mr. Frantz
responded that he was thinking in terms of $2,750 a share. The Chair
stated the Secretary had advised that the last North Poudre water the City
had purchased was in 1972 for a price of $1,200/$1,250, the $1,200 being with
a ten year lease back and the $1,250 otherwise, he suspected the market is
closed to $2,500 or $2,750. In 1972 the Water Board had recommended to the
Council and the Council had followed the Water Board's recommendation that
the City temporarily cease acquisition of Horsetooth, North Poudre, or any
other water, not because some of them were not desirable graters to get, but
until long range projection on where moneys were spent.
The questions now were several Eold, i.e., (1) whether it would be appro-
priate to jump back in the market, (2) whether the Board recommended to
hold off pending a determination of what Joe Wright, for instance, might
cost, and whether the City is going to get it, or if not, should the City
buy Horsetooth or North Poudre or other waters, and if so, what would be
a fair market price. The question that should be first answered, is
should we buy at all.
Board member Richardson stated the City should be buying water that is good
quality and accessible to the plants as we go along, he felt we should have
lcng range planning but if there is water for sale in Horsetooth or North
Poudre, as long as the market price does not get out of line, he felt we
should buy.
City Manager Brunton suggested that the Administration meet with the two
sellers and see what the price is and see what the conditions are. City
Attorney March inquired if the determination should first be made if the
City will go back into the market; the current answer as given by the
Water Board and Council is "no".
The Chairman expressed concern of the capital outlays that are really
unknown. His fear was that cash would not available to expend on such
things as environmental studies if all were used for water acquisition.
He did agree with Dr. Richardson that, as a general rule, the City should be
acquiring water, he is just concerned about acquiring it at this time,
because of the unknowns, he did realize the City's budgetary problems.
Board member Wilkinson stated he agreed with Dr. Richardson, depending on
the price. Board member Caulfield stated his inclination was to
support the position that is already stated.
Chairman Fischer inquired if the Administration could make an analysis
of what funds might be available for water acquisition without doing
violence to some of the other things we are trying to do so that the Board
could be advised, for instance, if a study is recommended on drought years,
the Board would know that City could not buy certain units of water, in
order to have a comparison.
City Manager Brunton stated rough figures could be available in a few
weeks.
The Chairman stated, unless there was a motion to the contrary, the
chair in inclined to request that the Administration advise the Board what
moneys are available for acquisition without prejudicing the other water
project and to recommend what price might be paid for waters of various
sources.
City Manager Brunton stated the two sellers would be contacted.
Need for Study of Water Supplies
during periods of sustained drought
Board member Caulfield spoke to the studies he has read and investigated
in which he determined that there were no analyses of the hydrologic con-
ditions under extreme circumstances. He, therefore, felt that such a
study would determine where the City is in terms of buying of water rights,
where the City is in terms of operating criteria of operating Joe Wright
Reservoir, also, on whether, more than Joe Wright is needed, either in
water rights purchase, or storage. Mr. Caulfield inquired if there
was a study already in existence that he was not aware of. The Board
determined that a study had been made in the fifties that would need
substantial updating.
The Chairman stated one of the problems of the Water Board, since it
controls no funds, has no budget and recommends to the Council, is the
need for information to establish priorities for recommendations it makes.
The Chair stated it was his understanding that both Bill Hansen and Mort
Bittinger had been asked to appear and speak to their proposals on a
drought study. Mr. Hansen and Mr. Bittinger and Mr. Palos spoke to the
methology of their proposals,
Board member Richardson stated the Board had been discussing the need for
various studies and how to establish priorities, the City does not have
the staff to study various water matters. He felt the City needed an
engineer that could make data available to the Board.
The Board concluded that the City Manager would report back to the Board
within the next 30 to 60 days on a suggested plan for making various studies.
Continued contact with
South Side Ditches
City Attorney March reported that some time ago, the City had placed a
moritorium on the Southside ditches in the hope that the City and the South -
side ditches would come up with an answer to a reasonable use of t1le
water in the Southside ditches. Unfortunately, after many attempts and
several letters to the Presidents and Attorneys of the ditch companies have
produced no results. The City has been holding in abeyance requests from
developers to take their water. Mr. March stated the City should resolve
the question of whether they will or will not take the water in the South=
side ditches. There are probably two possibilities outside of contina-
ing the moritorium, one would be that we would not accept it, and that
would be the end of, it, the other would be to make a determination as to
what yield we will grant. There are a lot of refinements to the second
one; an approach would be analyze what the yield is in the ditches, to
analyze, legally, what the City would anticipate would have to leave in t1'e
ditches if water was moved out and then the City would have to place a
large factor in the way of a deduction on what value is given a yield, antici-
pating that anything that is accomplished with it would require a court
suit to get accomplished.
The City Attorney stated if the Board would concur, he would like to meet
with the Chairman and analyze what the thing would be worth, and come back
i,ith a reccwu
iaendation at the next Water Board meeting.
Adjournment
Nothing further to discuss at this time, the Board adjourned.
Chairman
ATTEST:
Secretary
MEMORANDUM
TO: Arthur March, Jr., City Attorney
FROM: Verna Lewis, City Clerk
DATE: October 4, 1974
SUBJECT: Water Board Meetings for October and November
Notice has been given to the members of the Water Board regarding the dates
for the next two Water Board meetings.
The October Water Board meeting is scheduled for Friday, October 18, 1974, and
the November Water Board meeting is scheduled for Friday, November 15, 1974.
Both meetings will be in the City Council Chambers at the regular time.
cc: Robert Brunton, City Manager