HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning And Zoning Board - Minutes - 10/01/1990V
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PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MINUTES
October 1, 1990
Continuation of September 24, 1990 Meeting
The special meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board was called to order at
6:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers of City Hall West, 300 LaPorte Avenue, Fort
Collins, Colorado. Board members present included: Chairman Jim Klataskc,
Bernie Strom, Jan Cottier, Laurie O'Dell, Lloyd Walker, Joe Carroll, and
Margaret Gorman.
Staff members present included Linda Ripley, Joe Frank, Tom Peterson, Paul
Eckman, and Kayla Ballard.
AGENDA REVIEW
Planning Director Tom Peterson reviewed the discussion agenda's one remaining
item; Harmony Corridor Planning Effort.
HARMONY CORRIDOR PLANNING EFFORT
Linda Ripley, Senior Planner, stated she functioned as Urban Designer and
Project Coordinator for this project. Tom Peterson and Joe Frank were
extensively involved, especially in the land use planning. She stated that this
was the culmination of approximately a year long planning effort that had
involved planning, design and citizen participation activities. All of the
activities had resulted in The Harmony Corridor Plan that had established City
policies that would guide land use decision -making in the corridor for the next
10 to 20 years. Design guidelines and standards had been established that
would set parameters for the visual appearance of the streetscape of Harmony
Road. It had also resulted in the establishment of a new zoning district. The
new zoning district was specifically designed to attract targeted business and
industry east of Timberline Road. In addition, there are administrative
guidelines for the review of technical plans in the employment zone district.
The process had also resulted in the recommendation to rezone approximately
540 acres of land located east of the Union Pacific Railroad Tracks, since the
staff report was written, property owner's had requested additional time to
understand the new zoning district and how it affected them. Staff
recommended that the board delay rezoning of the property tonight and give
the affected property owners and staff additional time to discuss the
implications of the zoning district. Staff was also recommending that the
board delay formal action on the design guidelines since there were some
setbacks in the drafting of the design guidelines and the final text was not
available until very recently.
Ms. Ripley gave a brief history of the plan since it began and a summary of
.the plan with highlights of changes that had been made to the plan since the
June 25th hearing.
Ms. Ripley went over some of the most significant issues brought up in the
planning process.
1. A charge that citizen input had been ignored.
The objective of the citizen participation process had been to give all members
of the community the chance to learn about and participate in the Harmony
Corridor Planning process. Staff had tried to inform the public about the
purpose and scope of the project and have solicited ideas and comments and
suggestions, many of which had affected the plan. There had also been
comments and concerns that could not be fully addressed in the scope of the
Harmony Corridor planning effort. Major community -wide issues such as land
use planning and the effect of land use planning on modes of transportation
and air pollution fall into this category. This did not mean the comments had
been ignored. The comments made through the planning process had already
affected the Land Development Guidance Audit and will continue to have an
effect on the Area Wide Transportation Plan and the Environmental Plan.
Citizen participation did not mean that every suggestion or comment made by
a member of the community becomes a part of the planning document.
However, all the citizen input was available and had been available to the
planning and zoning board and to the city council, the members of the
community who are ultimately responsible for making policy decisions.
2. The desire for mandates that would require transitional land uses that
would protect residential neighborhoods from incompatible development.
The Harmony Corridor Plan was a policy document and land use policy #7
spoke directly to the issue and reaffirms the City's commitment to encouraging
appropriate land use transitions. The plan also instructs the City to prepare
design guidelines which further elaborate on the effective use of design
measures for buffering between residential and non-residential uses. The
LDGS Audit was also recommending work in the area of land use transitions
and appropriate buffering. It was likely that this work would be done on a
community -wide basis but would apply to the Harmony Corridor. Staff
understands that land use transitions are a concern of residents throughout the
community and it was staff's intention to focus on that issue in the next year.
3. Preservation of open space and natural areas in the gateway.
The Plan identifies the gateway area as a key natural resource and directs the
city to continue the gateway planning effort through a series of research,
design, coordination and citizen participation activities in an effort to develop
specific strategies that would shape the future of this important area. The
City does not have enough information nor the authority to mandate
preservation of open space at this time.
4. Development of effective land use patterns and densities that could support
alternative modes of transportation.
This was another community -wide issue. It was not an unimportant one. It
was a very serious issue and one that could not be adequately addressed in the
context of this strategic plan. However, comments and concerns regarding this
issue will affect both the Area Wide Transportation Plan and the Environmental
Management Plan. Staff generally appreciates the vision that various members
of the community had shown in raising this issue and encourage these people
to continue to work ,in the process to find the best solutions for our
community.
5. Planning of traffic lights.
Staff had received numerous comments that we should not have any more
signals along Harmony Road. Again this had been a source of confusion since
the beginning of the process. The Harmony Road Access Plan was adopted in
1989. It provides the City, County, and the State Division of Highways with
a comprehensive roadway access plan from Harmony Road to Boardwalk. The
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Access Plan was designed to control access on to Harmony Road in order to
maintain acceptable levels of service into the future. It was never the intent
of the Harmony Road Plan to rethink that effort.
6. Mandating prohibitions of free standing commercial and community/
regional shopping centers.
Restricting community and regional shopping centers east of Timberline was
considered and actually appeared as a proposed land use policy in the
preliminary drattr•; The Planning and Zoning Board directed staff to delete this
proposed poHey preferring to encourage and support clean industries and
business while still allowing a mixed land use pattern to develop over time.
7. Establish effective incentives for targeting basic industries.
Staff believes that the EP, Employment Park Zoning District that was being
considered tonight would be an effective incentive for targeted business and
industries. The new zoning district offers three advantages over the current
zoning and development review process. The first advantage was that for the
first time, letters on a zoning map would establish permitted uses for properties
zoned EP, Employment Park. This allowed potential developers of targeted
businesses and industries to know at the start of the development review
process that the land use they were proposing was acceptable in this zoning
district. Current zoning does not establish that. Secondly, developers had
targeted business and industries listed in the zoning ordinance would have
street oversizing fees calculated differently. Open Space and landscaped areas
would be excluded from the calculation resulting in substantial cost savings for
targeted business and industry. Third, targeted business and industries would
be eligible for administrative review processes for final plans. Projects that
had received preliminary approval from the board may have their final plans
approved by the Director of Planning. This procedure gives applicants more
flexibility. Approval of final plans would be tied to the applicant's ability to
have technical work completed and approval from various departments. Final
approval could then be granted without waiting for the next scheduled
Planning and Zoning Board meeting.
8. Establish a city wide open space aquisition fund.
This is another very important community -wide issue that could not be
addressed within the scope of this plan. However, staff was pleased that the
Harmony Corridor Plan and specifically the gateway had focused some
attention on this issue. Staff would encourage the people interested in this to
continue to work toward a resolution and recommend that right now the
Environmental Management Plan was the most appropriate vehicle for proposing
change in the City's present system of prioritizing and purchasing open space.
9. Promote alternative transportation modes.
Transit, carpooling, bicycling, etc,. The plan does promote alternative
transportation modes through land use and urban design policies. The plan
encourages mixed use development and offers opportunities for people to work,
live and play in close proximity to where they live. This shortens trip length
and encourages alternative modes. Urban design in the plan promote the
development of the commuter bikeway system in the corridor. That
specifically was a result of citizen participation. The plan did not contain a
transportation element though and therefore did not contain specify
transportation policies. A transportation element was not included for two
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reasons; First the Harmony Road Access Plan which controls access and
designates signal locations had just been completed and adopted in 1989.
Secondly, broader issues such as the roll of transit and the relationship between
land use, transportation and air quality could be more effectively addressed in
the Area Wide Transportation Plan that was currently underway and expected to
be completed in 1991.
10. The Employment Park Guidelines should include environmental criteria.
Targeted land uses Jn the Employment Park zoning district would be subject to
the performance standards required for the IL -Limited Industrial District. These
standards were designed to protect the community from environmental hazards
and nuisances. The standards govern glare and heat, vibration, lights, smoke
emissions, odor emissions and particle emissions and set standards for these that
can be measured. Whether these standards are adequate to address all
environmental concerns in this day and age is admittedly questionable. This
had already been targeted as something that needed to be addressed as part of
the LDGS Audit and also the Environmental Management Plan. If new
environmental restrictions and or requirements are adopted as part of these
community wide planning efforts, then these requirements could be added to
the EP zone. It could be amended to include the new standards.
11. Economic criteria.
Land use decisions should be based on locational criteria, such as the
availability of utilities, the capacity of the street system and the compatibility
of surrounding land uses. Basing land use decisions on economic criteria was
quite questionable from a legal standpoint and that was why staff chose not to
do that as part of the Employment Park zoning district.
12. The reduction of the streetsizing fee and what was it's logical connection
to open space.
Calculating the street oversizing fee differently to exclude open space was
simply a way to create a financial incentive for targeted business and industry.
Staff believes the incentive is appropriate because green open space does add
to the attractiveness of the corridor and therefore is a benefit to the
community. The question had been raised as to why storm drainage fees were
not used, that might be a more logical connection. It would be a logical
connection, the problem is that those fees already are calculated on impervious
area so open space has already been excluded from the storm drainage fee.
13. Setback requirement.
Request that it should be wider that 80 feet. The purpose of the setback zone
was to provide enough area between Harmony Road and development so that
naturalistic berms and meandering trail and groves of trees could be created.
All three of these elements work together to create the landscape continuity
that are trying to achieve. Staff believes that 80 feet is the minimum in
which this can occur. A greater setback might produce an even nicer effect,
however, staff is concerned that increasing the 80 foot setback may discourage
some industries and businesses from locating along Harmony Road because of
the financial burden associated with a wider setback.
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14. Landscape standards should include xeriscape
The Harmony Oaks design concept proposed for the setback zone was designed
with water consumption in mind. All the plants proposed for setback zone
consume low to moderate amounts of water. Outside of the setback zone
developers are encouraged to use xeriscape techniques, however they are not
required to. Mandatory xeriscape requirements would be difficult to enforce
and it would also be hard to justify why xeriscaping was required in the
Harmony Corridor when it was not required in other areas of the community.
Staff presentation was concluded. _
Bill Swets, owner of land on the east side of the gateway area stated they
purchased the farm 50 years ago and they have lived there 48 years. In the
20's and 30's the farm had 9 gravel pits on it and had a reputation for
breaking people. As far as crop land was concerned, it was just about
non-existant. During the years they have leveled it, there are no gravel pits
on it now. It.is to where it can be farmed. They raise above average crops
on it, organically without commercial fertilizers. At the present time they are
supporting two families and their mother. While they only own 100 acres now,
the farm was originally 120. They have a big problem with the City of Fort
Collins planning beyond the urban growth area. The UGA stops at I-25. A
number of years ago the Town of Timnath made a Timnath Area Plan and it
went to the edge of the Urban Growth Area, it was all tied together. But now
they were trying to infringe on a Timnath Area Plan and it did not look right
to him and he did not think one town should be able to move in on another.
He was no lawyer but that did not seem legal.
The map shows wetlands on the east side of their farm and they are having a
little trouble finding the wetlands down there. They farmed that thing for 48
years and had poured alot of water in there to raise crops in there and they
had not found the swamp and they did not raise rice down there. They raise
barley, corn and hay and you just don't raise those kind of crops on wet
ground. He did not know where they came up with wetlands and they had
not been out there to look at it. They had invited a number of people to
come and look at it and show them around and no one had bothered to show
up.
He could not give them any definite dates, the abstracts for the farm states
pre 1865. At that time there were seven log cabins up and down the Poudre
River, the most famous cabin being the Strauss Cabin, and were they aware
that there were still two of the original cabins left besides the Strauss Cabin
about two miles south of the Swets farm was the Davis Cabin and on the
Swets farm there was another log cabin. No one would ever know it unless
you were up on things and look and you could never find it, but under all the
fancy siding there was a log cabin there. Its got picture windows in it and
still has the original chimney and the original roof but it wasn't wood shingles
any more it was composition. Actually you still had three of the original log
cabins which was quite an accomplishment for 130 years. There was also
something else down there and he had passed out some flyers to them. One of
the top tourist attractions in the Rocky Mountain Region was down there.
They had a note in there and one of the City Departments, Parks and
Recreation come out quite often and Poudre R-1 is out there quite often and
Windsor and Greeley and he did not know of a school district that has not
been out there, Art classes from CSU and they way things were going this year
it looks like they were going to have about 20,000 people out there this year
and about of half of them were from out of state. He did not do any
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advertising but it has been on Good Morning America, the Today Show, and
was supposed to be in People Magazine one of these days but it has been in
quite a few national publications and this was one of the things you people
were trying to destroy. You have the Anheuser Busch, which was a big tourist
attraction, and you need all the help you can get. We have the mountains, but
so do alot of other towns. True, the Swetsville Zoo was a hobby, there was no
charge to go in it, and in his wildest dream he could not of dreamt this would
happen, it was never planned, like a Weed it grew. With all the bad things in
the world today we need a little fuff0 td We need to have something like this.
He just did not want to have anything" destroyed, the nice world attraction
down there it was part of their life. Their main responsibility, if they get to
thinking about it was to make this a better place to live. We want Fort
Collins to live up to the Choice City, we want it to be good and if you try to
wipe stuff out like that, that was not doing any good. What you see down
there was 48 years of hard work, scrimping, saving, patching, making due and
they had built it into a show place and they wanted to preserve that place.
He would like to leave them with one thought, if it ain't broke don't fix it,
we did not need the government screwing it up.
Member Walker asked Mr. Swets what was it he objected to in the plan.
Mr. Swets replied the way he understood the plan was that there were three
choices, the null alternative which was what he would like to see and that
was do absolutely nothing. The second one was to put all kinds of restrictions
on them down there so they could not do anything. He stated he wanted to
plan the way he wanted to do things, he did not want to have restrictions put
on him. The third thing was to just buy the whole thing and come in with a
bulldozer and knock it down and make a park out of it. That was what he
was saying, he did not want it destroyed. He did not want to have alot of
limitations put on him, so there was one way out and that was the null
alternative.
Fred Gardner, president of Gardner Signs, Inc., stated on private sector signage
concerns were ground signs were too limiting of a design element, there were
signs like Poudre Valley Hospital signage that would not be termed ground
signs and the code was drafted, there were other signs where ground signs
were not allowed to have any open space at all underneath it. Therefore, it
allows for any sort of creative off sets for creative sort of signs where maybe
you could see landscaping or open space through the lettering of the signs. So
consequently so what happens was that it was too limiting of a criteria to have
on the signage. There was building elevations that parallel Harmony Road and
or other facias which could be seen from Harmony Road shall be subject to
the following restrictions, flush mounted signs shall be positioned within
architectural features and shall align with any other adjacent neighboring signs
of the same type. Its not really that realistic to do such a thing because some
of these projects, most of them will be spread out some distances between
-themselves so that alignment he did not think was very realistic. Item 2, all
signage shall be confined to first story of multiple story structures. Not really
fair when you consider a one story building like ESAB where it maybe has the
overall height of a three story building and then you compare that to a three
story office building having the same height, why there was a disparity there
that this did not address. Even on very attractive beltways in and out as an
example, to Dallas International Airport and Washington D.C. there was a high
tech sort of corridor there that feeds into that airport. Virtually all of the
buildings along that corridor allow very attractive signage up high on their
buildings to obviously identify and to advertise the businesses that locate in
that high tech corridor. Mistake not to allow it up at the top of the building
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was the point.
Back lit awnings where the awning itself was illuminated shall not be allowed.
Question was how was that going to be defined, point downtown Safeway he
thought most people there would agree that if was an attractive building and
that the lighted awning treatment there was attractive and as this was drafted
now, such treatments would not be allowed in that corridor, he thought that
was a mistake.
Letter styles on sign face should be legible and wC411, fordortioned. Avoid
varied or ornate type styles. In your visits down to+Chbrry Creek Shopping
Center you will see three of the major tenants, each and every one of those
uses has varied or ornate, and very stylized letter styles that were trade marks
and their symbols. He did not think it was fair to limit such signage as
specified here.
Color should be restricted to two main color elements except for corporate
symbols or logos which use various colors as part of their design. Avoid using
loud, bright colors as the main color elements. Again alot of subjectivity, how
do we define it. An award winning sign they did was Vipont Pharmaceuticals.
There was five colors in it, there was a loud color of purple in it, it was a
very sculpturally oriented sign, he had a difficult time believing that sign
would be out of place in the Harmony Road Corridor. Why limit the
creativity and not allow such signage out there. Right not in their shop they
were working on a eight color sign that would be a very attractive sign, why
place limits on the number of colors that a sign could utilize.
External illumination with the light source directed to the sign surfaces
preferred. The light source should be shielded. It's a external illumination like
these bright lights here were the most harsh and objectionable sort of lighting
source on a sign. These are the type of lights that vandals will misdirect and
can point toward traffic, or point any which way and they provide hot spots
on signs and provide more glare to motorists much more so that a well
designed internally illuminated sign. Point being it should not be part of this
draft.
Perferred materials specifies a product called alucobond its a trade name and
should not be included in the piece.
The following materials should be considered out of character with the
Harmony Oaks design concept and are not acceptable in the setback zone. A
couple of those items, stained glass and exposed neon. If you drive by the
Shores Office Park, there was very attractive signage there that incorporates
stained glass into its signage. Very attractive high quality stuff, why limit it.
Exposed neon, is used on some of the high tech buildings in various cities
around the country. When done properly it was very attractive. Why limit it
.here.
Overall the city planning process and the sign zoning code that was currently
in place for the City of Fort Collins, with a population of 90,000 were more
that adequate for accommodating the signage situations on Harmony Road. As
it relates to on -premise signage was what he was speaking to. We all need to
understand that this was never going to be a Highway 14, Harmony Road, we
have too many planning mechanisms in place right now to keep it from getting
to that sort of situation. Who was going to be the expert on signage on the
city staff. that was going to cast judgement on the designs as they were
presented. It was a rather laborious process and one that was very subjective
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in nature. Sometimes more subjective than anything else than a Planning Staff
had to deal with is the issue of signage. Project if you would, five to ten
years down the road when there turnover in a Planning Staff, who was the
expert going to be.
In this draft and in past drafts, to date there had not been enough requests,
nor had there been any sign industry input into this. A concern to them
because they felt strongly that they have alot of worthwhile input into such a
process. With the significant projects facing that would take place on
Harmony Road understanding that they were not going to be a bunch of tight
parcels along Harmony Road. There was going to be plenty of open space
between projects, there would be plenty of landscaping that would mitigate any
sort of perceived visual clutter out there in the corridor. It was mentioned
that this was going to be a regional economic draw and he hoped it was. To
do so these businesses, they need and they want good effective signage to come
to an area to be a part of that area. These targeted companies do not want to
deal with a high level of subjectivity in the process. The timing of such a
design process •was very laborious and very time consuming. Budgets for some
people may be of constrain as this was laid out. A big part of it, this project
if adopted as is, stifles design creativity. There was no significant reason that
we need another sign code in the City of Fort Collins, we have a good one
right now that was in place, its modeled by other communities around the
country. We have a workable code thats fair to all concerned. Our
recommendation would be that they keep this section out of the entire draft
and let the code that was currently in place dictate.
Dave Johnston, stated his major concern was what kind of respect did the City
of Fort Collins have for the Urban Growth Area. They were here last week
and they listened to everyone that was almost apologetic about extending the
Urban Growth Area across Prospect Road past the Urban Growth Area with
the Galatia Annexation. You can't divide property. What was the excuse for o
extending beyond the Urban Growth Area in this area. No one had requested
it and they did not have any property owners out there that he knew of that
had requested annexation. Did we have forced annexation, were we going to
condemn or what was the City's policy this week. He knew what is was last
week but he was not sure what it was this week or what it was going to be
next week.
Another question he had was, when you create financial incentives, who ends
up paying the bill. Did it revert back to the tax payers to support something
that most of them don't want.
Chairman Klataske asked Mr. Eckman to address the issue of the extension of
the Urban Growth Area and the Zoning.
Mr. Eckman replied that the City could not impose any plans outside of the
.City limits so that if this plan extends beyond the City limits it would not
have any impact in the County unless the County Commissioners were to also
adopt it. Until such time as the land which was within that planned area
becomes annexed into the City.
Mr. Swets stated he did not understand the answer.
Mr. Eckman replied that the City could draw up a plan for mid town
Manhattan but it would have no impact in Manhattan unless it was annexed
into the City. So if there were a plan that extends beyond the City limits it
has no jurisdiction to impose any requirements outside of the City limits.
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Chairman Klataske asked Mr. Eckman to go on and explain how that
annexation would occur, how it would have to take place.
Mr. Eckman replied that if the land were to be annexed, there would first
have to be a hearing before this board regarding the annexation and
recommending to the City Council that it be annexed and then it would be
heard again by the City Council two hearings to pass an annexation to pass an
ordinance to annex the property into the City. Then after it was annexed, the
plan would become effective in that area.
Mr. Johnston asked who initiates that annexation, certainly not the property
owners out there.
Mr. Eckman replied they could.
Mr. Johnston replied that he was afraid that some of them would not.
Mr. Johnston stated he was not smart enough to know why that area was
included in the City's plan when they have no reason to go out there and
annex, that was the only problem he had, leave them alone, if they wanted to
live in the City, they would have moved into the City. They want to live in
the country and the more the City comes out there, the farther away from the
country they are.
Jack Swets, the other half of the team, stated he believed that within reason a
person should be able to live his own life, mind his own business and have
control of his destiny. He also agreed that a good appearance was important.
Whether it be a single family dwelling, a business or in this particular case,
the City of Fort Collins. However, he also had a concern, he wondered
perhaps that in the search for beauty, we wanted something to look good but
had they forgotten was good. Has a pretty face covered a heart of stone and
this was brought out to him at the last public meeting that was held at the
Church on South Lemay. He was talking with one of the City representatives
and from a little bit of background knowledge he had on him he asked, "What
could we do to get your cooperation". He said it would take three things,
honesty, integrity and competence. He laughed at me, he said, "You could not
expect that from government", and you know something that worried him.
This worry was increased in a recent conversation with one of the Timnath
Home Board Members when he said he have been going through the guidelines
in your Harmony Corridor Plan and in there it read that coordination on page
1.6. Coordination efforts with other City departments, Latimer County, Town
of Timnath and the State Division of Highways should be continued. He
asked him how much contact had they had with him. He said none. There
was going to be someone coming out the third Wednesday of October to talk to
them. He wondered if the Town of Timnath was looked upon with such
disrespect that they were told after the fact, what happens. What would
happen to the people that wanted to move into the Corridor, the businessmen,
the businesswomen. What happens to the developers and then at the bottom of
the totem pole, how about the landowners. What happens to them. This was a
major concern on his part, a concern that was increased as he read through the
book because he wondered if perhaps there wasn't a second thing happening in
the corridor besides the development along Harmony Road. This was brought
out if you look on page 2.3 referring to the paragraph that states in 1989, Fort
Collins completed a feasibility study regarding the possibility of designing a
national recreation area along the Cache La Poudre River. Although City
Council choose not to pursue NRA designation, it did make a commitment to
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implement an exemplementary and comprehensive river management program
through a national historic corridor program. This river management program
may effect the future of the gateway area. Now on policies on page 4.9, UD3,
promote the development of an extensive recreational trail system that connects
the City wide system, and herein, he hoped Mr. Walker that he was addressing
your question to my brother earlier, was some of his problem. Take a look at
I-25 on down through this national historic corridor because he believed that
this was all part of an overall plan. Originally the Harmony Corridor
extended to I-25, which was a reasonable, logical stopping point. You were
looking for an entry way into Fort Collins from the main highway, I-25, fine,
go from I-25 to as far necessary, in this case the railroad tracks to give a
attractive area which they all agree was necessary. Why did they go the other
direction, they were talking about a trail system, this Heritage Corridor, the
overall plan was a trail system from Fort Collins to Greeley and then in time
it would extend on. First they had the gravel pit, it was Flatiron and now it
is Mobile Western, no problem getting trails through there. Then comes the
Swets farm, problem, that overlaps a little bit with Wilbur Snells farm. Several
years ago, Wilbur applied for a gravel mining permit. Part of the stipulation
was, we will give you a permit if a trail system was allowed through there.
Certain County officials said that was a negotiation. People in Timnath call it
something else. Beyond Wilbur Snell they go to Don King's place. Don is in
heavy construction, sand gravel mining, asphalt paving, again he needs permits
no problem getting through there. Beyond that the Three Bell Ranch, that was
a gravel operation, no problem getting through there. Beyond that the Jacobi
Farm, he did not know about that one, it was a question mark. Beyond the
Jacobi farm was the Cowan Concrete, again an operation where there would be
no problem getting trails through. So they have two hangups between Weld
County and 1-25. The Jacobi and the Swets, who was the most important and
where was all the action happening right now, the Swets. In his mind there
was something going on. His brother mentioned the wetlands, he had dumped
millions of gallons of water on that ground, and like his brother was still
looking for the wetlands out there. Perhaps there was a reason for this. If
you look on page 213 it says, "the City is committed to completing as much
open space and trail development as lottery funds will finance". Now on page
54 it says, "Wetlands had historically been considered to have little value and
generally good for nothing unless they could be filled and put to productive
use". So suddenly if they had an area considered wetlands, it was of very
little value. Secondly, if it was considered wetlands and the Heritage Corridor
thing goes through, then the government, the feds can come in and declare that
wetlands and suddenly they take over control and it was out of their hands.
Wetlands could not be used. So instead of an asset on their farm, all of a
sudden they have a liability. That was interesting because on of the big
pushes on the Heritage Corridor was willing buyer, willing seller. You have to
have a willing seller. Take out half of that land and suddenly you put them
in a big financial crunch. If you go to page 510 where it talks about
extending the Urban Growth Area, what did that mean, go to page 39 and it
says, "the City should annex all incorporated areas within the Harmony
Corridor". So now we have the City pushing for annexation, suddenly they
were surrounded by all sorts of rules and regulations. They could not even fix
a corral fence without a permit. Was this really the plan that you people
have, was this what they meant when they said they wanted to make quality
of life. There were three things that concerned him, honesty, integrity and
competence.
Chairman Klataske asked Ms. Ripley to address the wetlands area and how was
it determined. Was it already specified as a wetlands area and if so by whom.
10-
Ms. Ripley replied that she had the Natural Resources Department field check
the wetland areas on an existing map that the City was using. Until tonight
she was not aware that these areas were being questioned. She thanked Mr.
Swets for bringing this to her attention and would have someone from the
Natural Resources Department either validate that they were in fact there or
remove them from the map.
Member O'Dell asked if there were a trail system that would be built as Mr.
Swets was describing and Mr. Swets was not willing to have a trail go through
his property. What could the City do if they really wanted that trail.
Ms. Ripley replied that Tom Peterson might be able to address that more
clearly and as far as the Harmony Corridor Planning Effort was concerned
they did not have a trail system planned. It would most likely be part of the
National Heritage Corridor Project.
Mr. Peterson replied that the City had two options when they acquire land for
trails, one is willing buyer, willing seller and the other was condemnation. In
terms of the National Heritage Corridor, which Mr. Swets property sits in, the
legislation thats been introduced speaks to willing buyer, willing seller was the
only means for land acquisition.
Member Cottier asked about the proposed gateway boundary east of I-25 that
follows the river and was it correct to assume that if the gateway concept
were to be included in this plan that they would be looking to try to make
that the UGA boundary.
Ms. Ripley replied, no that was not true at this time. Although that was
something that staff did consider, thinking that the river might be a more
logical boundary for the UGA line. It was not a necessarily part of the
gateway planning effort at all. What is necessary is that Larimer County, the
City and the Town of Timnath all agree on a planning effort for that area.
That could be accomplished through an intergovernmental agreement, it
wouldn't necessarily take moving the UGA line and that might be a more
logical thing to pursue given the resistance to moving the UGA line.
Mr. Peterson also replied that when looking at the gateway area, it was decided
to look at all four quadrants of the intersection. Because the intersection itself
was the gateway, it wasn't half the intersection it was the full intersection and
the river did form a natural boundary as Linda suggested.
Ward Luthi, stated the issue tonight was the Harmony Corridor Plan and
whether it should be adopted as it stands. His response was absolutly not. He
had been trying for a long time since this plan was developed to take a very
sane and rational and tactful approach to tonights meeting. He would like to
.first address Linda Ripley's answers to the questions and points that were
responded to. He was, a little concerned about the turn out tonight of the
citizens of this community. It was stated that 150 Harmony Corridor Plans
passed out and there are 90,000 people in the community. He knew there were
other people involved, it striked him as an odd number for such an important
plan to have such limited input. One reason there were few people there
tonight was because of the frustration residents of this community have had in
getting adequate response to their input from City staff. It had been stated
that there had been numerous meetings, numerous public hearings and there
had been numerous contacts with him and other members of the groups he
works with and the City Planning Staff.
-11-
There was an obvious discrepancy between the meetings they had and the
reception of the input they gave and at the meeting he attended with the
steering committee and the ready acquiescence to their suggestions that was
received and given by the Director of Planning.
He was surprised also that the P & Z did not have any questions immediately
of the City Staff. One of the things they were talking about on citizen input,
citizen input was one thing, people in the community were not all trained.
People in Planning, Development or Economics have their own lives they have
to do things that take alot of time just like the Board does. However, one
way that citizen input could be ignored and one reason that it did not surprise
him that P & Z did not have any more questions was that there were only
three alternatives presented. There was one plan with one written document
and that was the one before them that had been revised. The one that says
they don't do anything did not need a plan because it was obvious what that
said. The other option that says we were going to have open space he had
asked for documentation he asked for the written document on how that was
studied and that was studied and that was still forthcoming and he did not
know if it even exists.
It seemed funny to him that with all the information we had in this country
today that we did not have more alternatives than what had been presented up
to this point. Any plan that we adopt today needs to be forward looking. It
needs to be innovative, it needs to incorporate the views of the current
residents of Fort Collins and it needs to capture the intent of planning policies
reflected in City documents specifically titled the Goals and Objectives in Fort
Collins and Land Use Policies Plan of Fort Collins. Two documents that were
developed with the input of thousands of residents of the community. A plan
like the Harmony Corridor Plan must be interlinked to an overall master plan
that shows exactly where we want to be in the future and exactly what we
were going to took like as a City. We don't have that at this time.
Regardless of how many times it is stated that we do have a master plan.
There are two ways to define a master plan or comprehensive plan, 1.
Elements of a plan exist or there is truly an integrated master plan. We have
elements of a plan that are put together that are not linked. The Harmony
Corridor Plan is a nice plan by itself in some respects unless it is linked to a
plan for the whole City it just did not make sense. We cannot make valid
judgements on a plan unless we know how it relates to the overall development
of the City.
The Plan needs to be based on Planning assumptions and theories that were
measurable. He would like to speak specifically to Linda Ripley, Tom Peterson
and the Board in the respect to live, work and play. In the 1960's live, work
and play came out as a major philosophy was based on social policy and social
problems we were having at the time not on environmental questions. Right
,now as it exists, in most of the Planning documents that were presented to the
City and to the Planning and Zoning Board, as one of the lead in statements
that one of the goals was to facilitate to live, work, and play. He was all in
favor of living and working and playing in the same area if indeed it
accomplishes the objectives as was stated in the planning documents. That it
reduces trips, that it saves energy and all those different things. As stated by
the Director of Planning, Mr. Peterson, that this had been in effect for the last
ten years. If it has he raised the question to Mr. Peterson, could we have
documentation that actually shows, quantitatively, that this live, work and play
theory works. Mr. Peterson stated to him that it was obvious that it works.
He had not seen any evidence to the contrary. His question was that if it
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works so obviously and so well, then it would be very easy to pull together the
documentation and the quantitative statistics to show the reduction in trips and
that people do live, work and play after the developments were built. A letter
should have came to P & Z but he would like to ask again if that was not
true, if it was so obvious he would like to see the documentation. He did not
think any. member of the savings and loan industry today could go out and say
is your bank working and he responded, well Mr. President obviously it is
working. He thought if you were going to use that to base all your planning
philosophies on it needed to be documented and that was only fair to the
ai people .of this City.
"J e
Mr. Luthi asked if it was possible to do, to develop that documentation that
shows that live, work and play actually did work.
Chairman Klataske replied that they would discuss that with Mr. Peterson at a
later date, at this point at least we were hearing this on the Harmony
Corridor.
Mr. Luthi replied that it was directly related to the Harmony Corridor. It
states in there and was also stated by the Planner, Linda Ripley, that was
stated objectives of it so if she states that it was in the plan then it only
seemed reasonable to be able to address it at this meeting if it directly affects
the Harmony Corridor Plan.
The Harmony Corridor Plan needs to recognize the realities of the limited base.
Not only locally but globally. It needs to incorporate even a small bit of the
vast amount of information and working examples to detail how a city could
grown and develop when making the most efficient use of resources. The
Harmony Corridor Plan as it stands did not. The value of a Plan when
standing by itself had little validity unless considered in context with the
overall area it related to and that it would impact. As an example given the
current state of oil supplies, and the unknown future political realities in the
world it only made sense to have high density developments served by mass
transit which was a link to other areas of the City. Bikeways and footpaths
that were transportation corridors, not merely meandering scenic bikeways and
mandatory energy and water conservation provisions for all developments. It
was possible to put in mandatory provisions, it was simply a matter did they
want to. It only makes sense in this day and age of whats happening to do
SO.
On page 41 of the Land Use Policies Plan of Fort Collins it stated that mass
transit should be used at a tool which leads development patterns, rather that
following growth. We have chosen to ignore that policy and continue to build
and expand our street system and develop as if oil would be available in any
quantity and at low prices. He was not willing to go to war or suggest others
do so because we do not have the will or the courage to plan to conserve the
resources we already have. The whole world cannot drive like we do or
should we claim it was our right to refuse to act responsibly in terms of
transportation. If we want to put in mass transit into the Harmony Corridor
Plan and how it affects land use we can do that to. We should not wait to
put it into another plan that effectively takes out the citizens right to look at
this plan and say well how does that affect mass transit, how does that affect
air quality and how did it affect the whole road and street system. To say
that we could not put it into this plan but we could adopt it without it did
not make any sense. It was very clear to him that if we were going to be the
Choice City, we need to start making some intelligent choices. We need to
start making innovative choices now so we are not left behind in the future.
-13-
On the same page of the Land Use Policies Plan it also states that the City
should encourage by suitable incentives the use of non-polluting alternative
energy sources in all types of development. It also goes on to say that
important considerations should include, solar heating, a system of bike lanes,
envelope zoning for solar protection landscape standards and lot orientation.
Non of these were given consideration in the current plan. With conflicts over
water rights, supply and consumption patterns in the west, xeriscaping should
be mandatory in any new developments in the City. Landscaping standards in
the Harmony Corridor do not adequately address the real problems of the
=water supply that effect us all. It is reasonable when you look at things
intelligently to go ahead and start someplace. To say we can't start on the
Harmony Corridor Plan because no one else is doing it so we. will never do it,
did not make sense either.
California's North Marin Water District offers hook up fee rebates to builders
who follow the districts landscaping guidelines. Just in terms of residential
construction alone, in the second and third years of the program, 95% of new
townhouses and apartments met the landscaping guidelines and now use 40%
less outdoor water than their neighbors, surely we can do that in Fort Collins.
Why isn't this other readily available examples not included in the Harmony
Corridor Plan as it stands. In terms of economic development, the Rocky
Mountain Institute which we have in our own state has two plans that would
help the economies of local city's develop without bringing in any new
industries. One is called economic renewal, where they come in and look at
all the purchase decisions industries and businesses make, see which ones were
made outside the community and then bring in the industries or businesses that
would effect those so the money stays in the community. Another one was an
energy audit, several communities around the United States were saving
millions and millions of dollars annually by addressing energy dollars lost
outside the community. Two ways we could improve the economy for everyone
in the community not just a few people.
The Harmony Corridor Plan does have some good points, the superblock zoning
and setback proposals. They need to go further in both of these areas. The
current plan was a dressed up version of almost any development document
that would take us down the same road as any other city. Most of these
cities are not doing very well and the residents of those cities certainly cannot
be happy the problems they are now facing because of short sitedness in the
past. Some changes that were innovative would require both financial and
technical support in order to be accepted and effectively implemented. He
thinks that support exists and was available from members of this community
as well as the local and state government. He thought it was possible to come
up with a better plan. A plan that could serve as a model for the country.
We do not have to adopt a plan in haste just to have one on board. Let us
lead the way for a change and just not scramble to be the best of the
medi-ocre.
Linda Hopkins, Super Group, Inc., a property owner within the corridor. She
stated she posed a number of questions at a earlier hearing and she appreciate
that the concerns had been incorporated in many instances and will ultimately
have an affect on other key plans, specifically the Transportation Plan. She
sees this as an opportunity for citizen input, not a form for debate, so her
questions were rather specific and may not be appropriate at the juncture in
the policy plan, yet after some involvement and observing the implementation
of other policies, she had learned to ask these questions earlier.
-14-
She understood that neither the zoning nor specific boundaries were being
considered this evening, yet just because boundaries were not set the question
becomes more critical. How would the plans implementation through zoning
boundaries be set and when would that occur in the process and what was the
status of the existing master plans that were approved and those that were to
some degree under construction or phases of master plans within the corridor
have been initiated.
FACE 7'
In the desig*oguidelines there were a number of references to streetscape and
definitiongZMII Wow" the streets along the corridor would be designed. The
section spedffiently referred to collector and arterial intersections. The question
was, was that strickly referring to the intersection of collector and arterials or
were there additional policies for intersections of collectors and collectors, local
street intersections or just the design of intersections of arterials. How was
that going to be described in greater detail.
Similarly, the chart for the description of setbacks refers specifically to local
and collector streets. Properties that she represents were on arterials other than
Harmony Road and so she needs some additional information.
Ms. Ripley replied the question referring to the definition of collector arterial
and whether that means specifically collector and arterials or collector collector.
It does refer specifically to collector and arterial street intersections. Actually
more specific than that was that if refers to collector and Harmony Road
street intersections. Since we were delaying approval of the design guidelines
until next month, she could try to clarify that a little better in the document
so other people did not get confused.
Similarly, setbacks for arterial streets other than Harmony Road were not
defined in the plan. They would be set during the development review process
for projects along those arterial streets.
Scott Mason, who lives in the corridor stated he would like to respond on
behalf of Citizen Planners. He stated Citizen Planners appreciates the
opportunity to provide citizen input on this plan. Citizen Planners have been
involved with Harmony Corridor Plan since its early stages. Members of the
Citizen Planners had attended all the open houses, public hearings and 4 of the
working committee meetings. To this point in time they felt that their input
has been largely ignored. Their feelings were based upon the evolution of the
plan. There were several policies and points that Citizen Planners agreed were
positive. These points have existed since the first draft. Policies that staff
included in the earlier draft gave them hope that the input was being heard
and included however, former land use policies three and four were eliminated.
Citizen Planners supports the targeting of the Harmony Corridor for industrial
employment. They believe the people of Fort Collins want higher paying jobs
and benefits and the opportunity for growth and advancement. The
:underemployment problem in Fort Collins was well documented. The current
plan was largely written to standardize design and landscape guidelines with
minimal restrictions on land use. Plans and policies were not strong enough to
encourage high paying industry. The incentives offered were ineffective and
the list of targeted industries was too vague. On the other hand the plan did
too little to discourage unwanted land uses. The vision of the employment
park was not likely to be achieved by a plan without teeth. A plan without
teeth would most likely produce a vision of South College with oak trees.
Citizen Planners sees this plan as largely a marketing plan and not a land use
plan.
-15-
They had all received a formal response letter from Citizen Planners so he
would not address each of the issues. He just wanted to restate a few. In
terms of the gateway corridors, Citizen Planners supports continuing the
planning effort concentrating on the gateway. They also support the
establishment of a city wide space aquisition fund to purchase land or rights
in this corridor and other desirable areas in Fort Collins.
They feel the 'City needs to take a more aggressive stand to promote
alternative transportation modes such a transit, bicycles and carpooling to
minimize traffW icodgestion and air pollution. Incentives or mandates should
be included to increase industrial and business densities to allow for efficient
transit. It is unfortunate that Fort Collins enters into another high pollution
season and thousands of U.S. troops were poised to defend oil fields that we
were about ready to approve a major area plan that lacks good transportation
planning.
The concept of designating an employment park zone was a step in the right
direction to attract desirable industries and businesses. But as devised, its
purpose was largely aesthetic and not economic. The underlined purposes of
the EP zone ' and administrative review seem to be to facilitate the City Staff
to better market private land by 1) mandating design guidelines 2) reducing
street oversizing fees 3) reducing public review of proposed plans. Such
incentives were likely to be insufficient by themselves to attract the desired
businesses. Conversely, Citizen Planners believes the public purposes of the EP
zone should be to target, attract targeted basic industries to help the
community's economy. To maintain high visual and environmental quality and
finally to encourage land use patterns and density that reduce vehicular traffic
and maintain the function of Harmony Road as a major arterial.
The administrative review of the final plans in the EP zone appear to be a
method of reducing citizen involvement while concentrating more power and
negotiating capabilities with City Staff. They do not support public hearings
being conducted in the Planning Directors office. The decision making power
should not be removed from the Planning and Zoning Board and given to the
director of Planning. Citizen Planners see little benefit to the administrative
review process and encourage the board to eliminate this component.
Citizen Planners generally support the design guidelines. Citizen Planners
encourages larger set backs as needed to preserve the views and the contiguity
with the existing businesses in the corridor and the guidelines should include
design standards for commuter bikeways and other facilities for alternative
transportation modes. Carpool, parking lots, bike racks near entrances and
pedestrian immenities.
Mr. Eckman stated he would like to respond to one question the Ms. Hopkins
had brought up which was the appropriate time for comments regarding the
.rezoning of the 541 acres. Tonight was also the hearing for that question
He wanted to make that clear.
Ed Stoner, who served on the Steering Committee with a couple of Citizen
Planners and a couple of property owners. He thought the Swets could have
their animals designated as an endangered species to get around some of the
regulations that were going to imposed on them. The original intent was the
property owners came up with the suggestion as Linda had talked about to try
to make everything cohesive out there, to make all property owners have the
same kind of set backs and all had to be consistent with the same type of
berming and landscaping. He thought this was unique for property owners to
-16-
get together and do this although it did take some arm turning for a few of
the property owners that were much more independent and not into the
planning mode and would just prefer to have their property zoned IL or IP
and have it done. He thought there was enough convincing done that by
having a good plan out there that everyone could live with and everyone
shared in the aesthetics that they would all gain value and maybe that was a
marketing technique that they eluded to, but value gained was also going to be
a benefit to the citizens of Forr Collins. He thought credit was due to the
property owners that had got together out there to do this.
,_.c ai_
In talking about the EP zone, Alvsy `did have these discussions with Gina
Jannett and Hal Worth on how they could encourage industrial development out
there and they got to a point of how did they discourage retail. It came down
to the fact that there was 1900 acres yet to be developed. If you look at the
amount of industrial space that was absorbed on an annual basis, you may
have 30 to 40 acres a year that was put into industrial space at the most.
That would equate to 50 years of absorbing that space out there. Also
testimony had .been given to him by people out there that there were people
out there that ,needed support services. Rather having to come all the way
back into town, it takes alot of driving for them to accomplish their business
lunches and that type of thing.
The EP zone besides the advantages that Ms. Ripley talked about also had an
advantage to the future neighbors that would be coming out there because of
the designated uses or the anticipated uses or those that were pre approved
will then have the knowledge of the neighbors that these were the type of uses
that they may be next to rather than all of a sudden this was a surprise you
have a high tech use next to you. Some of the things that were talked about
that the EP zone did not go far enough he totally agree with and another role
of Fort Collins, Inc. were not involved in inducing, encouraging, incentive or
anything to retail uses, it was strickly for base industry. He would be tickled
to death if the whole thing was strickly zoned for industrial uses. In all
reality that could not possibly happen, even the industry wanted to have some
support retail and services. He thought the neighbors having the knowledge of
what was going to be next to them was an important aspect of having some of
those uses predetermined so they would know what types of things might
happen out there.
Giving an example of the street oversizing fees as shown by staff, he had one
done for a company that did not come here, they went to Pueblo for 6 million
dollars worth of incentives. They had a work up done on what the street
oversizing fee would be out there, it was on 20 acres and they were going to
build a 125,000 s.f. building and the fee was going to be $140,800 with the
existing fee. Assuming 5 acres of impervious surface on 20 acres, the fee in
the EP zone would be #36,700. That would be an incentive to them. The
other side of that is we don't even have that fee in any other towns so you
:really aren't giving me anything. They still feel that was a fee that they
weren't used to paying, An example of how people were going around this
thing as far as the City was concerned was he was dealing with a company
that was wanting to buy 6 acres and wanted to put up a 30,000 s.f. building.
The fees were to such an extent not only street oversizing but storm sewer fee
because it was based on acreage, they decided on going with 3 acres so they
would not have to pay the $21,000 dollars in street oversizing fees. This was
a company that they would not offer incentives to. In shortening the process
he also agreed to some extent the shortening of the process offered was not
going to be that big of difference as far as time for a potential industry. He
agreed that the EP zone would be a zone that he would like to see adopted in
-17-
the future only for purposes of trying to identify areas that would be more
attractive and for a user that was targeted and they could identify the targets
and be more specific with the targets and that was something that could be
expanded in the future as it relates to right now with the administrative
review after a preliminary approval, having served on the board and having
received .comments previously, a preliminary approval in the City of Fort
Collins was the equivalent of a final approval in any other community.
Obviously as stated in the document that upon the Planning Director receiving
the final approval if you as a Board had put conditions upon that it would
have to come back before them. Pfutthe're were no conditions at all and
something had changed more than ot% something that was that big of
descrepency that then therefore it would have to come back to them again.
The Planning Director if he felt uncomfortable, could go ahead and remand it
back to the Board. As a person that works to try and attract base job
industry in town, having that administrative review would be an advantage to
him. It would be another tool besides the EP zone that you could talk about
that within this zone, if you were to come here, there would be a preliminary
approval, an if everything was met at that time, you know you could start
making their plans as long as they didn't change anything. An administrative
review or final review just becomes a technical review to make sure that they
had met everything that they had approved on the preliminary review. He did
want them to think what the null alternative would be and he understood what
Mr. Luthi was talking about, an overall master plan for the City. He had heard
that for a long time. We still need to go on with planning, and if it was
planning in small segments, eventually they would all be interfaced although
realizing that some would be outdated. To stay around and wait for an
overall City plan where everyone determines where we want to be in the year
2000 or 2010. We were letting an opportunity go by where we have maybe 9
property owners involved that were wanting to participate and he thought we
should take advantage of the situation at the City and have a real nice
planned entrance to our City that could later be intertwined into an overall
master plan.
Peter Kast, with GT Land, stated they have 4 properties on Harmony Road, 3
which are affected by the plan. They have been involved since Bob Everitt
had called this group together and suggested that a Harmony Corridor Plan
would be something that they should consider. They have generally been
impressed with the process except for the length that it has taken. When they
originally sat down this was going to be done in October but it was 1989. It
has taken considerable longer than originally forecast. He thought that they
were generally supportive of the way it was coming out. He thought the
benefits of having a uniform entrance into the City, a positive designation for
targeted industry were both important. One of the things he thought the Plan
still lacks was the jurisdiction of Harmony Road itself. The current
designation was a state highway, from one who has to deal with it, a long and
tedious process to put it nicely. They had just got back an access permit that
.they submitted about 15 months ago just to change one access point into the
Harmony Market PUD that was under construction now. The States was kind
of predispositioned to not believe that the medians should have the kind of
impact they believe they should in terms of planning and landscaping and
design. He thought without the City taking a strong stand and working
diligently with the State to take over designation and he did not mean we
should do it at all costs, he thought there was some trade-offs they could work
with the Highway Department hopefully where this would become a non -cost
issue. He believed that Harmony Road should be under the City's jurisdiction.
-18-
One other item was the evolution of the design guidelines and here he was at
odds with the City Attorney. It seems like we began with design guidelines
and now they have evolved into mandatory design guidelines. The idea
originally was to set up a purpose statement that everyone agreed to and then
you had all these ingredients you could throw into the pot and let the Board
decide whether those things would fill the purpose statement or not. It seemed
to him that was an intelligent way to go whether thatsicould be handled from
a legal point of view, Paul was increasingly putting hisn is doubt. He thought
the spirit of a lot of the planning and land use decisions in Fort Collins were
made by this Board and they in a lot of cases have she oability to determine
whether something meets the intended purpose and het3iought they had done
that well. Particularly the developments on Harmony Road reflect tasteful and
appealing architecture and landscape and urban design and he would like to
see that spirit continue through these design guidelines as much as possible.
He would like to avoid a situation where they have mandatory situations and
review procedure but even with a good plan, you have to come through and
ask for waivers of some of the mandatory aspects even though it was
universally agreed that it was a good plan.
Eldon Ward, has worked for a number of property owners in the area and was
Part of the Harmony Corridor effort for the past 15 or 16 months stated he
just wanted to say that they have been at this a long time, it was not a
perfect plan, he did not get everything he wanted either. He thought that you
can't wait until every possible question had been answered, every issue about
traffic and the environment and land use and economic impacts has been done
or we simply will not get anywhere. He thought in his opinion it was time to
move ahead and he thought that it was pretty likely that they would find
things that need to be amended as we get into this as some of the other
transportation and environmental planning efforts that are going on go
forward. Those would probably have effects on this plan but he did not think
that we should continue to say we should hold off until all these other studies
were done. He thought that you have an opportunity to do something very
nice on Harmony Road which if you set aside all the other rhetoric, that was
what they started out to do, to move forward and make Harmony Road a nice
entry into town and if they could address a number of other issues along the
way so be it. He thought we should avoid getting bogged down and move
forward. He thinks we will be wanting to refine some design guidelines,
whether they should be mandatory or not. Those questions were very hard to
answer in the abstract, you can bog down any planning effort by thinking
what if this happens, what if that happens and he thinks that they have
studied this for 15 months and he thought it was time to move forward and
see how it works and come back with an amendment if they need to rather
than trying to answer every abstract question they could think of at this point.
Member Walker stated that he thought basically as a plan this was some what
a vision statement, it was a vision of what the City desires in the corridor.
He thought that any vision statement means that what you are hoping to
achieve is outside your grasp at this time, thats what visionaries were all
about. He thought that it was a useful process and he thought the time they
spent over the last year had engaged the City in a useful public debate. It
has heightened the focus on this area. It has helped to pull some ideas
together and he thought that was what the plan represents right now and in
that sense he thought they got something that perhaps again, getting something
into a form where it was a little bit more concrete that it was 15 months ago
in terms of what they wanted to do out there. Again it was not perfect but
then again it was a vision. He thought that some of the things they needed to
consider were in the area of the gateway there was some concern about whats
.19.
going on out there, again it was a vision statement and he thought it was well
stated that the City has a vision about what could possibly happen out there.
There was obviously some practical realities and legalities that don't allow the
City to move ahead on that and yet he thought we had to be realistic and
Fort Collins is a growing City and this was a major corridor and we had to
recognize that as growth occurs, things would change in that area and they
were trying to have a public debate here that starts putting some shape to that
and not just let it happen in some kind of a willy nilly fashion. He believe
that some of his disappointments were that perhaps that it was not strong
enough in some of the areas he felt were important,,,, But then given the
diversity of opinion they had heard here tonight it was understandable why
that was. They have alot of different points of view and they were trying to
pull them into something and like any good political document, when you start
the compromise process, nobody walks away happy but everyone feels as
thought they could live with it. He thought they have started out with a
strong land use statement in terms of what kind of industry they want there.
There seemed to be some disagreement and now we have what he would
consider not a . very strong land use statement. It suggests that we would like
to have certain; kinds of things occur but it certainly did not limit it and
again maybe that was reflective of the City and the citizens and how they
view how we should plan. For example, the idea of the EP zone was a good
one but you get into technical complications there, you have a EP zoning that
seemed to him at first look you could argue, well this has returned to some
traditional land use zoning, and then you start looking at it and it isn't by
any means. First of all we allow the PUD process as we do with other parts
of the City so in that sense it was a zone that we would like to have these
things but will consider any use. Then you look further and you say well, we
have got the procedure when you start looking at it, it gets very complicated
with the EP zoning. You still have to come before the Board, the
administrative review process in the directors office is a public meeting, an
issue that would be very contentious you might say. He did not think the
director's office would be adequate to handle the turnout. He questioned how
that could work. We have a process that you start marketing it, saying this is
an EP zone and this is the way it works, he was not sure we have accomplish
much there. Basically, he thought we were trying to combine predictability
and flexibility in land use planning and it seemed to him that was difficult if
not impossible to achieve. We still have that argument of predictability and
flexibility and he did not think it had been resolved at least to his
satisfaction. In terms of the design guidelines he thought we had a well
thought out set of standards and guidelines. He would disagree that we should
keep these flexible. He thought that as a Board member he did not want to
have to review each project, something like that could be handled through the
planning staff. As a Planning and Zoning Board member he would prefer to
pass these guidelines and assume they would be taken care of in the review
process that takes place. By and large he thought that while he has all these
reservations he thought the process had been a useful one and be it as it may
what you may consider about the vision we had created here it was a useful
starting point and he would complement everyone that had been involved in
the process to this point.
Member O'Dell stated that she sat on the same working committee as some of
the people who spoke and including a couple members of the Citizen Planners
and first she would like to say that in the past she had really been pleased
with a lot of input that the Citizen Planners had given them on specific issues
and it was discouraging to feel that they felt that they were not heard because
she sat there and listened to what a lot of them had to say and she felt like
some of the input then gave back to the staff to be incorporated into the plan
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came directly from them. She thought they should recognize that they did
have an input and that your not a group that nobody listens to and to think
of themselves that way was not real positive. She thought that what Eldon
Ward said that none of them got what they wanted was true and she thought
that compromises as her fellow Board member stated that was the way
compromises work and she thought what they came up with was a plan that
this Board could use, a plan that would result in a pleasing look to the
Harmony Corridor, something developers could use and hopefully something
that would indeed attract business and the type of clean industry that the City
wants. Lastly she would like to speak to the property owners, Mr. Swets and
Mr. Johnson who live out on the east side of I-25. She thought that their
property, even though was included in this plan, the final determination on
what was going to happen had not been made. Certainly the gateway was
something they were going to keep looking at and their input was still going to
be important and she hoped they would continue to talk to them as they look
at the gateway. She thought part of the reason, as Tom Peterson suggested,
looked at your areas at all was to look at the entire gateway area which was
the four sections of the intersection of the freeway. To take it a step further
in some ways this plan may some way in the future this plan may protect
them from each other because they will not always own that land, maybe their
families will but maybe their families might have some other ideas and she
thought there was a way to help them and protect and what they have rather
than allow a lot of uses they wouldn't want. If they will continue to talk and
let them know how they feel that would really help.
Member Strom stated one thing he wanted to go a little further with in terms
of citizen input from various sides of the issues they have dealt with on
Harmony Corridor planning process that he thought that the fact that they did
not see the specifics that they would like to see in this plan did not necessary
mean that they would not see more having to do with these issues as we go
along. Many of them had been involved also in the LDGS Audit over the last
six months or so and there was a whole laundry list of things to come out of
that process including things such as looking more seriously at resource
conservation, in addition to that the Transportation Plan was ongoing. There
would be a much more detailed look taken through that process of both transit
opportunities and bikeway planning. The fact that they haven't necessarily
wrapped their specifics into this plan did not necessarily mean they haven't
been listened to or even that nothing was going to happen to them from this
point forward.
Generally speaking he thought that this was a good compromise effort and
thought there was some very positive things coming out of it. He had been
involved in it for most of the 15 months that it had been ongoing and it
certainly looks to him that it was a positive direction to take for one of the
major entryways to the City.
.Member Cottier asked if they were voting on the EP zoning district as Paul
stated.
Ms. Ripley stated they would be voting on the Harmony Corridor Plan and the
second item was recommending to City Council the adoption of the Harmony
Corridor Design Guidelines. Staff prefers that you defer that for a month.
Resolution No. 12, recommending to City Council the adoption of the EP,
zoning district as an amendment to the zoning ordinance, not rezoning the
property, just establishing the zoning district. Yes, they were recommending
that the Board make a recommendation to Council this evening. Resolution No.
13 recommends to City Council the adoption of the Administrative Guidelines
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for the EP, Employment Park Zoning District, that would also be considered
tonight. And then recommending to City Council the actual rezoning of
property, again Staff recommends delaying that for at least a month to give
property owners a longer time to understand how it affects them.
Member Cottier stated that she realized we were trying to address resource
conservation things in other avenues through the LDGS that have come up in
their review of the LDGS. She did not see why they should not put stronger
statements pertaining to water conservation in the Design Guidelines. She did
not think the fact that it had not been done elsewhere was grounds for not
doing it in this particular case or in any plan that they develop from now on.
She supported in general the plan concept for the Harmony Corridor. She
thought it was a really good idea to get the Employment Park District out
there and hopefully that can be more conducive to encouraging employment
park type development out there. The type of targeted industries that they all
want to see go out there. She was concerned about the gateway and a little
troubled about.including land in our plan that was outside the Urban Growth
Area that requires coordination with the County and when that coordination
had not even begun. She thought it to be backwards for us to be saying that
we want to have this be part of our gateway concept, this is what we see
happening there but until such time as we have even begun to talk about
agreements out there we have no authority. She thought it was a little
misleading in creating some expectations that we were not in a position to
enforce. She did have some questions about the potential of extending the
Urban Growth Area boundary out there. She agreed with the importance of
the gateway and she was not sure how that should be best addressed but she
was troubled with what was in the plan now and when she reads it the plan
was assuming that we were going with Alternative A.
Ms. Ripley clarified that the three alternatives that were shown at Open
Houses and have been talked about tonight were not solutions. They were
alternative directions. One direction the Null Alternative was to forget it and
just let it develop how it develops, not plan ahead. Another direction was to
say, this is so special its so important, lets launch a campaign to buy that
whole area. Another alternative Alternative A said lets work together with the
jurisdictions involved in a cooperative effort to see what we could make
happen there. Those were three separate directions. We got a lot of input
that said members of the community were not comfortable to let existing
jurisdictions and the existing situation govern how that area developed over
time. They felt that there was some reason to do some planning ahead and
now was the time to do it not, in five or ten years when our existing City
limits got closer to the Urban Growth Area boundary. There was some support
for launching a campaign for buying it but very little. Staff chose the middle
of the road alternative as an approach, not as a solution by any means.
All that Alternative A does is establish a direction to proceed and all that the
.Harmony Corridor Plan did was to say additional planning makes sense in this
area. We realize that we do not have the governmental authority to enforce
anything, but we don't have anything to enforce at this time. We don't know
what the outcome of that cooperative planning effort would be at this point.
Member Cottier
stated that helped and she thought
that the property owners
out there need
to realize that this was much more
undeveloped that it
may
appear to be.
Statements in the Plan such as,
"for Alternative A
this
development senerio place certain development restrictions on the property"
and
never defines
what those development restrictions
were and that was
the
direction they
were following by following the Alternative A approach.
She
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thought that it implies intent on their part what was beyond what they had
planned or conceived of at this point. She thought the plan was progress and
it had been years and years since they had been talking about doing something
in the Harmony Corridor since there was lots of land out there and they have
the opportunity to prevent another Highway 14 and for that reason they should
support it at this point and with all the concerns the Board have and the
citizens have they could be rest assured that as things begin to be defined they
would be very carefully looking at this and trying to be sure that nothing they
say tonight was violated in the future.
Member Carroll stated that this plan was presented to the Board about the time
he came on the Board a year and a half ago. It was the first plan that he
really became familiar with. When he first saw it, it was outlined in rather
general form and being new to the Board he thought to himself this was
rather simple, we've got an undeveloped road out there. Simply develop some
guidelines as how we want it to develop. It may be somewhat controversial
but it shouldn't take too long or be too complicated and we could probably
come up with a plan that lays this out pretty specifically for the future. His
education as to,the planning process took place along with this plan over the
last eighteen months and what he found was that planning was not quite as
simple as he thought it was. One thing he did realize was that when
something was in place and was built we were pretty much finished. If you
drive along some of the older parts of Fort Collins where we had old zoning
which was "use by right" if it is zoned commercial you could build a building
there. If its zoned high residential you could build apartments and all you
need is a permit. He thought that everyone would agree that there was areas
that buildings that did not look very nice and did not coordinate with their
neighbors. We could not go back now and tell someone that their building
really did not fit in the plan that they would like to have for this street,
please demolish it so we can build a better building. Right now we were
faced with a great opportunity with Harmony in that it is very undeveloped
between Timberline Road and the Interstate. There were many things in the
implementation that he would like to see already done. A definitive list of
targeted industries could be established, he would like to have that right now.
He would like to have the gateway plan adopted right now. A City should
adopt a Superblock planning requirement, that was addressed. A new
development review process should be considered for targeted land uses within
the Harmony Corridor. He would like to have that. He was afraid if they
wait for a substantial period of time, to develop every one of these issues it
would be five or ten years down the road and Harmony will be developed.
Over the past 18 months, we as a Board have become increasingly involved in
this process. They have had worksessions with staff and have asked lots and
lots of questions some intelligent, some not. They have received many letters,
comments at worksessions. Letters that have been addressed to them, some of
them put more emphasis on them than others. His concern was to get
something in place so there was predictability so we can move ahead with the
.implementations act and develop this area before it starts to develop itself.
There were much more strict design requirements in this area than you would
find in other parts of town. Originally they did not exist at all. Again he
felt, like Ms. O'Dell, that all comments were accepted and he did not view this
as a x versus y process and he thought that there were many areas where
everyone agreed and there were areas where people did not agree. Comments
were made by the Board and some revisions made by staff in some of the
areas. Some areas some of them did not agree with others maybe changes were
made or not made. He thought as an element of the City of Fort Collins
Comprehensive Plan we need to get it in place and we need to move forward
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with the implementation process which at that point would put flesh on the
bones of the plan and tell them how Harmony Corridor would develop in the
future.
Chairman Klataske stated that this was a very visionary plan for Fort Collins.
When we have a group of owners out there, this whole Harmony Corridor was
not under one ownership. He had been throughout the state and region
through business and he could not think of another place in Colorado that we
could have a comprehensive development like this where we would be under
different ownership. He had seen similar plans where one developer owned the
entire area and their vision may be similar to this but for separate ownership
this was truly unique. The cooperation had been phenomenal with the citizens
and land owners, city input, the Board. There were items in this plan that he
did not feel went far enough, he would like to see more restrictions. He
would like to see different things and he could say that he was not going to
do anything because it did not include everything he wanted. There may be
some things that may have gone too far, but overall for the Fort Collins, for
the vision he perceived that the citizens have for Fort Collins for the future,
he thought this plan went along way.
Member O'Dell moved to recommend to City Council approval of the Harmony
Corridor Plan and incorporation into the City's Comprehensive Plan.
Member Strom seconded the motion.
Motion was approved 7-0.
Member Cottier moved to approve item PZ90-12, recommending to City Council
the EP, Employment Park Zoning District as an amendment to the City Zoning
Ordinance.
Member Strom seconded the motion.
Motion was approved 7-0.
Member Strom moved for approval of item PZ90-13, recommending to City
Council the adoption of Administrative Guidelines for the EP, Employment
Park Technical Plan Review.
Member O'Dell seconded the motion.
Motion was approved 5-2 with Walker and Gorman voting no.
There was no other business.
Meeting was adjourned at 11:00 p.m.
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