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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAir Quality Advisory Board - Minutes - 02/22/2005MINUTES CITY OF FORT COLLINS AIR QUALITY ADVISORY BOARD REGULAR MEETING 281 N. COLLEGE AVE. February 22, 2005 For Reference: Linda Stanley, Chair 493-7225 Eric Hamrick, Council Liaison 226-4824 Lucinda Smith, Staff Liaison 224-6085 Board Members Present Jassen Bowman, Kip Carrico, Dave Dietrich, Eric Levine, Ken Moore, Nancy York Board Members Absent John Long, Linda Stanley, Cherie Trine Staff Present Natural Resources Department: Melissa Moran, Lucinda Smith, Liz Skelton Guests None The meeting was called to order at 5:38 p.m. Minutes With the following changes, the minutes of the January 20, 2005 meeting were unanimously approved: • Bowman (Page 7, 5`h Bullet, 2"a Sentence, Action Plan for Sustainability): Replace "ISO 1400" with "ISO 14001". • Moore (Page 3, 1" Bullet, Introduction): Change "I've been doing emissions testing since 1980, when we started working on cars" to "I've been doing emissions testing since 1980, when we started doing emissions tests." • Levine (Page 3, previous Bullet, 15` Sentence, Introduction): Replace the word "six" with "the„ • Levine (Page 7, Last Bullet, Action Plan for Sustainability): Change "how do we look at the way the City operates •if it doesn't get measured?" to "if it doesn't get measured it doesn't get done". • Levine (Page 9, 9`h Bullet, 2"a Sentence, Inspection/Maintenance Update) Replace "and instead on" with "and instead of'. • Levine (Page 9, 91h Bullet, 7 h Sentence, Inspection/Maintenance Update): Replace "In economic times" to "In different economic times". • Levine (Page 12, 5`h Bullet): Should be attributed to Cherie Trine, not Linda Stanley. Introductions Members of the board introduced themselves to our new member, Dave Dietrich. • Levine: I'm Eric Levine. I was elected vice -chair last month, and I've come up in the world very fast! Last month was also my first board meeting in about two years; I had served as the board's first vice -chair and second chair previously and spent 8 years on Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 2 of 16 the board. I'm a professional violinist. I have some engineering background. I've been involved in environmental groups and air quality issues for about 16 years. • Moore: I'm Ken Moore and I am a native of Fort Collins. Other than the 8 years I spent in the Navy, I've lived all my life here in Fort Collins. I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy and the last 4.5 years of that time I worked on radiation detection. I own Nelsen's Auto Tech Center. It's been family -operated since 1947. I started working there in 1967. I've been back since 1977, when I got out of the Navy. I'm a certified emissions technician. I've been doing emissions tests on cars since the program started in 1981. I'm a heart patient and appreciate good, clean air. • Carrico: I'm Kip Carrico and I am a Research Scientist at CSU. I come from an Engineering background and have been involved with air quality research for about 10 years. I'm a new member and looking forward to helping out in any way that I can. • Bowman: I'm Jassen Bowman, also a new board member. Previously I was on the Larimer County Board of Building Code Appeals, and I did a very brief stint on the City's Electric Board. I spent 5 years in the Navy as a Nuclear Power Electrician. So, by trade I'm an electrician, by degree I'm a nuclear engineer, by practicality I'm a jack- of-all-trades! I'm a part-time air quality consultant with Retec Group and I've been doing a lot of work lately on the Poudre River Mediation Project at the Excel site. I own a janitorial service and a web design firm here in town. • York: I'm Nancy York and I'm a native to Fort Collins as well. I graduated with a degree in occupational therapy, and I've been a citizen activist for a long time and around air quality issues since the early 1970s. I own a business for event poster distribution all over Northern Colorado and Southern Wyoming and I've done that for about 25 years. I've been on the board 10 years. • Dietrich: I'm Dave Dietrich; obviously a new board member. I've been in the environmental profession since the early 1970s. I moved to Fort Collins in 1979 to pursue a PhD at CSU. After getting that I started an environmental consulting firm called Air Resource Specialists. I served on the original air quality task force. The original thing started when Anheuser-Busch came in and we reviewed their permits. It evolved into a task force and I served on that until the early 1990s. I'm anxious to do what I can to help. I think I have a broad background and should be able to understand the issues. • Smith: I'm Lucinda Smith, the staff liaison for the board. I've worked for the City for about 9 years in air quality. I have a master's degreein air resource management and a BA in geology. I haven't done any geology since about 1985 though. In my job, I work on primarily on reducing motor vehicle emissions and greenhouse gas reductions. I enjoy working with the board too. • Moran: I'm Melissa Moran. I do marketing, public relations and outreach for the City. I have a BA in communications and a master's degree in technical communications. I've been working for the City for about 2 years. I work''/2-time with Lucinda and the air quality group and my other %mime assignment is to work out of the City Mangers Office on more a more citywide level. • Skelton: I'm Liz Skelton and I'm an administrative secretary with the Natural Resources Department. I've worked there for about 1.5 years. I'm a CSU student so I only work part-time in the afternoons because I go to class in the morning. My major is Computer Information Systems, and that is under the business program. Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 3 of 16 Air Quality Survey Summary and Outreach Discussion The board members received a copy of the preliminary results prior to the meeting. Lucinda Smith summarized the results and answered questions from the board. • Levine: Before we start, can I ask how has the City historically used these surveys as far as budgeting, outreach, advertising, where to spend the money, how is the message refined, and how is it attempted to influence behavior? • Smith: The survey has evolved over the years; a decade ago we were doing four different surveys. We were doing an indoor air quality, a general outdoor air quality, a wood smoke and possibly a radon survey. We then condensed it down to two and for a period of time we were alternating a biannual indoor air quality survey and an outdoor survey. Most recently it's been condensed to one survey. One of the things that we use these results for is to tell us what avenues people get information from. We can see consistently that the Utility bill insert and the local newspaper are two main avenues where people get information. We know from another survey that the Coloradoan and the Fort Collins Weekly are the two most commonly read newspapers. So, we've not developed campaigns and outreach budgets specifically around survey results, but we always try to be informed by the survey results. For example, we've seen historically in the survey that concerns about obscured mountain views and the brown cloud are the biggest impacts that air pollution has on citizens. That prompted us to do the brown cloud photo contest that we did 5 years ago and we did a visibility display that we took around to major employers in Fort Collins and it resided out here in the hallway the rest of the time. • Moran: We did use it more - not necessarily where to spend advertising dollars - but more in the message development and what things to focus on. So in the last year we focused on visibility, the brown cloud and health issues. There is a piece that people mentioned that they are willing to make small changes for air quality, so that was incorporated. But, not specifically for advertising dollars. • Smith: We also use the results to estimate wood smoke emissions. It provides our best estimate. We will be looking at that again possibly this next month. As you know, the trend had been going down until the last survey, which showed an up `tic'. • Levine: I didn't know that it was the best tool for wood smoke. • Smith: I think it's definitely better than State estimates, but it's not perfect. As we talk through this, more examples will come to mind. We also did look at the most recent past survey results when updating the air quality policy plan. We had summary that Zoe Shark put together of that last survey results and it was one of the additional things that we kept in mind. • Levine: It also came in handy with the Air Quality Commission hearing. • Smith: It was invaluable to be honest. It was one of the two main things that swayed the commission to extend the program one more year. So there is a variety of ways that we use the survey results. • Smith (Re: Outreach TV Commercials): How many people saw the commercials? (three people raised their hand). OK, 26% of people said they did on the survey. One thing that we don't really have is a good context for this response. John Stokes said that the Nature Conservancy did a study and they had a 6% national recognition. Then they did a multimillion dollar outreach campaign using Paul Newman and it jumped up to 25%. So 26% might not sound like a lot but we don't honestly have a sense of what Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 4 of 16 recognition for something like this should be. So it could be viewed as positive. We will do more research as to what you would expect for a TV or radio campaign. • Dietrich: How often and where were they placed? • Moran: It was a two -tiered approach. We focused on it in spring and then again in the fall. So we hit it for about 4 weeks on various cable stations, Cable 27 (which they are still playing on) and some radio stations. • Dietrich: Are these public service announcements or paid? • Moran: They are paid. • Dietrich: Do you have an idea how often in one month they were run? • Moran: I don't know that I have an average offhand. It was important for us to make sure we were in place that was visible. We knew at that time a lot of people were watching Trading Spaces. We specifically put a commercial in that spot. I could tell you that on the Weather Channel we did a lot of advertising and averaged about 10 per day. But it was cheap to advertise there. • Smith: A bit more background about that for the new members; we developed that campaign based in part on the past survey and also on feedback we got at two different focus groups that we did with citizens. What we heard was people need to know about the air quality and then small changes that they can make to help improve it. Within each of the two series there was one commercial that talked about air quality and tried to focus on the brown cloud and the next two commercials had to do with small choices. Car maintenance, walk for errands and carpool were the three things we had. And then that theme repeated in the fall. The first series was 10 days of "this is what the air quality is" and then 20 days worth of behavior changes. We did try to use the survey and focus groups to start with the basics. • Bowman: From a marketing background, as far as percentages, when you are doing a print or radio marketing campaign that involves an offer, getting a 2% response is doing well. You are beating market averages. When you are doing something more along the lines of branding, which is more what this would be, a 26% recognition rate is incredible for a short, small, local campaign. On a national scale, when a new company starts up and they do a short marketing campaign like that, if they get a 5-10% brand recognition rate, that is doing very good. • Smith: That is very helpful to know. • Levine: A lot of this is surprising. We got 921 returns out of 1500 sent out. That alone is amazing. • York: I was surprised about the billboards at railroad tracks. • Smith: I am very surprised as well. You may know that the City is very reluctant to use billboard advertising. We had to go to great lengths to justify this request. This seemed like the right message and the right place. We got an OK to try it for a pilot period of 6 months and when you look at this response, it seems like maybe we should be using billboard advertising for car -related messages. • Moore: I drove by them every day. • York: Were these established billboards? • Smith: Yes. It rotated to different locations and stayed at each location for a month. The locations were all within the proximity of a railroad track. That seems very positive to me. Later, we will get to a survey result that says something like 20% consistently turn off their engine and 40% occasionally do; which I can hardly believe — Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 5 of 16 I don't observe that when I am at railroad tracks. We do plan to do a follow-up on the ground survey. That suggests to me that if we have another car -related message we should consider a billboard. • Carrico: How about the cost effectiveness? Can you quantify how much it cost to do one versus the other? • Moran: Actually that was a relatively inexpensive campaign for the response. It was a total of $2,700 dollars, which included $300-$400 for the actual billboard creation. • Carrico: How does that compare to the TV campaign? • Moran: The TV and radio we probably spent $12,000. • Carrico: About 5 times more. • Bowman: I'm biased being in print -media side, but one of the things I've noticed with my clients is the TransFort bus benches are extremely inexpensive. The City would basically be renting them back from themselves. It is incredibly effective. Granted, they are not always at the most convenient locations, but if you wanted to do something extremely cheaply and wanted a mass market blitz — the bus benches and the buses themselves are incredibly effective. • Levine: I would think that on the bus benches the content is limited, just due to the physical characteristics? • Bowman: Yes. But that program was incredibly effective for the Utilities Department during the drought and getting the conservation message out. • Levine: I would love the City to purchase some space on the back of busses to get rid of those Markley Motors ads selling their giant SUVs! ...(laughs) • Smith: That is an ironic message there. • Levine (Re: Where people get their information about air quality): Utility bill inserts has always been consistently high. Do we have to fight other departments to get something in there? • Smith: We have to get in line, and put in our request. • Levine: How difficult is that? • Moran: Well considering that I'm editor ... (laughs) It's not that difficult to get an article at least once a quarter if not twice. Beyond that might be difficult, just depending on what else is in there. The focus is changing this year though. • Smith: I think we will use it more than we have. Last year we only used it for wood smoke, the gas can exchange, the lawn mower exchange and ozone. • Levine: It is totally free? • Moran: Yes. • Moran (Re: Questions about what people think their neighbor/other citizens would do): Some of the research shows that people speak about themselves through their neighbors. Instead of admitting that they are not willing to make these changes, they will say that their neighbors are probably not willing. That sometimes can tell whether people truly are willing to make changes, although it is not consistent. • York: I observe this board and the rational in some of our discussions in the past about whether college kids would be willing. to maintain their car - we seem to me to be a little bit cynical; our own board feels that way, do you know what I'm talking about? • Smith: I think so. The board has discussed that in the past. Are you saying that you'd like to see a little bit more detailed demographics about the people who respond that Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 6 of 16 "yes they feel an obligation to help air quality"? We could look at the demographics. It's such a majority though... • York: Actually what I was saying is, the way our board has spoken in previous meetings about people willing to do "this, that or the other thing", seemed a little bit more disparaging and a little bit more tied to the economics. • Smith: I see exactly what you mean. • York: That's my only comment. I don't know that they are speaking for themselves. I don't know if I believe that study. • Bowman: You mean, as adults we are speaking from an economic -centric view point? • York: Well, only Ken, myself, Liz and Lucinda were here — we mainly talked about emissions tests for University students and willingness to do certain things. People say "they don't give a care..." • Smith: And that was the feedback we got from the focus groups too. Economic considerations were the largest driver in decisions. I think what you are saying is, this paints a better picture. That there are more people trying to help air quality just for the sake of it than we might of thought — at least based on these results. • Bowman: I think one thing with what Nancy is saying is we live in a community with and incredibly high median income; the median income is $60,000 per year. The disparity between the "haves" and the "have-nots" is a pretty wide gap, at least from data that I have looked at. There is a general assumption that college students, being in their financial condition, might not be able to keep up with their vehicle maintenance as much. Is that kind of what you are getting at? • York: I think that is broader and I used the example of University students, but I think you had a wider application. I'm pleased with this. The last air quality survey also, the willingness of people to do stuff was very high. Previously they were willing to change their mode of transportation. I was quite shocked that this survey, some said they would never ride the bus! • Smith: We'll talk about that more when we get to that. The question was worded differently and I think that makes a difference. • Dietrich: Is the wording on this particular question the same as it was in the previous year's? • Smith: The question was worded the same. I will have to look back, but I think most of the statements were worded the same too. We sometimes make some adjustments and add or take statements out, but we don't change the statements. • Dietrich: It's interesting; the first time I read that, "I feel a personal obligation to help improve..." isn't the same as "I make small changes..." • Moran: Lucinda, did the last survey mention transportation? I feel like it also talked about small changes... • Smith: I have it here. • Dietrich: I think some people respond to that question "yeah, I feel obligated, but no I don't do it..." as opposed to the direct question. • Moore: That's what we found out when they did the mandatory chlorofluorocarbon equipment within City limits. We had to buy specific equipment in order to be able to recover Freon. We found that we needed to increase prices to try to help pay for the equipment that we had to buy that we weren't ready to buy yet, and we found a lot of Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 7 of 16 air conditioning work was going outside the City limit. That says, "Yes, we want clean air in Fort Collins, but I'm not willing to pay for it". • Bowman: You mean automotive -wise? • Moore: Yes. • Bowman: Really, wow. • Levine: One of the historic problems we tried to fix for air quality regarding CSU students is that a lot are from out of state. After one year you qualify for all of the in- state benefits. They may purchase their vehicles out of state, they may not have emission inspection on those vehicles, they come here and you are supposed to but you can beat that various ways. We looked at getting CSU to make it mandatory to show proof that your vehicle is inspected before you registered at CSU for parking. They were not cooperative to go that far. • Bowman: I can imagine that, with the number of vehicles that they have to deal with. • Smith: Dave, I looked at the wording in past survey and it is worded exactly the same; although we did add the second bullet, "I know what small changes I can make". We didn't have that before. • Dietrich: The only point I was making is that we never do ask the direct question, "do you make the changes".' • Smith: OK, that's a good suggestion. • York: Something else I find interesting throughout this is the "don't know" column. We can learn from that. • Smith: I know there was one question that had 50% response "don't know"; I asked Cheryl "does that make that a bad question?" If 50% can't answer the question, is it useful asking it, I guess. • Bowman: My question is, in the analysis of this survey, I know that research has been done on it — when you get a survey and responders just mark down one column — was there any statistical correction done for that kind of behavior? • Smith: This is just raw data. • Bowman: I know there has to be correction factors for people who just mark things down the column. • Smith: I don't know if she has done that type of correction in the past. I will ask her. • Bowman: The only reason 1 ask is because when you have questions that are worded like this (Strongly Agree to Don't Know, or a 0-10 scale), it is really common behavior, sociologically for a lot of the population. • Moran: I don't know what Cheryl did, but I know a lot of researchers do that so you don't have that affect. They word the questions so they have to read and say "oh, this is a not". • Bowman (Request from citizens to improve traffic lighting): I think a lot of people don't know how it works, and the only reason I know is because I asked the people in Traffic Operations. Depending on what direction you are heading, whether it is morning or evening, the timing is different. • Levine: In the mid-90s, there was a large transportation package defeated by the voters. I think it is the largest plan, historically. They had an update of traffic signals in that package. At that time they had 286-class IBM computers to coordinate all of those. They claimed that only if the package were passed would they have the funds to upgrade that system. It was defeated and they have kept their word for many years by Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 8 of 16 not upgrading it. The timing of the lights was almost nil; it would be off every couple of hours and City staff would try to correct it. • York (Re: prohibit wood burning): I thought it got a good response • Smith: That is in line with the last survey where we did special segment on wood smoke. This question precisely was not asked, but we did ask a question about "should we have a voluntary no burn program on high pollution days" and that one was also rated the highest. You, the board, will talk about wood smoke emissions and programs to address it perhaps at your next meeting. • York: We've also talked about Red and Blue days, which we haven't acted too much on. The Coloradoan is no help. They don't record particulates most of the time. • Smith: I think a lot of people believe we are under same pollution advisories that Denver is and believe that the wood smoke restrictions are in place. We've never asked that question. I don't think we want to draw attention to the fact that we are not, but it is something we should explore further. There is a lot to this issue. Would we be talking about Denver's high pollution days or Fort Collins', etc. • York: An interesting question might be, if there is a high pollution day - do you stop driving your car, do you not grill? I have the feeling people don't... I'm curious to see if anybody pays attention to them. • Smith: That might be another possible question for a future survey, depending on whether or not we change anything between now and the next survey. That is an interesting question: What are peoples' responses to the Denver air quality advisory days? • York (Re: perceived effects of air pollution): The "I don't know" category for the long term respiration problems — that indicates to me that there needs to be more education. • Smith: I see - one way to use the "don't know" columns is to point out where education is needed. Good point. • Bowman (Re: will anything be done to improve air quality): I think that disparity could largely be attributed to the perception that the government won't do what they say they will do in general; even at the City level. There is a general cynicism about government. • Smith: Do you think it is important to dispel that? Or do you think it is more important to continue to raise awareness about air quality and its impacts and to seek changes? They are different approaches, one being to raise awareness about what is being done and what can be done and the other just saying this is what the situation is with air pollution, you can help it and here's what you can do. • York: There could be more public information going out. Because there is a lot going on and I read the paper and I don't see a lot from the City. Maybe that is not the City's fault. • Smith: We did meet today with the new environment and health reporter of the Coloradoan. Just meeting them and telling them about the programs might get us some stories. We do try; we send press releases and sometimes call but sometimes they don't always pick it up. • Dietrich: For example, on the Lawn mower buy back program, I think I read something about the total pounds saved. • Smith: Yes. That was in the NRD highlights memo. • Dietrich: Maybe this indicates that the City should "toot your own horn". Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 9 of 16 • Moran: For the Lawn mower program, we got good press on that. We had two specific articles in the Coloradoan on that. Part of the reason is that Lucinda could quantify what that benefit was. • Dietrich: The public should be kept informed about the City's use of bio-diesel, alternative fuels, etc. • Levine: I'm concerned about something on page 11. First of all, the heading is a typo. Obviously, what my concern is, from one to four, that the perceived adverse affects of air quality had gone down significantly. The others are within 7 percentage points; this is a 50% drop. Why do any of these things if not for health? • Smith: You're right, it is a significant change. Generally, I think it is good that people don't perceive that they are affected, although the number of households with a member with respiratory ailment has stayed around 30% for the last 8 years. There are some inconsistencies here. I don't know what to make of this particular question. • Levine: Are people taking personally or they don't know what air pollution does to some other subsets of the population? Are they looking at this personally, I'm thinking? • Smith: They are, because the question is "air pollution affects me". • Levine: Right. • Dietrich (Re: Railroad question): When was the first survey? • Smith: It was in December of 2003. It was technically in the winter. • Dietrich: I would say the response to turning off your car is more related to gasoline prices rather than air quality. • York: I was going to say that too. • Smith: I never thought of that. I'm sure you are right. Good point. • Levine: Is there an idling question— how long I warn up my car? That should track the same I would think if it's true with the gas prices? • Smith: It does, sort of. It is question 15. 80% do not warm up their car for more than 2 minutes. • York (Re: Wood smoke): How about the certification? Have we asked that question? • Smith: Yes we have, and that is probably the least reliable response in this whole survey. People don't actually go look for the tag even though the survey said you could check the back of your stove. I wouldn't put much faith in that question at all and maybe we shouldn't ask it. • York: And again, natural gas prices have gone up. • Bowman (Re: Radon questions): When you buy a home, you get a big packet of stuff. Some may have received the brochure and not know it. • York: I also noticed 39% don't feel wood smoke is a concern. • Smith: To me that's not surprising because it is a neighborhood -scale issue. There are some neighborhoods where there are very few wood -burning devices. Others may have a lot. • Bowman: Another thing that is interesting with this question is that it says, "Please rate your concern for the pollutants". As soon as you tell somebody that something is a pollutant that can automatically put i bad impression in their mind; "Oh, it is a pollutant, it must be harmful". • Smith: Oh, that's a good point. We could come up with a more neutral word. Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 10 of 16 • Bowman: I've experienced the same thing; people think radiation is a bad thing. They don't realize we get irradiated every day whether we like it or not from natural sources. • Dietrich: A general comment: throughout the survey, do you think people know what greenhouse gases are? • Smith: There was no definition of greenhouse gases in the survey. That is a concern Eric has raised several times: "are we getting informed opinions, or just opinions?" And we are really just getting peoples' opinions in this survey. • Bowman: We do live in a very educated community. • Smith: And actually the survey respondents were slightly more educated than the general population of Fort Collins. They're also more middle-aged too. • Smith: Are there any other comments, questions or suggestions? • Dietrich: In the survey sample discussion in the front, there should be some discussion about the demographics (either there or in the back) and how they relate to the City's population as a whole. Also, there is nothing in this equation that says how the sample size is relative to the size of the City. A sample size, whether local or national is usually always 1500. It would be interesting to say, "We got a response from "so many" people and that is "this percent" of the population of Fort Collins, but the demographics show that it was a good sample based on the "this, this and this"". Some discussion on that for the laymen would be important. I have some more editorial stuff; I will talk with you later. • Smith: I welcome your feedback. This is exactly the kind of feedback we can give to the consultant. Could I catch up with you later? Do you want to share with the group now? • Dietrich: Well it depends. Somebody is working with the consultant on this and I'm sure they are catching much of it. • Levine: We have a little bit of time. • York: The one thing that I noticed is it said something about four zip codes and there were five. • Dietrich: I think you definitely need an executive summary. • Smith: Right. There will be. • Dietrich: And in that, I would imagine that you would move some of this discussion that is now back with each thing. • Smith: Such as? • Dietrich: Like on page 9, this whole discussion at the top is poorly written to say the least. The discussions that occur before each of these probably aren't necessary because all of the statistics are right there. You will go over consistency on graphics and such; I know this is a rough draft. • Smith: It is. And we really pushed hard to get it to you before the meeting. It is really rough and the consultant was the first one to acknowledge that. That's why we haven't shared it with Council. We just have the results now, really. • Bowman: Will we have the opportunity to review a final draft before it is published? • Smith: I don't think so, unless you feel that it is really important. I could send you the rough draft for your input. But as I said before, there is limit to how much we can ask of the consultant. That's why I was hoping to get input now. The contract is really with the City and the consultant so it is up to us to make sure that we get a good final product. Unless you have an objection, I would like to just go ahead and work with Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 11 of 16 them to finalize it. In the next couple of weeks, if you have additional ideas you can email them to me. • Levine: Will this be posted on the website? • Smith: When it's ready, yes. • Levine: I understand that just for the historical trends, a lot of these questions need to be same or similar. But I would love to have — maybe not even in this survey — a way of gauging the general level of knowledge that people have on some of these issues. • Smith: Last time, or perhaps two surveys ago, the board talked about doing split survey. We would have one like this and then the other 50% would have an explanation paragraph. We talked with Cheryl and with the board about that and didn't follow through because the consultant advised that it was too much reading for the public. But you are still saying you'd like to know how informed they are, right? • Levine: I think it's important for some of these issues. If the City has certain goals and it has certain educational campaigns to further those goals and affect behavior, I think that's an important piece. • Dietrich: So would you add a few more questions to focus in on that? • Levine: I was always thinking in terms of putting it in the survey itself, but there may be other ways to gauge that outside of the survey. I haven't really thought very carefully about it, but I would suspect it is possible. It doesn't seem to be getting in the survey and I've brought this up for a number of years. • Dietrich: Would you add a question about how well informed they think they are? Would you ask questions like that at the end? • Levine: No. I would go to... I haven't thought about this a lot. I would have questions in there so you could gauge the level of actual knowledge. It would be a way of wording the question so that you would know. • Bowman: Test questions? • Levine: Yes, without being obvious about it. • Smith: It would be possible to include some test questions. I think we probably can't solve it now, but I understand what you are looking for. We will (assuming we have the budget) be doing another survey in two years. I like the idea of the split survey. I honestly can't remember the details of the consultant's advice as to why that was not a good idea. • Moore: Probably because the percentage of respondents would go down. • Levine: We'll have to cut some out if we are going to add more. How long does this survey take? • Smith: We didn't ask that this year. We did ask that last year. • Levine: What are the stats on how much patience people have to answer good on surveys? • Dietrich: Does she do that in the surveys? Does she randomize the order of the questions? • Smith: I'll ask that question. I don't know that. I know that she has done statistical tests to compare the strength of certain answers. I've asked for that again in this survey. • Carrico: One clarification, on the question where you ask the seriousness of outdoor pollutants, were you intending just to mean wood smoke from wood -burning fireplaces or could that include outdoor uncontrolled wildfires? Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 12 of 16 • Smith: That's a really good point. We meant smoke from wood -burning fireplaces. • Dietrich: I was thinking the same thing, • Smith: We have not distinguished that, there is nothing in the survey that asks about forest fires. In the future we will do that. That is a great point. • Bowman: Depending on where people live within City, it will affect that kind of a response. Melissa Moran handed out a rough draft copy of the goals and objections for the school bus idling program and talked about the diesel outreach program for 2005. • York: Did New Hampshire save money through this program? • Moran: That was one of their objectives and something that helped sell the program to the Bus Drivers Associations. I will ask. I don't have the specific figures on any money saved. They did give the drivers a survey at the beginning of the program. One thing that surprised me was they idle a %z hour to an hour each day! Each bus does that! After a period of time they surveyed again and they measured the reduction. So it is all self -reported. • York: Did they do it seasonally? • Moran: They had just finished the first year of the program, so it was not seasonal. They started at the beginning of the school year. It is cold there though. • Bowman: I have a question for Ken: isn't it true that in most new cars, there is no warm-up requirement because of electronics? • Moore: Correct. • Bowman: As a public education campaign — I see a lot of people who warm up their cars. They probably don't realize that they don't need to. • Moran: That's a good point. I think that comes in the research stage. We need to figure out why are they doing that? Is it to keep the interior warm? • Levine: I could tell you that I was a former VW owner and anyone who did their own repairs had John Muir's book, which said that the greatest destroyer of engines is not warming up the car. I still remember that. • Moore: We used to encourage people to warm their cars up for a few minutes because the chokes were on and you give them the opportunity to come down off of a fast idle. But now -a -days as far as pollution goes, the cars go into closed loop almost instantly because they have heated Oz sensors and stuff. You don't have carburetors; the computer systems are smart enough to know you have cold enrichment but you can cut back on cold enrichment real fast. As far as warming up, new cars have much lighter oils, and the reason is to get oil faster to the parts moving. Yes, a majority of engine wear is on the first cranking over because you have some metal to metal connection. When they are running rich the oil doesn't stick as well. • Levine: So the technical reasons that may have existed in the past don't exist anymore? • Moran: What year did that happen? • Moore: Fuel injected started around 1987. I thought about the 50% of people who don't warm their car up — how many of those people have a garage? I fortunately have a garage. I know my sister has a new mustang and I see it idling. She does it to get the engine temperature up. It's just creature comfort. • Moran: One thing I was thinking about is we need to do a targeted approach. We should find neighborhoods with detached garages or no garages, where there may be an Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 13 of 16 increase in the likelihood of people warming up their cars. We should do focus groups with them. • Dietrich: Another point is to include trucks. They do have to warm up a bit, but not a''/3 hour. • Moore: Diesel is different than gasoline, but they don't need that much warming up. • Dietrich: A lot of guys will turn them on and go in and have breakfast. • Moran: When you say trucks, you mean diesel and regular? • Dietrich: Yes. • Bowman: What about big rigs? • Moore: The warmer the diesel is the more efficiently it burns the fuel. The reason you see a lot of big rigs idling is because they don't want to shut it down and start back up; those starters cost a lot of money and draw a lot of current. • Smith: Related to this, I'd like to ask the board members: do you feel there is a problem with idling delivery trucks? That could be another issue for an idling campaign. About 7 years ago we hired an intern to evaluate it and it was not enough of a problem to make a local ordinance. We were not planning on focusing on that. • Dietrich: I don't perceive it as a problem • Smith: OK I appreciate that feedback. • York: A good campaign about anti -idling might spill over to that. • Bowman: What about TransFort buses? • York: They are the problem. • Smith: We have an administrative policy that encourages reduced idling. That's about as specific as it is. • Moran: That was one thing that we talked about looking into, is making sure that we are on board with this. • Smith: We will do that. It's a whole variety of fleet vehicles that may or may not need to be idling. • Moran: So everybody is in favor of an idling campaign? It is a good use of time and resources? • York: When I ask myself what is the highest priority, it is reducing consumption of fossil fuels. This is a great place to start. It hits a lot of different issues: climate change, global warming, physical health, it impacts the economy... • Moore: Be the person that you are going to be aiming, and most people will say what is in it for me? You've got to emphasize the fact that it saves you money because you are using less fuel and it also helps keep the air clean. • Carrico: You could quote the number of cars that are stolen while idling. • Bowman: People have no problem spending $40,000 on an SUV and then complain about gas prices. That is a perfect thing to play into. • York: The school bus is a really good... • Dietrich: I like that too. • York: Poudre School district has done energy reduction to a fine art. It would be interesting to find out what kind of fuel savings there were in New Hampshire. • Levine: Obviously the cost is public .Taxpayer dollars with school buses idling; it is diesel being another order of pollutants generally compared to non -diesel's. Everyone's kids and neighbors kids are on those buses. • York: There could be a health education component to the school buses and the kids. Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 14 of 16 • Smith: That was one of the values that they got out of the program in New Hampshire. • Dietrich: Are all school buses diesel? • Moran: Yes. • York: Are they moving to biodiesel? • Smith: They are interested. • Bowman: What about Dial -a -Ride? • Smith: Most are CNG. • Levine: The bus fleet used to be about 25 full size buses and those are all diesel. • Smith: TransFort is getting a CNG fueling station and will be running a hythane mix. They have ordered that bus, but it is not here yet. • Bowman: The school bus is excellent because people see that — it is a visible component. But also throw in other diesel powered vehicles; Fire engines consume a lot of fuel too. • Levine: I am assuming the number of school buses is much more than anything else? • Smith: I will look that up. • Bowman: In terms of public visibility, people see that and it carries a message to everybody else. • Dietrich: An important part of this campaign is the City taking lead. • Moore: Can I ask, what were the health hazards that the children were exposed to? • Moran: I don't have that, I have the research but I haven't read all through it. • Smith: I'm sure it included fine particles, NOx, emissions... • Moore: Yes, I'm sure of that. Rocks, SOx and NOx are the emissions. • Smith: Rocks? • Moore: Particulates. • Smith: Oh, rocks! OK. • Moran: This study was conducted in 2002, so it is relatively recent. It is available online at www.ehhi.org. This is from the Yale researchers that took a look at children's exposure to diesel exhaust. • Moran: Should we be partnering with a for -profit to do an incentive program? • York: There was just this competition to win a Prius. The campaign was to get other car makers to have reduced emission vehicles. • Moran: Was this local? • York: No. • Levine: You put in a call to Poudre School District and haven't heard back? • Moran: Right and in the interim I've been trying to collect some data. • Levine: I would suggest that you would need the entire sales pitch for the outreach program prior to calling. • Smith: We have talked about that. PSD is a ClimateWise partner. • Moore: It might just be a changing of procedure. • Smith: It's great PR for them too. • York: It might be just idling, so you do school busses and railroad billboards, but if enough information gets out it will spill over. Maybe later in the campaign you can pick up the domestic idling. • Smith: Prioritize, yes. Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 15 of 16 • Carrico: There is green diesel technology that International Trucks is developing; it is a diesel particulate filter that they can retrofit the system to existing diesel. • Moore: Is it a trap? • Carrico: Yes, it is a catalyzed particulate trap. • Levine: The City had particulate traps in TransFort buses and said they didn't work and scrapped the idea. • Carrico: This is something that will require the low -sulfur diesel. This is new technology. • York: Another thought is that in addition to local media, you should send press releases to Denver papers. • Bowman: There are more people that subscribe to the Post than the Coloradoan. • Dietrich: On the school thing with parent idling — you should definitely think about bringing the kids into it. You could have them make posters and do contests. • Smith: That is a great idea. • Bowman: PSD has some kind of thing they send home with kids every semester, if you had something in that — parents read it. • Smith: We've heard that it is very hard to get into that packet. But if PSD was in support of this campaign then they would put it in there. Public Health Advisory Board This topic has been postponed till the March meeting Inspection/Maintenance Update At the last hearing the Air Quality Control Commission decided to extend the program by one year, and also agreed to form a transition committee. • Levine: To clarify, CDPHE is not able to do any grant funding? • Smith: They do have community based air quality grants; we could apply to the smaller, $20,000 one. Levine: What kind of costs are there for a high emitter program? Smith: We did get a rough cost estimate from ESP. Their estimate was high: $600,000 per year. The area of program was just Fort Collins. Frankly, the cost does not need to be that high. We do not have a good cost estimate. Update • Smith: In your packet, you received the 2004 NRD highlights. If you have comments, certainly let me know. John would happy to talk to you if you would like. • York: In reading this I had a suggestion about using consulting fines — if we were to use CSU as consultants that will help train them and give them sustaining income. • Smith: I do know in this case the consultant was selected because of their international reputation regarding waste stream analysis. Susie felt it was important to have experts doing this. That is a great point though; there are a lot of great resources at CSU. • York: I personally am not crazy about single stream recycling. • Smith: Susie made a presentation to our Department and it showed that nationally, single stream can increase recycling rates 20-40%. It does lower the value of the recycle product, but overall there is a net benefit. It's happening anyway, the County has made that decision. Air Quality Advisory Board 02/22/05 Page 16 of 16 Smith: I want to make a small announcement for AQAB attendance — everyone please sign in on the sign up sheet. I Smith: You probably all got an invitation to this public open house for plans for the airport — that is coming up next Monday. Smith: There is a Board and Commissions Training; it's generally most useful if you haven't been before. The RSVP deadline has passed, but you could probably still get in. Agenda Planning • Smith: I handed out a memo to you from Darin Attebery and he is asking for input from all the boards prior to the development of the next biennial budget — this must be on the next agenda to get it in on time. We could look at the comments the board submitted last time. The input would go to me and I would send it to the Budget Office, so it is not a recommendation to Council • ClimateWise • Budget • Wood smoke or high emitter • Two things on 6 month Council agenda: o BOB capital improvement program o EVSAG update — link there is green building and air quality potential Meeting adjourned 7.56 PM Submitted by Liz Skelton Administrative Secretary I k�j +KQ. boo,-vcC � O�