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HomeMy WebLinkAboutBuilding Review Board - Minutes - 06/28/1990BUILDING REVIEW BOARD Minutes - June 28, 1990 Regular Meeting - 9:15 a.m. - Council Chambers MEMBERS PRESENT: Tony Bontz Harry Cornell Charles Cotterman Vincent Guerrie Dennis Sinnett (came late and didn't vote on licensing agenda items) Ron Baker MEMBERS ABSENT: Doug Johnson Chris Allison STAFF PRESENT: Felix Lee Paul Eckman Debbie Zeigler The minutes of the May 31, 1990 meeting were unanimously approved. Chairman Ron Baker rearranged the agenda to accommodate people present in the audience. Class D applicant, Roger P. Hass had attended the May meeting. At that time he was approved to test for a Class D license/certificate but needed one additional reference approved by the Board before issuance of the license/certificate. After reviewing submitted references Boardmember Cotterman made a motion to approve Mr. Hass for a Class D license/certificate. The motion was seconded by Boardmember Bontz. Yeas: Baker, Guerrie, Cotterman, Bontz, Cornell. Nays': None. Motion carried. Rick Emery was present requesting a Class D license/certificate. Boardmember Bontz questioned a reference on the Tony and Cassandra Knight residence. It also appears in applicant Don Flachman's file. Mr. Emery explained that the job was under contract to Don Flachman and he was responsible for all of the deodorization and repainting. The structural work was sub -contracted out to Aspen Construction where Mr. Emery was employed and subsequently he did all the structural work. Boardmember Bontz made a motion to approve the license/certificate for Mr. Emery with waiver of testing approved. Mr. Emery tested and holds a Class B certificate in Aurora. The motion was seconded by Boardmember Cornell. Yeas: Baker, Guerrie, Cotterman, Bontz, and Cornell. Nays: None. Motion carried. Class B applicant Palmer Roblin was present and came before the Board requesting license/certificate. Mr. Roblin's submittal included an application form and a letter to the Board explaining his qualifications. BRB Minutes June 28, 1990 Page 2 Felix Lee explained that the typical reference forms were not in Mr. Roblin's file mainly because he was an employee of the city for 18 years and his construction experience is on the inspection end of it. Mr. Lee didn't feel it made sense to use that kind of format and suggested that Mr. Roblin supply the Board with a partial list of major projects he was involved with in terms of inspection and his other experience as applied to his certifications and code classes. Boardmember Cotterman said it appeared that the Board was charged with the decision of whether inspection type work is equal in experience to construction type work. Boardmember Bontz asked Mr. Lee if a practicing architect has ever walked in and applied for a contractor's license and without ever having built anything but obviously with the technical knowledge of the trade. Mr. Lee said he knew the issue had come up through the years, but couldn't think of a specific case. Boardmember Baker said 6 or 7 years ago architects were automatically issued a license, but that has since changed. The Board has since taken the position that there is more to being a building contractor than just knowledge of the code. Mr. Baker said his personal feeling regarding what is said in the statute is that we require people to show demonstrated experience which includes ability to run the business. Boardmember Bontz thought making the payroll would be as important as technical knowledge. Boardmember Cotterman said as a practicing architect for many years he inspected every different kind of building ever built and he doesn't feel he is capable of being a contractor. Therefore he is opposed to this type of request. Palmer Roblin said prior to working for the city, he worked in construction as superintendent on projects. He said he could name some of the projects but would no longer know how to contact anyone on them. He built the water reservoir at St. Mary's Lake in Estes Park and rebuilt the sewer plant at LaJunta. Boardmember Baker said, as an owner, he would hesitate hiring someone to build a commercial project that can't demonstrate experience in that field. He questioned whether a Class D or E license would suit his purpose. Mr. Baker said he agrees that Mr. Roblin's experience give him a lot of qualification and stated he was not opposed to Mr. Roblin getting into the contracting business, but has a problems letting him enter the field at the Class B level. He feels it requires some things that Mr. Roblin can't produce. Mr. Roblin disagreed with Boardmember Baker. He said he knows scheduling, payrolls, deductions, how to organize, how to secure the sub -contractors, how to monitor the sub -contractors to insure they do the work properly. He's aware when he looks at a job BRB Minutes June 28, 1990 Page 3 whether it is being done properly. He said he was on the Holiday Inn project daily and did as much supervision as the superintendent did, not only on the structural but on the HVAC, fire extinguishing, alarm and back-up systems. Mr. Roblin thinks he is capable of doing the job. He stated the Board has a responsibility to investigate to see that people are at least competent, issue the license and if the applicant can not do the work, take the license away. He said he has an opportunity to go with this company and do a project for them. He said he had the opportunity to do other projects for them, but didn't want to relocate to Texas or New Mexico. Boardmember Baker asked Mr. Roblin if Grid is an existing company. Mr. Roblin said it is and the owner is in Fort Worth today. Boardmember Baker said he would not have as much trouble issuing Mr. Roblin a certificate and the license to Grid. Mr. Roblin stated he does not want just a certificate, but the license as well. Mr. Baker said if Grid wanted to make application and provide references on their company's experience he would have no problem issuing them a license and Mr. Roblin a certificate. Mr. Baker stated he has a big problem issuing Mr. Roblin a license and a certificate based on what was submitted. Boardmember Cornell asked if Mr. Roblin had a Class B project lined up. Mr. Roblin responded that he did. It is the addition to the city buildings on Wood Street. According to Mr. Roblin, the owner of Grid does most of his work out of state and he wants someone here in Fort Collins to hold the license and certificate and to insure the job is done properly. Mr. Roblin stated he also would like to put his own money into a Class B project at a later date. This is why he needs the license and certificate. Mr. Roblin said he is willing to take any test the Board would like either written or on the job. Boardmember Cotterman said he had a tendency to agree with Ron Baker and feels a Class B category license/certificate is a high level of entry. Boardmember Baker said if there were a motion to approve Mr. Roblin for a license/certificate he would vote against it. If there were a motion to approve Mr. Roblin for a Class B certificate, he would vote for it. Boardmember Bontz made a motion to approve Mr. Roblin for a Class B certificate only with waiver of testing granted based on Mr. Roblin's certifications. The motion was seconded by Harry Cornell. Yeas: Cornell, Baker, Guerrie, Bontz. Nays: Cotterman. Motion carried. Mr. Roblin asked what procedure he should follow from this point. He asked if he should go to council first to appeal or seek an attorney for court. Attorney Paul Eckman said he would need to appeal to council before he could go to court. All administrative remedies must be exhausted before going to court. BRB Minutes June 28, 1990 Page 4 Boardmember Baker recommended that Grid submit an application to the Board for a license along with their demonstrated experience in Class B work. Mr. Baker stated that if Grid held the license and Mr. Roblin the certificate, Mr. Roblin could perform exactly the way he wants to perform. Mr. Baker said if Grid has the Class B experience there will not be any problem. Mr. Baker said he felt the Board sees it that there is more to contracting than being able to supervise the work and understanding the code. Mr. Baker went on to say that's the way the Board has always functioned and also noted the statute requires demonstrated experience and neither Mr. Roblin nor Grid has provided that. Hypothetically, Mr. Roblin suggested that a superintendent on a three story or five story or ten story building performs only the actual direction of people to get the job done. Mr. Roblin stated further that a superintendent doesn't have any knowledge of payroll, federal taxes, withholding taxes, or any of that particular material. Mr. Roblin also stated the superintendent really doesn't have any experience in getting subs together, assembling the subs, scheduling or anything else. Boardmember Baker responded that he wouldn't approve that superintendent either. Mr. Roblin asked how then does a man get a contractor license. Mr. Baker said initially they would approve the applicant for a Class D license/certificate and if the individual demonstrated experience, there are provisions in the policy that will allow him to upgrade his license. According to Mr. Baker, from a practical matter, Class B owners don't hire superintendents to be fully financially responsible on their own to do Class B work. Therefore, it has never been a problem. Mr. Baker said when a superintendent works for a Class B contractor and goes into business for himself, that doesn't normally start in the Class B area. Mr. Roblin disagreed and thought there have been such people approved in Fort Collins. Mr. Roblin said he didn't think anyone in Grid has the time or would be able to pass a test. Mr. Baker explained that as a license holder they would not be required to pass a test, the certificate holder is responsible for that. The license holder needs to demonstrate experience and provide the funding for licensing and insurance for the company. The certificate holder is the superintendent on the job and he is the one who needs to know the codes and therefore is required to test. Boardmember Bontz made a motion to deny Mr. Roblin the Class B license. The motion was seconded by Boardmember Guerrie. Yeas: Cotterman, Cornell, Baker, Guerrie, Bontz. Don Flachman, Classic services, Inc., resubmitted his application. • BRB Minutes June 28, 1990 Page 5 Because a boardmember had to abstain from voting due to a possible conflict at the May meeting, there was not a quorum and the application had to be tabled. Boardmember Bontz said at the May meeting the Board was concerned because Mr. Flachman's experience did not appear to be structural. He said he still doesn't see that Mr. Flachman has structural experience. In the case of Aspen Construction and Black Construction giving references for Mr. Flachman, Mr. Bontz said he wasn't sure how the job were run but it appears that Mr. Flachman was doing the cosmetic part of these jobs and the structural portion was done by other license holders. He said he still has reservations about approving Mr. Flachman. Boardmember Baker agreed that experience was short and certainly not commercial. He felt Class D was more appropriate than Class C-01. The Board questioned why Mr. Flachman wasn't at the meeting. Debbie explained he had to be out of town. She also explained that after talking to Mr. Flachman on the phone, the Overland Trail project was structural and didn't appear so. It was a single level home and they added an entire second story after a fire in the house. She was concerned that his references might be structural but Mr. Flachman wasn't in attendance to explain. Boardmember Cotterman asked if it would be appropriate to table the decision until Mr. Flachman was in attendance. Debbie said she thought he would rather see some sort of decision and if it wouldn't work for him, he could appear at the Board's next month meeting. This would eliminate delaying him another thirty days. Boardmember Bontz made a motion to approve Mr. Flachman for a Class D license/certificate. The motion was seconded by Boardmember Cornell. Yeas: Cotterman, Cornell, Baker, Guerrie, Bontz. Nays: None. Motion carried. Discussion of open meetings with city attorney. Paul Eckman referred to the memo dated May 29, 1990 from Steve Roy regarding this. At the present time there are only three Boards that have provision for executive sessions, the Water Board, the Personnel Board and the Building Review Board. The Building Review Board may go into executive session if is determined that the subjects for determination is such that the best interest of the city or the public or an individual who will be affected by action of such board could be jeopardized by an open meeting. This is the way the code now reads and leaves the decision to subjectivity. The proposal is to change that sb executive sessions would be under the same rules as the city council's executive sessions, which are to go into executive session by majority vote to either discuss personnel matters (which wouldn't apply to the Building Review Board), to meet with attorneys representing the city in connection with adversarial situations (that could happen) or to consider the acquisition of real property (not applicable to BRB). No formal action can be taken. Another exception is that the state statute BRB Minutes June 28, 1990 Page 6 authorizes the BRB to meet in executive session to consider documents or testimony given in confidence but no decisions can be rendered at any executive sessions. Election of officers - Boardmember Sinnett made a motion to elect Chris Allison as Chairman. The motion was seconded by Boardmember Cornell. The vote was unanimous. Boardmember Cotterman made a motion to elect Tony Bontz for Vice -Chairman. However, if Chris Allison decides not to accept the position, Tony Bontz would be in for Chairman. The motion was seconded by Boardmember Guerrie. The motion carried unanimously. Farewell to Ron Baker - A placque was presented to Ron Baker from staff thanking him for eight years of service. The meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Ron Baker, Chairman Felix Staff Liaison