HomeMy WebLinkAboutWater Board - Minutes - 12/04/1997WATER UTILITIES BOARD MINUTES
December 4,1997
3:10 - 4:40 p.m.
Light and Power Training Room
700 Wood Street
COLLNCIL LIAISON
Chuck Wanner (Present)
MEMBERS PRESENT
Paul Clopper, Chair, Alison Adams, Vice Chair, David Lauer, Tom Sanders, Joe Bergquist, John
Moms, Howard Goldman, Tom Brown, Dave Frick, Dave Rau
STAFF
Mike Smith, Wendy Williams, Gale McGaha Miller, Dennis Bode, Bob Smith, Laurie D'Audney,
Marsha Hilmes, Dave Agee, Molly Nortier
MEMBERS ABSENT
George Reed, Robert Ward
MINUTES
John Morris moved that the minutes of October 23, 1997 be approved as distributed. Joe Bergquist
seconded the motion. David Lauer pointed out on p. 5 about 2/3 of the way down, under Update on
the Food, "affective" should be changed to "effective. Also on p. 5, Gale McGaha Miller indicated
under Regional 201 Study, sentence 4 in the first paragraph, that the sentence should read: Many
alternatives involved each entity expanding "on" its own land. The minutes were approved
unanimously with these corrections.
WEIRKajolon
This item was delayed until January.
Water Utilities Board Minutes
December 4, 1997
Page 2
Treated Water Production Summary
Dennis Bode reported that for the month of October the City used 2,151 ac-ft of treated water which
is 98% of the projected amount for an average year. "For the year we are at 92% of what was
projected," he said.
Update on Post Flood Activities - Flood Conference at CSU
Marsha Hilmes, Floodplain Administrator, distributed copies of the CSU Flood Conference program
and other information. One item was the revised preliminary discharge estimates for various locations
in the City. Members of the Water Utilities Board who gave presentations at the conference were
John Morris, Dave Frick and Robert Ward. Ms. Hihnes used slides to highlight what was discussed
at the conference. The first series of slides showed the precipitation information that was gathered
after the flood by Nolen Doesken and Tom McKee, State Climatologists at CSU. They based their
information on observations by the general public and recording gauges in several locations. She
provided copies of that data. The Quail Hollow area received a high of 14.5 inches. She said that the
amounts tapper off quickly as you move towards the east. "Some areas of Fort Collins had only 1-2
inches, but the west side of town really got nailed," she pointed out. "Even though the east side of
town didn't get the amount of rain the west had, they still received damage," she added.
She went on to show some National Weather Service estimates. "They underestimated by about
50%," she said, "and this was the information we were being fed that night. We had considerably
more rainfall than what was projected." The reason for the weather service radar being so far off is
that they were calibrating to have ice (hail). However, this was a warm tropical storm coming up from
the south, and there was very little hail associated with it. For comparison, the NOAA 100 year
rainfall is 3.5 inches, "so you can see that we were well above that." There is an experimental radar
that CSU is working on based out of Greeley, which "we didn't have access to because it is an
experimental research tool. That information is still being adjusted."
The last slide of the series summarized some of the discharge information on the night of July 28th:
Taft Hill Road, 3200 cfs, Drake Rd., 3500, downstream of Shields St., the combined flow below
Canal Importation was up to 8,250. The 500-year FEMA discharge shows 3,325 cfs, "so there was
nearly twice as much coming into the ponded area behind the railroad embankment. That was a key
site to look at. That helps to explain why there was overtopping at the embankment and why the
culvert blew."
The other key area to look at is Remington Street just one block east of College. The discharge is
down to 5,000 cfs, so the detention pond area behind the railroad embankment served its purpose.
It took off over 3,000 cfs. "If we would have had the additional 3,000 cfs going downstream, we
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December 4, 1997
Page 3
would have had far more damage." The RR trestle at Riverside was at 5,860 cfs. "That was probably
the best measurement of all because that was where all the flow was contained as it went through the
trestle, and not spread out" She added that the USGS numbers should be released in the next week
or two. The next slide showed an example of a high water mark. This one was at the Dairy Queen
next to the trailer park that was destroyed. All the data related to high water marks across town will
be available too.
At the conference Ms. Hilmes talked about mitigation the City had done in the past, and she tied that
in with some of the regulations. She focused on the Spring Creek improvements accomplished by the
Stormwater Division over the past few years, which includes acquisition and relocation of structures,
channelization improvements, minor storm drainage improvements, re -enforcement of the railroad
embankment and bridge improvements.
John Morris, Facilities Operations Manager at CSU, and member of the WUB, talked at the
conference about damages and recovery at CSU. Next on the program, Glenn Levy, Battalion Chief
for Poudre Fire Authority discussed emergency response and recovery. At this time Ms. 11ilmes
showed a video produced by the PFA under the direction of Mr. Levy. "This excellent video puts it
all into perspective," she said. While the video was being set up, she handed out maps that plotted,
by different timing increments, all the 911 calls across town that came into the Dispatch Center.
"There was one call every 16 seconds," she said.
After the video , Ms. Hilmes discussed the afternoon session of the conference. Dave Frick, with
Ayres & Associates, and a WUB member, spoke about the analysis of the runoff at CSU. Wayne
Charlie, with the Department of Civil Engineering at CSU, gave an historical overview of Fort Collins
flooding. Next, Mark Smith with the U.S. Geological Survey discussed the indirect measurement of
peak discharge for the Spring Creek flood. The USGS was doing that as part of a cooperative effort
with the City. She said that the rest of the afternoon sessions concentrated primarily on the social side
of the flood. She related that CSU is working to put together a flash flood laboratory; the city
governments are part of that. They are actually trying to do some practical applications for some of
their research, and gear it towards cities' use for emergency response in dealing with flash floods.
The conference ended with a panel discussion. Robert Ward, Director of Colorado Water Resources
Institute at CSU and member of the WUB, was part of the panel. The panel discussed lessons of the
flood. Several residents of the community presented their viewpoints as well.
Bob Smith said that the Stormwater Utility is following up the flood by reviewing and updating the
design criteria. "When we have a flood like this, what does that really mean? For example, this storm
was more intense toward the end, which is opposite of what the pattern usually is."
John Morris asked about interpreting the 100-year data. "Ideally you want to have gauge data for 100
years, but it is actually based on rainfall information that we have, " Mr. B. Smith replied. "The atlas
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December 4, 1997
Page 4
information is where we get our standard data" "This kind of rainfall certainly could have an impact,"
Mr. Morris observed. Tom Sanders stated that this storm will probably be used on the Front Range
as a design storm; it's better than a PMP. "If this storm had occurred over Boulder Creek, for
instance, it would have been far worse," he said. Bob Smith said that there were over 300 people who
called in rainfall amounts. "With that amount of data, the National Weather Service can use that as
well for their calibrations." Mr. Smith emphasized that there was a lot of good data from this storm.
Paul Clopper pointed out that the rainfall the previous day had completely saturated the soil. As a
result, when the big storm hit the next night there was no place for the water to go.
Tom Brown said that the chart with the discharges seems to show that the actual discharge was far
above what is listed for a 500-year flood. "That could suggest a 1000-year, or even more. Is this the
general conclusion?" Mr. Brown asked. "At this point, yes," Ms. Mimes replied. "We are happy with
the way the estimates fit together. Actually, we are pretty surprised by that. There are four agencies
doing independent estimates; some within several hundred feet of each other. The estimates are not
considered completely accurate. Most of them could be off by up to 25%," she related. "How well
the measurements compare and then how they relate to downstream measurements, will reveal how
the pieces of the puzzle fit together. We are confident in the data we have," she said. "Even if it's off
25%, it was still a huge storm," she concluded.
Bob Smith said that the cooperation among the various agencies and consultants, and the community
was and continues to be amazing. "Information has been shared and it really has been a team effort,"
he stressed. "A week after the flood, many of the consulting firms in town volunteered time, not only
to do the estimates, but just go out and flag high water marks and take photos," Ms. Hilmes added.
"At the office we have seven binders, each three inches thick, with data from different areas in town."
Staff took utility maps and assigned each person or group of people an area to work in. These are
used to inform insurance agents for follow-ups about property damage, and for people who want
information about an area where they are looking to buy a house. "We invite people to use that
information," she stressed.
"I imagine that this City has more hydrologists per capita than any other place," Tom Sanders
remarked, followed by laughter from the group. Dr. Sanders suggested that, on Campus, the high
water marks be posted with a plaque, or something like that, so people will remember. "We're going
to do that," Ms. Hilmes responded. "We already have it in the works." Dr. Sanders thinks this is the
only way to keep the public aware of this kind of event, "because, in five years, people aren't going
to remember it," he predicted. Mr. Clopper thanked Ms. Hilmes for her fine report.
Regional 201 Study
"Contrary to what you might have read in the newspaper," Gale McGaha Miller began, "the 201
study was not finished in mid October, and it was not being funded the way the article said it was."
The study is nearly completed, other than some final touches on the project. They are getting ready
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December 4, 1997
Page 5
to schedule a final public meeting for mid to late February. There will be a blurb in the "City News"
Utility bill stuffer for January. It will be either in the Larimer County Court House or somewhere at
CSU. "What we will have is a small handful of alternatives. We won't be settling on one, because
there is still some debate about when everyone will need capacity. We selected treatment options for
a certain set of population projections, and if those are off, other options may be more desirable.
Right now it looks like nobody will need capacity at the same time, but if growth patterns are
different, we would have something in that report to guide us. Hopefully we will end up with a
product that will address a couple of scenarios that way," she stated.
Ms. McGaha Miller was asked if she has received a lot of calls as a result of the article in the
Coloradan. "I have not received any," she replied. "Is South Fort Collins Sanitation District as pro-
active about doing something about their situation using the 2002 time frame?" Mr. Lauer asked. "I
really can't answer that," Ms. McGaha Miller replied. "They are a member of the group, aren't they?"
Mr. Lauer continued. "Yes, they are. They are fully aware that it's likely they will need capacity in
2002," she replied. She added that the report shows a couple of options for them. "The two most
likely options are expanding their plant on their own land or building a pipeline to send their excess
flows to Windsor."
Regional Cooperation
Mike Smith reported that the Council and City Manager have asked that Water Utilities staff and the
Water Utilities Board develop a policy on regional cooperation that the Council can adopt. They
would like staff to include this item on an agenda for early next year. He said an article in the
newspaper about the electric utility, which talked about regional cooperation, inspired some of the
Council members to ask the City Manager for a policy on it. "Do they have some kind of approach
for us to use?" Howard Goldman asked. Paul Clopper proposed that Mike Smith, Alison Adams and
himself meet to determine which committees might proceed with this.
The Water Supply and Liaison Issues Joint Committee did not meet, but they have a meeting planned
for Tuesday December 16th at 3:30 p.m. at the Service Center to discuss the process for reviewing
and updating the City's Water Supply Policy. The Legislative and Finance and Engineering
Committees did not meet.
Conservation and Public Education
Committee Chair David Lauer said that the Conservation and Public Education Committee met at
2:00 prior to the WUB meeting. He reported that Marsha Hilmes, Floodplain Administrator, and
Kevin McBride, Water Quality Engineer, gave presentations on their activities for the past 18 months
regarding their approach to public education for the Stormwater Division. One of their annual
activities is a flood awareness week. They use newspaper articles, mailings to floodplain residents and
utility bill mailings to provide information. FEMA videos are aired on cable channels during flood
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December 4, 1997
Page 6
emergencies. Mailings to the Board of Realtors have been used to make recommendations on what
should or shouldn't be done to prepare for floods if there is development in flood prone areas. "We
asked Ms. Hilmes and Mr. McBride if this could be extended to Realtors who are in the process of
selling someone a given property," Mr. Lauer said. Ms. Hilmes said yes that would be something they
could do in terns of working through the Board of Realtors or, even better, with some of the larger
real estate companies, because so few people come to the board meetings.
Mr. Lauer continued by saying that there was some discussion about what goes on at CSU in
floodplain management. He also mentioned that the Committee discussed watershed management,
and how that relates to floodplain planning. Another topic that Mr. McBride and Ms. Hilmes talked
about was their involvement in the school district and their programs in kindergarten through 6th
grade. They plan to expand the program to the upper grades eventually. Ms. Hilmes added that
floodplain and water quality information will be included in the watershed management area. Mr.
Bergquist mentioned that there will be a web page and the Stormwater Utility is going to add to it.
"It looks quite good," he said. Bob Smith said that the Coloradoan is going to participate in the
spring flood awareness program. Mr. Lauer related that the group talked about the web page having
some integration with the brochures that are already being distributed. "We can have maps of the
floodplain in Fort Collins as a part of the web page," he added. He said that Ms. Hilmes and Mr.
McBride gave a comprehensive and interesting report. "There is a whole lot more going on than I
realized," he concluded.
Paul Clopper said that there was discussion at the meeting about whether designated floodplains are
FEMA or City designated. He mentioned that a lot of the post flood activities have been centered on
areas that have nothing to do with the floodplains. "Our question to Ms. Hilmes is what's the status
of that?" "Many of those, especially on the west side of town, were the Clearview, Plum and
Fairbrook channels. They are very small drainage areas. It was back in the 60s and early 70s before
we had any regulations in place. If you go back and look at the old topographic maps, you will see
that was a natural drainage area," Ms.Hilmes explained. She said that Stormwater will be looking at
whether the small drainages like Clearview and Plum should be counted as floodplain. "We will be
looking at storm drainage issues in the master plans," she continued. "They don't have an actual
floodplain designation. When people call in, one of the things we tell them, is that you don't have to
live in a floodplain to have a problem. A storm sewer inlet can block up and anyone's house could
be flooded. Also a detention pond could overflow, and other things can happen." She emphasized that
we all live in a floodplain of some sort.
As an extension of this, for the next Conservation and Public Education meeting, Mr. Lauer has asked
Ms. Hilmes to help prepare a map showing the five most critical areas in our service area that have
either new development planned or PUDs that have been requested or approved that are in the
floodplain or have received a variance. He asked that the meeting be scheduled for 2:00 on Thursday,
January 22, 1998, prior to the Board meeting. After the Committee reviews those areas, Mr. Lauer
•
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December 4, 1997
Page 7
will ask the Board to consider a recommendation to City Council based on the letter he sent to the
Mayor, and distributed to Board members.
Mr. Clopper asked if Milne Smith and Bob Smith continue to attend neighborhood meetings in the
aftermath of the flood. Mike Smith said that they have one in a couple of hours on the Fairbrook issue
and another Thursday on an area west of the King Soopers store on Taft Hill.
Tom Sanders asked Mike Smith to summarize what is happening with the neighborhood meetings.
Mr. Smith said the Fairbrook meetings have been difficult because the residents didn't want
development to occur next to them, but it did. Prior to the flood they complained about the storm
drainage improvements. The flood made it really difficult because it was considered to be a 500-year
occurrence, and the residents, of course, are feeling like they never want to see that again. "They
want us to modify what developers do to make it less flood prone. What they are asking for is going
to cost a lot of money and there aren't funds to do it. I don't think we will get agreement between
them and staff about what improvements should be made because they insist we prepare for greater
than a 100-year event. They don't want to risk going through what they just experienced, but when
a flood occurs again, the City becomes the 'bad guy'." "Do you know of any community that designs
for anything greater than a 100-year event?" Mr. Clopper asked. "We don't know of any," Mr. Smith
replied. 'TEMA gives us all kinds of high marks for the program that we have and what we've done,
but that doesn't make flood victims feel any better. People don't want to think about being flooded
again, but the sad thing is they could be," he said. "What is the recurrence interval for this area," Tom
Brown asked. "Fairbrook is in a non designated drainage basin but it's in a basin where water will
collect," Mr. Smith replied. "The facilities there are supposed to be designed for 1-in-100 year but
if rains exceed that, it's going over the top," he added. The farther west you go the more intense rains
you're going to get. As Ms. Hilmes said, the type of storm we had is not the typical thunder storm.
The storms that caused the flooding were warm, southern up -slope conditions that occur in late July
and early August and pile up against the foothills.
Mr. Smith mentioned that staff has had public meetings at Quail Hollow too. "They had the highest
intensity of rainfall, but there weren't as many issues there." "I assume there are fees paid by the
developer to provide the protection up to the 100-year level?" Mr. Brown asked. "That's right," Mr.
Smith replied. "So, essentially, people who live there pay for that much protection?" Mr. Brown
continued. "The developer pays to install all of the facilities to take care of their drainage, so they
don't impact people downstream," Mr. Smith answered. Mr. Brown reiterated that they have already
paid for that level of protection and now they are asking for a higher level. "It is already established
that homeowners, through the developer, pay for this. Therefore, if they want more they should pay
for more," he suggested. "We just can't take a whole area and say we will give them 500-year
protection," Mr. Smith asserted.
John Morris pointed out that most of us would have to move if we were prevented from purchasing
anything inside the floodplain. "The 500-year flood happens so infrequently that it's cheaper to repair
Water Utilities Board Minutes
December 4, 1997
Page 8
the damage that occurs rather than building the infrastructure to try to prevent it," he observed. Mike
Smith emphasized that people need to buy flood insurance. "We keep stressing that to people, but
frankly we don't make a lot of headway because many insurance agents advise against it when their
customers inquire about it." Tom Sanders wondered if the City guarantees that the developer has met
the 100-year flood requirements. "Does the city engineer inspect areas to determine that the drainage
is sufficient or that the berms are high enough?" he asked. "Plans are reviewed by our staff and they
determine if the developer has installed the correct facilities to take care of their drainage on their
development for a 100-year flood," Mr. Smith responded.
Dr. Sanders continued by asking why the real estate industry is reluctant to let potential clients know
more about floodplains and put on their deeds that buyers are in a flood prone area or a 250-year
floodplain, for example. "Maybe we should lead the way by informing the public about that," he
concluded. "If you tell people they are in the 250-year floodplain, they look at you with glazed eyes,"
Mr. Morris remarked. Dr. Sanders would like to see staff develop programs that will guide
development away from the flood prone areas, as well as the floodway. "In the long term," he said,
"we can't design the whole town to minimize the 500-year flood, but we certainly can design streets
and other infrastructure that can help move the water better."
Mr. Smith pointed out another problem. "We have these master plans that are designed to identify
the facilities to meet the 100-year flood for all of our drainage basins. Some need more facilities than
others. We have new developments that are rightfully discharging their runoff into areas where the
City has not yet made improvements. Residents don't understand what's going on there." He said that
people ask when the improvements will be completed, and "we say the master plan calls for at least
15 years." Mr. Morris reiterated that people are confused by the whole concept of the frequency
when floods are designated 100-year or 500-year, etc. Mr. Smith emphasized that this area is part of
a large basin and some of the big storms can hit pieces of the basin but impact another area that
hadn't received the full intensity of the storm.
Dave Frick pointed out that given 100 watersheds, you have a pretty good probability that you're
going to have a 100-year event in one of those watersheds every year. "In the watersheds that are
older, is moving people out one of the solutions staff has in mind?" Joe Bergquist asked. Of these
areas, Canal Importation is the basin that has the most expensive improvements, and yet has the worst
problems," Bob Smith pointed out. "In that area we have three large detention ponds. "If you're
looking at Clearview, there is the potential to purchase some property," Mike Smith explained.
"Clearview was developed in the 50s and 60s and had some major problems during this flood," B.
Smith said. "It would mean major property acquisitions for the long view."
Tom Sanders asked what the City intends to do about the mobile home parks that were destroyed.
"Are you going to allow trailers to go back in there?" Bob Smith said, "according to the newspaper,
one property owner doesn't know what he's going to do, while the other hopes to come back.
"Whoever comes back must meet current standards, but they are outside the federal 100-year
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December 4, 1997
Page 9
floodplain." "Can't we just buy that property?" Dr. Sanders wondered. "That's a tough issue," Dave
Rau began. "I was on the Storm Drainage Board when we did the Spring Creek improvements. The
City was perceived as a horrible monster, throwing people out of their homes, and what a bad deal
it was. Staff did a good job of trying to mitigate that as much as they could." After the July flood that
perception probably has changed, but in five years nobody is going to remember. "That's why
something must be done now," Dr. Sanders insisted. "How many units were moved out of there?"
Mr. Clopper asked. Mr. B. Smith answered that 32 units were moved. "The small park that is there
now was all mobile homes," Mr. Rau explained. Dr. Sanders observed that the improvements
downstream probably prevented greater property loss and saved a lot of money. "The new channels
and new bridges held up very well," Bob Smith verified. "You should take advantage of that and
point it out to the public," Dr. Sanders asserted. John Moms pointed out that with the $3.50 per
month storm drainage fee, "you can't go out and buy much of anything; the cash flow just isn't
there."
David Lauer mentioned that some planned development near his home at Prospect and Robertson,
close to Spring Creek, is one of the areas he included in his letter to Mayor Azari. "One cul d'sac in
a new townhouse PUD has to be in the Spring Creek floodplain," he said. "Another one is on 7.3
acres, which is just another 2000 feet east of where assisted housing is proposed. "It just doesn't
make sense to build housing for elderly and disabled individuals in that area." He said further that in
the past few years, he has heard that P&Z has changed the floodplain contours to allow variances to
take place. "I don't think that's true," Mike Smith responded. "The Storm Drainage Board is the one
that has to grant a variance," Dave Rau pointed out. "In 12 years we granted only 3 variances, and
two of those were in the Dry Creek area because improvements had been made."
Mike Smith stated that when there is a FEMA floodplain, you can't grant a variance. "You can go
in and modify the floodplain," Dave Frick explained, "but if you are in a FEMA floodplain area, you
must do it within their criteria, and get it approved through them to amend the maps. It is a rigorous
process," he stressed. "Technically then, you still aren't building in the floodplain, because you are
changing the floodplain itself." he pointed out. Mike Smith added, "and what is a 100-year now?"
"That's the problem. We can talk at length about this, and as we get more data, a 100-year storm
becomes bigger and bigger," Mr. Rau remarked. Mr. Frick said he's not sure that the July flood will
change the 100-year that significantly. "I'm not sure how much one event is going to skew 100 years
worth of data," he stated.
Mr. Lauer asked approximately how many modifications of the floodplain there have been. Marsha
Hilmes replied that there only have been 2 or 3. Dr. Sanders asked if they re -define the FEMA
regulations when improvements have been made downstream. "Those fills occur in areas that are
called the flood fiinge," Mr. Frick explained. "This is the area that FEMA defines as one where you
can encroach without causing significant upstream or downstream impact; for Fort Collins it is a half
foot rise in the floodway."
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December 4, 1997
Page 10
Dr. Sanders stressed the point that there is a difference between a 100-year storm and 100-year run-
off, and that results in considerable confusion.
Regional Issues
Allison Adams suggested that, since the Board meeting will end earlier today, the Board may want
to discuss some of the regional cooperation issues. Paul Clapper proposed that he, Mice Smith and
Ms. Adams get together and come up with some ideas for the Committee.
Announcement on Water Issues Group Meeting
Paul Clopper reminded the Board that the Mayor's water group will hear state Senator Ament from
4:30-6:00 at a meeting in the County Commissioners' Board Room today. He will discuss water
issues which will come before the legislature. Since the Board meeting was supposed to be short, staff
expected that some Board members may want to attend.
ADJOURNMENT
Since there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 4:40 p.m.
Water Utilities goard Secretary