HomeMy WebLinkAboutNatural Resources Advisory Board - Minutes - 07/06/2005MINUTES
CITY OF FORT COLLINS
NATURAL RESOURCES ADVISORY BOARD
Regular Meeting
281 N. COLLEGE
July 6, 2005
For Reference: Nate Donovan, NRAB Chair
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Ben Manvel, Council Liaison
- 217-1932
John Stokes, Staff Liaison
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Board Members Present
Linda Knowlton, Glen Colton, Nate Donovan,
Randy Fischer, Ryan Staychock, Clint Skutchan
Board Members Absent
Joann Thomas, Rob Petterson, Gerry Hart
Staff Present
Natural Resources Dept: John Armstrong, John Stokes, Susie Gordon, Tamara Courtney
Guests
Ann Hutchinson, Chamber of Commerce
Agenda Review:
The Board members agreed to schedule a special meeting on July 20, 2005 to thoroughly
discuss the 2003-2005 Council Policy Agenda.
Review and Approval of Minutes:
June 1, 2005 —The minutes of the June 1, 2005 meeting were unanimously approved as
written.
Resource Recovery Park, John Armstrong
The final daft will be due in a week to 10 days. John Armstrong spoke about the bio
energy update and changes to budgetary process with regard to the Resource Recovery
Park. He clarified the possible access roads and improvements along Prospect Road and
talked about the CDOT project which will break ground in 2006. This project will widen
the interchange area. Scenarios discussed for the Resource Recovery Park were "Scenario
1-restoration", "Scenario 2- low intervention" (minor development), "Scenario 3-
medium intensity use" (moderate development), and "Scenario 4- higher intensity use"
(commercial development). There is current expectation to present this topic at a City
Council work session scheduled for August 9`h, 2005.
• Donovan: Is there much potential or need for greater access south of the access road,
adjacent to I-25?
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July 6, 2005
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• Armstrong: I haven't seen, nor did the consultant come back with, anything that
suggests that there will be much development of this access road. The road
terminates at the Archery range. Given all of the physical constraints, the river and I-
25, and the amount of distance that needs to be between them means there will be no
need to develop or upgrade this any further. Unless, it were for safety. There is no
official way to connect the frontage road to the access road.
• Gordon: Is the Archery Range for sale?
• Armstrong: That is a very good question.
• John: I can't remember if it was a City or County ownership pattern in there, but I
think the County owns a big piece of it. It is all a part of the open space development.
• Gordon: Not for sale?
• Stokes: No.
• Fischer: It sounds to me like someone could sell off a part of this interchange and
then how much would the commercial developers make, and would it be easy to get
answers?
• Armstrong: It is negligible. We don't have the final figures yet. It may be more
qualitative at this juncture given the scope of this part of the project. The initial
estimates vary, because they have done work and decided that it would be a small
percentage.
• Donovan: It sounds to me like we would be upgrading the access road.
• Stokes: No, but maybe an indirect contribution, because if you make it more feasible
to develop, as an example that road and/or any other facilities, it might make
additional revenue for somebody. So I think there may be an indirect influence.
• Armstrong: If you sell off that strip it just allows for more opportunity for someone to
spread those amounts around.
• Stokes: Usually when we own property on one or both sides of a road we avoid that
whole issue around road improvements because we are not developing our projects.
But if the person across the road is developing then there is a problem because there
will be an impact.
• Knowlton: On this map it shows that the area south of the access road could be sold
off.
• Stokes: Yes- it could be commercial on both sides of the road.
• Armstrong: The maps in your packets are black and white and I knew they would be
hard to read. I will make sure that you receive updated information in your packets.
• Staychock: Does the City have a propagation plan? Do you plan to buy seeds?
• Stokes: There aren't any local companies. I will have to check with Rick on where to
get native seed? We try to get as close as we can, but sometimes you can't find it.
• Armstrong: This map shows that this area has been upgraded.
• Donovan: What you are saying is that it looks like there is a likelihood that it will be
upgraded or widened past the eastern most point.
• Armstrong: It is difficult at this juncture to promise anything. , but there is no where
to go. It dead -ends in the Archery Range. There is a setback limit from 1-25 that will
provide physical restraints.
• Donovan: I was asking because the concept map appears to show a wider road.
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July 6, 2005
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• Stokes: What I was going to say after going through the maps and lines, is what
makes sense to staff is scenario 2 and 3. Scenario 4 is not as attractive to us for a lot
of reasons. A mixture of 2 and 3 seem to make sense as it conserves the essential
minutia. We have a big shop and houses which is unusual for Natural Area programs.
Usually we have to remove the structures and replant the area. Here we inherited
these commercial buildings and my concern when we were asked to buy this was
what we would do with these large commercial buildings. That is why we came to the
realization to ask Council what they think we should do, as they asked us to buy it.
Even if we were to change it with Scenario 2 and 3 those buildings would still be
pretty much invisible so we can conserve the original minutia.
• Skutchan: If you cede the property to the North, will you be able to use the facilities
to not only enhance the environment, but also to act as a buffer as something to
staunch commercial space?
• Stokes: If it is decided to use the buildings we would write our protection standards to
it, so I think that the answer is yes.
• Skutchan: I see that as a possible positive as you use that feathering effect so it is not
so stark. Is the topography such that you could blend much like it has been done with
the larger building that blends with the environment?
• Armstrong: If you look at the shop/office that is a two story building you perceive
how difficult it is to see. But once you see how they work you can maintain the view -
shed. It feels like a very interesting opportunity.
• Skutchan: I guess why I am asking is not to drive businesses in there, but to get back
to the point of education. Last time we had talked about using this as an education
center piece for research programs. There are some aspects of Scenario 4 that could
make sense, obviously there is a sense that we are adding to development, but if used
appropriately it could enhance the layout.
• Armstrong: That is a good point. Thanks for bringing up the educational component.
It could be a way of tying these things all together.
• Fischer: Would commercial zoning work in a POL (Public Open lands)? Shops or
stores?
• Stokes: No, not under this zoning. There might be some types such as composting and
sale of compost that could occur. Stores couldn't happen.
• Knowlton: When you talk about your "Budgeting for Outcomes" which alternative is
that? How would staff time be allocated?
• Stokes: This is being sold as needing more time for research before bringing it to
Council. We may need to think about leasing out these structures for resource
recovery. Or possibly needing a planner to work on scenario 3 and 4. If we don't get
money for it- we won't have a person. It is in limbo right now. Maybe we could rent
out the shed and reseed. Staff would like to see these buildings used. Selling them for
salvage is another possibility. We are trying to get an idea from Council.
• Fischer: You are taking this to Council for informational purposes?
• Stokes: We would like guidance from council on how to proceed. This is
fundamentally different from our other properties as it is part of the 1-25 corridor.
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Council had told us not to sell it and to use it for view shed conservation. We know
that our primary goal is as a view shed and we are seeking ideas to manage it.
• Skutchan: What is the real agricultural value of leasing those fields- leading to
scenario 2?
• Armstrong: That depends- there have been some discussions with CSU for
experimental agriculture. They've done some very speculative bio-field crops and
that kind of thing.
• Skutchan: They would be targeted more for a resource kind of thing?
• Stokes: As a production site —no, but as a research site it has value. CSU has
expressed interest in using in it in the past.
• Skutchan: That lends itself more to scenario 3.
• Armstrong: I am going to wrap up and finish on the BFO related topic so you know
what went in that offer. Two components that we proposed were important parts of
our waste stream: organics and construction/demolition. We talked about hiring an
official composter to run a government drop off site. We have spoken to Research
2000 in Boulder, an architectural/research center to help them possibly find a place
here. This uses existing structures and allows us to lease out the space. They are a
nonprofit that has already received sufficient funding to establish in the Fort Collins
area.
• Stokes: They remarket the materials. As an example, I take down some 2x4s and take
it down there and make a donation, they give me a receipt as a tax write-off and they
can remarket the materials and resale them for 40 cents on the dollar. They have been
very successful.
• Fischer: How would this work long term? Would they have a year-to-year lease?
• Stokes: I haven't talked to them, but anyone who does a year-to-year will want a
piece of it. No one will want a year-to-year as that won't work with a business model.
• Skutchan: Does this fit with the other scenarios?
• Stokes: It could, it seems to makes sense. Especially the whole notion of resource
recovery at that site. If we can cluster these different businesses there: resource
conservation, a commercial station handling yard waste, and a transfer station. Those
are all nice businesses that go together and work toward our City policy objective of
50% diversion of waste. It has nice synergy. It makes money and thrives while taking
care of issues for us.
• Armstrong: Fort Collins is in a similar situation as Boulder, of starting cottage
industries to redevelop. We are strategically intercepting that material and keeping it
out of the landfill.
• Stokes: hi addition to John's last slide — we may not want to hire an operator, but we
want a public space for them to operate a transfer station. A way for them to make
money while it pays us a fee.
• Colton: So what is the secret to getting them to curbside haul it away? Do we have
people who will haul it? I heard that Gallegos Sanitation does it?
• Armstrong: In some neighborhoods.
• Gordon: They are hauling to Eaton.
• Donovan: You are envisioning.
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July 6, 2005
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• Gordon: He brings up a good point, in that if we ever want to ask the haulers to do
curbside pick up of yard waste, not just one but all of them, they will need a
legitimate and reasonable place to take it.
• Stokes: That doesn't have to be the only place that can occur. It could occur on our
proprietor land fill or the dump as an option. Getting a transfer station is what is
important.
• Skutchan: If you do something like that will it force you to use the structure for that?
• Stokes: Yeah, I have thought carefully about that. We would need to fix the road, or
someone would need to fix it.
• Armstrong: That would be the next stage in that process. If we move on the master
plan process and start essentially programming the site we will be looking at all the
big pieces.
• Skutchan: If you are looking ahead in the commercial sale of that property how would
you handle that?
• Armstrong: Boxelder Sanitation already handles some level of commercial grade -
whether it is scaled or transition will be the kind of questions we need to get at in the
next phase.
• Colton: There are similar types of non -profits out there.
• Skutchan: It would be a pretty good tool because it will also be near that visitor
center. It is a nice center piece that will allow you to display what you are doing in
the community.
• Stokes: One of the things we need to think about in terms of transportation is that
there could be problems if we are running heavy trucks by there. Or, building a hotel
or visitor center with trucks in and out of there. These are considerations that we
haven't gone through. It is all conceptual right now.
• Fischer: That is why it should be funded by Budgeting for Outcomes. The big truck
issues. There will have to be a lot of traffic.
• Donovan: What is the lease for Frontline?
• Armstrong: It is actually a two year lease. The Frontline lease was approved in March
2005, because we talked about it in February. Since then they have gotten down to
business and have been working on a prototype gassifier. Again the whole point of
the street search is looking at the feasibility of using biomass specifically to convert it
to hydrogen- very cutting edge stuff. A lot of the gassification process will occur at
the Iowa University. Kind of a tag team between this site and Iowa State as they see
if they can fine tune the this process. I prepped them with the idea of some of us
visiting them out there in early Fall and we can bring the results back. Are any of you
interested in visiting?
• Donovan: Sure.
• Donovan: I am most comfortable in scenario 2 and 3.
• Colton: We need to figure out the maximum of what can be put in there without
destroying and ruining the view shed..
• Donovan: I-25 is seen as a good plan but the set backs are a joke- it will look like one
of those 80 foot setbacks. Just crazy.
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July 6, 2005
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Fischer: I really appreciate the work being put in this. I am concerned about following
scenario 4. To me, designating those as natural areas is not compatible with real-
estate developers. We wouldn't have control if it goes to commercial developers. I
would oppose the Natural Areas Program getting involved in commercial
development where we could lose control. Sell the property and there would be
multi -story apartment buildings. Let's not sow the seeds for this. It is inappropriate to
bringing this forth. I strongly support scenario 2 and 3. It was my original idea when I
supported this project earlier. My recommendation would be to pull scenario 4 from
the whole presentation.
Knowlton: I agree.
• Skutchan: I would like to go back to the point I raised earlier. I think that you will
want to keep it zoned as is, so it compatible with commercial use. There is some
value to the educational aspect if done properly. Don't throw it out altogether, but
neither go out and push the building of convenience stores right next to it. The
educational facility could be the buffer between those areas and the activities that are
going to be next to it.
• Donovan: I think it is important that we make a recommendation about this to
Council. I would be interested in seeing the report and putting it on the Aug 3`d
agenda so we can pick it up. Can it be made available electronically?
• Armstrong: It can be available as high resolution PDF/electronic. Is that agreeable?
• Knowlton: I won't be able to look at the map, but I would like to see the words.
• Armstrong: I will do whatever people are interested in doing.
• Donovan: Thanks a lot.
• Stokes: Thanks for all of your feedback.
Building on Basics (BOB), Nate Donovan
• Donovan: The question is do we want to comment on the Council's priorities and
suggest other possible projects? The memorandum and chart with Council priorities
states they must have it done by Sept 15, 2005.
• Skutchan: I guess I struggle to see what value we can add at this level. I don't
understand in what context the Board would be addressing it.
• Knowlton: There are things I don't like here, but from a NRAB standpoint it is mute.
• Fischer: I like the River Habitat Restoration. That was the reason I wanted to put it on
[the agenda]- but from what I understand it is off the list.
• Colton: What happened?
• Stokes: Yes it is off. I don't think that it was a priority for the Council, and they
needed to address other issues. There was some question of whether Natural Areas
could fund that. We could fund some but not all of it, such as stabilization and flood
control. That is not related to our purpose. We are not concerned about this and are
comfortable with it off the list. hi some ways it is better with it off the list, because
we can step back and take a look. We will probably do some restoration near the
oxbow and northern levy in August. But the plans they had for that were pretty
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extensive. Given all the other needs right now, Council thought it wasn't rising to the
top of the list. We are very comfortable with that.
• Donovan: Do we want to comment on the trails or not?
• Fischer: I am not familiar with Troutman or what is on the list. If something is not on
the list, I guess we miss that. We are a bit late, but if there were some way to add the
Fossil Creek Trail and Cathy Fromme Prairie. There is a major roadblock, obstacle,
for completing the Fossil Creek trail over College.
• Stokes: Yeah. We are building under College.
Colton: I brought that up with Craig and he said "We'll start looking at this next
year."
• Fischer: We aren't even on the list.
• Colton: When is a bicycle program planned?
• Stokes: I don't know.
• Hutchinson: They don't know what they are going to do with those yet.
• Donovan: It looks like they took Clint's advice from the last minutes and the Bicycle
Coordinator to study the participation- so maybe that it what that is. Would it be
helpful to identify the need?
• Donovan: Should we leave the Habitat Restoration alone?
• Colton: It came out as a major campaign issue- everyone was talking about it. It was
brought before Gallegos who said some of that money could be used for river
restoration. I am waiting to see. It seemed like we would need money from a few
different sources, EPA, Natural Areas ...something. I'm waiting to see what they do.
• Donovan: Anyone want to make a motion?
• Colton: I move that we restore west of the plant, the Red Tail to Fossil Creek section.
• Fischer: I second the motion
• Skutchan: Are we just interjecting our personal opinions on this? What are we
looking at? What are we trying to get at with Board review?
• Donovan: It is in the jurisdiction of the Board to recommend to Council that it, and
possibly habitat restoration, be placed back on the list.
• Skutchan: It would be voicing support for those?
• Donovan: Yes. Maybe that would be a good thing to do, or maybe not worth it to do.
• Staychock: This is a tax, and I don't know if I feel comfortable asking them to raise
taxes for those things.
• Fischer: My hesitation about the Cache la Poudre is that we have tax means for
natural areas. But my understanding is that we don't have money for stabilization. I
am surprised with all the emphasis on the development of that part of downtown that
we have tax money to spend, but not money for the work. It is surprising that with the
emphasis on the river that it didn't make the cut. Since we have had our funding
source, Jefferson to the river has looked the same and change will be slow in coming
if the river bank problem is not solved. It would be better to work as a team, the
habitat piece with the stabilization piece. We would be able to do the stream bank
stabilization section with retaining walls.
• Colton: Was the $4.5 million with the Cadillac plans in those different scenarios?
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July 6, 2005
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Stokes: No, he wanted us to do a Cadillac restoration from Linden all the way to
Mulberry, but that is a huge project. In the first round, we wanted a line item to do
some of that work, but staff said that no one will support that and lets try to achieve
bank stabilization and restoration and diverse ecology. At this point, I talked to Mark
[Sears] about it and it is our sense it is better to wait. There may be private
development that probably will have to contribute to that stabilization work. That is
way off. hi the ecology of the project we could get a big bang for our buck. What we
don't want is for all of the burden to be placed on the Natural Areas Programs. If we
were asked to provide 3-4 %2 million it would gut all of our budget for the program for
10 years. We think we should step back and wait for private development and do
modest restoration. That is our perspective - it is probably a good idea to take a step
back. DDA may be a partner in that, combined with Utilities moneys. So if, or when,
we do a substantial project of stabilization we will have to pool from different
sources- it is lot of money.
• Knowlton: We have a motion on the table. How should it be worded to include this
particular thing?
• Colton: We support this and recommend this as a possible use of public funds.
• Donovan: I was going to make a call to learn a little about that from the temporary
Bicycle Coordinator.
• Colton: To use that underpass in the trail connection at Fossil Creek east of College.
• Donovan: I thought we were talking about Cathy Fromme trail. Are we talking just
about the underpass?
• Colton: We are talking about both.
• Donovan: Under the rail road crossing?
• Colton: Under College.
• Knowlton: We don't know what the plan is. We just want it included in the plan.
• Donovan: It is a place holder- $100,000.
• Colton: I can hold off on the Cache la Poudre thing. Every one was talking about it
during the campaign. Why can't we jump start the process. It seems like if we don't
put it in the 10 year plan, we will not follow-up on those plans.
• Knowlton: No, I think based on what John was saying, if we wait for that area to
develop then we can look at DDA and others.
• Hutchinson: I would offer that there is a lot of synergy occurring down there without
additional tax dollars. There is the DDA bidding down there as well as private.
• Stokes: We are doing lots of restoration on the corridor. Nix is on the corridor, and
Salyer is on the corridor and we are going to spend a lot of money on these
restorations. As a ranking site, frankly that site is not on the ox-bow. There are other
sites that need our attention more that are probably a better resource for wildlife.
• Colton: From a Natural Areas standpoint I agree, but from a city standpoint...
• Stokes: I am speaking purely from a restoration perspective- we have a limited
amount of restoration dollars.
• Colton: I share your concerns. I don't want our dollars only going towards this
project. Just leave it as it is.
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July 6, 2005
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• Skutchan: Are we just fishing without knowing whether we would be better off? Can
we bring information back on this? Are we wasting our time? Can we just wait and
see if the money has anything to do with trails?
• Staychock: I am abstaining.
• Donovan: If he isn't going to vote, we might as well not vote because we wouldn't
have a quorum.
• Skutchan: Can we bring information back?
• Hutchinson: My understanding is that the Council will look at a list ands see if it feels
good about the list.
• Colton: I will withdraw the motion.
• Stokes: I will ask around and get better informationi before we take any action. We
have two more meetings before they meet, right?
• Hutchinson: July 15`h is next meeting, but it won't be finalized until August.
• Donovan: Regular work session?
• Hutchinson: Yes.
The motion was abandoned with the expectation that further information will be obtained
from Smart Trips clarifying to which projects the place holder money is dedicated.
New Business
A special meeting for the NRAB is scheduled for July 20, 2005 to review the 2003-2005
Council Policy Agenda. Clint Skutchan will not be able to attend the special July 20`h
meeting due to scheduling conflicts.
Announcements
Glen Colton requested that signs be posted near the natural areas bike trails that state
"new bike trails brought to you by:" in order to educate Fort Collins citizens on where
their Natural Areas tax money is being spent.
Committee Meetings -
Solid Waste Committee Update:
Randy Fisher reported that the City of Fort Collins will add cardboard and
paperboard to the list of recyclables beginning in November, 2005. As of Jan. 1,
2006, haulers will be required to pick-up this list of recyclables. Also discussed
was the Resource Recovery Farm and an agreement was reached for the
Committee to not meet in August 2005.
Six Month Planning Calendar
There was a request from Clint Skutchan that future NRAB meetings, and other related
meetings, be scheduled in the evening hours in order to accommodate those who have
scheduling conflicts with work.
Adjourn at 8:07 PM
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Submitted by Tamara Courtney
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